I agree!!! FINALLY. This post is all truth and if you disagree then you’re probably just a casual player that can’t see it but that’s Okays. And all of you yet to come up with somthing they added for competetive play. I have faith in Halo 4… But it’s dwindling
>
Great post im with you 100%
Long but, very well written
All we can dois hope that 343i has learned what NOT todo from past Halo’s
And makes HALO 4 perfect for every type of player
Here’s the thing about the 5sk BR, it is significantly easier to aim than the DMR or Carbine, making it more capable for the lesser skilled. Remember, most of Halo’s community isn’t exactly good at the game. What better weapon for the majority of the community to charge into battle with than the classic BR, the staple of the classic Halo? The good thing about splitting the precision sandbox is that competitive players and MLG won’t have the issue of getting around bloom (Because 343 can cater the DMR to more skilled players now), they can just say “Let’s use the DMR or Carbine”, which both have a faster killtime and a larger skill gap. This gives MLG a huge advantage since they can stick to the default version of the gun instead of having to alienate players with a Title Update like they had to with Reach. Although the BR should have a bigger clip since it takes more bullets to kill now.
As for maps, Longbow is a BTB map. If you remember Halo 3’s ranked BTB, you would see that BTB is more successful as a casual playlist than a competitive one, so of course the map will be built in that way. As for Adrift, it was also designed to be less competitve. I do agree that the maps should be a little smaller though.
You are forgetting the small game-play elements though. There appears to be less bullet magnetism and autoaim in the game, making the more accurate player win. The Sniper especially looks to be difficult to use. Movement speed, jump height, and shield recharge rate have also been buffed up, so that strafing and jumping is more effective and so that the gameplay is sped up. The Sword has been nerfed. The Sticky Detonator looks like it can dominate in the right hands.
As for the elements that you think are casual, I’ll answer those. Sprint has a slowdown mechanic to stop people from running away or double pummeling you (Bleed-through also helps with that).
Instant spawns force competitive players to step up their game in terms of controlling the map, making it more rewarding. They’re disabled in Objective gametypes for obvious reasons and may also be in just “Infinity Slayer”.
The point system allows for more fairer roles (The team player gets more credit) and is also in only one gametype.
The so-called random ordinance drop (not personal) requires players to control more of the map with their team. Picture this: on Countdown, the Sword and concussion rifle spawns on the top level, allowing for easy map control aside from the Shotgun, which really isn’t as hard to counter as the Sword, so the team has little incentive to move down. If the Sword spawned in the middle of the map instead, then the dominant team may move down for a bit. The other team can make a hard push and hrow the “not so dominant” team off guard and take control of them. In other words, it makes gameplay more dynamic as well as adding a larger skill gap.
The personal ordinance drops reward players for their individual skill if their team is sucking, giving them a bit more of an edge if they are good enough. 343 also said that you’re not going to get weapons like a Rocket Launcher from the drop, just mid-class weapons like the Sticky Detonator, the Needler, and the Scattershot (It’s getting nerfed). Once again, it’s only in “Infinity Slayer”.
I see no problem with allowing players to have more control over their playstyle via loadouts. Besides, the “perks” aren’t really gamebreaking. More ammo doesn’t do very much since you spawn with a lot anyway (I think about twice as many spare clips compared to Halo 3 with the BR). Radar when zoomed also isn’t a huge problem. The unlimited Sprint will really only be good for BTB since you get 7 seconds of Sprint normally and most likely you’ll have to stop and fight or do some other action so it recharges.
MLG actually wants a more balanced sandbox just to let you know, and the AR looks like burst firing is more effective now and may also have less magnetism.
The Plasma Pistol I agree should be removed from loadouts or nerfed in some way, although if it’s taken off loadouts, then it should be a personal ordinance drop weapon.
TLDR: Saying this game wasn’t designed with competitive players in mind is silly.
> > I disagree that it won’t be competitive, or its competitiveness is reduced. I look at some of the gameplay seen at RTX, as well as stories that came out. It seemed that more casual players pretty much got dominated by those who actually take the game seriously. Like the match between Roster Teeth team and those other Random Dudes. Pretty much one sided domination. And the matches between the MLG actually looked fair and competitive- no cheapness involved (beside Promethean Vision).
> >
> > Thats just an opinion though. We really won’t know until this game hits mass market. But the people playing it all seemed to have unanimous praise so optimism may not be unwarranted.
>
> Rooster Teeth may make a living on playing video games, but they are historically known for being terrible at video games.
>
> And we’ve only seen a few games so far and the people who played it only got to play a few games, I liked Reach the first game or two, then it got really old, really fast.
