Halo 4 core gameplay should be similar to halo 3's

Before I go any farther, I would like to explain what Core Gameplay is… Core gameplay is what makes the raw gameplay of a game, from the instance the controller is in your hands and your shooting things in the face. Many things can make up core gameplay such as:
Armor Abilties
Perks
Aiming Down sights
Jump height
Melee lung
Arsenal of weapons
Bleedthrough
Gun Damage
Assassinations, and etc.

It is NOT things like:
Playlists,
Gametypes,
Forge mode,
theater,
Ranking system, etc.

Now onto my post…
I deeply hope with every ounce of my love for the halo series that halo 4 will be more similar, actually very similar to Halo 3’s gameplay. I’m not saying it should be Halo 3.5, I want a fresh Halo experience, but it wont even be a halo experience if the gameplay isn’t familar to the original halo titles. I just wish that with Halo Reach bungie didn’t try to change the core gameplay, but add to it.

I certainly wish i could hop into Reach multiplayer and kill someone who had .1% of shields left with a melee attack.
I certainly wish that in Reach my banshee wouldn’t be wrecked by a sniper
I certainly wish that active camo and Overshields were powerups
I certainly wish people wouldn’t sprint away from me when they were losing a firefight against me
I certainly wish that grenades weren’t mini nukes, I certainly wish that their wasn’t fall damage or fall recovery(that things where your spartan absorbs shock when he falls a distance and can’t move)
I certainly wish I didn’t have to pace my shots, only to be killed by someone spamming the trigger
I certanily wish i could play invasion with Halo 3’s core gameplay,
I certainly wish I could play Firefight 2.0 with halo 3s core gameplay
i wish i could do forge 2.0 in halo 3
i wish equipment would be in reach as pick ups on maps that didn’t affect gameplay, instead of AA’s you spawn with and are unlimited
I wish i could do campaign matchmaking but with the core gameplay of halo 3
I wish i could drive the falcon w/ halo 3’s core gameplay, Oh how i wish i could dual wield in Reach.
I wish…

Halo Reach had many cool features and cool new vehicles and sweet new weapons, awesome armorie items, and a good campaign. but the core gameplay really killed it for me, and I really hope they don’t do that with Halo 4 by making the choice to make it similar to Reach instead of Halo 3.

Aside from that, i also hope they take out things like
-player acceleration
-and BR spread, or at least make it less of a spread.
But if they keep those in Halo 4 i won’t mind it too much, if it has the orignal core gameplay, or something similar to it, I will love it.

Discuss.

Good post, I really hope that this happens with h4.

Yup, a lot of these issues are frustrations that surpass the levels of annoyance of the issues in Halo 3

> Yup, a lot of these issues are frustrations that surpass the levels of annoyance of the issues in Halo 3

and in spite of those little annoying things, Halo 3 was still a fun game. i wish it was the same for reach :[

Meh. I really wish this love affair with melee bleedthrough would go away; it’s a poor mechanic. Reach’s is better. I’m not saying that in the ‘I like it better’, I’m saying it as a ‘from a game design standpoint, it’s better’. Now, I’m not a fan of the melee damage, which is the cause of all that ‘I shoot he double-pummels me anyway’ business…but try the 75% melees in Classic or MLG, and they work beautifully. As any Halo melees have been since CE, anyway.

That said, there’s a lot to be picked up from all the Halo games. I’d personally like the core gameplay to be close to CE, but with the improvements of the other games: better vehicle physics (remember being able to kill someone by barely love-tapping them with a warthog? …most of you probably don’t. But you could!), hijacks, EMP, assassinations (say what you will, they’re badass - and totally optional)…but CE had the basics down. It had a small, but almost perfectly balanced sandbox (the ever-beloved pistol was the only thing that stood out), kill times were quick but not instant (if I want instant, I’d have been playing Counterstrike), melees were skilled finishing moves rather than the number 2 most-used-‘weapon’, destructible vehicles showed you their health, you could see your passenger’s health…CE was a very clean experience. Even on the PC, with lag.

What I don’t want to see are a whole bunch of useless weapons, AAs as the default experience, warthogs that roll if so much as somebody yells into their mic loudly, incredibly overpowered one-man vehicles (I’m looking at you, Scorpion and Banshee), two-hit-melee kills bleedthrough or not, or a one-size-fits-all-‘utility’ weapon that renders anything else except power weapons pretty much usless (I.e.: BR/DMR, and damn-near CE pistol).

