Halo 4 & 5 - What's the big problem?

Games Halo: The Master Chief Collection
1

Hi guys, I’ve been reading through posts, comments and so on, so I figured I’d ask this.

I understand feedback should be given to better improve the game but what is the problem with Halo 4 and Halo 5?
After playing the masterchief collection Halo 4 I believe is still my favourite. Went through the campaign and thought it’s the best so far. Halo 4 playlist finally releases and I’m overjoyed at how fun it is compared to the others, Halo 5 Beta is also exciting, new and fun to play. But, everywhere I look though theres posts like “The franchise needs a reboot, no sprint, no armor abilities, no thruster packs, no loadouts, 343 are crap, etc.”
I know it’s not just my opinion because a lot of people I talk to seem to share my opinion, but I see none of those problems. Sprinting was new and fun to halo to me. I always felt halo was a bit slow sometimes especially on big maps where it took 2 minutes to get back into the action only to die and respawn back in the same spot you just travelled from.
I loved armor abilities, armor lock looked cool, felt great when you used it and it worked, Jetpack was amazing, holograms were useful and funny when people fell for them, etc.
I wasn’t overly fussed with loadouts but it helped prevent starting matches with an smg and whoever was lucky enough to get the good weapons dominated the entire match.
The 343 are crap posts just aggravate me. All my friends and I all share similar opinions, every halo has it’s pros and cons but when I read comments like that it’s like “People hate a company that made a game that I really enjoy because they think it’s crap and need a reboot”, why?! Forgive me but if they give us the choice to play with variety, innovative enjoyable features, and top notch story telling, I see no reason that all the features that I assume thousands of people enjoy should just be scrapped. I can’t help but think it will become some generic boring first person shooter if you take out all the features that make it halo.
I really enjoyed halo reach and halo 4, along with all the halos. I just don’t want it to turn dull and take out the features I enjoyed.

Provide choice in multiplayer if that’s what all this whining about.
-Playlists with and without sprint
-Playlists with and without armor abilities
-Playlists with and without loadouts
If we have choices we can play what we want without destroying what people have grown to love and enjoy.
Sorry for the long post, I just don’t understand at all the issues with those features and games.

2

Well the campaign are not the best example of classic halo play. Features like Sprint or thrust can work just fine in campaign, and not create any real issues. The problem is in online multiplayer games. You are evidently unfamiliar with that. Halo 2, 3. We’re very popular for several reasons. The games were fun and competative. But they were also balanced out well. Bungie would listen to the players and fine tuned the games after release. This worked very well and both games are to some extent legendary in the gaming realm. I remember many, many games of lone wolves in h3 with less than 2 kills difference from 1st to last place, game after game. It was very competitive and very fun. So of coarse this huge fan base is developed from these great games, and then halo reach comes out. And it stinks on ice, the game itself is different because of abilities, armor lock, Sprint, and then bloom. The core of the game was such that it couldn’t be fixed, it was no longer fun to play and people moved on to other games. With H4 we hoped we would get a return to the core halo gameplay, but instead we found that Sprint itself was the real problem to reach. With Sprint the maps are made larger. The larger maps do most of the damage because initial contact is so far apart you can’t effectively employ, grenades, melee, or use the AR. This left the longer range br/ dmr as your only real option. So players naturally tend to camp, and the battle ends up mostly in gun battles, fun but generally short lived. This is most noticeable in objective gametypes. Then comes the h5 beta and we see that core of the gameplay is built around Sprint, so for now Halo is dead at least until the MCC is working properly. So yes we are upset, we have lost a good friend after many years. Rip Master Chief.

3

Post-Halo 3 there has been an shrinking of the skill gap. That’s why I dislike the newer games. While I understand the industry has shifted towards the ideal that even the noobiest player should be able to feel like a killing machine, I much prefer a game that kicks you when you’re down. Newer fans to the series says that pushes people away from the series and I say that’s a great thing. You should get the sense that you’re not good if you keep getting beat. You keep practicing to get better and soon you’ll be the one beating up on the lesser skilled players.

Proof of massive bullet magnetism, ordinance, loadouts, H5 abilities…it’s all there to shrink the skill gap. It makes lower skilled players feel like they’re better than what they are. Notice how many more people loved Reach after the title update? Or the increased number of players praising the MCC H4 because of the removal of ordinance? It’s not a coincidence. Most everything added to Halo post-H3 have been little “magic tricks” to entice new players to join the series. I understand it from a business perspective, but not from a competitive one.

