Halo 4 (2 Stats based playlists ?) Idea

Games Other Halo
1

I have been thinking that a good way to make matches more competitive and balanced, would be to allow access to a playlist only if you have high enough stats . .
These would be their own playlists that have there own matchmaking listing, I guess it could maybe be called High Stats or something like that . .

HS (High Stats) 4v4 Slayer = Players with the required KD spread would be able to access the playlist, the KD spread could be between 1.5 and 2.0.

HS (High Stats) 4v4 Objective = Players with the required KD (Between 1.5 and 2.00) and flag captures/bombs planted/bombs detonated/territories captured . . etc would be able to access the playlist.

The amount of all of the flag captures/bombs planted/bombs detonated/territories captured . . etc(Over the course of the players lifetime in Halo 4) could be between 300 to 500.

<mark>These playlists if they were in Halo 4 would be very competitive and fun I think, because they would allow really good players a place to go and get matched up with other very good players.</mark>
<mark>Also these two playlists wouldn’t allow guests or a party of players, it would be how Lone Wolves was in Halo 3, max local players 1 and max party size 1, players would find their 3 teammates by searching for them in the playlist.</mark>

2

First of all, using K/D as a basis is an absolutely horrible idea if you want to get good players into a playlists. Secondly, what purpose does a playlist serve that doesn’t allow all players to play? More skillful matches? No, you can already get those with TrueSkill and even if you couldn’t, you certainly would have a better way to determine who is allowed to play and who isn’t than K/D.

The whole idea is pointless and horrible to begin with. What point does anything in the idea serve? Why restrict party size to one? If you wanted to enforce competitive play, you’d want people to go into the playlist with their own teams. The whole idea of a playlist that leaves certain people out is pointless to begin with. Your arrangement only makes it all worse.

3

> First of all, using K/D as a basis is an absolutely horrible idea if you want to get good players into a playlists. Secondly, what purpose does a playlist serve that doesn’t allow all players to play? More skillful matches? No, you can already get those with TrueSkill and even if you couldn’t, you certainly would have a better way to determine who is allowed to play and who isn’t than K/D.
>
> The whole idea is pointless and horrible to begin with. What point does anything in the idea serve? Why restrict party size to one? If you wanted to enforce competitive play, you’d want people to go into the playlist with their own teams. The whole idea of a playlist that leaves certain people out is pointless to begin with. Your arrangement only makes it all worse.

First of all there has never been such a type of playlist in Halo, or for any FPS game that I know of.

Second . . <mark>The two playlists I suggested would be only two playlists out of all the playlists that are in/will be in Halo 4.</mark>

Third . . Numbers don’t lie, a KD spread is the best way to see if someone is good at getting kills, a 1.5 to 2.0 KD would show that a person goes positive a lot more then negative each game they play.

Fourth . . I myself only have a 1.1 KD in Reach and worse in Halo 3, so I’m not a elitist or MLG person.

Fifth . . Why so aggressive with the way you typed your reply ? I’m just wondering. I’m not trying to be -Yoink- at all.

4

> Fifth . . Why so aggressive with the way you typed your reply ? I’m just wondering. I’m not trying to be -Yoink!- at all.

If you’re not a competitive player please don’t make suggestions for us saying what we want. You can just ask us and we will tell you.

5

It’s not really sustainable. You can’t really expect a bunch of good players to maintain a 1.5 K/D when they are going up against other player who have to maintain a 1.5 K/D. If they truly are well balanced teams, than you would have to expect their K/Ds to be close to 1.0.

Unless you want them to have to go back into the normal playlists to raise their K/D back up to a 1.5

6

> > Fifth . . Why so aggressive with the way you typed your reply ? I’m just wondering. I’m not trying to be -Yoink!- at all.
>
> If you’re not a competitive player please don’t make suggestions for us saying what we want. You can just ask us and we will tell you.

Where does your reply come from ?

I never said I wasn’t competitive. I try hard to not go negative, and if I die to much I stay back and hide.

But I get kills while hiding, so I don’t bring down the players I get paired up with

7

> It’s not really sustainable. You can’t really expect a bunch of good players to maintain a 1.5 K/D when they are going up against other player who have to maintain a 1.5 K/D. If they truly are well balanced teams, than you would have to expect their K/Ds to be close to 1.0.
>
> Unless you want them to have to go back into the normal playlists to raise their K/D back up to a 1.5

That is true . . But it would make people that want to continue to have access to the 2 playlists to step up their game.

I’m pretty there are at least a couple of thousand players who maintain a KD between 1.5 and 2.0.

And of course they could raise their KD if they wanted to.

