Halo 4 - Did 343 let us down?

> Why does it seem like the only thing on the forums is people -Yoinking!-? Everyone one has been hating on halo 4 and 343 and saying things like, " you shouldn’t added this or removed this or it’s too much like cod". But you know what? If 343 or bungie never changed anything in all the halo games then it would be cod, because there is nothing ever new in the next cod games it’s just a different campaign.

I agree with you on a-lot of what you said there. And I do think that with every game it has to evolve to some degree, otherwise it would be boring and bland and I have no problem with 343i wanting to try small new things. 343i haven’t done that. They haven’t tried anything new. They have taken components from a popular game and made them fit into Halo 4. Plus, the amount of drastic changes they have added to Halo 4 completely destroy the core gameplay that we have had in previous titles. I say, that they shouldn’t change but improve. Don’t take what people have played for years and change it in the hopes of attracting the COD fan-base, all 343 have done is alienate their own fans. You could say, that if Halo 4 didn’t change at all, but improve from the previous games that it would have more players. COD use the same copy and paste formula for every one of their games but hey, its the most popular game on both the Xbox and PS3. They must be doing something right.

> People never complained before halo 4, but after everyone started hating. If you hate halo 4 or 343 then don’t play it.

Again, someone said this before. “If you don’t like the game then leave”, and I will say again. People are complaining on the forums because they want to see change, they care about the game that they have loved for more than 10 years. Nobody is going to back off because 343 messed up. The fans deserve what they want, a Halo game.

> But to be fair it is 343i’s first game and they did a pretty good job with it.

I respect your opinion however I don’t think that just because Halo 4 is 343i first game makes it an acceptable excuse. They had the franchise handed to them on a silver platter from Bungie and all they had to do was add their own flare to it, not make it a completely different game.

A bit late to the discussion… oh well.

So OP, since when did Infinity Ward/Treyarch bring anything original to the table? They, as well as other game developers are doing the copypasta, so why can’t 343i (to a certain extent)?
Using ideas from another franchise is pretty much the norm today, and labeling Halo 4 as a blatant ripoff of CoD makes no sense.

At least Halo has changed, which is something all the Modern Warfare/Black Ops titles have yet to accomplish (apparently).

People need too stop hating on halo so everyone says they want halo back too how halo 3 was then go play it now i love halo 3 and 2 and 1 but they need too look too the future and not keep it the same bungie abandoned it and you wouldn’t even have a halo game if it wasent for 343 maybe there not perfect but the reason i don’t play call of duty anymore is because its the same they havent changed much since cod 4 and yes Ive played all cods and i traded my black ops 2 away cause i didn’t like it mw3 is the only 1 i liked but that not the point halo has evovled yes i have problems with it too but its not gonna be a perfect game my only real issue is there’s not enough gametypes thats it other then that i love this game if you dont like it get rid of it thats how simple it is

In my opinion, and in the opinion of many competitive players that I know, Halo 4 is lacking many features that it needs to keep players playing it. Yes, before someone argues that there are still players, there are some. The undeniable fact is that there is a dramatically smaller population on Halo 4 now compared to release. All games lose population after release, but not to this degree. Anyways here is a list of features that MUST be added/removed/altered:

-A RANKED PLAYLIST(SOOO many players have quit the game due to this including well-known professional gamers.

-GET RID OF ORDINANCE DROPS(I get the idea of moving forward and introducing this idea of rewarding good play whether it be objective or from kills, BUT this has been promoting players to post up and that doesn’t make for an interesting/enjoyable game when you are playing a team of players camping with invisibility and snipers all over.)

-GET RID OF INVISIBILITY AS AN AA or PUT IT AS A POWERUP SOMEWHERE ON THE MAP(I personally feel this AA is the new armor lock from REACH that NOBODY, but the people who used it liked.)

-NERF THE DMR/BOLTSHOT AND BEEF UP THE CARBINE(Right now the DMR is overpowered. Say what you will, but it kills faster than the BR, kills at a longer range than any weapon besides the sniper, and causes flinch while the BR and Carbine don’t. The boltshot is far to overpowered to be a secondary. Yes it does take some skill to time it, but any above average player can use it effectively with relative ease. Finally the Carbine isn’t even a viable choice for a primary. It takes nearly a full clip to kill an enemy and since you do not get unzoomed when shot anymore by it, the Carbine loses its overwelming traits.)

