Halo 4 DMR vs Halo: Reach DMR.

Games Other Halo
1

So I’m going to compare the Halo 4 DMR to the Reach DMR today.

To start: Why isn’t the Halo 4 DMR more like the Reach DMR? Despite how much I dislike Reach, I’ve been playing it more lately and I’m rather enjoying it. I’ve been playing FFA (cannot stand Halo 4’s terrible FFA, and there’s nobody on Halo 3 FFA) and the first thing I noticed was the difficulty in using the DMR.

Now, that’s not to say it’s actually difficult. It’s just a lot harder to use than the Halo 4 DMR.

I ended up testing the MLG zero bloom DMR and noticed a few things very quickly.

Good things about Reach DMR:

- Lower of Aim-Assist.

In Halo 4, it is so, so easy to stay on target. The aim assist does 90% of the work and aiming is practically non existent.

In Reach, despite having an arguable slower movement speed and lower jump height, it’s actually possible to miss people with the DMR.

- Different Magnetism

This was a huge part of it. If I was aiming at somebodies chest, I hit them in the chest. If I was aiming at the shoulder, I hit them in the shoulder. If I was aiming at the head, I hit them in the head. There was none of this shooting someone in the chest business and having the bullet magically move to their face (which happens so often in Halo 4 it’s not funny.)

I mean, I felt like I actually had to aim to hit the person in this game. I couldn’t just shoot at the edge of the reticule and register a headshot, I actually had to put the center of the reticule on their body!

Strafing and jumping to avoid DMR shots is much, much easier to do in this game and causes a lot less aggravation when playing. It also means the person with the better aim will win.

I routinely kill people when I’m one-shot in Halo: Reach. The same cannot be said for Halo 4.

- Lower Red Reticule range.

I actually had to move towards my enemies to get a kill. I couldn’t hip fire all the way across the map, I had to get in range, which is a lot shorter than Halo 4’s, to get a kill.

Problems with Reach DMR:

- Bloom
- Slow kill time.

The kill time on this gun is hilariously slow, especially when you bring bloom into the picture. This makes killing somebody who’s charging at you with a sword a royal pain in the -Yoink-.

Verdict:

Honestly, I prefer the reach DMR. It’s more skill based, and its lack of massive range makes it a lot better for gameplay. Despite its lack of range, it is still very effective at long range (bloom aside) and would be a very skill based weapon to use in Halo 4 BTB.

I don’t know why the reach DMR wasn’t used in Halo 4. It’s a lot more balanced and would definitely be a better gun given Halo 4’s bloom (or lack there-of) and kill time.

What do you guys think? Which do you prefer overall?

EDIT: Sorry for the poorly written thread. I wrote this earlier in the morning when I wasn’t fully awake.
Will be editing eventually.

2

Personally, I like both for different reasons, but i have to go with the Halo 4 DMR.

3

Kill time on h4 dmr is way to fast, feels like i’m playing cod sometimes

4

I gotta say, I really love the irony these boards have been showing over the DMR from Reach.

and you say it’s slow, I say it’s fine. My guess is that thanks to CoDs poisonous affliction it has had over other games, you’re now comparing the killtimes in CoD as the “standard” for FPS games, and anything below that as “slow”.

5

well I liked the bloom in Reach because I didn’t get killed across the map so quickly.

How is it possible to shoot 5 bullet in 1.6 seconds over 100 meters and no misses?
This makes DMR in BTB very annoying.

6

> I gotta say, I really love the irony these boards have been showing over the DMR from Reach.
>
> and you say it’s slow, I say it’s fine. My guess is that thanks to CoDs poisonous affliction it has had over other games, you’re now comparing the killtimes in CoD as the “standard” for FPS games, and anything below that as “slow”.

> irony

Slow is relevant and comparable to previous Halo game spawn weapons.

It’s slow as comparable to the Halo 2 Battle Rifle, the Halo 2 Carbine, the Halo 3 Carbine, the Halo CE Magnum, the Halo 4 DMR and the Halo 4 Light Rifle.