>
> And I can’t even fathom a competitive game that employs killstreaks. They really need to show off more gametypes because <mark>Infinity Slayer looks awful to almost any competitive player</mark>.
That sounds more like opinion than fact. Some of the competitive gamer vids posted on Youtube seemed to enjoy IS. Maybe its the case of just excitement of playing a new Halo game, maybe it isn’t.
But the fact that Competitves (MLG) and casuals (Rooster Teeth) both had praise for this game warrants optimism in my opinion. Both were able to play and enjoy the game, especially when faced with opponents on your skill level (the MLG matches, Rooster Teeth VS Girls). And when Rooster Teeth faced those guys who seemed more competition oriented, they got obliterated.
It was just a few matches yes, but from the few we have seen so far seems to point to 343 maybe finding some sort of balance.
> >
>
> Great post im with you 100%
>
> Long but, very well written
> All we can dois hope that 343i has learned what NOT todo from past Halo’s
>
> And makes HALO 4 perfect for every type of player
I would have to agree, after playing it at RTX it feels like they took all the good ideas in reach. and executed them perfectly. Aslo bringing back some H3 elements like movement and such. Also, surprisingly EVERYTHING seemed balanced. If I’m repeating what he said I’m sorry i didn’t read OP yet but I’m about to
> >
>
> Great post im with you 100%
>
> Long but, very well written
> All we can dois hope that 343i has learned what NOT todo from past Halo’s
>
> <mark>And makes HALO 4 perfect for every type of player</mark>
EXACTLY.
A lot of people don’t realize that the majority of competitive players don’t want a highly competitive game that isn’t fun unless you are really good at it, we want a game that has some competitive-ness while still having all of the fun gametypes and additions that the casual community has come to love.
A balanced sandbox, quality maps, good ranking system, solid playlist selection, and lack of gimmicks (at least in some playlists) can make this game good for EVERYONE.
> > >
> >
> > Great post im with you 100%
> >
> > Long but, very well written
> > All we can dois hope that 343i has learned what NOT todo from past Halo’s
> >
> > <mark>And makes HALO 4 perfect for every type of player</mark>
>
> EXACTLY.
>
> A lot of people don’t realize that the majority of competitive players don’t want a highly competitive game that isn’t fun unless you are really good at it, we want a game that has some competitive-ness while still having all of the fun gametypes and additions that the casual community has come to love.
>
> A balanced sandbox, quality maps, good ranking system, solid playlist selection, and lack of gimmicks (at least in some playlists) can make this game good for EVERYONE.
I agree… But at RTX I was talking to just about everyone in line (a mix of casuals and competitives) and both seemed overly satisfied after. and when I played, It was great, i mean everything seems too good to be true. And sure people can complain about how Infinity is tailored to casuals but it doesn’t seem that way. No matter what I picked in my load out, nothing really seemed to tip the balance other that range, skill, tactics, and play style. I also found myself and others not relying on AAs, but rather just using them for slight assistance
> Here’s the thing about the 5sk BR, it is significantly easier to aim than the DMR or Carbine, making it more capable for the lesser skilled. Remember, most of Halo’s community isn’t exactly good at the game. What better weapon for the majority of the community to charge into battle with than the classic BR, the staple of the classic Halo? The good thing about splitting the precision sandbox is that competitive players and MLG won’t have the issue of getting around bloom (Because 343 can cater the DMR to more skilled players now), they can just say “Let’s use the DMR or Carbine”, which both have a faster killtime and a larger skill gap. This gives MLG a huge advantage since they can stick to the default version of the gun instead of having to alienate players with a Title Update like they had to with Reach. Although the BR should have a bigger clip since it takes more bullets to kill now.
But the thing about the BR is it isn’t “just a 5sk” its a 15sk. You need to hit EVERY SINGLE bullet in every burst to kill someone, if you miss one, you are down to a 6sk which is over a 2 second kill time. If you miss one Carbine shot, you’d STILL kill someone faster than the best BR shot in the world.
> You are forgetting the small game-play elements though. There appears to be less bullet magnetism and autoaim in the game, making the more accurate player win. The Sniper especially looks to be difficult to use. Movement speed, jump height, and shield recharge rate have also been buffed up, so that strafing and jumping is more effective and so that the gameplay is sped up. The Sword has been nerfed. The Sticky Detonator looks like it can dominate in the right hands.
Those aren’t competitive aspects, they are obvious one’s and I am glad that most of them have been implemented.
> As for the elements that you think are casual, I’ll answer those. Sprint has a slowdown mechanic to stop people from running away or double pummeling you (Bleed-through also helps with that).
I am actually OK with Sprint, I think that it will be implemented correctly, there are bigger problems I have.