-ADD A REAL FFA PLAYLIST(I’m sorry but Regicide just isn’t enjoyable for me. Lone Wolves is a time old Halo playlist and needs to be in the game for the fanbase that lives for FFA. Add FFA in and put Regicide as one of the variations you can vote for.)

-ADD TEAM SNIPERS IN PERMANANTLY(Another much loved Halo playlist that should be in the game. There is a huge fanbase for team snipers that was teased by it being added then removed again. Put it in and throw shotty snipers in as a variation to vote on.)

-MAKE A CLASSIC HALO 2 AND 3 STYLE PLAYLIST!(I CANNOT stress this enough. If 343i would put in a classic playlist, a good portion of the people on this forum alone would be happy. It may not fix all the faults of this game, but I guarantee a classic playist would hold many players over until the TU.)

-ADD IN A MULTI-TEAM PLAYLIST(Multi-team succeeded in Halo 3 and Halo Reach. Yes this playlist as well as many I am suggesting are old and some people feel that the series needs to move on, but adding in the variety from the past Halo games helps preserve the replayability and Halo feel of the game.)

-ADD BACK IN THE UNZOOM WHEN SHOT FEATURE(This feature is more of my personal preference so it’s not as crucial. In my opinion, taking out this feature makes it too easy to be consistent in a gun fight. In past Halos, when you were shot you got unzoomed and had to use skill to re-align your aim. Now if you’re being shot it has absolutely no effect on your aim. Additionally this makes sniping pathetically easy to do now.)

-FIX THE HIT BOXES(This is yet another personal preference that isn’t as crucial. Please fix these because it is far too easy to land a head shot with any weapon especially a sniper. I don’t know what changed in Halo Reach and Halo 4 regaurding the hit boxes, but sniping has been a joke in these games in my opinion.)

These are all the things that I could think of to improve Halo 4. I tried to state them in a more constructive manner without referencing any other games outside of the Halo series. If anyone likes, hates, or wants to add to my ideas please feel free to reply. I do ask that you do it constructively and do not simply respond with hateful comments. Thank you and please help make this game better!

yes we were let down but not as much as reach, but like reach it was still a good game not as good as we expected, not in the traditional way we’ve played halo. I won’t hate on people who don’t like the game but really halo has to change to feel new, look at CoD its the same game in different clothes. I agree yes multiplayer and forge were large letdowns, spartan ops is cool apart from the repetitiveness and campaign was my favorite aspect of the game, 343 can tell a good story

So yes parts of the game were letdowns but think of the good

> So OP, since when did Infinity Ward/Treyarch bring anything original to the table? They, as well as other game developers are doing the copypaste, so why can’t 343i (to a certain extent)? Using ideas from another franchise is pretty much the norm today, and labeling Halo 4 as a blatant ripoff of CoD makes no sense.
>
> At least Halo has changed, which is something all the Modern Warfare/Black Ops titles have yet to accomplish (apparently).

Yes they did bring originality to the table. Go take a look at Call Of Duty 3, then, take a look at Call Of Duty 4 Modern Warfare. They made a complete change from their original COD to the one we have today. They changed it because it wasn’t working. They’ve kept the same copy and paste formula from COD 4 since 2007. Why? Because it worked. Look at COD now. It is by far the most popular game on the Xbox and PS3. Halo 4 made a drastic change where it was not necessary, it had a large population and it stayed true to its original formula, because it worked. look at it now. Halo Reach strayed just a little too far from the original formula but not so much that it was unbearable. Halo 4 did just that. Did you know that Halo 4 is now number 4 on the Xbox currently? Did you know that it took a whole year for Halo Reach to drop to number 4? Halo 4 has only been out for a little over 2 months. Just because other game developers can’t find any originality and copy COD formula doesn’t make them any better, and it certainly doesn’t give 343 an excuse to do the same. I’ve said this before but I’ll say it again, Halo was the one FPS that stood out among the likes of COD, Battlefield and MOH. It didn’t use the copy and paste formula and it did great. It thrived and flourished. Halo 4 tried to be something that it’s not, and look at how it has done. I laugh when people argue that it is the bestselling Halo game. The only reason for that is because people thought they were going to get another Halo 3. You just have to go and look at the population to tell that the game isn’t liked. Why play a game that’s like COD, when you could just play COD.

[My thoughts on being one of the many Halo Veterans pushed to the side by this game.

