Halo 4, if it not broke Don't try to fix it.

Explaining the changes made in Halo 4 from H3 to Reach to H4.

This is the BASIC lesson learned from Halo Reach that are applied to Halo 4. If you have not played H2 and H3 multi-player then you have no clue what i’m talking about. This is the reason why H2 and H3 were HUGE successes and Reach was not but Halo 4 will hopefully be.

Vehicle damage seems like a good idea but it does not work in reach, vehicles explode to fast from small arms fire and flip over easy(in Halo 4 I hope the vehicles are stronger especially since everyone can spawn with sticky nads). Bloom benefits a better connection and the DMR is overall less popular over the BR for a number of reasons. Reach doesn’t feel like its a Halo game, the movement of the characters is rough and choppy compared to the smooth and rhythmic sensation people are used to. Most of the maps in Reach are just terrible, giving one team a big advantage over the other because they are on the blue team. Frag grenades in Reach sometimes stick to objects instead of bouncing like they are suppose to. The revenant I have yet to play with someone who likes it. The banshee is over powered in Reach I am glad they fixed it in Halo 4. H3 had a more expanded version of ranks that was removed in Reach.

I could go on and on but there were a few good things about Reach like hit scan and more armor options and a more advanced forge although every forge object is the same exact color. The detail was improved slightly in reach. All of these features seem to be improved more in the new Halo 4.

Overall the negatives in Reach far surpassed all the benefits of H3 or H2 matchmaking. What players of the very popular H3 game expected in reach was a expansion of all the things they loved. What they got was the deletion of all the things they loved. Thankfully Halo 4 looks like they brought back a lot of the basics.

This is not meant to be a topic on reach, it is a topic to highlight the H3 to Reach failure and give people clarity on the features they brought back in Halo 4 from Halo 3.

It seems to me H4 is about 50% Halo 3, 25% Halo Reach and 25% new.

You were all over the place there, I can’t tell what you’re trying to prove.

> This is the BASIC lesson learned from Halo Reach. If you have not played H2 and H3 multi-player then you have no clue what i’m talking about. This is the reason why H2 and H3 were HUGE successes and Reach was not.
>
> Vehicle damage seems like a good idea but it does not work in reach, vehicles explode to fast from small arms fire and flip over easy. Bloom benefits a better connection and the DMR is overall less popular over the BR for a number of reasons. Reach doesn’t feel like its a Halo game, the movement of the characters is rough and choppy compared to the smooth and rhythmic sensation people are used to. Most of the maps in Reach are just terrible, giving one team a big advantage over the other because they are on the blue team. <mark>Frag grenades in Reach sometimes stick to objects</mark> instead of bouncing like they are suppose to. The revenant I have yet to play with someone who likes it. The banshee is over powered in Reach I am glad they fixed it. H3 had a more expanded version of ranks that was removed in Reach.
>
> I could go on and on but there were a few good things about Reach like <mark>hit scan and more armor options and a more advanced forge although every forge object is the same exact color. The detail was improved slightly in reach.</mark>
>
> Overall the negatives in Reach far surpassed all the benefits of H3 or H2 matchmaking. What players of the very popular H3 game expected in reach was a expansion of all the things they loved. What they got was the deletion of all the things they loved.

I agree however I like the highlighted

This is the Halo 4 Forum. If you want to talk about all of Reach’s apparent mistakes, there is a special section for that.

Or you can further explain how this is relating to Halo 4. Because I don’t see Halo 4 mentioned at all in that, except when you said the Banshee was fixed… but the post still isn’t about Halo 4 Banshees.

> You were all over the place there, I can’t tell what you’re trying to prove.

Removing or toning down original key features of the game is a bad idea. They should embrace those aspects.

Opinions, opinions, opinions and no point. Certainly nothing to do with Halo 4.

If you feel the need to be one those people that hateon Reac for the sake of hating on Reach, the least you can do is doi it in the Reach forum.

> > You were all over the place there, I can’t tell what you’re trying to prove.
>
> Removing or toning down original <mark>key features</mark> of the game is a bad idea. They should embrace those aspects.

That depends on your point of view

Reach was a success, I think it’s weird when people think it’s not. Many people think ODST was a failure, but it’s not, and I don’t know was in Bungie’s heads when they made ODST and Reach but they turned out good.

Don’t call Reach a failure when HALO 4 comes out.

