Halo 4 Matchmaking destroyed

In Halo 3, Reach, and 4 I have played Halo matchmaking. Halo 4, like Halo Reach has been ruined for me by 343. Halo Reach is still playable though considering game mechanics were slightly modified by 343’s Halo Reach TU. Reduced Bloom, Heavies, and reduced developer maps was what ruined reach.
In Halo 4 the matchmaking is completely destroyed considering community maps in every playlist possible now and with the new TU for 4 all weapons have caused a change in the whole game mechanics. It isn’t a little change, a huge change to adapt to.

My first point is that the BR can now beat the DMR which shouldn’t be possible considering the realism of the weapon. 1 DMR shot= 1 3 shot BR burst. Now this has changed. With the Strength of the BR you can beat the DMR every time and the ratio makes no sense at all. DMR should be the best weapon, not because of its range or favoritism by the community, but because a 1 shot weapon in real life can always beat a 3 shot weapon.

My 2nd point is that The Light Rifle and Carbine being buffed is ridiculous. THe LR was supposed to be 4 shots with slowed ROF but no 343 makes it a power weapon to kill the DMR BR and Carbine at long Range/Medium Range. The Carbine could easily kill someone with skill. I remember practicing with the weapon and killing BR and DMR users all the time because it takes skill to use it.

My last point is the community Maps. Make community maps its own playlist and not ruin the vanilla settings or maps the developer made. A developer makes a game and maps for the players and settings for the players, not for everyone to whine and complain to change every playlist in the game. If community maps are in the game put them in their own playlist, like a custom game finder for people to play making a random host choose their map to play. People I know just don’t want to play user-made maps over the developer maps because the Replay Value of the game just goes down.

Overall, A game should be left the way it is made with minor changes to gliches, exploits, etc. Why do you think developers went to college? To MAKE VIDEO GAMES!!! If the community really would want to take part of a game, just make suggestions for future games, not current game mechanics. If a game is left the way it is WITHOUT changing game mechanics, weapons, community maps, etc. the game would always be fun to play. If people get bored with the game, then they should go back to a former game or play a different game simple as that. I’m tired of looking at the forums over the past year and seeing everyone cry and whine over the BR and DMR powers!!! It is stupid to complain over something that isn’t broken just because you think it is. Halo 4 is ruined, until they can change it back to the way it was before community maps and the TU.

> In Halo 3, Reach, and 4 I have played Halo matchmaking. Halo 4, like Halo Reach has been ruined for me by 343. Halo Reach is still playable though considering game mechanics were slightly modified by 343’s Halo Reach TU. Reduced Bloom, Heavies, and reduced developer maps was what ruined reach.
> In Halo 4 the matchmaking is completely destroyed considering community maps in every playlist possible now and with the new TU for 4 all weapons have caused a change in the whole game mechanics. It isn’t a little change, a huge change to adapt to.

The Game of Halo 4 was a huge change to adapt to. Now they’re making it balanced, it’s not that big a deal. Just learn how to use the new weapons.

> My first point is that the BR can now beat the DMR which shouldn’t be possible considering the realism of the weapon. 1 DMR shot= 1 3 shot BR burst. Now this has changed. With the Strength of the BR you can beat the DMR every time and the ratio makes no sense at all. DMR should be the best weapon, not because of its range or favoritism by the community, but because a 1 shot weapon in real life can always beat a 3 shot weapon.

Alright, now see here’s a problem. You do know WHY the DMR was changed right? Do you understand the importance of having a balanced weapon sandbox so that all weapons are useable?

As for the “1 shot is better than burst fire” statistic that’s entirely horse crap. The M16 model can fire Automatic, Semi automatic or Burst Fire. The different fire modes do not affect the damage output or range of the weapon.

The only thing that changes is the accuracy and the rate of fire.

DMR has a faster fire rate and is more accurate than the BR, so theoretically speaking they got it accurate.

> My 2nd point is that The Light Rifle and Carbine being buffed is ridiculous. THe LR was supposed to be 4 shots with slowed ROF but no 343 makes it a power weapon to kill the DMR BR and Carbine at long Range/Medium Range. The Carbine could easily kill someone with skill. I remember practicing with the weapon and killing BR and DMR users all the time because it takes skill to use it.

The Light Rifle buff was unneeded, I’ll agree to that. The Carbine killed statistically slower than the DMR before the update, and had it not been changed would have killed slower than both the DMR and the BR after the update which would not have been balanced.

Arguing that it “took skill” to kill with the weapon when it would have been statistically inferior to the other two counterparts is absurd.

> My last point is the community Maps. Make community maps its own playlist and not ruin the vanilla settings or maps the developer made. A developer makes a game and maps for the players and settings for the players, not for everyone to whine and complain to change every playlist in the game. If community maps are in the game put them in their own playlist, like a custom game finder for people to play making a random host choose their map to play. People I know just don’t want to play user-made maps over the developer maps because the Replay Value of the game just goes down.

