Halo 4 A different halo not an easier one.

Games Other Halo
#1

Discuss? Personally I think most peoples issues resolve around the fact that the new elements add much more to the table then traditional halo did. In halo 1-3 It was simple…Control power weapons and who ever shoots more accurate wins.

But with halo 4 It brings more to the table. Now you have to know more things on top of controlling the map/power weapons. Let me give an example.

Let’s say you are playing heaven. If it was a map in 1-3 you would run top middle for rockets and hold that spawn for the game win. All you as a player had to worry about was where the enemy was and making sure you could strafe/4sk.

But halo 4’s haven not only must you control rockets But knowing the map you must account for what loadouts would work best and try to compensate VIA your own loadout or thinking ahead.

Pretty much everything added can be countered in one shape or form. But instead of it entirely based upon you and your controller you now have to know the map and the loadouts that work the best for the map. Along with typical strats. I’m rambling. i’ll try and make it short and sweet.

Halo is not simple or cut and dry anymore. A player has to think about much more and in some cases much quicker then before. So perhaps to me this is why people have an issue with halo 4. It’s not as simple as dancing better anymore. encounters are now more dynamic. There is essentially a bigger game at play.

People loved halo’s simplicity and halo 4 seems to take away from that. But IMO it returns with much more depth to combat.

#2

Unfortunately, Waypoint doesn’t give you the option for a monospaced font, so if the following looks funky, I hope I at least get the point across.

I will draw a line that represents the skill of all players, from lesser skill (left) to greater skill (right). For the sake of argument, we will assume that “you” are a player of absolute median skill, and all other players are either better or worse than you.

In previous Halo games (or Halo 4 Legendary settings), there are no outside influences (except lag, of course) or unpredictable variables that could influence a game. Every player has the same starting weapons and abilities, and everyone can know what weapons are available on the map, where they are, how many there are, how many shots those weapons have, and how long it takes for those weapons to respawn after picked up. The only unpredictability comes from the players’ skills in movement, aiming, and strategy. In this type of game, here are the players you will run into:

> Players who you will consistently beat
> ____v
> |-----------|-----------|
> _____________^
> Players who will consistently beat you

Now let’s take the same gametype and add in unpredictable abilities and random power weapons. The line looks more like this:

> Players who you will consistently beat
> ___v
> |--------|------|--------|
> _________^
> Players who you consistently may or may not beat depending on appropriateness of loadouts and power weapons
> _______________^
> Players who will consistently beat you

As you can see, for players who are close to your skill, who wins is a toss-up; it is very possible (and likely) that the final outcome will be based on the fact that one player used Promethean Vision instead of Jet Pack, or Sensor instead of Awareness. Thus, to say that Halo 4 is “easier” or “harder” would be imprecise. The real difference between Infinity and previous Halo games is that random chance Ordnance and Rock-Paper-Scissors loadouts are now factors in engagements. Thus, the determining factor in some outcomes will have been the odds rather than the players themselves (this is the definition of a “lower skill gap,” but it does not mean it is “easier”). I prefer games where it is only the players, never a lucky card draw, that determines win or lose.

#3

Too put it simply Halo 4’s Infinity settings are completely random and based on luck. Games are decided by players getting rockets from P.O and which team was closer to a random ordnance that spawned a sniper. On top of that shooting in Halo 4 is ridiculously easy.There is literally no reason for even beginner players to not four shot someone with BR everytime as it is so easy to use. Although this was improved by the weapon tuning update improving the BR, the DMR in early Halo 4 completely ruined the game.Both me and my guests who don’t own an Xbox could sit top middle on Valhalla and 5 shot people spawning in the base.

You mention the loadout system adding an extra dimension to the game, but I don’t really see it that way. This isn’t like COD in which players are going to be using a wide variety of weapons - 95% of people before the tuning used the DMR and 95% after it used the BR. At least in an actual class based shooter like COD I can be using an AR and dominate SMG players at long ranges. In H4, the loadout system is only really useful for allowing players to exploit certain weapons or abilities, such as spawning with Plasmas, Camo and a Boltshot. Of course, the issues of sprint and AA’s also have a huge impact but I’m not going to go into detail on these.

Don’t get me wrong, I understand what you mean in terms of H4 bringing an extra dimension to the Halo series, but I feel these new elements are a big downgrade from what we had in the past. Can anyone here honestly say Halo 4 has the same level of skill gap as Halo 1-3?

#4

as others have said, its really rock, paper, scissors online. to me thats not even the worst part. the incredibly high aim assist and bullet magnetism alone makes this game much easier than prior games.

#5

> as others have said, its really rock, paper, scissors online. to me thats not even the worst part. the incredibly high aim assist and bullet magnetism alone makes this game much easier than prior games.

