Just curious…i loved Halo 4, but a lot of people don’t. Just curious as to why. I feel that a lot of new games especially FPS games receive a lot of criticism and i just don’t get it, whether it’s Killzone Shadow fall, COD Ghosts, Titanfall and you know people will complain about Destiny too. but all that aside, what don’t you guys like about this game?
Halo 4 isn’t by any means a bad game, but it was a large step down from previous Halo games for players of a competitive nature.
The main problems with Halo 4 if you ask most good players are sprint and flinch (no de-scoping).
-A key element of previous Halo games was establishing map control. Each map had an area (or areas) that gave the team that controlled it an advantage (either the high ground or a certain power weapon/power-up). This encouraged players to move so games didn’t stagnate. With sprint however, players can traverse large distances extremely quickly, meaning that areas that would normally be power positions can be overrun extremely quickly. A player can die, respawn, and sprint back to his position before his teammates die (or before the other team regains their shields). Because of this if two teams try to control a position, the game turns into one in which both teams throw piles of their dead bodies at an area, instead of one team killing off the other and establishing control of said position, before the other team can regroup.
For an example, look at Haven. Top middle on Haven (Red and Blue landings and platforms) would be extremely important if sprint didn’t exist because it gives a view of most of the map and would be difficult to approach if the other team controlled it, as most paths leading to middle lack effective cover. However because of sprint any number of players can get to top middle extremely quickly whenever no one is looking in their direction for just a few moments. Controlling top middle is still a slight advantage, and I would advise doing it, but it can’t even be compared to, say, the pink tower on Midship. In Halo 2/Halo 3 you either held the pink tower or lost the game. On Haven you are only gently encouraged to hold the middle if possible. I’ve seen high level teams win by instead running in groups of two at the bottom of the map.
Some map-makers tried to remedy this problem by creating larger maps so that even while sprinting it took time to approach power positions, but that played hell with the gunplay. Fights tended to only happen at extremely long range, which is the opposite of an arena shooter.
-The flinch, or the lack of ability to knock an opponent out of their scope by shooting them, ensured that most times the player who hit first during a fight would win. In the other Halo games de-scoping your opponent at mid-long range by timing your own zoom between their shots added to the skill gap and helped differentiate the players with the best aim. Currently in Halo 4 matchmaking it wouldn’t be an exaggeration to say that nearly no-one competent misses.
TLDR: Sprint makes map control non-essential, removing incentive to move because no area on any map is drastically more important than any other area. No de-scoping means whoever shoots first will usually win in individual battles. This makes the competitive community buttmad (rightfully so).
-Killer Whale
as killer whale stated its not a bad game but for the halo community its a step-down.
ordnance is a very frustrating thing. you could be winning a game and then suddenly a guy on the enemy team gets a binary rifle and kills all of you and you loose the match. plus these random drop things annoy me too.
another thing is armor ability, we said we didn’t like it in reach but i guess 343 persisted that they could fix it.
that didn’t work out so well…
lodaouts
in halo 3 everybody started the same and you had to know the map to know where the weapons were.
now you have stuff like perks and loadouts which are completely unnecessary and annoying too.
i know they didn’t want the game to be stale but they should have listened to the community when they said they don’t want some things like these.
> as killer whale stated its not a bad game but for the halo community its a step-down.
> ordnance is a very frustrating thing. you could be winning a game and then suddenly a guy on the enemy team gets a binary rifle and kills all of you and you loose the match. plus these random drop things annoy me too.
>
> another thing is armor ability, we said we didn’t like it in reach but i guess 343 persisted that they could fix it.
> that didn’t work out so well…
>
> lodaouts
> in halo 3 everybody started the same and you had to know the map to know where the weapons were.
> now you have stuff like perks and loadouts which are completely unnecessary and annoying too.
> i know they didn’t want the game to be stale but they should have listened to the community when they said they don’t want some things like these.
I forgot to mention ordnance drops and armor abilities in my above post because I don’t play games using Infinity settings, and forgot that they existed for a minute there.
Needless to say Infinity settings are an abomination, unfit for competitive play.
> I forgot to mention ordnance drops and armor abilities in my above post because I don’t play games using Infinity settings, and forgot that they existed for a minute there.
>
> Needless to say Infinity settings are an abomination, unfit for competitive play.
well i thought i might say it since you didn’t, but i haven’t been playing h4 for awhile. on xb1
There’s also a strong dissatisfaction over a lack of skill-based matching. Close matches are inherently more fun than lopsided ones. And since h3 we haven’t had a sense that matches have been properly made, and even h3 had issues.
I would wager that having a visible ranking system based on win/loss would lessen players’ adverse responses.