4

> 2533274811231902;2:
> Well the campaign are not the best example of classic halo play. Features like Sprint or thrust can work just fine in campaign, and not create any real issues. The problem is in online multiplayer games. You are evidently unfamiliar with that. Halo 2, 3. We’re very popular for several reasons. The games were fun and competative. But they were also balanced out well. Bungie would listen to the players and fine tuned the games after release. This worked very well and both games are to some extent legendary in the gaming realm. I remember many, many games of lone wolves in h3 with less than 2 kills difference from 1st to last place, game after game. It was very competitive and very fun. So of coarse this huge fan base is developed from these great games, and then halo reach comes out. And it stinks on ice, the game itself is different because of abilities, armor lock, Sprint, and then bloom. The core of the game was such that it couldn’t be fixed, it was no longer fun to play and people moved on to other games. With H4 we hoped we would get a return to the core halo gameplay, but instead we found that Sprint itself was the real problem to reach. With Sprint the maps are made larger. The larger maps do most of the damage because initial contact is so far apart you can’t effectively employ, grenades, melee, or use the AR. This left the longer range br/ dmr as your only real option. So players naturally tend to camp, and the battle ends up mostly in gun battles, fun but generally short lived. This is most noticeable in objective gametypes. Then comes the h5 beta and we see that core of the gameplay is built around Sprint, so for now Halo is dead at least until the MCC is working properly. So yes we are upset, we have lost a good friend after many years. Rip Master Chief.

I understand with most of what you’re saying and I can imagine it is annoying for some but I just preferred Reach and Halo 4 especially with the inclusion of armor abilities. Just sort of gave a purpose for the armor and plays out to be very fun and immersive. Don’t get me wrong I loved Halo 1 and 2, got both games pretty much at their launches and I wasn’t disappointed at all. It’s not that I’m unfamiliar it’s just I would feel cheated if they kept it the same game after game. I don’t want another COD which is why so many people turn to Halo. With each game progressing I’ve been enjoying Halo for some of the same aspects and of course the differences. But all I see is claims that Halo is ruined, it’s gone shithouse, every aspect is apparently filth and 343 deserve to die for their efforts. I seem to be a minority but that seems just ridiculous since some changes were minor.
I play for the fun of it, it’s awesome to do some of this stuff in multiplayer but I found no trouble at clearing 20+ kills with others not so much. So what I could see is there wasn’t really a huge problem. If they change it back, do some sidesteps to take out sprint, armor abilities, and so on I can see myself hating it and getting ruined. Judging by interviews and such 343 want it to be fun, immersive, cool, not this view that they are actively trying to destroy Halo. Most of 343 are hardcore fans to which is why they get gamers to come in and play for feedback and of course that’s why they have the BETA. If they change back to appease older fans fair enough, I just don’t want it becoming a boring unfair game, which is why I thought armor abilities and sprint were a fresh and welcome addition. Just give choices in playlists so that you appease both types of player, if I get my choice taken I can imagine most like myself would just wait for the next better instalment.
(Sorry for the slab of typing guys)

5

All new players like h4 and h5 much more because of the shrinking of the skill gap. Getting your -Yoink- handed to you over and over again in h2 is not appealing to people who play casually and just want to have some fun.

6

Personally I haven’t really liked anything that they’ve released since h3, but you make some fair points. Sprint, armour abilities, ordinance, loadouts make the game more flashy and ‘cool’ but it takes away from the competition, the simplicity, the map design and the classic arena shooter feel. They are catering to the people that want a fun arcade shooter to play for 6 months before they move on to the next AAA shooter, not the fans that played the original games for years. I realize that they can’t just make the same game again and again, but the features they’ve added are basically what the other big games are doing, and it just feels like some kind of halo COD hybrid to me. They need new original ways of making the game different every release. I’m more then happy to just play the ones I enjoy most and you’re entitled to your opinion too.

7

> 2533274845306474;6:
> Personally I haven’t really liked anything that they’ve released since h3, but you make some fair points. Sprint, armour abilities, ordinance, loadouts make the game more flashy and ‘cool’ but it takes away from the competition, the simplicity, the map design and the classic arena shooter feel. They are catering to the people that want a fun arcade shooter to play for 6 months before they move on to the next AAA shooter, not the fans that played the original games for years. I realize that they can’t just make the same game again and again, but the features they’ve added are basically what the other big games are doing, and it just feels like some kind of halo COD hybrid to me. They need new original ways of making the game different every release. I’m more then happy to just play the ones I enjoy most and you’re entitled to your opinion too.