> Instant spawns force competitive players to step up their game in terms of controlling the map, making it more rewarding. They’re disabled in Objective gametypes for obvious reasons and may also be in just “Infinity Slayer”.
Yes but how will Infinty Slayer itself be implented? Will it be in all playlists? Will it have its own? 'Cause I sure as hell don’t want to be forced into a game of IS.
> The point system allows for more fairer roles (The team player gets more credit) and is also in only one gametype.
I didn’t mention that at all in my OP. I really don’t have a problem with IS as long as I’m not forced to play it.
> The so-called random ordinance drop (not personal) requires players to control more of the map with their team. Picture this: on Countdown, the Sword and concussion rifle spawns on the top level, allowing for easy map control aside from the Shotgun, which really isn’t as hard to counter as the Sword, so the team has little incentive to move down. If the Sword spawned in the middle of the map instead, then the dominant team may move down for a bit. The other team can make a hard push and hrow the “not so dominant” team off guard and take control of them. In other words, it makes gameplay more dynamic as well as adding a larger skill gap.
When all weapons have a big -Yoink- indicator that shows everyone where they spawn, I don’t think that adds a skill gap. Maybe a blind person gap, but I digress.
> The personal ordinance drops reward players for their individual skill if their team is sucking, giving them a bit more of an edge if they are good enough. 343 also said that you’re not going to get weapons like a Rocket Launcher from the drop, just mid-class weapons like the Sticky Detonator, the Needler, and the Scattershot (It’s getting nerfed). Once again, it’s only in “Infinity Slayer”.
Once again I don’t care about Infinity Slayer.
> I see no problem with allowing players to have more control over their playstyle via loadouts. Besides, the “perks” aren’t really gamebreaking. More ammo doesn’t do very much since you spawn with a lot anyway (I think about twice as many spare clips compared to Halo 3 with the BR). Radar when zoomed also isn’t a huge problem. The unlimited Sprint will really only be good for BTB since you get 7 seconds of Sprint normally and most likely you’ll have to stop and fight or do some other action so it recharges.
Halo is an Arena shooter and part of what makes it so good is that everyone spawns on a level playing field. With things like “Perks” that is thrown out the window.
> MLG actually wants a more balanced sandbox just to let you know, and the AR looks like burst firing is more effective now and may also have less magnetism.
Meh, I’m pretty sure not many people will spawn with it anyway.
> The Plasma Pistol I agree should be removed from loadouts or nerfed in some way, although if it’s taken off loadouts, then it should be a personal ordinance drop weapon.
Or made as a weapon that spawns on a map. I know that’s a strange concept, right? It hasn’t worked fine for 11 ears or anything.
> TLDR: Saying this game wasn’t designed with competitive players in mind is silly.
I read your whole comment but remain unconvinced. What of the ranking system? What of the Maps? What of the AA’s, Perks, etc.?
> > Good post. And thanks for posting.
> >
> > Still, you are wrong. It still competitive; not like Halo 2, but much more competitive than Reach, an even more than Halo 3, at least in the sandbox balance.
>
> Just out of curiosity, how do you think this?
>
> Can you please elaborate? I would really like another opinion on this, because I don’t see how this game will be competitive at all.
>
> And I appreciate your polite manner. It is hard to come by around here.
Well.
First, Halo 3, people forgot that the sandbox wasn’t balanced at all, if you didn’t have a precision weapon, you were somewhat defenseless (except a close range, due bleedthrough the AR + melee) if you didn’t have the BR or at least the Carbine, you feel yourself in disadvantage, you have always a precise weapon, like secundary or primary, but one of your objetives when you spawned was get a precise weapon or you could be die without giving a fight.
Reach… I suppouse I have nothing to explain to said here. Vanilla Reach =/= competitive, really. The new stuff wasn’t implemented correctly. Jetpack broke map flow, too slow moving, too low jumping, too long kill times, the grenades were too powerful (really? Nuke grenades in the slowest Halo?), not to mention Armor Lock… or how the bloom, acted more like a “skill handicap”, giving spammers the chance of killing one that paced their shots.
What we know so far about Halo 4? All the weapons work and work like they’re suppoused to at the specific distance they should.
When the AR is suppoused to be better, it is better.
When the DMR is suppoused to be better, it is.
The BR is a bit weak, but that is just fine, for what we have seen if you are skilled one you can get kill fairly easy, not as incredible easy as Halo 3. But in accordance to the balance the Halo 4 sandbox have.
The armor abilities so far, are balanced, yes, they need to do some changes to PV, but if 343i is really listening as they said, that shouldn’t be an issue at launch.
Perhaps, map control is somewhat gone, due to random ordnance, but now, the game will be more tactical than strategy.