Can you quantifiably prove that the userbase prefers dev maps over community maps? Just because you dislike the community maps doesn’t mean everyone does.

I myself quite enjoy them, and while they lack aesthetics that’s no fault of theirs, as more it’s a fault of forges incredibly lacking aesthetic options. I prefer Community maps to dev maps for the simple reason that most of them play better.

For example, I’d play simplex over Abandon, Adrift or Complex any day of the weak, as none of those maps are properly designed or balanced in my opinion.

Opus, Simplex, Eden, Ender and whichever one is a narrows re-imagining play arguably better overall than any of the previously listed maps.

Now, there’s the problem of splitscreen framerate that needs to be addressed, I’ll agree. But again, that’s not the forger’s fault as opposed to 343i’s lack of foresight and testing in that field.

O

> verall, A game should be left the way it is made with minor changes to gliches, exploits, etc. Why do you think developers went to college? To MAKE VIDEO GAMES!!! If the community really would want to take part of a game, just make suggestions for future games, not current game mechanics. If a game is left the way it is WITHOUT changing game mechanics, weapons, community maps, etc. the game would always be fun to play. If people get bored with the game, then they should go back to a former game or play a different game simple as that. I’m tired of looking at the forums over the past year and seeing everyone cry and whine over the BR and DMR powers!!! <mark>It is stupid to complain over something that isn’t broken just because you think it is.</mark> Halo 4 is ruined, until they can change it back to the way it was before community maps and the TU.

I’m sorry, but on launch the game was horrifically broken. These title updates have been fixing the game as they went along, and while 343i have continued to fix and introduce new problems every time the overall balance of the game has improved since launch and has become far more playable.

As for the highlighted, I can quantifiably prove that the DMR was statistically overpowered. 343i also did explicit testing to come to their own conclusion as well, and if they hadn’t come to the conclusion that the DMR was overpowered as well then they likely wouldn’t have changed it.

I know change is a hard thing, but this change is arguably for the better.

> > In Halo 3, Reach, and 4 I have played Halo matchmaking. Halo 4, like Halo Reach has been ruined for me by 343. Halo Reach is still playable though considering game mechanics were slightly modified by 343’s Halo Reach TU. Reduced Bloom, Heavies, and reduced developer maps was what ruined reach.
> > In Halo 4 the matchmaking is completely destroyed considering community maps in every playlist possible now and with the new TU for 4 all weapons have caused a change in the whole game mechanics. It isn’t a little change, a huge change to adapt to.
>
> The Game of Halo 4 was a huge change to adapt to. Now they’re making it balanced, it’s not that big a deal. Just learn how to use the new weapons.
>
>
>
> > My first point is that the BR can now beat the DMR which shouldn’t be possible considering the realism of the weapon. 1 DMR shot= 1 3 shot BR burst. Now this has changed. With the Strength of the BR you can beat the DMR every time and the ratio makes no sense at all. DMR should be the best weapon, not because of its range or favoritism by the community, but because a 1 shot weapon in real life can always beat a 3 shot weapon.
>
> Alright, now see here’s a problem. You do know WHY the DMR was changed right? Do you understand the importance of having a balanced weapon sandbox so that all weapons are useable?
>
> As for the “1 shot is better than burst fire” statistic that’s entirely horse crap. The M16 model can fire Automatic, Semi automatic or Burst Fire. The different fire modes do not affect the damage output or range of the weapon.
>
> The only thing that changes is the accuracy and the rate of fire.
>
> DMR has a faster fire rate and is more accurate than the BR, so theoretically speaking they got it accurate.
>
>
>
> > My 2nd point is that The Light Rifle and Carbine being buffed is ridiculous. THe LR was supposed to be 4 shots with slowed ROF but no 343 makes it a power weapon to kill the DMR BR and Carbine at long Range/Medium Range. The Carbine could easily kill someone with skill. I remember practicing with the weapon and killing BR and DMR users all the time because it takes skill to use it.
>
> The Light Rifle buff was unneeded, I’ll agree to that. The Carbine killed statistically slower than the DMR before the update, and had it not been changed would have killed slower than both the DMR and the BR after the update which would not have been balanced.
>
> Arguing that it “took skill” to kill with the weapon when it would have been statistically inferior to the other two counterparts is absurd.
>
>
>
> > My last point is the community Maps. Make community maps its own playlist and not ruin the vanilla settings or maps the developer made. A developer makes a game and maps for the players and settings for the players, not for everyone to whine and complain to change every playlist in the game. If community maps are in the game put them in their own playlist, like a custom game finder for people to play making a random host choose their map to play. People I know just don’t want to play user-made maps over the developer maps because the Replay Value of the game just goes down.
>
> Can you quantifiably prove that the userbase prefers dev maps over community maps? Just because you dislike the community maps doesn’t mean everyone does.
>
> I myself quite enjoy them, and while they lack aesthetics that’s no fault of theirs, as more it’s a fault of forges incredibly lacking aesthetic options. I prefer Community maps to dev maps for the simple reason that most of them play better.
>
> For example, I’d play simplex over Abandon, Adrift or Complex any day of the weak, as none of those maps are properly designed or balanced in my opinion.
>
> Opus, Simplex, Eden, Ender and whichever one is a narrows re-imagining play arguably better overall than any of the previously listed maps.
>
> Now, there’s the problem of splitscreen framerate that needs to be addressed, I’ll agree. But again, that’s not the forger’s fault as opposed to 343i’s lack of foresight and testing in that field.
>
> O
>
> > verall, A game should be left the way it is made with minor changes to gliches, exploits, etc. Why do you think developers went to college? To MAKE VIDEO GAMES!!! If the community really would want to take part of a game, just make suggestions for future games, not current game mechanics. If a game is left the way it is WITHOUT changing game mechanics, weapons, community maps, etc. the game would always be fun to play. If people get bored with the game, then they should go back to a former game or play a different game simple as that. I’m tired of looking at the forums over the past year and seeing everyone cry and whine over the BR and DMR powers!!! <mark>It is stupid to complain over something that isn’t broken just because you think it is.</mark> Halo 4 is ruined, until they can change it back to the way it was before community maps and the TU.
>
> I’m sorry, but on launch the game was horrifically broken. These title updates have been fixing the game as they went along, and while 343i have continued to fix and introduce new problems every time the overall balance of the game has improved since launch and has become far more playable.
>
> As for the highlighted, I can quantifiably prove that the DMR was statistically overpowered. 343i also did explicit testing to come to their own conclusion as well, and if they hadn’t come to the conclusion that the DMR was overpowered as well then they likely wouldn’t have changed it.
>
> I know change is a hard thing, but this change is arguably for the better.

