Halo 4 Custom Gaming Concerns

Hello everyone, I am not a frequent poster nor have I been playing halo a lot lately however, like the rest of you I am very excited for halo 4.

As a long time “forger” I would like to say that I have become pretty accomplished in making custom games that are fun to play or are marvels in terms of what a player made map can be given the limitations presented by forge. Regardless of how expansive it is, it will always have it’s limits.

However, this is not what I want to talk to you, the community, and 343 industries if possible, about. What I wish to bring up is not only stretching those limitations in forge but giving them a purpose.

I’m not sure if it’s just me, but I remember a time in halo 3 when random strangers could become great friends through laughter and appreciation of a fun and addicting custom game. We all know that finding a party with 16 players to play games like “Fat Kid” or “grifball” (before it was put into matchmaking) was a novel experience, Having the chance to play something not normally offered in game? astounding at the time. I loved having the opportunity to share with the community the maps I spent hours trying to get just right. I loved having the opportunity to hear 1st hand what people thought of my creations, whether it be through raised voices and laughter or simply leaving my party never to return.

Where did it all go? No one seems to care for custom games anymore because there’s no point to seeing YOUR custom map. Why should I, the player, after cycling through a list of literally thousands of maps labeled “free 10000000 credit mod”, “XXX HOT CHICK”, or “SUPER AWESOME FUN TIME MAP” feel that your map will be any different? Why should I play infection with you if I can go to matchmaking and play it there? You as a map creator can claim that your map and game type is “different” and “better” than the match made game but where will you ever find a player that will actually give you the benefit of the doubt after seeing all of the trashy player content available for them to look at on a giant list? In my Experiences it’s about 1 in 15.

When you look at matchmaking in Halo: Reach today what do you see? player made content everywhere across every playlist. You have access to infection, a staple game mode for custom game creators, and grifball which I can see is in it’s right because there isn’t too much variation. There are player made maps for slayer which look excellent however what we don’t seem to notice is how much it takes away from a custom game. Constantly bombarding the player with user created content makes a custom game feel, I would say, “nothing special”.

Now that I have finished explaining the situation I notice more and more every time I try to get a custom game party of 16 players going let me share my thoughts on what can be done.

Halo 3 was amazing in this sense. There was no way to play match making infection most of the time and people were more than willing to play user generated content and just have a good time. I suggest the removal of game types similar to party games such as Infection to be removed from matchmaking as it takes away from the point of forge. If games such as these are removed from matchmaking there will be a greater desire to get away from serious competitive play, make a quality game, and know that there is a large number of people who are willing to take a break from the normal halo matchmaking experience every once in a while to play something fun. I have found myself wondering what the point of making a map is when no one wants to play it, or I can have a party of 12 formed for me automatically in a matter of seconds in a matchmaking custom game.

But seriously, that giant list of downloadable user generated content? I’m not saying there isn’t a good number of quality maps in there, I’m saying that most of them are not and it kills the desire to give an honest map creator a chance to flaunt his creation, share it with others, and have fun along with his/her intended audience.

With that said, keep up the good work creating forge 3.0. The recent demonstration video gives me hope that many more, much more creative, maps will be made by the community and shared in such a way they become more accessible and enjoyable.

Thank you.

TL;DR

A matchmaking system for games like infection as well as player made content vying for the attention of the player sucks the point out of making a forge map that many players can enjoy anymore. If everyone is given the convenience of a matchmaking system to play a similar game that a player makes which could take well over half an hour to gather a full party for, the matchmaking game will take all the attention away from user generated content due to the time commitment. No one wants to play custom games anymore because of this, Map creators feel making a quality map is pointless due to lack of players willing to play, and too much access to user generated content like with the huge list of downloadable user content in Halo: Reach makes every player hesitant to even try a map some one has made to appeal to other people, not just themselves.