Compared to those, the DMR does kill fairly slowly, and bloom does not help the matter when you have to pace your shots.

> Kill time on h4 dmr is way to fast, feels like i’m playing cod sometimes

Halo CE magnum killed in .6 seconds. That’s still faster than CoD Kill times.

The Halo 4 DMR kills in 5 bullets, and in 1.47 seconds. 90% of CoD’s guns kill in 3 bullets, in roughly .3 seconds depending on the range. Others kill instantly, such as the sniper, shotgun, rockets, grenades, tomahawk, ballistic knife, headshots from 90% of the rest of the weapons, knives etc.

So no, I wouldn’t say the DMR is even comparable to CoD kill times, and this is from a CoD player.

> well I liked the bloom in Reach because I didn’t get killed across the map so quickly.
>
> How is it possible to shoot 5 bullet in 1.6 seconds over 100 meters and no misses?
> This makes DMR in BTB very annoying.

The DMR in Reach has less range. I personally don’t feel like it’s unbalanced when I play ZB settings, even at range, but to each their own I guess.

7

> I gotta say, I really love the irony these boards have been showing over the DMR from Reach.
>
> and you say it’s slow, I say it’s fine. My guess is that thanks to CoDs poisonous affliction it has had over other games, you’re now comparing the killtimes in CoD as the “standard” for FPS games, and anything below that as “slow”.

In a gametype like infinity where there are several power weapons which are more easily accessible and prevalent, you have to have faster kill times with the primaries. Even then, the problem with the DMR isn’t its kill time, it’s its aim assist/magnetism.

To the OP: Very glad that you outlined that the slow kill times and bloom were not mutually exclusive.

8

Average COD rifle kill time are around 0.1s and your comparing that to 1.47s. I don’t even >:( . Classic 1.4ish kill times worked great in past halo games, promoting a large skill gap, any longer than that then defensive play becomes too easy and power weapons reward free kills.

It is a real shame though that 343 decided to increase aim assist and nullify strafing. It is such a big part of what makes Halo Halo. Strafing was fine in V7 MLG Reach.

ZB Reach DMR is my favourite DMR so far but my perfect DMR would have a 1.47s kill time, recoil not bloom and more visible bullet trails.

9

> > I gotta say, I really love the irony these boards have been showing over the DMR from Reach.
> >
> > and you say it’s slow, I say it’s fine. My guess is that thanks to CoDs poisonous affliction it has had over other games, you’re now comparing the killtimes in CoD as the “standard” for FPS games, and anything below that as “slow”.
>
>
>
> > irony
>
> Slow is relevant and comparable to previous Halo game spawn weapons.
>
> It’s slow as comparable to the Halo 2 Battle Rifle, the Halo 2 Carbine, the Halo 3 Carbine, the Halo CE Magnum, the Halo 4 DMR and the Halo 4 Light Rifle.
>
> Compared to those, the DMR does kill fairly slowly, and bloom does not help the matter when you have to pace your shots.

Oh, really? Please, link to the many, many comments where I have used the word “irony” incorrectly or just used it at all.

No, you’re missing what I’m saying. You’re making the assumption of what is fast or slow based on the percieved notions that you have experienced over the course of the franchise and the players reactions to the use of these weapons. While at the same time ignoring other possibilities that this in fact could be a problem and that the actual speed and pace of the game is different from what you think it is, but can’t get it out of your head that what you’ve experienced is right.

It’s like if someone regularly speeds 10 over the speed limit. Eventually they just start making the assumption that the speed limit is incorrect and it should be based on their actions.

10

Well, I’m staying on topic.
Honestly, I wish halo 4 DMR was more like the Halo reach DMR.
The halo reach DMR took more skill to use, and it had good range but was very balanced. Bloom was what was keeping this weapon from being overpowered.
In halo 4, as soon as the DMR had the bloom taken away… Everything about the DMR went out the window, and it became one of halos most powerful weapons. And that’s not a good thing.