Though I must admit, even though it doesn’t fall into the ‘core gameplay’, maps are probably the biggest thing to make or break Halos for me. I want to see big maps with lots of options for different engagements - Halo PC maps are a beautiful representation of this, though the Halo 2 maps aren’t too far behind.

> Before I go any farther, I would like to explain what Core Gameplay is… Core gameplay is what makes the raw gameplay of a game, from the instance the controller is in your hands and your shooting things in the face. Many things can make up core gameplay such as:
> Armor Abilties
> Perks
> Aiming Down sights
> Jump height
> Melee lung
> Arsenal of weapons
> Bleedthrough
> Gun Damage
> Assassinations, and etc.
>
> It is NOT things like:
> Playlists,
> Gametypes,
> Forge mode,
> theater,
> Ranking system, etc.
>
> Now onto my post…
> I deeply hope with every ounce of my love for the halo series that halo 4 will be more similar, actually very similar to Halo 3’s gameplay. I’m not saying it should be Halo 3.5, I want a fresh Halo experience, but it wont even be a halo experience if the gameplay isn’t familar to the original halo titles. I just wish that with Halo Reach bungie didn’t try to change the core gameplay, but add to it.
>
> I certainly wish i could hop into Reach multiplayer and kill someone who had .1% of shields left with a melee attack.
> I certainly wish that in Reach my banshee wouldn’t be wrecked by a sniper
> I certainly wish that active camo and Overshields were powerups
> I certainly wish people wouldn’t sprint away from me when they were losing a firefight against me
> I certainly wish that grenades weren’t mini nukes, I certainly wish that their wasn’t fall damage or fall recovery(that things where your spartan absorbs shock when he falls a distance and can’t move)
> I certainly wish I didn’t have to pace my shots, only to be killed by someone spamming the trigger
> I certanily wish i could play invasion with Halo 3’s core gameplay,
> I certainly wish I could play Firefight 2.0 with halo 3s core gameplay
> i wish i could do forge 2.0 in halo 3
> i wish equipment would be in reach as pick ups on maps that didn’t affect gameplay, instead of AA’s you spawn with and are unlimited
> I wish i could do campaign matchmaking but with the core gameplay of halo 3
> I wish i could drive the falcon w/ halo 3’s core gameplay, Oh how i wish i could dual wield in Reach.
> I wish…
>
> Halo Reach had many cool features and cool new vehicles and sweet new weapons, awesome armorie items, and a good campaign. but the core gameplay really killed it for me, and I really hope they don’t do that with Halo 4 by making the choice to make it similar to Reach instead of Halo 3.
>
> Aside from that, i also hope they take out things like
> -player acceleration
> -and BR spread, or at least make it less of a spread.
> But if they keep those in Halo 4 i won’t mind it too much, if it has the orignal core gameplay, or something similar to it, I will love it.
>
> Discuss.

OH GOD, another one of these whiny posts, yes, lets make the banshee even more OP than it already is, and have no weapons damage it what so ever, if you want halo 3 gameplay go play halo 3. Over 200 thousand people play reach on a daily basis, and that number is GOING uP again. Maybe add the jump height and the bleed though from halo 3, but that’s -it-. Other than that halo 2 and 3 I felt like a fat panda bear rather than a spartan super soldier.