> > You were all over the place there, I can’t tell what you’re trying to prove.
>
> Removing or toning down original key features of the game is a bad idea. They should embrace those aspects.

Which features?

Well, I liked Reach. I actually got it before Halo 3, and when I did eventually get Halo 3 (over my friend’s protests not to waste my money, in fact), it was good, but almost boring compared to Reach. Felt stiff and slow, much too shiny and glossed (seemed like a cartoon or anime sometimes), equipment seemed clumsily implemented (Halo’s version of the mine should go down as the worst trap-weapon in gaming history, and radar, EMP, and flare were ridiculously designed and, again, clumsy to use), and some of the weapons (AR, Mauler, pistol, etc.) were either useless or sounded bad. Campaign was much too short and easy (couldn’t tell a Chieftain from a minor, often), serious and silly clashed too much (you can’t take a “Humanity about to go extinct” plot seriously when every other grunt is squealing like a child “Please don’t kill me!” “He’s gonna murder us!” “I’m scaaaared!”), they tried too hard to make the Flood and Brutes scary (going over-the-top into silliness territory)… I could go on.

Still play it, but like Reach much better.

Like others have said, people have been declaring the next Halo ruined since Halo 2 was announced. It’ll blow over when H4 comes out, and everyone starts complaining about how Halo 5 will ruin the series.

> This is the Halo 4 Forum. If you want to talk about all of Reach’s apparent mistakes, there is a special section for that.
>
> Or you can further explain how this is relating to Halo 4. Because I don’t see Halo 4 mentioned at all in that, except when you said the Banshee was fixed… but the post still isn’t about Halo 4 Banshees.

Its related to all first person shooter Halo games which includes H4, H5 and H6. I’m looking at the broad picture of the Halo series not just one game and I am explaining history for the people that don’t understand the why H4 is more like older Halo’s than like Reach.

Exactly.

Why change a winning formula?

> Exactly.
>
> Why change a winning formula?

A question: what exactly would you have them do? Just a couple new vehicles and weapons? Some new armor? That’s not going to hold people’s attention for long. Even with Halo 3, people accused it of getting stale, being too like the previous one gameplay-wise, even though they added equipment, armor selection, and a plethora of new weapons and vehicles.

People just need to suck it up and accept that Halo can’t stay the same as it was in Halo 3. For its day it was great, but now it’d be considered outdated, simple, and bare.

> This is the BASIC lesson learned from Halo Reach. If you have not played H2 and H3 multi-player then you have no clue what i’m talking about. This is the reason why H2 and H3 were HUGE successes and Reach was not.

I’m just going to nit pick this apart since many people who say these things don’t remember many of the details surrounding previous Halo titles: Halo 2 and 3 sold many copies and was enjoyed just the same as anyone who enjoyed Reach. Reason I can say that is because players choice in what to enjoy is purely up to them. Far too often people believe that just because Halo 2/3 are no longer talked about, that invalidates the complaints which existed back then like button combo’s, boostable ranking structure (ranked), host switches (done with match altering intent), and all of these even went as far as to form an entire website dedicated to the hate of Halo 2. Because of those, it is more then arguable previous Halo titles have always remained at the pinnacle of bad or worse then Reach not in terms of gameplay, but in all other assets which are the mainframe for the gameplay environments and just because players wish to return to a simplistic form of gaming, they are willing to overlook many of those factors which have since changed (market, target audience, game developer programmer selection, etc.). You wish to say Halo 2 and 3 were successful and I agree to that, but the negatives which came with those should never be brought back and should not be encouraged. Make no mistake, they may have sold well, but at what point do you say sales are more important then the standards of a solid gameplay experience to promote cheating, boosting, and willful negligence to known issues? Personally, I say never.

> Vehicle damage seems like a good idea but it does not work in reach, vehicles explode to fast from small arms fire and flip over easy.

Vehicles do not take damage for flipping and promotes the idea of controlled driving as compared to pushing forward fully on your control stick. Even in Halo: CE the ability to push your vehicle all the way was not a good idea. Sure you had max speed, but you also had max recoil when you went over a ledge wrong. Reach did the fans of driving a favor by forcing people to consider what they did when they were faced with the prospect of flipping outside an enemy spawn.