If 343 wants halo 4 to be more balanced, they need to start looking at what the DMR was before. Decreased rate of fire, and adding much more bloom. I’m pretty sure this would destroy the complaining about the DMR in halo 4.

Do you’s remember anyone complaining about the DMR in halo reach?

11

Change your “Problems with Reach DMR” section to “More good things:” and you’d nail it. I’ve always loved the bloom and the way patience vastly widens the skill gap.

12

> > I gotta say, I really love the irony these boards have been showing over the DMR from Reach.
> >
> > and you say it’s slow, I say it’s fine. My guess is that thanks to CoDs poisonous affliction it has had over other games, you’re now comparing the killtimes in CoD as the “standard” for FPS games, and anything below that as “slow”.
>
>
>
> > irony
>
> Slow is relevant and comparable to previous Halo game spawn weapons.
>
> It’s slow as comparable to the Halo 2 Battle Rifle, the Halo 2 Carbine, the Halo 3 Carbine, the Halo CE Magnum, the Halo 4 DMR and the Halo 4 Light Rifle.
>
> Compared to those, the DMR does kill fairly slowly, and bloom does not help the matter when you have to pace your shots.
>
>
>
> > Kill time on h4 dmr is way to fast, feels like i’m playing cod sometimes
>
> Halo CE magnum killed in .6 seconds. That’s still faster than CoD Kill times.
>
> The Halo 4 DMR kills in 5 bullets, and in 1.47 seconds. 90% of CoD’s guns kill in 3 bullets, in roughly .3 seconds depending on the range. Others kill instantly, such as the sniper, shotgun, rockets, grenades, tomahawk, ballistic knife, headshots from 90% of the rest of the weapons, knives etc.
>
> So no, I wouldn’t say the DMR is even comparable to CoD kill times, and this is from a CoD player.
>
>
>
> > well I liked the bloom in Reach because I didn’t get killed across the map so quickly.
> >
> > How is it possible to shoot 5 bullet in 1.6 seconds over 100 meters and no misses?
> > This makes DMR in BTB very annoying.
>
> <mark>The DMR in Reach has less range.</mark> I personally don’t feel like it’s unbalanced when I play ZB settings, even at range, but to each their own I guess.

And this is a lie. The DMR could shoot someone from literally across forge world. I stood at one end and my friend stood at the other. We could literally hit each other from across the map. Yes, you read that correctly, FORGE WORLD. Of course, the DMR had plenty of bloom in reach.

13

> > > I gotta say, I really love the irony these boards have been showing over the DMR from Reach.
> > >
> > > and you say it’s slow, I say it’s fine. My guess is that thanks to CoDs poisonous affliction it has had over other games, you’re now comparing the killtimes in CoD as the “standard” for FPS games, and anything below that as “slow”.
> >
> >
> >
> > > irony
> >
> > Slow is relevant and comparable to previous Halo game spawn weapons.
> >
> > It’s slow as comparable to the Halo 2 Battle Rifle, the Halo 2 Carbine, the Halo 3 Carbine, the Halo CE Magnum, the Halo 4 DMR and the Halo 4 Light Rifle.
> >
> > Compared to those, the DMR does kill fairly slowly, and bloom does not help the matter when you have to pace your shots.
> >
> >
> >
> > > Kill time on h4 dmr is way to fast, feels like i’m playing cod sometimes
> >
> > Halo CE magnum killed in .6 seconds. That’s still faster than CoD Kill times.
> >
> > The Halo 4 DMR kills in 5 bullets, and in 1.47 seconds. 90% of CoD’s guns kill in 3 bullets, in roughly .3 seconds depending on the range. Others kill instantly, such as the sniper, shotgun, rockets, grenades, tomahawk, ballistic knife, headshots from 90% of the rest of the weapons, knives etc.
> >
> > So no, I wouldn’t say the DMR is even comparable to CoD kill times, and this is from a CoD player.
> >
> >
> >
> > > well I liked the bloom in Reach because I didn’t get killed across the map so quickly.
> > >
> > > How is it possible to shoot 5 bullet in 1.6 seconds over 100 meters and no misses?
> > > This makes DMR in BTB very annoying.
> >
> > <mark>The DMR in Reach has less range.</mark> I personally don’t feel like it’s unbalanced when I play ZB settings, even at range, but to each their own I guess.
>
> And this is a lie. The DMR could shoot someone from literally across forge world. I stood at one end and my friend stood at the other. We could literally hit each other from across the map. Yes, you read that correctly, FORGE WORLD. Of course, the DMR had plenty of bloom in reach.