Now you have to take decision on the fly, go or not to the power weapon, or even better, let the other team get the power weapon first, so you can take him down, without having to “fight” with the rest of the people that came for the power weapon when they saw the saw the indicator of it.
The ordnance itself, didn’t feel or look at all like killstreaks. Is mix of different things.
One: You get it by points, not only kills. You don’t lose it after death. You can see newbies calling their ordnance in middle of fight; you get him down and take the power weapon for free.
Two: The ordnance isn’t decided by you. Is somewhat random, and you choose of the options.
Three: Every ordance require more points than the last. Bs angel has said that normally you only call 1-2 ordnance, good player 3.
If with a team, you can coordinate the ordnance, using it at the best, if you have the option of sniper, but you’re not good at all in it, you can call a friend an give him the ordnance, if personal ordance is active in objetive, you could call an overshield or speed boost in front of the flag carrier.
The upgrates and tactical packages, are very little but useful modifications. You are aiming a guy too far away with the sniper that the reticle isn’t red, use it, and no problem.
The Loadout system look like it will work very well.
And the maps, very important, look like they’re designed to give the best experience for the Halo 4 gameplay.
Unlike Reach, they have remakes from past Halo’s that were planned to play at “old school” way, not with the Reach like gameplay.
> > > I disagree that it won’t be competitive, or its competitiveness is reduced. I look at some of the gameplay seen at RTX, as well as stories that came out. It seemed that more casual players pretty much got dominated by those who actually take the game seriously. Like the match between Roster Teeth team and those other Random Dudes. Pretty much one sided domination. And the matches between the MLG actually looked fair and competitive- no cheapness involved (beside Promethean Vision).
> > >
> > > Thats just an opinion though. We really won’t know until this game hits mass market. But the people playing it all seemed to have unanimous praise so optimism may not be unwarranted.
> >
> > Rooster Teeth may make a living on playing video games, but they are historically known for being terrible at video games.
> >
> > And we’ve only seen a few games so far and the people who played it only got to play a few games, I liked Reach the first game or two, then it got really old, really fast.
> >
> > And I can’t even fathom a competitive game that employs killstreaks. They really need to show off more gametypes because <mark>Infinity Slayer looks awful to almost any competitive player</mark>.
>
> That sounds more like opinion than fact. Some of the competitive gamer vids posted on Youtube seemed to enjoy IS. Maybe its the case of just excitement of playing a new Halo game, maybe it isn’t.
>
> But the fact that Competitves (MLG) and casuals (Rooster Teeth) both had praise for this game warrants optimism in my opinion. Both were able to play and enjoy the game, especially when faced with opponents on your skill level (the MLG matches, Rooster Teeth VS Girls). And when Rooster Teeth faced those guys who seemed more competition oriented, they got obliterated.
>
> It was just a few matches yes, but from the few we have seen so far seems to point to 343 maybe finding some sort of balance.
OKAY, I need to clarify something. Ordnance act differently than killstreaks from CoD. Actually, how you get them is not from kills. It is from points. okay? I was driving a warthog and my gunner got about 5-6 kills and I got an ordnance.
killstreaks give you overpowered advantages in the game
ordnance gives you a choice of a better weapon, a power up, or more grenades. (that does not alter the game that much) also, because they aren’t that hard to get, you seem both teams get near the same amount of ordnance drops each time.
> OKAY, I need to clarify something. <mark>Ordnance act differently than killstreaks from CoD. Actually, how you get them is not from kills. It is from points.</mark> okay? I was driving a warthog and my gunner got about 5-6 kills and I got an ordnance.
> killstreaks give you overpowered advantages in the game
> ordnance gives you a choice of a better weapon, a power up, or more grenades. (that does not alter the game that much) also, because they aren’t that hard to get, you seem both teams get near the same amount of ordnance drops each time.
Uh, I know. I was just stating my opinion that this game may very well find a balance between casuals and competitives. I have no problem with Ordinance.
> > > Good post. And thanks for posting.
> > >
> > > Still, you are wrong. It still competitive; not like Halo 2, but much more competitive than Reach, an even more than Halo 3, at least in the sandbox balance.
> >
> > Just out of curiosity, how do you think this?
> >
> > Can you please elaborate? I would really like another opinion on this, because I don’t see how this game will be competitive at all.
> >
> > And I appreciate your polite manner. It is hard to come by around here.
>
> Well.
> First, Halo 3, people forgot that the sandbox wasn’t balanced at all, if you didn’t have a precision weapon, you were somewhat defenseless (except a close range, due bleedthrough the AR + melee) if you didn’t have the BR or at least the Carbine, you feel yourself in disadvantage, you have always a precise weapon, like secundary or primary, but one of your objetives when you spawned was get a precise weapon or you could be die without giving a fight.