My thoughts on people simultaneously bashing on halo 1-3 and defending this game.

My thoughts on people relying on poor arguments that “the game HAS to change or it will die” with no evidence backing their position, but in fact evidence backing the contrary just by looking at COD’s success.

My thoughts on not being able to give more thanks to this thread.

My thoughts on the game market in general.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WINDtlPXmmE)

> My thoughts on being one of the many Halo Veterans pushed to the side by this game.
>
> My thoughts on people simultaneously bashing on halo 1-3 and defending this game.
>
> My thoughts on people relying on poor arguments that “the game HAS to change or it will die” with no evidence backing their position, but in fact evidence backing the contrary just by looking at COD’s success.
>
> My thoughts on not being able to give more thanks to this thread.
>
> My thoughts on the game market in general.

Thank you.

> > So OP, since when did Infinity Ward/Treyarch bring anything original to the table? They, as well as other game developers are doing the copypaste, so why can’t 343i (to a certain extent)? Using ideas from another franchise is pretty much the norm today, and labeling Halo 4 as a blatant ripoff of CoD makes no sense.
> >
> > At least Halo has changed, which is something all the <mark>Modern Warfare/Black Ops titles</mark> have yet to accomplish (apparently).
>
> Yes they did bring originality to the table. Go take a look at Call Of Duty 3, then, take a look at Call Of Duty 4 Modern Warfare. They made a complete change from their original COD to the one we have today. They changed it because it wasn’t working. They’ve kept the same copy and paste formula from COD 4 since 2007. Why? Because it worked. Look at COD now. It is by far the most popular game on the Xbox and PS3. Halo 4 made a drastic change where it was not necessary, it had a large population and it stayed true to its original formula, because it worked. look at it now. Halo Reach strayed just a little too far from the original formula but not so much that it was unbearable. Halo 4 did just that. Did you know that Halo 4 is now number 4 on the Xbox currently? Did you know that it took a whole year for Halo Reach to drop to number 4? Halo 4 has only been out for a little over 2 months. Just because other game developers can’t find any originality and copy COD formula doesn’t make them any better, and it certainly doesn’t give 343 an excuse to do the same. I’ve said this before but I’ll say it again, Halo was the one FPS that stood out among the likes of COD, Battlefield and MOH. It didn’t use the copy and paste formula and it did great. It thrived and flourished. Halo 4 tried to be something that it’s not, and look at how it has done. I laugh when people argue that it is the bestselling Halo game. The only reason for that is because people thought they were going to get another Halo 3. You just have to go and look at the population to tell that the game isn’t liked. Why play a game that’s like COD, when you could just play COD.

Notice how I only referred to Modern Warfare/Black Ops here? Look, I even highlighted this part for you.

Also… if you believe that’s originality, you are wrong. Take a look at Battlefield 1942, then take a look at Battlefield 2. You should also noticed where this change occurred in the timeline:

2003 - 2005

WHICH IS ROUGHLY 2-3 YEARS BEFORE CALL OF DUTY MADE THE JUMP TO MODERN WARFARE

You think that was a coincidence?

Regardless of whether you, or anyone else wants a game to change or not, it doesn’t change the fact that it will at some point. I would rather have it change than to stay the same throughout its short lifespan, doomed to become stale & boring very quickly. The problem is not the new features that are added, it is how they are implemented.

If you think they simply cannot work and want them removed, you are only running away from the issue instead of trying to solve it and move forward. Don’t tell me it’s impossible.

NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE.

> Also… if you believe that’s originality, you are wrong. Take a look at Battlefield 1942, then take a look at Battlefield 2. You should also noticed where this change occurred in the timeline:
>
> 2003 - 2005
>
> WHICH IS ROUGHLY 2-3 YEARS BEFORE CALL OF DUTY MADE THE JUMP TO MODERN WARFARE.
>
> You think that was a coincidence?

You make a valid point. COD may have used Battlefield as a platform but they evolved it. Modern Warfare and Battlefield 2 are completely different. In short, I do think that COD 4 didn’t actually copy Battlefield 2. Battlefield 2, as you said came out 2-3 years before COD made the jump it did. You honestly think that it took the devs at COD to realize after 3 years that Modern Warfare shooters are the way to go? I believe that the devs at COD always had Modern Warfare planned if their own WWII shooters weren’t popular, and I certainly don’t think that they ripped-off Battlefield 2. And let’s just say for argument’s sake that the devs at COD did copy Battlefield 2. Do you think that that is an acceptable excuse for 343i to do the same? I think not.