A custom games finder/list like the Farcry games have on console would solve this. Even Farcry Instincts Predator, which released in 2006, has this feature, and allows you to easily populate custom game lobbies.

sorry everyone. like I said, I don’t frequent the forums here so I accidentally posted this twice. The post I intended to release is called “Halo 4 Custom Games”

wouldn’t a forger want to create a map if that person knows that the map might be played by thousands and thousands of people?

I agree that Customs have stagnated in Reach, but I don’t think it’s because of the Matchmaking implementations… Especially since the Reach Matchmaking implementations of many “party games”, such as Infection, are highly inferior to what can be found in Customs.

I think the real problem just stems from Reach itself… A lot of the people that would play Custom Games left Reach because they despised its gameplay, and those that stayed ignored Customs because of the pitiful cR payouts it offered compared to Matchmaking. With much of the audience for Customs gone, the Forge communities had little reason to build or be active, causing them to stagnate and limiting the flow of good community maps into the community. That, combined with Most Downloaded and Most Recommended being filled with the kind of infantile trash you mentioned, appears to be the driving force behind the death of Customs in Reach.

> I agree that Customs have stagnated in Reach, but I don’t think it’s because of the Matchmaking implementations… Especially since the Reach Matchmaking implementations of many “party games”, such as Infection, are highly inferior to what can be found in Customs.
>
> I think the real problem just stems from Reach itself… A lot of the people that would play Custom Games left Reach because they despised its gameplay, and those that stayed ignored Customs because of the pitiful cR payouts it offered compared to Matchmaking. With much of the audience for Customs gone, the Forge communities had little reason to build or be active, causing them to stagnate and limiting the flow of good community maps into the community. That, combined with Most Downloaded and Most Recommended being filled with the kind of infantile trash you mentioned, appears to be the driving force behind the death of Customs in Reach.

have to agree, I remember going through the most downloaded maps and seeing maps that were not only immature (pictures of -Yoink!-’s really need to stop) but also pretty mediocre (in my opinion).

as for them giving poor Cr payouts, well I imagine that was to prevent boosting.

> > I agree that Customs have stagnated in Reach, but I don’t think it’s because of the Matchmaking implementations… Especially since the Reach Matchmaking implementations of many “party games”, such as Infection, are highly inferior to what can be found in Customs.
> >
> > I think the real problem just stems from Reach itself… A lot of the people that would play Custom Games left Reach because they despised its gameplay, and those that stayed ignored Customs because of the pitiful cR payouts it offered compared to Matchmaking. With much of the audience for Customs gone, the Forge communities had little reason to build or be active, causing them to stagnate and limiting the flow of good community maps into the community. That, combined with Most Downloaded and Most Recommended being filled with the kind of infantile trash you mentioned, appears to be the driving force behind the death of Customs in Reach.
>
> have to agree, I remember going through the most downloaded maps and seeing maps that were not only immature (pictures of -Yoink!-’s really need to stop) but also pretty mediocre (in my opinion).
>
> as for them giving poor Cr payouts, well I imagine that was to prevent boosting.

Don’t forget all the fake 10000000000 cr and/or armor effect maps. Or the half-finished maps where the author got lazy and decided to upload it anyway. Or the people who plop down a pile of spawn points, weapons, and vehicles on either side of the canyon, and think they’ve given us this “awesome battleground” & expect people to praise their Forging “skills” (cause you know that map really must have taken a lot of time and effort). If there are any structures, they’re often sloppily placed walls or blocks that form a crude “hangar.”

I’ve also noticed quite a few maps (generally crappy, but not always) that have popular, but unrelated names to draw attention. For example, you might download a map that says “Star Wars,” and what you get is a generic MP map (this map may or may not be any good; they generally suck, but even when they’re decent, you still feel cheated by the fact that they’re just trying to leech downloads).

We need a better way to rank Forge maps. At least some way to rank them on a 1-5 basis or something. Tagging is worthless, because bad maps can easily be tagged as good, and vice versa, and it’s also too easy to “keyword spam” maps with unrelated search terms just to get more downloads (this is often even worse than giving the map an unrelated name, since custom searches are done through the tags rather than title searches). The current system is too easily abused by having all your friends tag, like and/or recommend your maps whether they’re good or not.