Was referring to red reticule range. I’m fully aware that the bullet continues to travel beyond said range, I was making a point that the Halo 4 DMR had significantly more RR range than the Halo Reach DMR.

This, combine with Halo 4’s level of Aim Assist and magnetism is what has led to it being a nuisance in long term engagements like BTB.

14

> > > I gotta say, I really love the irony these boards have been showing over the DMR from Reach.
> > >
> > > and you say it’s slow, I say it’s fine. My guess is that thanks to CoDs poisonous affliction it has had over other games, you’re now comparing the killtimes in CoD as the “standard” for FPS games, and anything below that as “slow”.
> >
> >
> >
> > > irony
> >
> > Slow is relevant and comparable to previous Halo game spawn weapons.
> >
> > It’s slow as comparable to the Halo 2 Battle Rifle, the Halo 2 Carbine, the Halo 3 Carbine, the Halo CE Magnum, the Halo 4 DMR and the Halo 4 Light Rifle.
> >
> > Compared to those, the DMR does kill fairly slowly, and bloom does not help the matter when you have to pace your shots.
>
> Oh, really? Please, link to the many, many comments where I have used the word “irony” incorrectly or just used it at all.

It was a joke. There wasn’t any Irony that I could perceive, hence why I stated that you misused the term.

> No, you’re missing what I’m saying. You’re making the assumption of what is fast or slow based on the percieved notions that you have experienced over the course of the franchise and the players reactions to the use of these weapons. While at the same time ignoring other possibilities that this in fact could be a problem and that the actual speed and pace of the game is different from what you think it is, but can’t get it out of your head that what you’ve experienced is right.

I pointed out that I personally felt the gun killed to slow in reach. This sir, is an opinion. Slower kill times make for slower gameplay, and less punishment for bad decisions. It also makes standstill engagements longer and severely drags down the quality of gameplay.

Now, the problem the Halo 4 DMR has that people attribute to it’s long kill times is the fact that it has impeccably massive range. It also has a very, very large amount of aim assist and magnetism (which a lot of guns in Halo 4 have) and that only strengthens it’s kill time to further its unbalance in the BTB playlist.

> It’s like if someone regularly speeds 10 over the speed limit. Eventually they just start making the assumption that the speed limit is incorrect and it should be based on their actions.

This is most definitely not the same as there is no pre-determined law for how fast a kill time should and should not be.

I personally do not like the slow kill time of the DMR. Personally. Meaning it is in my opinion which I am fully entitled to.

I feel it made weapons like the Sword a little stronger than they need to be.

It is not that I refuse to use slow kill times. I wouldn’t play reach if I hated slow kill times. I just personally feel the game would benefit if the kill times were marginally faster.

I am not asking they kill in .6 seconds, nor am I saying they should kill instantly. I am saying that it felt slow and bloom added to the slow times, and that I personally within my opinion feel that a slightly faster kill time would increase the quality of gameplay.

I am more than willing to test opposite scenarios and see if slower kill times benefit gameplay.

Thanks, and good day.

15

Good post OP. I like 'em both, so long as they stay in their respective games.

Reach was a much slower paced game. This was intentional as far as I’m aware. So the Reach DMR fit the play style and map types IMHO.

Halo 4 is frenetic, so the Halo 4 DMR always seemed appropriate to me. However I think the June 3 changes should help to fit it into its long range niche and satisfy the majority of unhappy users.