I agree with what you’re saying, but like I said it comes back to choice. I’m sure it would be confusing but just offering separate playlists that cater for different gamers would appease most people. For example; “I don’t feel like the halo 2ish slayer type I might play a BTB with some armor abilities today”. It’s essentially what I did anyway with most halos like halo 4 swapping to the SWAT from BTB or other playlists. My point it is they take some new aspects out, some competitors may be happy but others, regardless if they are competitive or just want to play for fun may dislike the backwards step. It’s like we can’t have one without the other with every situation ending with some people loving it and others hating it.

8

Halo definitely doesn’t need a reboot. I really like where 343 is taking it story wise.

As for gameplay, some things fit well in multiplayer, and others are better off in campaign. Halo 4’s matchmaking felt kinda like CoD to me. Yet I loved Halo Reach and never really understood why a lot of people hated it, despite it being pretty similar to Halo 4 with the armor abilities. At least 343 is trying their best to add non-game breaking features to Halo 5.

As for Halo feeling kinda slow, that’s why I always wished the warthog was faster. Like racecar fast. 343 should also add the ability to forge Pelicans and scarabs.

9

Halo 4 was developed for noobs who preferred COD because they couldn’t use a BR, hence care packages.

Halo Reach tried to compete with COD and destroyed the franchise with loadouts and sprint.

Halo franchised has failed ever since, all they had to do was develop H4 instead of Reach by taking what made H3 the best and applying it to H4 with upgraded graphics and engine, keeping much of the basic functionality that made H3 the most dominant FPS shooter ever.

if you don’t understand this, then you are the noob they accommodated for when they made Halo:Reach.

I bet the OP prefers jet packs too

10

> 2533274853061785;9:
> Halo 4 was developed for noobs who preferred COD because they couldn’t use a BR, hence care packages.
>
> Halo Reach tried to compete with COD and destroyed the franchise with loadouts and sprint.
>
> Halo franchised has failed ever since, all they had to do was develop H4 instead of Reach by taking what made H3 the best and applying it to H4 with upgraded graphics and engine, keeping much of the basic functionality that made H3 the most dominant FPS shooter ever.
>
> if you don’t understand this, then you are the noob they accommodated for when they made Halo:Reach.
>
> I bet the OP prefers jet packs too

I’ve played every Halo and I do understand you but I disagree with some of it. Yes Halo 4 was made with COD in mind because some of it’s features had some of the halo fanbase wishing they had it, such as having sprint as a normal ability rather than an armor ability. Did Halo Reach have loadouts? I thought it was only Halo 4.
As for “destroy the franchise”, I hardly think that’s true. Especially with how successful both Reach and Halo 4 were in both growing fanbase and reviews, it is just it has a much larger fanbase now meaning a lot more people with different opinions. The story in halo reach and 4 were fresh and were best so far I thought. I personally thought it was a decent upgrade from 3 to Reach, with Reach being made by bungie for those who believe 343 made it. Looking at Halo 4 it just felt like an adjusted upgrade to Reach while replacing some armor abilities and adding new weapons and vehicles which some fans were begging for I might add.
We’ve got millions of people who want new, fresh, amazing stuff in terms of gameplay and of course fairness for competitors. What I don’t get is everyone has the access to all these abilities, some people were feeling cheated when some players had certain armor abilities and others didn’t so 343 made loadouts since it was desired to make it much more fairer, e.g. start with guns and abilities that make you comfortable and even ground. Now see what happened, we now have people who hate it because it’s made it too even and we should cater to pure professionals and say FU to new players. From a business perspective and someone who is a fan and who plays halo for fun I think that’s crap. Do you think that sounds unfair or fair?
What I feel like I am seeing are two different people. 1, competitors with little care for other players opinions who only want to be more distinguished as “elite players”, and 2, halo fans who like it for the deep lore, campaign stories, and a fair and fun multiplayer. I feel threatened by these -Yoink!- opinions that feel like they should dictate how halo should be to their OWN opinion and no one elses. I’m at least open to the thoughts of others hence why I keep emphasising choices should be given for those who like and dislike certain features. I won’t assume others don’t understand what true halo is like because it could have been different to other people. For example; I didn’t think halo 2 was the pinnacle of games to destroy all others shaming every halo, it was definitely great but I don’t think of it as that exaggerated.
I agree though that they have failed if they tried to make it more like COD. Because COD is abysmal and if they keep armor abilities (Or Spartan abilities according to halo 5), keep the BTB feel with vehicles, and the halo story they can maintain being their own game which is why I liked it from the beginning.