For ONE, a game being “Broken” by community standards is completely wrong and absurd. When someone from the community tells a developer that the game is “broken” and needs to be “fixed” they really should not have a major voice except for the next game that comes out. Just like as a student you can suggest something for a professor or teacher but you can’t change the curriculum for the teacher until he takes changes for the next year’s class.

SECONDLY, The M12 is a much more accurate weapon than the M16 in real life as stated in this video along with more power. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT6iyKjRIqc Therefore, I see no reason why DMR should be worse than BR. I was surprised in game launch how the BR was equal to DMR, but the DMR won more? WHy? Because the DMR is simply more accurate.

THIRDLY,

The Carbine and Light Rifle shouldn’t have been messed with because they were balanced. In Halo 3 the Carbine had a quicker Killtime than the BR. Therefore if any changes should have been made it should have made the Carbine one shot better to beat the BR.

LASTLY,

I never said I hate community maps. I provided a solution by making its own playlist. Why I believe that the matchmaking team put it in with developer maps is because they are afraid that people just simply won’t play them, which is very true. Developer maps are made for multiplayer competitively and community maps are made for fun. The community is not given the tools developers have to make maps because they aren’t professionals like the developers. It is just casual deveopment like all the people who make videos and machinimas of video games.

-“If you want to know something. Just ask, don’t assume.”
-Rowee

@SilentA98 just because you like the BR doesn’t mean the BR is better.

Stopped reading the OP after he mentioned realism between DMR and BR. Its Halo, where everyone is a giant, two ton, genetically modified super soldier with ships that can generate terrain and go faster than light. Sorry realism has nothing to do with Halo. Also adapting wasn’t that hard. The weapons kill people faster, it isn’t really that mind blowing after a couple games…

> For ONE, a game being “Broken” by community standards is completely wrong and absurd. When someone from the community tells a developer that the game is “broken” and needs to be “fixed” they really should not have a major voice except for the next game that comes out. Just like as a student you can suggest something for a professor or teacher but you can’t change the curriculum for the teacher until he takes changes for the next year’s class.

Did I ever say I could change anything? I don’t recall saying anything other than the game was broken. It’s not like I walked into their head office and forced them to change anything.

If they thought it shouldn’t be changed and that it was absurd the community wanted it changed, then they probably wouldn’t have changed it. For example in game ranks have yet to be added.

Video games aren’t school work. Unlike a school curriculum things can and should be changed if something is unbalanced or detracts from the overall feeling of the game. If not, there should be gametypes added so that the portion of the community that does not like them can avoid them.

> SECONDLY, The M12 is a much more accurate weapon than the M16 in real life as stated in this video along with more power. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT6iyKjRIqc Therefore, I see no reason why DMR should be worse than BR. I was surprised in game launch how the BR was equal to DMR, but the DMR won more? WHy? Because the DMR is simply more accurate.

The BR wasn’t equal to the DMR. In fact it had a significantly slower killtime than the DMR.

A video game also isn’t real life. A game can and should be balanced between it’s loadout weapons so that everything is useable in their own range. Making the DMR dominant at all ranges “May” be accurate in the real world (In reality, what is the chance we could compete with aliens thousands of years technologically more advanced than ourselves?) but for a video game the weapons should be balanced.

If you wanted a realistic game, Halo should hardly be your first choice.