>

We also need a reporting feature. It would work like the one on BNet’s forums, where files are placed in a report queue depending on how many reports they’ve received. Files below a certain threshold don’t appear.

We need that because I’m quite tired of seeing poorly-done Forge -Yoink!- in Most Downloaded.

> >
>
> We also need a reporting feature. It would work like the one on BNet’s forums, where files are placed in a report queue depending on how many reports they’ve received. Files below a certain threshold don’t appear.
>
> We need that because I’m quite tired of seeing poorly-done Forge -Yoink!- in Most Downloaded.

lol, sounds like a good idea.

> wouldn’t a forger want to create a map if that person knows that the map might be played by thousands and thousands of people?

I believe that was the logic behind the Halo: Reach system, however is the map creator ever aware of how many people are playing or how much they enjoy it? I mentioned a couple games from halo 3; Fat Kid, Infection, Jenga, and all the other games everyone knew. They were influential in the community because they were known. In Reach barely anyone has an idea of what was what in terms of what a good custom game was (sorry for the wording, I’m exhausted). I can’t name one good custom game in Reach everyone gets together regularly to play with other people they pick up from games, mainly because no one wants to play anymore. Then we get back into my big rant blah blah blah…

All great comments everyone. Whatever the solution may be, as it seems there are multiple problems, I hope 343 is made aware and makes the necessary changes.

> I agree that Customs have stagnated in Reach, but I don’t think it’s because of the Matchmaking implementations… Especially since the Reach Matchmaking implementations of many “party games”, such as Infection, are highly inferior to what can be found in Customs.
>
> I think the real problem just stems from Reach itself… A lot of the people that would play Custom Games left Reach because they despised its gameplay, and those that stayed ignored Customs because of the pitiful cR payouts it offered compared to Matchmaking. With much of the audience for Customs gone, the Forge communities had little reason to build or be active, causing them to stagnate and limiting the flow of good community maps into the community. That, combined with Most Downloaded and Most Recommended being filled with the kind of infantile trash you mentioned, appears to be the driving force behind the death of Customs in Reach.

You hit the nail on the head. I don’t know, but it just seems like it was a bit… tougher to create a custom game in Reach than it was in Halo 3… more “limited” in a sense. There are more hoops to jump through (why do I need to create a hill/haven in order to have Zombies?). Also, a popular gametype for Customs was removed (VIP) and Forge World itself. All of the gray got real old, real fast. Hopefully, the “Age of Gray” is over.

Looking back, Custom Games was all the rage in Halo 3. Fat Kid, Asset, Protect the President, Traps, Jaws, Zeus, etc… Reach killed them all. Halo 4 needs to turn things around.

I hate downloading bad maps too. I download them, go on to see that they are bad, and then I delete them. I wish it showed if people liked a certain map more. Be better than the process I do now.

Custom games died in Halo 3 after MW2 came out. I hardly played any after that.

I think the problem was people being haters and simply not playing Reach. The lack of people made custom games unused which sucked since they were vastly superior. :confused: I’ve played a few and they were great and fun.

Halo 4 will most likely bring back custom games since Halo 4 isn’t just a spinoff of the main series like Reach was.

> >
>
> We also need a reporting feature. It would work like the one on BNet’s forums, where files are placed in a report queue depending on how many reports they’ve received. Files below a certain threshold don’t appear.
>
> We need that because I’m quite tired of seeing poorly-done Forge -Yoink!- in Most Downloaded.

Map thumbnails would be helpful as well for helping us get an idea of what a map is like before downloading. I hate how all Forge maps in Reach have the generic Forgeworld thumbnail (or less commonly, the Tempest thumbnail) while browsing the online fileshare. A map thumbnail while browsing the in-game fileshares would be good as well.

I big fix to the trash that is uploaded could be a thumps up or a thumbs down, next to the file.