>
> Reach… I suppouse I have nothing to explain to said here. Vanilla Reach =/= competitive, really. The new stuff wasn’t implemented correctly. Jetpack broke map flow, too slow moving, too low jumping, too long kill times, the grenades were too powerful (really? Nuke grenades in the slowest Halo?), not to mention Armor Lock… or how the bloom, acted more like a “skill handicap”, giving spammers the chance of killing one that paced their shots.
>
> What we know so far about Halo 4? All the weapons work and work like they’re suppoused to at the specific distance they should.
>
> When the AR is suppoused to be better, it is better.
> When the DMR is suppoused to be better, it is.
> The BR is a bit weak, but that is just fine, for what we have seen if you are skilled one you can get kill fairly easy, not as incredible easy as Halo 3. But in accordance to the balance the Halo 4 sandbox have.
>
> The armor abilities so far, are balanced, yes, they need to do some changes to PV, but if 343i is really listening as they said, that shouldn’t be an issue at launch.
>
> Perhaps, map control is somewhat gone, due to random ordnance, but now, the game will be more tactical than strategy.
>
> Now you have to take decision on the fly, go or not to the power weapon, or even better, let the other team get the power weapon first, so you can take him down, without having to “fight” with the rest of the people that came for the power weapon when they saw the saw the indicator of it.
>
> The ordnance itself, didn’t feel or look at all like killstreaks. Is mix of different things.
>
> One: You get it by points, not only kills. You don’t lose it after death. You can see newbies calling their ordnance in middle of fight; you get him down and take the power weapon for free.
> Two: The ordnance isn’t decided by you. Is somewhat random, and you choose of the options.
> Three: Every ordance require more points than the last. Bs angel has said that normally you only call 1-2 ordnance, good player 3.
>
> If with a team, you can coordinate the ordnance, using it at the best, if you have the option of sniper, but you’re not good at all in it, you can call a friend an give him the ordnance, if personal ordance is active in objetive, you could call an overshield or speed boost in front of the flag carrier.
>
> The upgrates and tactical packages, are very little but useful modifications. You are aiming a guy too far away with the sniper that the reticle isn’t red, use it, and no problem.
>
> The Loadout system look like it will work very well.
>
> And the maps, very important, look like they’re designed to give the best experience for the Halo 4 gameplay.
>
> Unlike Reach, they have remakes from past Halo’s that were planned to play at “old school” way, not with the Reach like gameplay.
Im not sure if either of you guys have. But as for me, I have played Halo 4, and I side with Noble Dragons argument as his opinions comes off more as my reaction to Halo 4. and Im a pretty competitive player.
> > OKAY, I need to clarify something. <mark>Ordnance act differently than killstreaks from CoD. Actually, how you get them is not from kills. It is from points.</mark> okay? I was driving a warthog and my gunner got about 5-6 kills and I got an ordnance.
> > killstreaks give you overpowered advantages in the game
> > ordnance gives you a choice of a better weapon, a power up, or more grenades. (that does not alter the game that much) also, because they aren’t that hard to get, you seem both teams get near the same amount of ordnance drops each time.
>
> Uh, I know. I was just stating my opinion that this game may very well find a balance between casuals and competitives. I have no problem with Ordinance.
yeah, Its just I’m fed up with people calling them killstreaks, cause they aren’t. and the word killstreak reminds me of bombers and choppers coming in like CoD,
And yes it DOES find a good balance. ITS is both fun and very competitive, as you are always trying to build up to the next ordnance to get a slight edge on your enemy
And FYI, my post was directed towards the guy you are arguing with
> Well.
> First, Halo 3, people forgot that the sandbox wasn’t balanced at all, if you didn’t have a precision weapon, you were somewhat defenseless (except a close range, due bleedthrough the AR + melee) if you didn’t have the BR or at least the Carbine, you feel yourself in disadvantage, you have always a precise weapon, like secundary or primary, but one of your objetives when you spawned was get a precise weapon or you could be die without giving a fight.
I remember Halo 3’s broken sandbox, but overall it was still a competitive game.
> Reach… I suppouse I have nothing to explain to said here. Vanilla Reach =/= competitive, really. The new stuff wasn’t implemented correctly. Jetpack broke map flow, too slow moving, too low jumping, too long kill times, the grenades were too powerful (really? Nuke grenades in the slowest Halo?), not to mention Armor Lock… or how the bloom, acted more like a “skill handicap”, giving spammers the chance of killing one that paced their shots.
I think we are all aware of the problems Reach had. I still can’t understand how they managed to do almost everything wrong they possibly could.