> Meh. I really wish this love affair with melee bleedthrough would go away; it’s a poor mechanic. Reach’s is better. I’m not saying that in the ‘I like it better’, I’m saying it as a ‘from a game design standpoint, it’s better’. Now, I’m not a fan of the melee damage, which is the cause of all that ‘I shoot he double-pummels me anyway’ business…but try the 75% melees in Classic or MLG, and they work beautifully. As any Halo melees have been since CE, anyway.
>
> That said, there’s a lot to be picked up from all the Halo games. I’d personally like the core gameplay to be close to CE, but with the improvements of the other games: better vehicle physics (remember being able to kill someone by barely love-tapping them with a warthog? …most of you probably don’t. But you could!), hijacks, EMP, assassinations (say what you will, they’re Yoink! - and totally optional)…but CE had the basics down. It had a small, but almost perfectly balanced sandbox (the ever-beloved pistol was the only thing that stood out), kill times were quick but not instant (if I want instant, I’d have been playing Counterstrike), melees were skilled finishing moves rather than the number 2 most-used-‘weapon’, destructible vehicles showed you their health, you could see your passenger’s health…CE was a very clean experience. Even on the PC, with lag.
>
> What I don’t want to see are a whole bunch of useless weapons, AAs as the default experience, warthogs that roll if so much as somebody yells into their mic loudly, incredibly overpowered one-man vehicles (I’m looking at you, Scorpion and Banshee), two-hit-melee kills bleedthrough or not, or a one-size-fits-all-‘utility’ weapon that renders anything else except power weapons pretty much usless (I.e.: BR/DMR, and damn-near CE pistol).
>
> Though I must admit, even though it doesn’t fall into the ‘core gameplay’, maps are probably the biggest thing to make or break Halos for me. I want to see big maps with lots of options for different engagements - Halo PC maps are a beautiful representation of this, though the Halo 2 maps aren’t too far behind.

I can agree with this post. Honestly, I want some improvements from the past games, but also maintain the same core Halo gameplay (preferably CE or 2) that made you fell in love the series.

Ever since randomness and slow(er) gameplay was brought into the mix (BR spread, bloom, equipment and AAs) I’ve been slowly stopped caring about the series.

Halo 3 with reach graphics and features.

> Halo 3 with reach graphics and features.

thanks tomok

> Meh. I really wish this love affair with melee bleedthrough would go away; it’s a poor mechanic. Reach’s is better. I’m not saying that in the ‘I like it better’, I’m saying it as a ‘from a game design standpoint, it’s better’. Now, I’m not a fan of the melee damage, which is the cause of all that ‘I shoot he double-pummels me anyway’ business…but try the 75% melees in Classic or MLG, and they work beautifully. As any Halo melees have been since CE, anyway.
>
> That said, there’s a lot to be picked up from all the Halo games. I’d personally like the core gameplay to be close to CE, but with the improvements of the other games: better vehicle physics (remember being able to kill someone by barely love-tapping them with a warthog? …most of you probably don’t. But you could!), hijacks, EMP, assassinations (say what you will, they’re Yoink! - and totally optional)…but CE had the basics down. It had a small, but almost perfectly balanced sandbox (the ever-beloved pistol was the only thing that stood out), kill times were quick but not instant (if I want instant, I’d have been playing Counterstrike), melees were skilled finishing moves rather than the number 2 most-used-‘weapon’, destructible vehicles showed you their health, you could see your passenger’s health…CE was a very clean experience. Even on the PC, with lag.
>
> What I don’t want to see are a whole bunch of useless weapons, AAs as the default experience, warthogs that roll if so much as somebody yells into their mic loudly, incredibly overpowered one-man vehicles (I’m looking at you, Scorpion and Banshee), two-hit-melee kills bleedthrough or not, or a one-size-fits-all-‘utility’ weapon that renders anything else except power weapons pretty much usless (I.e.: BR/DMR, and damn-near CE pistol).
>
> Though I must admit, even though it doesn’t fall into the ‘core gameplay’, maps are probably the biggest thing to make or break Halos for me. I want to see big maps with lots of options for different engagements - Halo PC maps are a beautiful representation of this, though the Halo 2 maps aren’t too far behind.

I agree with you. i think lunge should be taken out completely, or at least more minimal than it was in previous halo games.

But bleedthrough speeds up gameplay and makes it a lot more smooth. I respect or opinion and hope 343i listens to both of ours.
And i too wish the CE pistol with No auto aim would return, but i’ve come to learn at the launch of Reach and ODST that if they say the pistol is returning, its just with a scope and wont be 3sk.

But you can’t say you would have Halo 4’s core gameplay be modeled out by Halo Reach’s mostly?? I’ll be even more happy if it is modeled after CE, but i said halo 3 because im guessing not a lot of the new fans that joined between halo 2 and halo 3 wouldn’t want that. Just as long as it isn’t similar to Halo Reach, and more similar to any of the original halo trilogy games i will finally be playing Halo again from night to sleep and it will be fun, it will be a tool to get together with people, and it will be great again.

+1 OP

Actually you know what?

+2 OP!