> THIRDLY,
>
> The Carbine and Light Rifle shouldn’t have been messed with because they were balanced. In Halo 3 the Carbine had a quicker Killtime than the BR. Therefore if any changes should have been made it should have made the Carbine one shot better to beat the BR.

That’s exactly what was done to the carbine, and in fact the carbine could beat the BR before the update too.

> LASTLY,
>
> I never said I hate community maps. I provided a solution by making its own playlist. Why I believe that the matchmaking team put it in with developer maps is because they are afraid that people just simply won’t play them, which is very true. <mark>Developer maps are made for multiplayer competitively and community maps are made for fun. The community is not given the tools developers have to make maps because they aren’t professionals like the developers. It is just casual deveopment like all the people who make videos and machinimas of video games.</mark>

No. I’m sorry, but no.

I’m not even sure how to reply to this, because honestly this is farther from the truth than anything I’ve ever read on this website.

The community maps aren’t competitive? Are you sure? How about the fact that the MLG maps of Halo 3 were community made? How about the fact that the MLG maps of Reach and even most of the Team Slayer maps of reach were community made? Care to explain why 90% of forger I know make their maps with competitive gameplay in mind?

Honestly sir/madam I just don’t know how to reply to this. Can you honestly say that Abandon is a balanced competitive map? Can you say that Complex was designed with Competition in mind?

Explain why Ender is a balanced competitive symmetrical map. Or how about simplex? They weren’t made by professionals, and yet they are better competition maps than those made by the professionals.

Are the community professionals? No, but then why stifle their creativity? Did valve stifle the communities creativity with their Hammer editor? No, in fact when the top community maps made by THE COMMUNITY were chosen to be online choices in Counter Strike GO there were payment rewards for the map makers.

Just because the community aren’t professionals doesn’t mean they are incapable.

Just because the community didn’t design the game doesn’t the mean they do not understand or try to understand the balance of the game.

> @SilentA98 just because you like the BR doesn’t mean the BR is better.

When did I say the BR was better? I didn’t give any personal opinions on the guns.
If I did, it’d be that I like the Carbine. I’m not even a huge BR fan. That doesn’t mean I don’t want it balanced with the rest of the sandbox, which is wasn’t prior to the update.

> > For ONE, a game being “Broken” by community standards is completely wrong and absurd. When someone from the community tells a developer that the game is “broken” and needs to be “fixed” they really should not have a major voice except for the next game that comes out. Just like as a student you can suggest something for a professor or teacher but you can’t change the curriculum for the teacher until he takes changes for the next year’s class.
>
> Did I ever say I could change anything? I don’t recall saying anything other than the game was broken. It’s not like I walked into their head office and forced them to change anything.
>
> If they thought it shouldn’t be changed and that it was absurd the community wanted it changed, then they probably wouldn’t have changed it. For example in game ranks have yet to be added.
>
> Video games aren’t school work. Unlike a school curriculum things can and should be changed if something is unbalanced or detracts from the overall feeling of the game. If not, there should be gametypes added so that the portion of the community that does not like them can avoid them.
>
>
>
> > SECONDLY, The M12 is a much more accurate weapon than the M16 in real life as stated in this video along with more power. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT6iyKjRIqc Therefore, I see no reason why DMR should be worse than BR. I was surprised in game launch how the BR was equal to DMR, but the DMR won more? WHy? Because the DMR is simply more accurate.
>
> The BR wasn’t equal to the DMR. In fact it had a significantly slower killtime than the DMR.
>
> A video game also isn’t real life. A game can and should be balanced between it’s loadout weapons so that everything is useable in their own range. Making the DMR dominant at all ranges “May” be accurate in the real world (In reality, what is the chance we could compete with aliens thousands of years technologically more advanced than ourselves?) but for a video game the weapons should be balanced.
>
> If you wanted a realistic game, Halo should hardly be your first choice.
>
>
>
> > THIRDLY,
> >
> > The Carbine and Light Rifle shouldn’t have been messed with because they were balanced. In Halo 3 the Carbine had a quicker Killtime than the BR. Therefore if any changes should have been made it should have made the Carbine one shot better to beat the BR.
>
> That’s exactly what was done to the carbine, and in fact the carbine could beat the BR before the update too.
>
>
>
> > LASTLY,
> >
> > I never said I hate community maps. I provided a solution by making its own playlist. Why I believe that the matchmaking team put it in with developer maps is because they are afraid that people just simply won’t play them, which is very true. <mark>Developer maps are made for multiplayer competitively and community maps are made for fun. The community is not given the tools developers have to make maps because they aren’t professionals like the developers. It is just casual deveopment like all the people who make videos and machinimas of video games.</mark>
>
> No. I’m sorry, but no.
>
> I’m not even sure how to reply to this, because honestly this is farther from the truth than anything I’ve ever read on this website.
>
> The community maps aren’t competitive? Are you sure? How about the fact that the MLG maps of Halo 3 were community made? How about the fact that the MLG maps of Reach and even most of the Team Slayer maps of reach were community made? Care to explain why 90% of forger I know make their maps with competitive gameplay in mind?
>
> Honestly sir/madam I just don’t know how to reply to this. Can you honestly say that Abandon is a balanced competitive map? Can you say that Complex was designed with Competition in mind?
>
> Explain why Ender is a balanced competitive symmetrical map. Or how about simplex? They weren’t made by professionals, and yet they are better competition maps than those made by the professionals.
>
> Are the community professionals? No, but then why stifle their creativity? Did valve stifle the communities creativity with their Hammer editor? No, in fact when the top community maps made by THE COMMUNITY were chosen to be online choices in Counter Strike GO there were payment rewards for the map makers.
>
> Just because the community aren’t professionals doesn’t mean they are incapable.
>
> Just because the community didn’t design the game doesn’t the mean they do not understand or try to understand the balance of the game.
>
>
>
> > @SilentA98 just because you like the BR doesn’t mean the BR is better.
>
> When did I say the BR was better? I didn’t give any personal opinions on the guns.
> If I did, it’d be that I like the Carbine. I’m not even a huge BR fan. That doesn’t mean I don’t want it balanced with the rest of the sandbox, which is wasn’t prior to the update.