Halo 2 had more aim assist and bullet magnetism.

#6

> > as others have said, its really rock, paper, scissors online. to me thats not even the worst part. the incredibly high aim assist and bullet magnetism alone makes this game much easier than prior games.
>
> Halo 2 had more aim assist and bullet magnetism.

its been so long since i played halo 2 mm i really dont remember if thats true or not. im leaning toward not. however i do know that in halo 4 if i shoot a guy in the chest its at least a 50/50 shot at being called a headshot. swat is terrible in this game.

#7

Yeah, no. More complex =/= more difficult.

I’m tired of hearing people talk about the “strategy” of picking the best weapon for the best map, the “difficulty” of knowing when and when not to use an AA.

Neither of these are hard to accomplish or require any special thought process.

It doesn’t take a genius to realize automatics are best on small maps.
It doesn’t take a genius to use thruster pack to dodge grenades.
It doesn’t take a genius to put regeneration field behind cover, and then strafe in and out of cover.

I can tell you what many of these things do accomplish though. They make the game easier by removing the necessity to think and avoid putting yourself in harms way. Come back to me when there are AA’s that add a skillgap instead of removing it, then we might have something worth discussing.

> All you as a player had to worry about was where the enemy was and making sure you could strafe/4sk.

First of all, you completely downplay how key communication is to knowing the enemy location, and how difficult out-strafing an opponent can be.

Second, rockets aren’t the only power weapon on the map, and they still have downsides to them as well.

#8

> Stuff

This.

If the depth added was skill-based rather than game induced randomness, then you’d have an excellent point, OP. Unfortunately, POD, random ordnance drops, and the sheer number of AA/perk combinations (almost 1,000 combinations are possible) all randomize the game environment.

I disagree with some posters that loadouts fall into the above category. As long as the weapons are properly balanced, they are fine. And with the exception of the PP in BTB and the BS, the primary weapons are pretty -Yoink!- even.

So one thing they added does provide for non-random depth. Most of the rest is simple randomization of the environment.

#9

Great except I don’t want a different Halo. There are plenty of games out there that I can pick up and play that are different. I want to play updated Halo not different Halo. Why is this concept so hard for some to grasp?

#10

> > > as others have said, its really rock, paper, scissors online. to me thats not even the worst part. the incredibly high aim assist and bullet magnetism alone makes this game much easier than prior games.
> >
> > Halo 2 had more aim assist and bullet magnetism.
>
> its been so long since i played halo 2 mm i really dont remember if thats true or not. im leaning toward not. however i do know that in halo 4 if i shoot a guy in the chest its at least a 50/50 shot at being called a headshot. swat is terrible in this game.

Now that THC is gone, I can’t find the actual testing done on this. Regardless, it shakes down this way:

CE: Mostest aim assist by far. An enemy passing in front of you while you were walking slowly forward or backward, without manually changing direction, could pull you over 30 degrees off course. Bullet magnetism low compared to other titles.

2: Second mostest aim assist. 2 gave you about a 20 degree deviation. Bullet magnetism for the PP was a whopper, and the magnetism for the other weapons was comparable to 3, Reach, and 4 with the exception of unscoped snipers, which had none.

3: Third mostest aim assist. Gave you about a 16 - 18 degree deviation. Magnetism pretty much the same as 2. Not sure if the PP was still the heat-seeking missile it was in 2. No magnetism on unscoped snipers.

4: Probably around H2 levels. I’ve done some half–Yoinked!- tests, and it is not as high as CE. It does seem to be a bit higher than 3 . . . but could be comparable. Magnetism seems comparable with the exception of unscoped snipers having magnetism (and the beam rifle being remarkably bendy for light).

The main difference between H4 and H2/H3 is hit registration. Because the precisions are hitscan, the ability to hit is not nearly affected as much by ping times as H2 / H3 (I’m pretty sure CE did it differently and hit every time). So hit registration for the same skill went up with H4, which leads to the conclusion that it’s “easier” from that perspective.

While that’s one way to look at it, an equally valid way is to say that H2 / H3 randomly dropped shots . . . which should be a mark against those titles. While the dropped shots aren’t truly random, you can’t see what your instantaneous ping time is while playing (nor could you adjust if you could see), so from the player’s perspective, it’s an uncontrollable factor = random.

Anyway, while there may be some differences with aim assist, the biggest factor is likely the switch to hitscan. Which was a good switch in principle, as it makes play less dependent on each player’s connection. They probably should have compensated with decreasing the hitbox sizes, though.