11

> 2533274842478290;8:
> Halo definitely doesn’t need a reboot. I really like where 343 is taking it story wise.
>
> As for gameplay, some things fit well in multiplayer, and others are better off in campaign. Halo 4’s matchmaking felt kinda like CoD to me. Yet I loved Halo Reach and never really understood why a lot of people hated it, despite it being pretty similar to Halo 4 with the armor abilities. At least 343 is trying their best to add non-game breaking features to Halo 5.
>
> As for Halo feeling kinda slow, that’s why I always wished the warthog was faster. Like racecar fast. 343 should also add the ability to forge Pelicans and scarabs.

I feel comforted knowing someone else shares some of my opinion haha especially the pelican, not sure if scarabs would work but hell it would be cool.

12

Halo 4 has the tightest multiplayer of any of the games, hands down. People just don’t like change.

13

> 2791963697563797;12:
> Halo 4 has the tightest multiplayer of any of the games, hands down. People just don’t like change.

I like change just not too much, it’s not like it was that different it wasn’t halo. Despite what others say I thought it was a good change.

14

Halo 1, 4 and 5 are the only halo games with an actual skill gap. The halo 2, 3, reach, and odst games all had a borderline non existent skill gap. Any scrub who thinks otherwise is just bad at halo 1, 4, and 5.

Halo 5 is the first Halo game since the first where balance is the first priority.

It was really sad when Halo 2 came out and it became obvious they listened to all the idiots and threw in things like dual weapons. How bad were you at Halo one to want dual weapons? Lol

I really can’t stand the halo community. Just a bunch of self entitled rats that can’t stand the new games because they are trash at them.

Bungie has dished out completely scrub friendly trash for years, but you all eat it up, you all love getting your hand held. Its become obvious after playing halo 5 343 is the only company in the world that can make a good halo game.

EDIT: its become obvious after reading the comments no one knows what “balance” and competitive" means.

Halo 2 removing the health and adding a BR that any idiot can use (if you miss with the br in halo 2 even once; you are bad) therefore making it easier to kill makes the skill gap SMALLER, makes the game LESS competitive.

I can say objectively speaking; if you think halo 2, 3, reach and odst were in anyway competitive you are wrong, they are not. I’ve played professionally, i know what im talking about so jog on scrubs.

15

> 2533274792269615;14:
> Halo 1, 4 and 5 are the only halo games with an actual skill gap. The halo 2, 3, reach, and odst games all had a borderline non existent skill gap. Any scrub who thinks otherwise is just bad at halo 1, 4, and 5.
>
> Halo 5 is the first Halo game since the first where balance is the first priority.
>
> It was really sad when Halo 2 came out and it became obvious they listened to all the idiots and threw in things like dual weapons. How bad were you at Halo one to want dual weapons? Lol
>
> I really can’t stand the halo community. Just a bunch of self entitled rats that can’t stand the new games because they are trash at them.
>
> Bungie has dished out completely scrub friendly trash for years, but you all eat it up, you all love getting your hand held. Its become obvious after playing halo 5 343 is the only company in the world that can make a good halo game.
>
> EDIT: its become obvious after reading the comments no one knows what “balance” and competitive" means.
>
> Halo 2 removing the health and adding a BR that any idiot can use (if you miss with the br in halo 2 even once; you are bad) therefore making it easier to kill makes the skill gap SMALLER, makes the game LESS competitive.
>
> I can say objectively speaking; if you think halo 2, 3, reach and odst were in anyway competitive you are wrong, they are not. I’ve played professionally, i know what im talking about so jog on scrubs.

nearly all the halos are more balanced then halo 1 lol, I loved it but thats the truth.