I dont see a real issue with map control. My problem lies in the ordinance drops for a few reasons. The ordinance drops take away from the WEAPON control style of multiplayer that made Halo so fun. Back then, you had to fight over each weapon besides your starting weapon. Now people just do stuff like assisting, capping points or standing at the right place at the right time, even when they happen to be doing horrible and they will still eventually get a weapon. It is also completely random. The weaker player could get a rocket launcher and a much stronger player could get stuck with grenades at best. That field of randomness isn’t good for a competitive game.
latest joy? several games tonight the score did not count half the game. guess what - that = LEFT GAME EARLY
F U halo. fix your god d a m matchmaking problems that end up in people considered dropped even though still in game.
> > as killer whale stated its not a bad game but for the halo community its a step-down.
> > ordnance is a very frustrating thing. you could be winning a game and then suddenly a guy on the enemy team gets a binary rifle and kills all of you and you loose the match. plus these random drop things annoy me too.
> >
> > another thing is armor ability, we said we didn’t like it in reach but i guess 343 persisted that they could fix it.
> > that didn’t work out so well…
> >
> > lodaouts
> > in halo 3 everybody started the same and you had to know the map to know where the weapons were.
> > now you have stuff like perks and loadouts which are completely unnecessary and annoying too.
> > i know they didn’t want the game to be stale but they should have listened to the community when they said they don’t want some things like these.
>
> I forgot to mention ordnance drops and armor abilities in my above post because I don’t play games using Infinity settings, and forgot that they existed for a minute there.
>
> Needless to say Infinity settings are an abomination, unfit for competitive play.
How do you pull that off? Everybody votes for Infinity. Sometimes up for vote will be the same map, one Infinity, and one just Slayer … Infinity always wins 
On the plus side, I can chalk my losses up to “randomness”.
> latest joy? several games tonight the score did not count half the game. guess what - that = LEFT GAME EARLY
> F U halo. fix your god d a m matchmaking problems that end up in people considered dropped even though still in game.
You weren’t playing Medal Madness, were you?
> > I forgot to mention ordnance drops and armor abilities in my above post because I don’t play games using Infinity settings, and forgot that they existed for a minute there.
> >
> > Needless to say Infinity settings are an abomination, unfit for competitive play.
>
> How do you pull that off? Everybody votes for Infinity. Sometimes up for vote will be the same map, one Infinity, and one just Slayer … Infinity always wins
>
> On the plus side, I can chalk my losses up to “randomness”.
I only play with a full team and we all vote for Slayer BRs. Whenever it looks like the other team is going to vote for Infinity we back out.
Simple, but effective for relieving aggravation.
> I dont see a real issue with map control. My problem lies in the ordinance drops for a few reasons. The ordinance drops take away from the WEAPON control style of multiplayer that made Halo so fun. Back then, you had to fight over each weapon besides your starting weapon. Now people just do stuff like assisting, capping points or standing at the right place at the right time, even when they happen to be doing horrible and they will still eventually get a weapon. It is also completely random. The weaker player could get a rocket launcher and a much stronger player could get stuck with grenades at best. That field of randomness isn’t good for a competitive game.
I think killer whale and dark shinobi pretty much summed up the main issues I had with Halo 4.
Sprint and the ordnance system really put the nail in the heart of the old Halo arena style game.
Ordnance removed the necessity of map control in order to hold the power weapons like the rocket launcher.
Instant respawn also decreased the viability of playing as a team working to secure kills since players can literally re-challenge the guy who just killed them seconds after they just died. In older halo games, due to the respawn timer, the team that worked together to mow down opponents was rewarded with a power play.
Sprint then played havoc with encounters so the levels had to be made larger to accommodate faster movement speeds pushing combat exchanges out to max distance.
All of these issues had an end effect of making Halo a faster paced, yet ultimately more dissonant experience for multiplayer. Combat became more frenzied and team play became less coherent and unfortunately less needed.
i think we should give some cred to 343 on how chief looks! he feel so much like an super soldier.
I think what Andycu5 and I said here pretty much sums it up for me.
and i also think chief looks awesome now.
Sprint? I’m fine. Loadouts? Sure in non-arena arena.
I don’t like how things aren’t balanced properly though, randomness in ordnance stuff. And there are issues here and there. For instance custom games lacking, forge precision editing lacking, etc. A lot of people exaggerate on some stuff though I feel. Halo 4 is still, on it’s own, not a small game.
weapon and skill loadouts, i can understand an attempt to customize your playstyle a bit to what you prefer. dont whine though at all weapons not being perfectly balanced.
The armor abilities though, that might be going a bit too far. Copied from reach, but i still am at somewhat odds about it.
I may be completely outnumbered on this thread, but I really like Halo 4. I’m a fan of random ordinance drops. It keeps you on your toes and causes players to come up with new strategies in the middle of the battle. From a clan’s perspective, call-outs become ten times more important so everyone on the team knows who has what weapon on the enemy team.
Furthermore, I like armor abilities. I’m a defensive player so hardlight shield is my best friend. It allows me to slip away from the opponent and create a strategic advantage by either getting to high ground or leading the opponent back to my teammates for an easy kill. So, in my opinion, I think Halo 4 was actually an improvement for the average Halo player from previous Halo games.