#11

> Anyway, while there may be some differences with aim assist, the biggest factor is likely the switch to hitscan. Which was a good switch in principle, as it makes play less dependent on each player’s connection. They probably should have compensated with decreasing the hitbox sizes, though.

that would help. i was talking more about the magnetism when i said it made this game easier. theres so much i dont like playing swat in halo 4 since any shot above the waist is a headshot (i know this is an exaggeration but not by much).

halo 3 magnetism is barely existent for the most part and i believe it should stay that way going forward.

and thank you for the more in depth info :slight_smile:

#12

> But halo 4’s haven not only must you control rockets But knowing the map you must account for what loadouts would work best and try to compensate VIA your own loadout or thinking ahead.

The only thing this adds is unpredictability and unbalanced gameplay. Does it take skill to be able to react quickly and think quickly in certain situations of course, but at the same time with Halo 4 you are removing numerous other skills like weapon control, map control, communication, and strafing skills, in order to add a reaction skill.

Matches should be determined by the actions the player takes in-game, not by the loadout they chose before the game even starts or the unpredictable randomness that is Ordnance drops.

> Halo is not simple or cut and dry anymore. A player has to think about much more and in some cases much quicker then before. So perhaps to me this is why people have an issue with halo 4. It’s not as simple as dancing better anymore. encounters are now more dynamic. There is essentially a bigger game at play.

If anything halo 4 has the least depth of all halo games. All you have to do is play one of the many shooters out on the market and you will already know how to play halo 4. The strategic value that halo once had was thrown out the window. I hate halo 4 for many reasons, one of the main reasons being that this game is so simple to master it’s not even funny.

#13

At the GDC panel 343i essentially came out and said they intentionally lowered the skill gap to help new players find success

How can you lower a skill gap without making a game “easier”

It’s defiantly an easier game to play, and it’s different
But different in a bad bad way

#14

> i was talking more about the magnetism when i said it made this game easier. theres so much i dont like playing swat in halo 4 since any shot above the waist is a headshot (i know this is an exaggeration but not by much).

I know what you mean. I would bet this is due to a slightly different set of factors, though, because the magnetism is comparable between H4 and H3. In H3, the BR was ballistic and each bullet was calculated separately, which allowed the target to move between bullets and potentially escape that last, highest shot from hitting his head. In H4, the pattern is hitscan, so you just have to be on target when you pull the trigger, and that last, highest shot registers in the HS hitbox. SWAT would probably benefit the most from a spread reduction, not a magnetism reduction. Actually, it would be cool if, in the future, the SWAT BR could be different from the regular BR in that respect (or maybe the regular BR spread needs reduction, too . . . I think the latest version of the EU settings reduced the spread significantly for tournament play).

> and thank you for the more in depth info :slight_smile:

No problem. I didn’t generate the data, but unfortunately can no longer find the players to whom I should give credit for doing the testing. I’m just parroting the results.

#15

Calling the game “easier” without qualifiers means absolutely nothing in a game in which you are playing competitively against other users as its still a matter of player skill that differentiates, not relatively arbitrary game traits.

That being said, Halo 4 is easier TO BE MODERATELY good. The skill gap has been greatly reduced. The argument that the game is more complex and requires more thought doesn’t hold water to me when you have people camo camping because it very definitely makes the game require less thought. You have half the player base running around and pressing the left should button to see through walls.

Tell me how having an “omniscience button” makes the game require more thought?

I would argue that the game has been spread so hopelessly thin that it removes the need for thought because any premeditation is rendered useless. The game is all reaction now imo.

#16

My thoughts exactly OP. the relative importance of aiming and map movement may have gone down, yet many new skills such as loadout selection, ability to adapt (others loadouts, ordnance), skill with a variety of guns, fast reaction time to random ordnance, emerges.

People don’t seem to appreciate how halo 4 actually does take skill.

#17

> At the GDC panel 343i essentially came out and said they intentionally lowered the skill gap to help new players find success
>
> How can you lower a skill gap without making a game “easier”
>
> It’s defiantly an easier game to play, and it’s different
> But different in a bad bad way

Lowering the skill gap makes the game “easier” for below average players, but by the same token wouldn’t it make it harder for above average players by pulling them back toward the pack?

So has that made the game objectively easier or has it just redistributed who feels challenged?

#18

> People don’t seem to appreciate how halo 4 actually does take skill.

I do. I just prefer strategic skill over reaction skill.

#19

> My thoughts exactly OP. the relative importance of aiming and map movement may have gone down, yet many new skills such as loadout selection, ability to adapt (others loadouts, ordnance), skill with a variety of guns, fast reaction time to random ordnance, emerges.
>
> <mark>People don’t seem to appreciate how halo 4 actually does take skill.</mark>

A dice roll isn’t skill and that is what Halo 4’s multiplayer boils down to.

#20

> In halo 1-3 It was simple…Control power weapons and who ever shoots more accurate wins.

I’m sorry, but if you think that was all there was to H1-H3, then I can’t even begin to debate with you.