Vehicle damage on the other hand was a good idea and implemented quite nicely for while many players like vehicle driving, many other gamers who are ground forces should be able to damage a vehicle with a sniper round traveling over 100 yards a second. Same to the Spartan Laser, rockets, and grenade launcher. I understand many vehicle drivers dislike that notion, but take the warthog, falcon, or banshee classification for example, all of those are not heavy vehicles. Heavy vehicles are designated to the Scorpion and Wraith respectively. For whatever the reasoning, that is how they are classified when you really get down to it and look at them from game to game. All too often people look for the banshee as a heavy vehicle and don’t realize that its an aerial vehicle and does not pack a punch against other vehicles AND infantry alike. Ever seen how many banshee bombs it takes to destroy a revenant, warthog, or ghost? All classified as light reconnaissance vehicles? Less then a handful of blasts and normally two direct hits destroys it. How many shots for a revenant to destroy a banshee? Three direct. Not talking about maneuvering ability, aerial versus ground, I’m talking about how much damage can the banshee take before its destroyed. How many seconds for a warthog turret to destroy a banshee? Roughly five to six if kept on constantly. End result is vehicle damage was implemented correctly with Reach.

> Bloom benefits a better connection and the DMR is overall less popular over the BR for a number of reasons. Reach doesn’t feel like its a Halo game, the movement of the characters is rough and choppy compared to the smooth and rhythmic sensation people are used to.

Thanks for your opinion.

> Most of the maps in Reach are just terrible, giving one team a big advantage over the other because they are on the blue team. Frag grenades in Reach sometimes stick to objects instead of bouncing like they are suppose to.

Personally, I have nothing against the maps on Reach besides a few things I’d alter about them. As for the game flow, who I’m facing holds more value to that then the map. the map is just pathways set up for me to utilize against my opponent. Nothing more. And no, I don’t consider what they can do. Why? It doesn’t matter when you know how to shoot and grenade place properly.

As for grenades, never encountered any issues with them.

> The revenant - I have yet to play with someone who likes it. The banshee is over powered in Reach - I am glad they fixed it. H3 had a more expanded version of ranks that was removed in Reach.

You have yet to play with me or anyone else who knows how to get a perfection with it in BTB. Banshee is still OP against infantry. H3 ranks were nice names, but honestly, I’d rather have new one’s which speak to a new game then keep old one’s and get redundant.

> I could go on and on but there were a few good things about Reach like hit scan and more armor options and a more advanced forge although every forge object is the same exact color. The detail was improved slightly in reach.

Reach overhauled its graphics engine to include traits never before displayed in previous Halo titles. Beyond that, I do agree many things Reach introduced were smart ideas and further that some implementations could have been approached differently.

> Overall the negatives in Reach far surpassed all the benefits of H3 or H2 matchmaking.

Not comparable beyond personal views. Sure H3 and H2 had its good traits and moments, but Reach has just as many positives as they did. Once again, it goes down to eye of the beholder.

> What players of the very popular H3 game expected in reach was a expansion of all the things they loved. What they got was the deletion of all the things they loved.

Don’t speak for others. They can speak for themselves.

> Well, I liked Reach. I actually got it before Halo 3, and when I did eventually get Halo 3 (over my friend’s protests not to waste my money, in fact), it was good, but almost boring compared to Reach. Felt stiff and slow, much too shiny and glossed (seemed like a cartoon or anime sometimes), equipment seemed clumsily implemented (Halo’s version of the mine should go down as the worst trap-weapon in gaming history, and radar, EMP, and flare were ridiculously designed and, again, clumsy to use), and some of the weapons (AR, Mauler, pistol, etc.) were either useless or sounded bad. Campaign was much too short and easy (couldn’t tell a Chieftain from a minor, often), serious and silly clashed too much (you can’t take a “Humanity about to go extinct” plot seriously when every other grunt is squealing like a child “Please don’t kill me!” “He’s gonna murder us!” “I’m scaaaared!”), they tried too hard to make the Flood and Brutes scary (going over-the-top into silliness territory)… I could go on.
>
> Still play it, but like Reach much better.
>
> Like others have said, people have been declaring the next Halo ruined since Halo 2 was announced. It’ll blow over when H4 comes out, and everyone starts complaining about how Halo 5 will ruin the series.

GET THIS MAN A COOKIE!

The assumption being that 343i is “fixing” a broken Halo game.

You might as well have said that there never should have been a Halo 2, 3, etc. Just Halo CE 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, etc.