I agree with Big Al 1300, I like many things about Halo 4 including the weapon drops, armor abilities, game types and also some of the new weapons that weren’t in previous Halo games. But one thing I don’t like is that I always seem to be matched with a lot of unskilled players or players that just muck around and do nothing or shoot you and their teammates and can get really annoying when all you want to do is just play some good matches and have fun. Another thing is sometime my match stats don’t get recorded. For example the other day I was playing Capture the flag and I got my 2nd Unfrigginbelievable and I saved the clip. Then I went to check the game stats and there was no history of it, no kills no sprees, not even any stats from the other players. Couldn’t find the stats on my Halo 4 stats on waypoint either. Apart from these problems I think Halo 4 is a great game, with an awesome campaign as well.
> Halo 4 isn’t by any means a bad game, but it was a large step down from previous Halo games for players of a competitive nature.
>
> The main problems with Halo 4 if you ask most good players are sprint and flinch (no de-scoping).
>
> -A key element of previous Halo games was establishing map control. Each map had an area (or areas) that gave the team that controlled it an advantage (either the high ground or a certain power weapon/power-up). This encouraged players to move so games didn’t stagnate. With sprint however, players can traverse large distances extremely quickly, meaning that areas that would normally be power positions can be overrun extremely quickly. A player can die, respawn, and sprint back to his position before his teammates die (or before the other team regains their shields). Because of this if two teams try to control a position, the game turns into one in which both teams throw piles of their dead bodies at an area, instead of one team killing off the other and establishing control of said position, before the other team can regroup.
>
> For an example, look at Haven. Top middle on Haven (Red and Blue landings and platforms) would be extremely important if sprint didn’t exist because it gives a view of most of the map and would be difficult to approach if the other team controlled it, as most paths leading to middle lack effective cover. However because of sprint any number of players can get to top middle extremely quickly whenever no one is looking in their direction for just a few moments. Controlling top middle is still a slight advantage, and I would advise doing it, but it can’t even be compared to, say, the pink tower on Midship. In Halo 2/Halo 3 you either held the pink tower or lost the game. On Haven you are only gently encouraged to hold the middle if possible. I’ve seen high level teams win by instead running in groups of two at the bottom of the map.
>
> Some map-makers tried to remedy this problem by creating larger maps so that even while sprinting it took time to approach power positions, but that played hell with the gunplay. Fights tended to only happen at extremely long range, which is the opposite of an arena shooter.
>
> -The flinch, or the lack of ability to knock an opponent out of their scope by shooting them, ensured that most times the player who hit first during a fight would win. In the other Halo games de-scoping your opponent at mid-long range by timing your own zoom between their shots added to the skill gap and helped differentiate the players with the best aim. Currently in Halo 4 matchmaking it wouldn’t be an exaggeration to say that nearly no-one competent misses.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> TLDR: Sprint makes map control non-essential, removing incentive to move because no area on any map is drastically more important than any other area. No de-scoping means whoever shoots first will usually win in individual battles. This makes the competitive community buttmad (rightfully so).
>
> -Killer Whale
Well this isn’t really all that accurate. Sprint was implanted because when you played on big maps it took you a good 30 seconds more or less to get in a good position to even get a sight on your enemy, not to say if you don’t get sniped from across the map. On small maps like Haven, your right. You can sprint right toward your injured foes location that you have already injured. But blame that on the instant respawning not the sprint. On small maps sprint works just fine. You have a better chance to fall back a regroup with your team when your under heavy fire. It actually makes the game way more exciting knowing you have to hit your foe in the head before he gets away, also for the player sprinting having to predict which path will not lead him to death or in the clutches of his hunter.
As for the map control aspect, that’s still in Halo 4 but ordnance drops ruins map control not sprint. If I can sprint toward the power weapons then so would my enemy, so theoretically we meet at the same time, just at a faster pace and after Reach we needed a faster pace games (Not knocking Reach I love it so much.) And if your not cautious sprint could get you killed. For example, if I died and my foe now holds the part of the map in which the rocket launcher spawns he’s obviously going to kill me whether I’m sprinting or not. And even if I don’t have a rocket I will mow him down with a battle rifle and he wouldn’t be able to even fire back because he’s sprinting. See if your smart you know when to use sprint and when not to use it. It makes Halo way more exciting Sprint was ment to speed up the game where you can encounter your earlier. And there is really no problem with long ranged firefights they are just as competitive as the BR fights you have in medium range. And guess what? When you kill that player in the power position, that position is now yours to hold. Not because of sprint, not because armor abilities or perks or anything you want to blame it on. It was just a 1v1 battle just like in the Halo’s except a different range with a suitable weapon of your choice.
> Well this isn’t really all that accurate. Sprint was implanted because when you played on big maps it took you a good 30 seconds more or less to get in a good position to even get a sight on your enemy
That’s not really accurate either. Before sprint, there were vehicles, man cannons, teleporters, infantry-only tunnels. Halo 3’s Rat’s Nest and Sandtrap are great examples of large maps that don’t require sprint.