I like 'em both… I’ll reserve final judgment (independent of game) after June 3, though.

16

To be honest the thing that made the Reach DMR have less range than the Halo 4 DMR was bloom. I could imagine the outrage if they fixed the DMR by making it the one weapon with ridiculous bloom =)

17

> To be honest the thing that made the Reach DMR have less range than the Halo 4 DMR was bloom. I could imagine the outrage if they fixed the DMR by making it the one weapon with ridiculous bloom =)

Reach DMR has vastly shorter Red reticule (basically aim assist) range. At least, hipfiring anyway. I assume scoped is still shorter. Just trust me on that one :stuck_out_tongue:

Hah, that’d be the best worst fix ever.

18

> It was a joke. There wasn’t any Irony that I could perceive, hence why I stated that you misused the term.
>
> I pointed out that I personally felt the gun killed to slow in reach. This sir, is an opinion. Slower kill times make for slower gameplay, and less punishment for bad decisions. It also makes standstill engagements longer and severely drags down the quality of gameplay.
>
> Now, the problem the Halo 4 DMR has that people attribute to it’s long kill times is the fact that it has impeccably massive range. It also has a very, very large amount of aim assist and magnetism (which a lot of guns in Halo 4 have) and that only strengthens it’s kill time to further its unbalance in the BTB playlist.
>
> This is most definitely not the same as there is no pre-determined law for how fast a kill time should and should not be.
>
> I personally do not like the slow kill time of the DMR. Personally. Meaning it is in my opinion which I am fully entitled to.
>
> I feel it made weapons like the Sword a little stronger than they need to be.
>
> It is not that I refuse to use slow kill times. I wouldn’t play reach if I hated slow kill times. I just personally feel the game would benefit if the kill times were marginally faster.
>
> I am not asking they kill in .6 seconds, nor am I saying they should kill instantly. I am saying that it felt slow and bloom added to the slow times, and that I personally within my opinion feel that a slightly faster kill time would increase the quality of gameplay.
>
> I am more than willing to test opposite scenarios and see if slower kill times benefit gameplay.
>
> Thanks, and good day.

Joke would have worked more if it was a repeated statement by me, based on what the image was saying.
This is ironic, people would say that the DMR in Reach needed no bloom and that if they removed it then people would flock back to Halo. 343i made sure to “advertise” the lack of bloom the weapons had, and now people are complaining because the weapon is too strong, some even asking for more bloom.

Slow killtimes doesn’t automatically make slow gameplay. A game can still be fast paced with “slow” killtimes. The situation or game can drastically change based on some new element, stategy, weapon etc. that was just put into play that has changed at least how the current situation will play out, and maybe change how the rest of the match will play out despite what some people thought would happen.

Look at League of Legends or Team Fortress 2. Except for a few cases, the killtimes in those games are rather “slow” but the game is still fast paced.

You say slow killtimes can allow bad decisions. Not exactly true, getting into a bad situation is still a bad situation. You can still supress or control someones movement by continuing to attack or even threaten them. Also gives you enough time to adapt and change strategies in order to defeat them before they can come up with a plan. With fast killtimes you take out strategy, as all battles just boils down to “who-sees-who-first” and there’s no strategy when your enemy can just kill you before you can even start it. It allows people to make even more bad decisions as it will mostly come off as bad timing or line of sight that caused the player to lose that last fight. In Call of Duty, I never thought for a second about how I just died, as it was usually because they started shooting me first, usually when I wasn’t looking.

You misunderstand what I was trying to say. I was saying that after a long time of doing something “wrong” it will start to come off as something “right”. Especially when a lot of people hate admitting when they are wrong.
There is no “law” for how fast a game should be, but so many people are trying to enforce what they think the “law” should be.