16

> 2533274792269615;14:
> Halo 1, 4 and 5 are the only halo games with an actual skill gap. The halo 2, 3, reach, and odst games all had a borderline non existent skill gap. Any scrub who thinks otherwise is just bad at halo 1, 4, and 5.
>
> Halo 5 is the first Halo game since the first where balance is the first priority.
>
> It was really sad when Halo 2 came out and it became obvious they listened to all the idiots and threw in things like dual weapons. How bad were you at Halo one to want dual weapons? Lol
>
> I really can’t stand the halo community. Just a bunch of self entitled rats that can’t stand the new games because they are trash at them.
>
> Bungie has dished out completely scrub friendly trash for years, but you all eat it up, you all love getting your hand held. Its become obvious after playing halo 5 343 is the only company in the world that can make a good halo game.
>
> EDIT: its become obvious after reading the comments no one knows what “balance” and competitive" means.
>
> Halo 2 removing the health and adding a BR that any idiot can use (if you miss with the br in halo 2 even once; you are bad) therefore making it easier to kill makes the skill gap SMALLER, makes the game LESS competitive.
>
> I can say objectively speaking; if you think halo 2, 3, reach and odst were in anyway competitive you are wrong, they are not. I’ve played professionally, i know what im talking about so jog on scrubs.

I personally just think variety of choices is key. Have functionality for dual wielding, sprint etc but just provide playlists that do and don’t have them so everyones happy. Me personally I liked the halo 5 Beta, in fact I’ve loved every halo. Lifes too short to nitpick at every small problem.

17

[deleted]

18

They’re just taking the MP in the wrong direction. H4 and H5 are just watered down games, in which the changes made don’t actually add to the quality of the game.

19

> 2533274815946143;1:
> Hi guys, I’ve been reading through posts, comments and so on, so I figured I’d ask this.
>
> I understand feedback should be given to better improve the game but what is the problem with Halo 4 and Halo 5?
> After playing the masterchief collection Halo 4 I believe is still my favourite. Went through the campaign and thought it’s the best so far. Halo 4 playlist finally releases and I’m overjoyed at how fun it is compared to the others, Halo 5 Beta is also exciting, new and fun to play. But, everywhere I look though theres posts like “The franchise needs a reboot, no sprint, no armor abilities, no thruster packs, no loadouts, 343 are crap, etc.”
> I know it’s not just my opinion because a lot of people I talk to seem to share my opinion, but I see none of those problems. Sprinting was new and fun to halo to me. I always felt halo was a bit slow sometimes especially on big maps where it took 2 minutes to get back into the action only to die and respawn back in the same spot you just travelled from.
> I loved armor abilities, armor lock looked cool, felt great when you used it and it worked, Jetpack was amazing, holograms were useful and funny when people fell for them, etc.
> I wasn’t overly fussed with loadouts but it helped prevent starting matches with an smg and whoever was lucky enough to get the good weapons dominated the entire match.
> The 343 are crap posts just aggravate me. All my friends and I all share similar opinions, every halo has it’s pros and cons but when I read comments like that it’s like “People hate a company that made a game that I really enjoy because they think it’s crap and need a reboot”, why?! Forgive me but if they give us the choice to play with variety, innovative enjoyable features, and top notch story telling, I see no reason that all the features that I assume thousands of people enjoy should just be scrapped. I can’t help but think it will become some generic boring first person shooter if you take out all the features that make it halo.
> I really enjoyed halo reach and halo 4, along with all the halos. I just don’t want it to turn dull and take out the features I enjoyed.
>
> Provide choice in multiplayer if that’s what all this whining about.
> -Playlists with and without sprint
> -Playlists with and without armor abilities
> -Playlists with and without loadouts
> If we have choices we can play what we want without destroying what people have grown to love and enjoy.
> Sorry for the long post, I just don’t understand at all the issues with those features and games.

I love Halo 4! A lot of us do. I see in BTB when a Halo 4 maps comes up a lot of people vote for it. The people who hate Halo 4 a just very vocal, there are people who just hate any kind of change. Some people just hate it because it’s not Bungie’s game anymore. Some hate it because they hate anything that’s different from Halo 2-3.

I personally like being able to customize, I like to choose a loadout that suits my particular play style or one that suits a specific map.

I’ve really enjoyed all the Halo games. Halo needs to change with the times and evolve to stay relevant. There is no way to do that without upsetting some people.

So, some changes are implemented and some people don’t do as well as they did before. Some, reasonably express their opinions but many more just whine and cry. Unfortunately there is way too much of that in gaming today.

20

> 2535439246800400;18:
> They’re just taking the MP in the wrong direction. H4 and H5 are just watered down games, in which the changes made don’t actually add to the quality of the game.

Couldn’t disagree with you more. The multiplayer in Halo 4 is easily the tightest of the lot. Dead on gunplay and movement. The added speed was much needed. Customizations allow for many more strategic options than you had in Halo 1 - 3.