> What we know so far about Halo 4? All the weapons work and work like they’re suppoused to at the specific distance they should.
>
> When the AR is suppoused to be better, it is better.
> When the DMR is suppoused to be better, it is.
> The BR is a bit weak, but that is just fine, for what we have seen if you are skilled one you can get kill fairly easy, not as incredible easy as Halo 3. But in accordance to the balance the Halo 4 sandbox have.
I’d still like to see the BR bumped up at least a little bit. Or make it a 4sk but nerf the fire rate a bit.
> The armor abilities so far, are balanced, yes, they need to do some changes to PV, but if 343i is really listening as they said, that shouldn’t be an issue at launch.
As long as AL, Camo, and Jetpack stay dead and PV is nerfed I think it COULD be alright.
> Perhaps, map control is somewhat gone, due to random ordnance, but now, the game will be more tactical than strategy.
But is that a good thing?
Strategic gameplay was one of the most IMPORTANT aspects to competitive Halo.
> Now you have to take decision on the fly, go or not to the power weapon, or even better, let the other team get the power weapon first, so you can take him down, without having to “fight” with the rest of the people that came for the power weapon when they saw the saw the indicator of it.
That indicator really bugs me. So much for memorizing spawn zones and spawn times, Its right -Yoinking!- here.
> The ordnance itself, didn’t feel or look at all like killstreaks. Is mix of different things.
>
> One: You get it by points, not only kills. You don’t lose it after death. You can see newbies calling their ordnance in middle of fight; you get him down and take the power weapon for free.
> Two: The ordnance isn’t decided by you. Is somewhat random, and you choose of the options.
> Three: Every ordance require more points than the last. Bs angel has said that normally you only call 1-2 ordnance, good player 3.
- Like MW3’s Killstreaks.
- Oooh more randomness, just what we needed. Why don’t we just bring back bloom and call it a day?
- I really don’t care about Infinity Slayer, as long as I’m not forced to play it.
> If with a team, you can coordinate the ordnance, using it at the best, if you have the option of sniper, but you’re not good at all in it, you can call a friend an give him the ordnance, if personal ordance is active in objetive, you could call an overshield or speed boost in front of the flag carrier.
As opposed to past Halos where you could just give them the Sniper.
But once again, I really don’t care about Infinity Slayer.
> The upgrates and tactical packages, are very little but useful modifications. You are aiming a guy too far away with the sniper that the reticle isn’t red, use it, and no problem.
I reeeeally hate these new perks. Like the shield one. Say you and I get into a gunfight. We take out eachothers shields and hide for a second. You have the shield thing on so your shields recharge faster. You can just pop out and one shot me. While I have to deal with your full shields.
> The Loadout system look like it will work very well.
Yeah, so much for that “Level playing field” thing.
> And the maps, very important, look like they’re designed to give the best experience for the Halo 4 gameplay.
Yup, also known as “non-competitive gameplay”.
> Unlike Reach, they have remakes from past Halo’s that were planned to play at “old school” way, not with the Reach like gameplay.
Really? Where did you hear this? If that’s true then this playlist may not be so bad. But still, they better not be grey…
> > Here’s the thing about the 5sk BR, it is significantly easier to aim than the DMR or Carbine, making it more capable for the lesser skilled. Remember, most of Halo’s community isn’t exactly good at the game. What better weapon for the majority of the community to charge into battle with than the classic BR, the staple of the classic Halo? The good thing about splitting the precision sandbox is that competitive players and MLG won’t have the issue of getting around bloom (Because 343 can cater the DMR to more skilled players now), they can just say “Let’s use the DMR or Carbine”, which both have a faster killtime and a larger skill gap. This gives MLG a huge advantage since they can stick to the default version of the gun instead of having to alienate players with a Title Update like they had to with Reach. Although the BR should have a bigger clip since it takes more bullets to kill now.
>
> But the thing about the BR is it isn’t “just a 5sk” its a 15sk. You need to hit EVERY SINGLE bullet in every burst to kill someone, if you miss one, you are down to a 6sk which is over a 2 second kill time. If you miss one Carbine shot, you’d STILL kill someone faster than the best BR shot in the world.
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> > You are forgetting the small game-play elements though. There appears to be less bullet magnetism and autoaim in the game, making the more accurate player win. The Sniper especially looks to be difficult to use. Movement speed, jump height, and shield recharge rate have also been buffed up, so that strafing and jumping is more effective and so that the gameplay is sped up. The Sword has been nerfed. The Sticky Detonator looks like it can dominate in the right hands.
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> Those aren’t competitive aspects, they are obvious one’s and I am glad that most of them have been implemented.