I never said the community is incapable of making a map. I never said that they shouldn’t be in matchmaking. Why is it mixed with developer maps then?? I stated earlier it was because people would not play them simply. I would love to see community population of a community playlist against a community population of a developer map playlist. Guess what?!? This happened on Reach!!! Before community maps were mixed on Reach by 343, they had a team slayer community playlist and a community big team and the population of both of those playlists was less than 1000 players daily. Do you know what the developer maps were? 5000-13000 players in each of the developer maps playlists before the playlists were mixed.

Also towards the realism. This game is not Halo 2 by any means. With these changes it is making Halo 4 a Halo 2 game with wrong mechanics. Sorry this is not Halo 2 and we need to move on. If this was Halo 2, we would be in 2004 with bungie and the BR would have a lot less aim assist along with none of the other future weapons. THe kill times in all the weapons of Halo 4 was even to close to at launch. Basically, it showed us really what the DMR is really about. In a video by Bungie, a vidoc of halo reach, a bungie member even stated that the future of halo is the DMR and it is the successor to the BR. Sorry I don’t have the video currently but when I find it I will post it.

> I never said the community is incapable of making a map. I never said that they shouldn’t be in matchmaking. Why is it mixed with developer maps then?? I stated earlier it was because people would not play them simply. I would love to see community population of a community playlist against a community population of a developer map playlist. Guess what?!? This happened on Reach!!! Before community maps were mixed on Reach by 343, they had a team slayer community playlist and a community big team and the population of both of those playlists was less than 1000 players daily. Do you know what the developer maps were? 5000-13000 players in each of the developer maps playlists before the playlists were mixed.

The community maps are mixed with dev maps because there is a distinct lack of 4v4 developer maps in the game by default.

Adrift, Haven and Abandon are arguably the only 4v4 maps that shipped with the game. Would you want to play just those maps for 6 months and nothing else? Before/around Christmas people were begging for more maps to be added to the playlists, and at the time they had just released crimson (which was big team / objective styled maps, not slayer).

So, once they got their fileshare sorted out they had a community maps playlist for throwdown, the new competitive playlist.

There have been community maps playlists since then, most recently was the Forge Island playlist which showcased some forge maps. And you’re right, while Infinity and Big Team had 4000-5000 the community maps playlist had about 2000 some odd players.

But of course the playlist was going to have less. It was a slayer playlist almost identical to the slayer playlist already in the game. So people would check out the new maps, and then go back to their regular playlist once they were done.

There’s no point in having two almost identical playlists in the game, so they may as well integrate the Forge maps in with the Dev maps. It’s illogical to divide the community into two identical playlists.

The point of mixing the community maps with dev maps is to that the community doesn’t get bored of playing the same 3 maps over and over again. So periodically they take the very best the community has to offer and switch the old community maps out.

> Also towards the realism. This game is not Halo 2 by any means. With these changes it is making Halo 4 a Halo 2 game with wrong mechanics. Sorry this is not Halo 2 and we need to move on. If this was Halo 2, we would be in 2004 with bungie and the BR would have a lot less aim assist along with none of the other future weapons. THe kill times in all the weapons of Halo 4 was even to close to at launch. Basically, it showed us really what the DMR is really about. In a video by Bungie, a vidoc of halo reach, a bungie member even stated that the future of halo is the DMR and it is the successor to the BR. Sorry I don’t have the video currently but when I find it I will post it.

I don’t recall mentioning Halo 2. Anyone else see me mention Halo 2 anywhere?

As for the previous kill times, this was the order at which the weapons were placed from fastest to slowest kill times.

Light Rifle (Scoped) > DMR > Carbine > BR > Light Rifle (Unscoped)

You can see here, the Light Rifle was perfectly balanced for what it was meant to accomplish. But what’s this? The DMR has a faster kill time than the BR and the Carbine! This means it can beat the BR and Carbine in their own range, essentially making them pointless weapons to use.