When you have a game like Call of Duty (and I hate to use them as an example, except that it especially applies here) there’s really nowhere to go with a new release. It’s a game based on reality. At some point if they want to keep the game fresh they’re either going to have to go way back into the past or way into the future. At that point they will get bashed for copying Halo or whatever military FPS that takes place in the past. Because Halo is sci-fi they are not boxed in by what is possible today. In order to attract new players, you need new stuff. Old timers just have to live with that.

Obviously most of the people on these forums probably never played much of the games in the Halo franchise. I don’t know how else to explain it to people that have not played all of Halo CE, H2 and H3. Halo 4 is more like those game’s because they are just more entertaining to play. The graphics are worse but they are more fun as the game grew and developed over time. Although there are gamer’s that only played Reach and/or ODST over the other more popular Halo games.

There is still a fan base for both Reach/ODST and H1/H2/H3 games. Which I under stand makes it harder for 343 to satisfy their fan base. Comparing all of the Halo games has seamed to make H4 more appealing to there split fan base. There are some thing I wish was in H4, there are some things I wish were not in H4 and there are some things I think should be different about H4. All of which I think would benefit the over all fan base but how could you know if you never experience ALL of what the Halo Franchise has to offer.

Every time I try an play Reach, I just rage. When I go back to Halo 3, I thoroughly enjoy myself. 343i and Microsoft are just trying to milk Halo for all the money they can, and the easiest way to do that is to pander to the CoD crowd. At the end of the day, 343i would alienate their hardcore crowd in an instant if it meant better sales. They’re a business, and all they care about is profits. They don’t care about the fans, they only care about their bottom line.

> Obviously most of the people on these forums probably never played much of the games in the Halo franchise. I don’t know how else to explain it to people that have not played all of Halo CE, H2 and H3. Halo 4 is more like those game’s because they are just more entertaining to play. The graphics are worse but they are more fun as the game grew and developed over time. Although there are gamer’s that only played Reach and/or ODST over the other more popular Halo games.
>
> There is still a fan base for both Reach/ODST and H1/H2/H3 games. Which I under stand makes it harder for 343 to satisfy their fan base. Comparing all of the Halo games has seamed to make H4 more appealing to there split fan base. There are some thing I wish was in H4, there are some things I wish were not in H4 and there are some things I think should be different about H4. All of which I think would benefit the over all fan base but how could you know if you never experience ALL of what the Halo Franchise has to offer.

Or, more likely, most people on these forums have indeed played most Halo games (my exception being ODST and Wars, but the first is basically Halo 3 and the second doesn’t really factor here), but they see the possibility of just as much/more fun in the new game as the last few? Just because the “classic” formula worked doesn’t mean it’s the only one that ever will.

> > People boost/cheat in every playlist in every game ever made. a 1/50 ranking system has nothing to do with cheaters. The more popular the game the more cheaters there will be in it.
> >
> > I never said or want to go to a more simplistic form of gaming? don’t put words in my mouth.
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> > PhNx Hellfire]
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> > > I agree completely Its the same way in H2, H3 and Reach. No one ever complained about it.
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> > > PhNx Hellfire]
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> > > > Yes I agree with this to but the amount of damage ground forces can do to vehicles in Reach is to much and the vehicles get sometimes get flipped over by small arms fire like one DMR can flip over a Hog sometimes by shooting it in the tires.
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> > > > PhNx Hellfire]
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> > > > > Your welcome.
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> > > > > PhNx Hellfire]
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> > > > > > Well when both teams are evenly matched a one sided map like Paridiso were one side has more easy obtainable cover its a huge advantage. Good thing the maps look better in H4 but you don’t even care about the maps so it doesn’t matter to you.
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> > > > > > PhNx Hellfire]
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> > > > > > > LOL I have HUNDREDS of perfections with the Revenant in BTB. I also have 80+ kill sprees with it. I am really good with it to but I still know it sucks and could be SOOOO much better.
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> > > > > > > PhNx Hellfire]
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> > > > > > > > Overhauled is a big word. It does not seem that much better but its better.
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> > > > > > > > PhNx Hellfire]
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> > > > > > > > > unfortunately most have never and will never play H2, H3 matchmaking. Thankfully H4 will bring some of that feeling back.
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> > > > > > > > > PhNx Hellfire]
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> > > > > > > > > > No they can’t because over 80% of the ones on my friends list were so mad with Reach they rage quit after a month or two and stopped playing all together and are waiting for H4.