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> > As for the elements that you think are casual, I’ll answer those. Sprint has a slowdown mechanic to stop people from running away or double pummeling you (Bleed-through also helps with that).
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> I am actually OK with Sprint, I think that it will be implemented correctly, there are bigger problems I have.
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> > Instant spawns force competitive players to step up their game in terms of controlling the map, making it more rewarding. They’re disabled in Objective gametypes for obvious reasons and may also be in just “Infinity Slayer”.
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> Yes but how will Infinty Slayer itself be implented? Will it be in all playlists? Will it have its own? 'Cause I sure as hell don’t want to be forced into a game of IS.
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> > The point system allows for more fairer roles (The team player gets more credit) and is also in only one gametype.
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> I didn’t mention that at all in my OP. I really don’t have a problem with IS as long as I’m not forced to play it.
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> > The so-called random ordinance drop (not personal) requires players to control more of the map with their team. Picture this: on Countdown, the Sword and concussion rifle spawns on the top level, allowing for easy map control aside from the Shotgun, which really isn’t as hard to counter as the Sword, so the team has little incentive to move down. If the Sword spawned in the middle of the map instead, then the dominant team may move down for a bit. The other team can make a hard push and hrow the “not so dominant” team off guard and take control of them. In other words, it makes gameplay more dynamic as well as adding a larger skill gap.
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> When all weapons have a big -Yoink!- indicator that shows everyone where they spawn, I don’t think that adds a skill gap. Maybe a blind person gap, but I digress.
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> > The personal ordinance drops reward players for their individual skill if their team is sucking, giving them a bit more of an edge if they are good enough. 343 also said that you’re not going to get weapons like a Rocket Launcher from the drop, just mid-class weapons like the Sticky Detonator, the Needler, and the Scattershot (It’s getting nerfed). Once again, it’s only in “Infinity Slayer”.
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> Once again I don’t care about Infinity Slayer.
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> > I see no problem with allowing players to have more control over their playstyle via loadouts. Besides, the “perks” aren’t really gamebreaking. More ammo doesn’t do very much since you spawn with a lot anyway (I think about twice as many spare clips compared to Halo 3 with the BR). Radar when zoomed also isn’t a huge problem. The unlimited Sprint will really only be good for BTB since you get 7 seconds of Sprint normally and most likely you’ll have to stop and fight or do some other action so it recharges.
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> Halo is an Arena shooter and part of what makes it so good is that everyone spawns on a level playing field. With things like “Perks” that is thrown out the window.
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> > MLG actually wants a more balanced sandbox just to let you know, and the AR looks like burst firing is more effective now and may also have less magnetism.
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> Meh, I’m pretty sure not many people will spawn with it anyway.
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> > The Plasma Pistol I agree should be removed from loadouts or nerfed in some way, although if it’s taken off loadouts, then it should be a personal ordinance drop weapon.
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> Or made as a weapon that spawns on a map. I know that’s a strange concept, right? It hasn’t worked fine for 11 ears or anything.
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> > TLDR: Saying this game wasn’t designed with competitive players in mind is silly.
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> I read your whole comment but remain unconvinced. What of the ranking system? What of the Maps? What of the AA’s, Perks, etc.?
So what makes a game competitive is the ranking system, the maps, the AA’s and Perks? Obviously you haven’t seen the gameplay videos or read a comment from someone that played the game at RTX. The “Perks” are subtle at best and slightly alter gameplay, the way that you’re responding makes it seem like people are going to be able take 2 rockets point blank, multiple shotgun blasts and a plasma grenade without even losing their shields. The Game is aimed for both Casuals and Competitive players, not either or. You go on and on about how you don’t want to play infinity slayer, well guess what -Yoink-?! it’s a separate playlist then regular slayer. It seems like most people that came from Halo 2 and 3 that call themselves the “true” halo competitive community feel that the BR should dominate when it really shouldn’t. People that have played the game have stated that the BR can beat the DMR and Carbine in CQC and when it comes to Mid-Range it becomes more about skill, i get tired of reading nothing but Bitchy complaints about how the BR is underpowered when you have people that have played the game and said that it is a monster, yet people like you ignore those posts and keep spreading these false claims that it’s practically useless.
DON’T TALK ABOUT HOW A GAME PLAYS LIKE THEY’RE FACT UNLESS YOU ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT
> > > OKAY, I need to clarify something. <mark>Ordnance act differently than killstreaks from CoD. Actually, how you get them is not from kills. It is from points.</mark> okay? I was driving a warthog and my gunner got about 5-6 kills and I got an ordnance.