Hence, the DMR was unbalanced.

Now the kill times are somewhere around this range (I haven’t done testing quite yet.)

LR (Scoped) > BR > Carbine > DMR > Light Rifle (Unscoped)

This is where it should be (I’d argue carbine should kill faster than the BR but that is besides the point). The DMR kills slower than both the close range rifles BUT still has the advantage on the Light Rifle at close range. It also has the advantage on both the BR and Carbine at long range.

Hence, it’s balanced.

As for the Bungie member stating that the “DMR was the future of Halo”, I’m just going to point out two things.

  1. New Developer.

  2. A Bungie member also stated that Armor Lock was balanced, it complemented gameplay well and that it was their favourite armor ability.

> > The community maps are mixed with dev maps because there is a distinct lack of 4v4 developer maps in the game by default.
> >
> > Adrift, Haven and Abandon are arguably the only 4v4 maps that shipped with the game. Would you want to play just those maps for 6 months and nothing else? Before/around Christmas people were begging for more maps to be added to the playlists, and at the time they had just released crimson (which was big team / objective styled maps, not slayer).
> >
> > So, once they got their fileshare sorted out they had a community maps playlist for throwdown, the new competitive playlist.
> >
> > There have been community maps playlists since then, most recently was the Forge Island playlist which showcased some forge maps. And you’re right, while Infinity and Big Team had 4000-5000 the community maps playlist had about 2000 some odd players.
> >
> > But of course the playlist was going to have less. It was a slayer playlist almost identical to the slayer playlist already in the game. So people would check out the new maps, and then go back to their regular playlist once they were done.
> >
> > There’s no point in having two almost identical playlists in the game, so they may as well integrate the Forge maps in with the Dev maps. It’s illogical to divide the community into two identical playlists.
> >
> > The point of mixing the community maps with dev maps is to that the community doesn’t get bored of playing the same 3 maps over and over again. So periodically they take the very best the community has to offer and switch the old community maps out.
> >
> >
> >
> > > Also towards the realism. This game is not Halo 2 by any means. With these changes it is making Halo 4 a Halo 2 game with wrong mechanics. Sorry this is not Halo 2 and we need to move on. If this was Halo 2, we would be in 2004 with bungie and the BR would have a lot less aim assist along with none of the other future weapons. THe kill times in all the weapons of Halo 4 was even to close to at launch. Basically, it showed us really what the DMR is really about. In a video by Bungie, a vidoc of halo reach, a bungie member even stated that the future of halo is the DMR and it is the successor to the BR. Sorry I don’t have the video currently but when I find it I will post it.
> >
> > I don’t recall mentioning Halo 2. Anyone else see me mention Halo 2 anywhere?
> >
> > As for the previous kill times, this was the order at which the weapons were placed from fastest to slowest kill times.
> >
> > Light Rifle (Scoped) > DMR > Carbine > BR > Light Rifle (Unscoped)
> >
> > You can see here, the Light Rifle was perfectly balanced for what it was meant to accomplish. But what’s this? The DMR has a faster kill time than the BR and the Carbine! This means it can beat the BR and Carbine in their own range, essentially making them pointless weapons to use.
> >
> > Hence, the DMR was unbalanced.
> >
> > Now the kill times are somewhere around this range (I haven’t done testing quite yet.)
> >
> > LR (Scoped) > BR > Carbine > DMR > Light Rifle (Unscoped)
> >
> > This is where it should be (I’d argue carbine should kill faster than the BR but that is besides the point). The DMR kills slower than both the close range rifles BUT still has the advantage on the Light Rifle at close range. It also has the advantage on both the BR and Carbine at long range.
> >
> > Hence, it’s balanced.
> >
> > As for the Bungie member stating that the “DMR was the future of Halo”, I’m just going to point out two things.
> >
> > 1. New Developer.
> >
> > 2. A Bungie member also stated that Armor Lock was balanced, it complemented gameplay well and that it was their favourite armor ability.
>
> First of all, when I mentioned Halo 2, the Halo 4 matchmaking team spoke numerous times about making Halo 4 in this update like Halo 2, by bringing that experience back to players. For example,the new multiplayer designer even said, we brought back the 2 shot melee kill with the BR. Not to mention many of the “Community” Former Halo MLG players tested out this update describing it bringing feelings back from Halo 2 and 3. Look no offense man, but this isn’t Call of Duty quick kills that we all know about. Halo 2 was a much faster gameplay just like what this update does makes gameplay faster with the movement speed increase and faster killtimes on all weapons except the DMR. Here is the video here:Halo 4 Weapon Tuning Update
>
> Also, your weapon killtimes are off, go to forge and test it yourself with vanilla settings. The Former Kill times on all the weapons were equal between the BR, DMR, LR,and Carbine. Yes the DMR had the fastest kill time of 1.24 but the BR was 1.26 and .02 off. Not much if you ask me. The LR not scoped was 1.28 and scoped was 1.17. The Carbine was 1.27. As you can see the longest killtime was the LR but when scoped in it beat all the weapons. Now the killtime with 4 shot BR is a huge difference placing the BR way ahead of the DMR along with the Carbine. THe DMR was designed as a better weapon, but the favorite is the BR among people because it was in the original Halo games. What I see here is favoritism among Halo players which is also wrong what makes a weapon good. Here is the video for the weapon kill times before the update: Weapon Killtimes I am giving facts not opinion like you have been presenting. If you had some facts maybe it would help but stating what you think is good and bad does not make the community better. Look into it do some research and then post your answer, give the facts.
>
> As far as community maps, I have never heard of a player who gets bored of developer maps unless they are casual, short time players. I am a Halo veteran playing thousands of games on each halo for the past 4 years. Even when I get every achievement, rank, medal, played map, and any other thing in the game. I don’t stop playing it like many other casual Halo players in the community. About 33% of the population that Halo 4 started with left after either playing the campaign, getting the highest rank, or all the achivements. Yes, the rest of the people left because they got “Bored” but that is because this game doesn’t mean anything to them like the veteran Halo players from the other games. Community maps deserve their own playlists for the other 80% of the halo population that would rather play developer maps. Most players can’t speak their opinions on the website here because most don’t know about it to state their opinion or out of their own way not caring to state and opinion. I see many opinions and facts on this website about the game and what needs to happen is a change for a game of the future not the present.