> > Before I go any farther, I would like to explain what Core Gameplay is… Core gameplay is what makes the raw gameplay of a game, from the instance the controller is in your hands and your shooting things in the face. Many things can make up core gameplay such as:
> > Armor Abilties
> > Perks
> > Aiming Down sights
> > Jump height
> > Melee lung
> > Arsenal of weapons
> > Bleedthrough
> > Gun Damage
> > Assassinations, and etc.
> >
> > It is NOT things like:
> > Playlists,
> > Gametypes,
> > Forge mode,
> > theater,
> > Ranking system, etc.
> >
> > Now onto my post…
> > I deeply hope with every ounce of my love for the halo series that halo 4 will be more similar, actually very similar to Halo 3’s gameplay. I’m not saying it should be Halo 3.5, I want a fresh Halo experience, but it wont even be a halo experience if the gameplay isn’t familar to the original halo titles. I just wish that with Halo Reach bungie didn’t try to change the core gameplay, but add to it.
> >
> > I certainly wish i could hop into Reach multiplayer and kill someone who had .1% of shields left with a melee attack.
> > I certainly wish that in Reach my banshee wouldn’t be wrecked by a sniper
> > I certainly wish that active camo and Overshields were powerups
> > I certainly wish people wouldn’t sprint away from me when they were losing a firefight against me
> > I certainly wish that grenades weren’t mini nukes, I certainly wish that their wasn’t fall damage or fall recovery(that things where your spartan absorbs shock when he falls a distance and can’t move)
> > I certainly wish I didn’t have to pace my shots, only to be killed by someone spamming the trigger
> > I certanily wish i could play invasion with Halo 3’s core gameplay,
> > I certainly wish I could play Firefight 2.0 with halo 3s core gameplay
> > i wish i could do forge 2.0 in halo 3
> > i wish equipment would be in reach as pick ups on maps that didn’t affect gameplay, instead of AA’s you spawn with and are unlimited
> > I wish i could do campaign matchmaking but with the core gameplay of halo 3
> > I wish i could drive the falcon w/ halo 3’s core gameplay, Oh how i wish i could dual wield in Reach.
> > I wish…
> >
> > Halo Reach had many cool features and cool new vehicles and sweet new weapons, awesome armorie items, and a good campaign. but the core gameplay really killed it for me, and I really hope they don’t do that with Halo 4 by making the choice to make it similar to Reach instead of Halo 3.
> >
> > Aside from that, i also hope they take out things like
> > -player acceleration
> > -and BR spread, or at least make it less of a spread.
> > But if they keep those in Halo 4 i won’t mind it too much, if it has the orignal core gameplay, or something similar to it, I will love it.
> >
> > Discuss.
>
> OH GOD, another one of these whiny posts, yes, lets make the banshee even more OP than it already is, and have no weapons damage it what so ever, if you want halo 3 gameplay go play halo 3. Over 200 thousand people play reach on a daily basis, and that number is GOING uP again. Maybe add the jump height and the bleed though from halo 3, but that’s -it-. Other than that halo 2 and 3 I felt like a fat panda bear rather than a spartan super soldier.
>
> The only reason i personally think sprint should be removed or nerfed (and you are talking about sprint right?) is because it increased the duration of firefights when an enemy sprints away from you when he is losing to you. that and it killed CQB weapons and they had to be nerfed. Sword got sword block, gravity hammer takes more time until you actual make impact unlike it did in H3, and Shotugn distance was decreased.
>
> and a banshee could easily be destroyed by a heavy weapon, if your playing on a balanced map it wont be hard to kill a bansee or a scorpion. plus, those are power vehicles, those are what people race for, not in Reach, they nerfed vehicle health on every vehicle. And what about mini nuke grenades? surely you want that gone.
>
> and a new game’s online players>an old game’s online players. even though mw2 is a lot better than Black ops, more people are on black ops. thats only because it’s what’s new and casual players tend to do that for some reason.

i agree OP, nice post

I’m actually hoping for a combination of both. For example, I like hitscan in Halo Reach, I wasn’t fond of the BR spread or bloom. I’m hoping for actual recoil instead of any form of spread, it takes more of the player’s skill to re-adjust his or her aim than having some random bullet spread that is beyond the player’s control. If you want a game that is more competitive, you need to give back the player the control we had in the first two games.