> > > killstreaks give you overpowered advantages in the game
> > > ordnance gives you a choice of a better weapon, a power up, or more grenades. (that does not alter the game that much) also, because they aren’t that hard to get, you seem both teams get near the same amount of ordnance drops each time.
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> > Uh, I know. I was just stating my opinion that this game may very well find a balance between casuals and competitives. I have no problem with Ordinance.
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> yeah, Its just I’m fed up with people calling them killstreaks, cause they aren’t. and the word killstreak reminds me of bombers and choppers coming in like CoD,
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> And yes it DOES find a good balance. ITS is both fun and very competitive, as you are always trying to build up to the next ordnance to get a slight edge on your enemy
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> And FYI, my post was directed towards the guy you are arguing with
But they still are Killstreaks. In MW3, you don’t need kills, you can just get points. It doesn’t have to be a “Streak” you can die. And you don’t always call in an OP Helicopter or something, you can call in extra shielding, and things like that.
Now how is that different from Halo 4’s ordinance? Killstreaks are just the popularized term for something like this. Stop arguing about semantics, it will get you nowhere.
And this has nothing to do with this thread I purposely left out things that are solely in Infinity Slayer, because they don’t affect the whole game.
Oh boy, angry wall of text INCOMING.
“Red alert, we have a raging fanboy on the loose.”
> So what makes a game competitive is the ranking system, the maps, the AA’s and Perks?
Among other things, but for the most part, yes.
> Obviously you haven’t seen the gameplay videos or read a comment from someone that played the game at RTX.
I have.
> The “Perks” are subtle at best and slightly alter gameplay, the way that you’re responding makes it seem like people are going to be able take 2 rockets point blank, multiple shotgun blasts and a plasma grenade without even losing their shields.
I have not once even implied that they will alter gameplay any more than a slight annoyance and maybe an unfair kill every now and then. They still affect the balance of the game and don’t belong in Halo.
> The Game is aimed for both Casuals and Competitive players, not either or
Is it really? If you say so. I know that your word is final and everything you say is automatically right.
> You go on and on about how you don’t want to play infinity slayer, well guess what -Yoink!-?! it’s a separate playlist then regular slayer.
Thank god. And is it really necessary to disrupt this civil conversation with vulgarities and name-calling?
> It seems like most people that came from Halo 2 and 3 that call themselves the “true” halo competitive community feel that the BR should dominate when it really shouldn’t.
Once again, you know everything oh wise one. Except how to make paragraphs.
> People that have played the game have stated that the BR can beat the DMR and Carbine in CQC and when it comes to Mid-Range it becomes more about skill, i get tired of reading nothing but -Yoink!- complaints about how the BR is underpowered when you have people that have played the game and said that it is a monster, yet people like you ignore those posts and keep spreading these false claims that it’s practically useless.
Facts are facts kid. 5sk and a 1.83 kill time don’t lie. And yes, the BR wins at CQC AS IT SHOULD.
> DON’T TALK ABOUT HOW A GAME PLAYS LIKE THEY’RE FACT UNLESS YOU ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT
I toned that down a little bit. It seems a little more your size now.
And I am not trying to say I know how the game plays, nor have I ever. I am simply giving my educated assumption based on all of the information I have gathered thus far of the game and have come to the conclusion that 343 has forgotten about, or at least didn’t pay enough attention to, the competitive community.
But seriously, PARAGRAPHS. They can make even the most incoherent rambler such as yourself at least somewhat legible.
> > Unlike Reach, they have remakes from past Halo’s that were planned to play at “old school” way, not with the Reach like gameplay.
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> Really? Where did you hear this? If that’s true then this playlist may not be so bad. But still, they better not be grey…
I think you misunderstood me. I meant that in Reach we have remakes from the past Halo’s but those maps were planned to play at the “classic” way, not with the Reach gameplay, and the maps ended beign somewhat forced by Bungie to fit in the Reach, not so good, gameplay.
If you did understood me at first (I leave the original text very ambiguous) then ignore the previus statement.
Deduction. With 343i trying to own the design of the things(weapon, armor, sounds, etc), unless they have the guy who did “x” in the previous Halo, they change it, and make it “original”.
I hardly see any remake in Halo 4. A spiritual succesor? Likely, but twisted enough to be “their own thing”.
That, and we have seen many many remakes already, it could be like “what? again this map? This map is never going to die?”
For example; for me, Haven feel like a spiritual succesor of Narrows, and with a very little of Guardian in the mix.
this thread has officially went down the drain, hopefully someone will close it.
Well this is fun .
And as long as Halo 4 is BETTER THEN REACH IN EVERY WAY POSSIBLE
FOR COMPETITIVE AND CASUAL
AS IM A LITTLE OF BOTH