> First of all, when I mentioned Halo 2, the Halo 4 matchmaking team spoke numerous times about making Halo 4 in this update like Halo 2, by bringing that experience back to players. For example,the new multiplayer designer even said, we brought back the 2 shot melee kill with the BR. Not to mention many of the “Community” Former Halo MLG players tested out this update describing it bringing feelings back from Halo 2 and 3. Look no offense man, but this isn’t Call of Duty quick kills that we all know about. Halo 2 was a much faster gameplay just like what this update does makes gameplay faster with the movement speed increase and faster killtimes on all weapons except the DMR. Here is the video here:Halo 4 Weapon Tuning Update

Ah, that’s what you were getting at. I’m not sure why speeding up the game was a massive problem. You haven’t really given any reason as to why it’s all that bad and how it’s negatively affected the game. I realise Halo 2 was much faster gameplay but again, I don’t see how speeding up Halo 4’s gameplay bodes a massive negative effect.

The weapons are far more balanced now than they were before.

> Also, your weapon killtimes are off, go to forge and test it yourself with vanilla settings. The Former Kill times on all the weapons were equal between the BR, DMR, LR,and Carbine. Yes the DMR had the fastest kill time of 1.24 but the BR was 1.26 and .02 off. Not much if you ask me. The LR not scoped was 1.28 and scoped was 1.17. The Carbine was 1.27. As you can see the longest killtime was the LR but when scoped in it beat all the weapons. Now the killtime with 4 shot BR is a huge difference placing the BR way ahead of the DMR along with the Carbine. THe DMR was designed as a better weapon, but the favorite is the BR among people because it was in the original Halo games. What I see here is favoritism among Halo players which is also wrong what makes a weapon good. Here is the video for the weapon kill times before the update: Weapon Killtimes I am giving facts not opinion like you have been presenting. If you had some facts maybe it would help but stating what you think is good and bad does not make the community better. Look into it do some research and then post your answer, give the facts.

What opinions have I been presenting? Now you are presenting facts but before you weren’t. Again I’m not favouring any weapon right now.

Look, here are the following roles of the weapons:

Carbine: Close the Medium Range weapon.
BR: Close to Medium Range weapon.
DMR: Jack of all trades, versatile weapon.
LR: Long Range.

The BR and Carbine, if not more effective in the given ranges will be statistically useless if they do not kill faster in that range. The DMR should kill faster than them at long range, which it does because it has the advantage there. The BR is crippled by spread and the Carbine by non-visual bloom.

The Light Rifle should beat the DMR at long range because that is it’s given role. However, the DMR has the advantage at short range which is again, perfect.

The DMR is a versatile weapon, the others are not. It is also arguably the easiest to use (because it’s consistency doesn’t change at any range) and as such should not kill the fastest because if it does it will warrant any other weapon obsolete.

I did look into some research. Primary Weapons thread on THC.

This thread shows the kill times of the given utility weapons and how they compare to previous games. Again, this is a fact, and is what I have been basing my counterargument against you this entire time.

> As far as community maps, I have never heard of a player who gets bored of developer maps unless they are casual, short time players.

What was that about you saying “I have been giving facts” before? Because that doesn’t look like a fact. You may not have seen them, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t there.

> I am a Halo veteran playing thousands of games on each halo for the past 4 years. Even when I get every achievement, rank, medal, played map, and any other thing in the game. I don’t stop playing it like many other casual Halo players in the community. About 33% of the population that Halo 4 started with left after either playing the campaign, getting the highest rank, or all the achivements.