> I’m actually hoping for a combination of both. For example, I like hitscan in Halo Reach, I wasn’t fond of the BR spread or bloom. I’m hoping for actual recoil instead of any form of spread, it takes more of the player’s skill to re-adjust his or her aim than having some random bullet spread that is beyond the player’s control. If you want a game that is more competitive, you need to give back the player the control we had in the first two games.

hey i forgot they had hitscan in reach!

Yes, they do need hitscan to return,\

> I just wish that with Halo Reach bungie didn’t try to change the core gameplay, but add to it.

Adding something new may require a re-balancing of the core gameplay. When you add something, you change things. Know what I mean? I understand where you’re coming from, but what you’re asking is a difficult task. The balance in CE, at least to me, seems to be achieved partly due to the limited number of elements in the small sandbox. The more elements, the more difficult the balancing becomes.

I 100% agree with the OP. I also want Halo 3’s art style back too, because Reach was just ugly.

This is what I want for Halo 4, keep the awesome gameplay of previous games.

> I agree with you. i think lunge should be taken out completely, or at least more minimal than it was in previous halo games.
>
> But bleedthrough speeds up gameplay and makes it a lot more smooth.

I wouldn’t mind seeing lunge go as well - as I understand it, it was implemented for latency reasons, but I feel there’s a better way around that. But I couldn’t say for sure.

As for bleedthrough, the reason I say Reach’s system is better is consistency: that, and the pump-three-AR-rounds-melee zombie rush that seemed to account for most CQC kills was incredibly annoying. Though that, just like the equally annoying Reach double-pummel, can be solved by lowering melee damage. But back to consistency: in Halo 3, you didn’t always know when a melee was going to score a kill. It’s poor feedback. In Reach, you know exactly when a melee will score a kill (or a headshot, for that matter): when you see that static giveaway of a shieldless opponent. With 75% melee damage in Reach, melees are as effectively close to CE’s as you’re going to get. It’s clean, consistent, and makes your gun still useful in CQC.

> When you add something, you change things. Know what I mean? I understand where you’re coming from, but what you’re asking is a difficult task. The balance in CE, at least to me, seems to be achieved partly due to the limited number of elements in the small sandbox. The more elements, the more difficult the balancing becomes.

Exactly: more is not always better. One of the reasons why I loved CE so was that every weapon was useful - which is possible when the sandbox is relatively small. As soon as you start pouring in carbines, SMGs, spikers, needle rifles, etc., you come up with redundant or useless weapons. It’s assumed as a necessary thing in the game industry (and maybe it really is - I don’t know) that you always have to increase the amount of ‘stuff’ in sequels, but it doesn’t always provide an improved experience.

> > I agree with you. i think lunge should be taken out completely, or at least more minimal than it was in previous halo games.
> >
> > But bleedthrough speeds up gameplay and makes it a lot more smooth.
>
> I wouldn’t mind seeing lunge go as well - as I understand it, it was implemented for latency reasons, but I feel there’s a better way around that. But I couldn’t say for sure.
>
> As for bleedthrough, the reason I say Reach’s system is better is consistency: that, and the pump-three-AR-rounds-melee zombie rush that seemed to account for most CQC kills was incredibly annoying. Though that, just like the equally annoying Reach double-pummel, can be solved by lowering melee damage. But back to consistency: in Halo 3, you didn’t always know when a melee was going to score a kill. It’s poor feedback. In Reach, you know exactly when a melee will score a kill (or a headshot, for that matter): when you see that static giveaway of a shieldless opponent. With 75% melee damage in Reach, melees are as effectively close to CE’s as you’re going to get. It’s clean, consistent, and makes your gun still useful in CQC.
>
>
>
> > When you add something, you change things. Know what I mean? I understand where you’re coming from, but what you’re asking is a difficult task. The balance in CE, at least to me, seems to be achieved partly due to the limited number of elements in the small sandbox. The more elements, the more difficult the balancing becomes.
>
> Exactly: more is not always better. One of the reasons why I loved CE so was that every weapon was useful - which is possible when the sandbox is relatively small. As soon as you start pouring in carbines, SMGs, spikers, needle rifles, etc., you come up with redundant or useless weapons. It’s assumed as a necessary thing in the game industry (and maybe it really is - I don’t know) that you always have to increase the amount of ‘stuff’ in sequels, but it doesn’t always provide an improved experience.

This guy knows what he’s talking about