But the beautiful thing about Halo is that sooo many people are been ignoring over the years is the options to change and create your own gametypes for what you would like to currently play Halo as. There’s nothing wrong with something like SWAT, o even increasing all weapon damage to 150%. There’s also nothing wrong with players who like bloom as they think it adds to the insensity of fights or those who hate when Halo becomes a “one-gun only” game. But there is something wrong when one group of players try to enforce their gametypes universally across all gametypes (see voting period for Reach).

Last thing, you seem to be hiding behind the misconception of “Opinions can’t be wrong!”. That’s not true, opinions can be wrong, although I’m not saying you are wrong in this case.
What you’re thinking of is “taste”. Your “taste” can’t be wrong. If someone likes SWAT and it’s the only gametype they can play in Halo, then that’s fine (although I do find the lack of gametypes in SWAT to be a concern). But if it’s their opinion that Halos gameplay should be nothing but SWAT and that all gametypes and playlists should be removed except for SWAT, then at that point they are wrong and people probably shouldn’t listen to him.

19

> You misunderstand what I was trying to say. I was saying that after a long time of doing something “wrong” it will start to come off as something “right”. Especially when a lot of people hate admitting when they are wrong.
> There is no “law” for how fast a game should be, but so many people are trying to enforce what they think the “law” should be.

Unfortunately for you, the reality of the situation is that for Halo kill times below 1.5 seconds work significantly better than those above. First of all, a distinction between minimum and “average” kill time needs to be made. Minimum is obviously the fastest possible, while average is obviously the average length of a direct encounter.

The speed of the minimum kill time isn’t nearly as significant as the difference between that of the minimum and the average. You mentioned combat being about who sees who first with fast kill times. That’s not the fault of fast kill times, but the fact that no maneuver will turn the tide of the encounter. In other words, because the engaging player kills so fast that there is little time between their and the minimum kill time, it leaves very little room for the player being attacked to kill faster (which would be required for them to win). So, obviously, the problem is that the average kill time is too close to the minimum, and hence there is little room for improvement.

The fastest kill time could really be far faster than you think. Of course, the faster it becomes, the more difficult it is to maintain a difference between the fastest and the average kill time. However, ideally, it’s as fast as possible. You see, the problem with long minimum kill times is, first of all, like with shorter kill times, that it becomes harder and harder to maintain a large difference, because the whole idea of non-automatic weapons is that there is a very short time frame between two shots in which you need to put your reticule on the opponent. The longer that time frame, the easier it is to do it within that time frame.

Alternatively, the kill time can be extended with needing to fire more shots with the same time frame, but the problem here is that the more shots you require the player to get, the less an individual shot matters. An extreme example is close range automatic combat which requires little skill due to single shots mattering so little that you can consider the shots as a single beam rather than individual bullets. Nonetheless, the less an individual shot matters, the more difficult it becomes to get that edge in the encounter, and the more likely you are to come out of the encounter with very little health left if you survive, delaying your ability to continue to the next encounter.

For the aforementioned reasons, the minimum kill time should be as fast as possible, with a significant difference between it and the average. You see, if the kill times are slow, or rather, if the difference between minimum and average is small, you will almost certainly be overwhelmed by two opponents, and you have to wait a significant amount of time until you can continue after the last encounter. This forces team shooting as, obviously, two players are far stronger than one player, and one player has little chances of survival unless they are constantly monitored by a teammate.

Team shooting is a very, very simple form of strategy. As a matter of fact, it’s not even a “real” strategy in the sense that doing it requires little mental work, but a basic mechanic of team play. However, that doesn’t mean it should forced. Ideally, team shooting is an option, not a necessity. When it’s not forced, but instead an individual player is strong enough to be able to survive without constant supervision from a teammate, the team can be more spread out on the map and hence work with more complex strategies.

And for these reasons fast minimum kill times with a significant gap between the average are optimal for Halo. It allows for more individual skill, which in turn gives more depth to possibilities of team work. So, by no means do you need to support fast minimum kill times, but do understand that they allow for deeper gameplay, and are hence more optimal.

20

I loved Reach’s DMR so much more than Halo 4’s. From the way it looked, sounded, felt, and performed, it was easily my favorite of the two.