What does this have to do with anything? Being a Halo vet doesn’t instantly make your opinion more valid or mean you have any more of a point. I’m a Halo Vet too but it doesn’t matter nor is it relevant to the discussion.

Again, do you have any physical proof to show how much of the population left? I’m not saying people didn’t leave for those reasons but for someone who claims to be showing facts you don’t seem to be giving any support for them.

> Yes, the rest of the people left because they got “Bored” but that is because this game doesn’t mean anything to them like the veteran Halo players from the other games.

Or maybe because they have their own opinion on what makes Halo “Halo?” Did it ever occur to you that people left because they didn’t like the path Halo had gone down?

> Community maps deserve their own playlists for the other 80% of the halo population that would rather play developer maps. Most players can’t speak their opinions on the website here because most don’t know about it to state their opinion or out of their own way not caring to state and opinion. I see many opinions and facts on this website about the game and what needs to happen is a change for a game of the future not the present.

Prove your numbers. For someone claiming facts you’re giving a lot of statistics with no physical proof. You claim that 80% of the Halo community would rather play dev maps but again, there’s no proof in those numbers. It just looks like you’re making up a random statistic to help support your opinion.

> @SilentA98 just because you like the BR doesn’t mean the BR is better.

Yeah the BR takes less skill to kill, that is why “Pros” like it better. The DMR should be the TOP weapon, it is not overpowered, it is a Designated Marksman Rifle for crying out loud. I’ve been in the military and I can tell you that a DMR in the right hands is alot more deadly than a regular M16 on 3 round burst. M16 uses 5.56 mm rounds while the DMR uses 7.62 mm. Those who claimed it to be “overpowered” probably would say the same thing about a sniper rifle that had more than 4 rounds in its magazine. The only thing would have been to add a little bloom effect to more powerful weapons, since it really does take a little longer to re-acquire sight picture and sight alignment. BR also should have less magnification to keep it at a short to mid-range role.

> > @SilentA98 just because you like the BR doesn’t mean the BR is better.
>
> Yeah the BR takes less skill to kill, that is why “Pros” like it better. The DMR should be the TOP weapon, it is not overpowered, it is a Designated Marksman Rifle for crying out loud. I’ve been in the military and I can tell you that a DMR in the right hands is alot more deadly than a regular M16 on 3 round burst. M16 uses 5.56 mm rounds while the DMR uses 7.62 mm.

This is a video game. It is very important for games to be correctly balanced otherwise weapons go unused or people who want to use certain weapons are at a constant disadvantage. It has absolutely nothing to do with the strength of a Designated Marksman Rifle in the right hands nor the cartridge it fires.

Making the most versatile, consistent weapon the fastest killing in a video game where weapon balance matters will make that weapon overused and turn the game into a one gun game. I’m fairly certain loadouts were added to make sure it didn’t become a one gun game like previous Halo’s, so fighting for it to be a one gun game now doesn’t make any sense.

@ the OP:

Your quoted kill times are inaccurate. Here are accurate kill times (which I have been able to replicate). I cannot replicate the kill times you provided in a way that is relevant to gameplay. I believe others have had the same issue with that kill time video you posted.

Pre-TU:

LR (scoped): 1.4s
LR (unscoped): 1.77s
DMR: 1.47s
BR: 1.73s
Carbine: 1.64s

Note that, pre-TU, the DMR killed over 300ms faster than the BR, had no bullet spread, and had longer scoped and unscoped RRRs. This is hardly balance.

Post-TU:

LR (scoped): 1.2s
LR (unscoped): 1.83s
DMR: 1.53s
BR: 1.37s
Carbine: 1.4s

After the TU, the DMR, BR, and Carbine are all within 160ms of each other. BR and Carbine are slightly faster, which is appropriate, since the DMRs RRR is longer, allowing DMR users to begin engagements at a longer range. The tradeoff is slightly longer kill times for engagements at medium range. The tradeoff with the LR is obvious and needs no further comment.

Now, the problem with your video appears to be that it begins the timing from the time the first shot animation stops until the enemy is dead (though I cannot get exactly the same numbers that way, I get very close). While the weapons were, actually, fairly even in that respect, this time is irrelevant. From a gameplay standpoint, what matters is how long it takes to kill the enemy from the time your first trigger pull is registered.

So it is difficult to claim that the post-TU weapons are more “unbalanced” than the pre-TU weapons. It is legitimate to claim that you do not like the post-TU weapons as much . . . and I have no problem with you expressing your personal preference. Some will agree and others will disagree. For 343i, what matters is whether more players like the TU than dislike it. Preliminary feeling on the forum seems to be that more like it.

As far as realism goes, we’re a bunch of armor-encased humans fighting (and beating!) aliens using manually-aimed gas-powered weapons, hand-thrown frag grenades, and if we get behind them, we can dispatch them with a kitchen knife even if they could otherwise withstand a two-clip barrage to the face from a .50 cal sidearm (which also scopes without a scope).

Gameplay over realism.