> Regardless of whether you, or anyone else wants a game to change or not, it doesn’t change the fact that it will at some point. I would rather have it change than to stay the same throughout its short lifespan, doomed to become stale & boring very quickly. The problem is not the new features that are added, it is how they are implemented.

I agree with you. However, I wouldn’t use the word change. Change, is only necessary when something is not doing well. It’s why COD made the change. In Halo’s case it was working. It didn’t need change. It changed where it wasn’t necessary. I’m not saying that the game should just stay the same, not at all. But instead of “change” let the game “improve” or “evolve”. It’s why COD is popular. They remain unchanged yet, always improving and evolving all the same. And maybe sometimes change is necessary. But if so, it has to be original, never done before. Oh yes Halo 4 changed, but it turned into another COD.

> If you think they simply cannot work and want them removed, you are only running away from the issue instead of trying to solve it and move forward.

No, I think that new things can work, as long as they’re new. I’m not running from any issue, hence the post. Solving it, is the goal of this, and many other topics on this forum.

> Don’t tell me it’s impossible.
> NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE.

Inspirational, to say the least. That was almost as cringe-worthy as cracking a joke with a group of people you just met, and it turns out your the only one laughing.

> Inspirational, to say the least. That was almost as cringe-worthy as cracking a joke with a group of people you just met, and it turns out your the only one laughing.

Tough crowd…

> -A RANKED PLAYLIST

Yes, yes yes and yes.

> -GET RID OF ORDINANCE DROPS

Wait and see, soon you’ll be able to call in a Longsword Bomber-Run, or a Pelican Gunner assist!

> -GET RID OF INVISIBILITY AS AN AA or PUT IT AS A POWERUP SOMEWHERE ON THE MAP

For one, I think that custom classes should just go altogether and that there should be just game-set load-outs. Like how they did it in Reach.

> -NERF THE DMR/BOLTSHOT AND BEEF UP THE CARBINE

DMR needs to be nerfed. Boltshot needs to go. Why would they put a one-shot weapon into custom classes? Its ridiculous. Can’t say I agree with you on the Carbine. The Carbine’s fast rate of fire compensates for its Damage.

> -ADD A REAL FFA PLAYLIST

YES! Why, why, why did they get rid of this? Its a disgrace, even more so to be replaced with that awful game-type regicide. To be honest, I wouldn’t have complained if they had Juggernaut in Regicides place.

> -ADD TEAM SNIPERS IN PERMANANTLY

Yup.

> -MAKE A CLASSIC HALO 2 AND 3 STYLE PLAYLIST!

Oh God yes! Before I even started hating the game I wondered why they didn’t have a classic playlist. I do hope however, that they won’t even have to use a playlist like this in Halo 5.

> -ADD IN A MULTI-TEAM PLAYLIST

Agreed. Multi-team was absolute chaos. It was the best for playing split-screen with some of your friends around. I can’t begin to describe the fun I had on Rocket Hog Race on Hemorrhage!

> -ADD BACK IN THE UNZOOM WHEN SHOT FEATURE(This feature is more of my personal preference so it’s not as crucial.)

Agreed. It doesn’t seem like a massive problem yet it makes all the difference. If the un-zoom when shot feature was back in Halo, it would force players to seek cover when being shot instead of just shooting back.

> -FIX THE HIT BOXES

I have noticed that Halo 4 is a little too generous when it comes to sniping.

I agree with pretty much everything you have pointed out but, this can’t be your entire list? I would give you mine put the list goes on and on.

I can just tell from your writing style OP that you are a 13 year old.

> I can just tell from your writing style OP that you are a 13 year old.

Really? Well to be honest I don’t know if that’s a complement or an insult! First off, I’d like to say that I’m not thirteen years old and I don’t believe I write like a thirteen year old, however that is really subject to one’s opinion. I take it that that was, in-fact an insult and too be honest I don’t really want to get into a flaming argument because it has nothing to do with this thread. Even if it was any other thread, I would not dignify your petty insults with some of my own, for I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an un-armed man.

If you were any less intelligent, I believe I would have to water you, my good man.

Found this comment on another post and thought it made a-lot of sense:

Halo stopped being a market leader and became a market follower.