8

> Third . . Numbers don’t lie, a KD spread is the best way to see if someone is good at getting kills, a 1.5 to 2.0 KD would show that a person goes positive a lot more then negative each game they play.
>
> Fourth . . I myself only have a 1.1 KD in Reach and worse in Halo 3, so I’m not a elitist or MLG person.
>
> Fifth . . Why so aggressive with the way you typed your reply ? I’m just wondering. I’m not trying to be -Yoink!- at all.

First of all, soon after writing that post I realized how agressive I sounded. I didn’t mean that and want to apologize for it. I don’t know where I lost my manners. It was merely the idea that, to be perfectly honest, wasn’t exactly a very good idea, that caused me to react a bit too strongly. Regardless, my apologies for it.

However, I still have to say the idea is rather horrible. Now, I understand it would only be two playlists. But you have to understand that the whole idea serves no purpose when you can arrange as competitive and as balanced matches with good players, just by using the TrueSkill matchmaking that is integrated into the Xbox Live service. If you want a playlist that puts a priority for these kind of matches, you simply crank the restrictions up until no player can get matched with a TrueSkill difference of more than ±1. You don’t need to restrict less skilled players from accessing the playlist in order to guarantee good matches for the more skilled players.

The way you would execute this idea isn’t really any better than the idea itself. You’re completely correct that numbers don’t lie. You just have to be careful to always know what the number represents. K/D tells just what the equation says, how much kills you get towards a single death. You don’t need to be a good player to get a good K/D, not even benefical for your team. I can go into matchmaking, camp in the corner of the map for the whole match, get ten kills and one death, end up being the least effective player in the match, and still get a K/D of 10 from the match. At the same time, my teammate could be pulling 25 kills with 20 deaths and get a K/D of 1.25.

K/D tells literally nothing about your actual skills. You can have two players with different K/D rations. One is agressive and one plays very carefully avoiding every death. The careful player could have a K/D of 2.3 and the agressive player could have a K/D of 1.3. However, if you were to pit these players against eachother in a 1v1, the match could end up being very even or even end up with the agressive player dominating the careful player. It’s merely their playstyles that make their K/D what it is, not their skills.

Last of all, the party restriction truly is an irrational thing. You want to get people doing competitive teamwork, but you take away their ability to go in with a team. There is no logical reason to do that. So, as nicely as I would want to say this, my honest opinion is that the idea and the arrangement are horrible. There is no hostility in my tone, currently, just pure honesty. So please, don’t take this harshly.

9

> > Third . . Numbers don’t lie, a KD spread is the best way to see if someone is good at getting kills, a 1.5 to 2.0 KD would show that a person goes positive a lot more then negative each game they play.
> >
> > Fourth . . I myself only have a 1.1 KD in Reach and worse in Halo 3, so I’m not a elitist or MLG person.
> >
> > Fifth . . Why so aggressive with the way you typed your reply ? I’m just wondering. I’m not trying to be -Yoink!- at all.
>
> First of all, soon after writing that post I realized how agressive I sounded. I didn’t mean that and want to apologize for it. I don’t know where I lost my manners. It was merely the idea that, to be perfectly honest, wasn’t exactly a very good idea, that caused me to react a bit too strongly. Regardless, my apologies for it.
>
> However, I still have to say the idea is rather horrible. Now, I understand it would only be two playlists. But you have to understand that the whole idea serves no purpose when you can arrange as competitive and as balanced matches with good players, just by using the TrueSkill matchmaking that is integrated into the Xbox Live service. If you want a playlist that puts a priority for these kind of matches, you simply crank the restrictions up until no player can get matched with a TrueSkill difference of more than ±1. You don’t need to restrict less skilled players from accessing the playlist in order to guarantee good matches for the more skilled players.
>
> The way you would execute this idea isn’t really any better than the idea itself. You’re completely correct that numbers don’t lie. You just have to be careful to always know what the number represents. K/D tells just what the equation says, how much kills you get towards a single death. You don’t need to be a good player to get a good K/D, not even benefical for your team. I can go into matchmaking, camp in the corner of the map for the whole match, get ten kills and one death, end up being the least effective player in the match, and still get a K/D of 10 from the match. At the same time, my teammate could be pulling 25 kills with 20 deaths and get a K/D of 1.25.
>
> K/D tells literally nothing about your actual skills. You can have two players with different K/D rations. One is agressive and one plays very carefully avoiding every death. The careful player could have a K/D of 2.3 and the agressive player could have a K/D of 1.3. However, if you were to pit these players against eachother in a 1v1, the match could end up being very even or even end up with the agressive player dominating the careful player. It’s merely their playstyles that make their K/D what it is, not their skills.
>
> Last of all, the party restriction truly is an irrational thing. You want to get people doing competitive teamwork, but you take away their ability to go in with a team. There is no logical reason to do that. So, as nicely as I would want to say this, my honest opinion is that the idea and the arrangement are horrible. There is no hostility in my tone, currently, just pure honesty. So please, don’t take this harshly.

I do have the search settings setting for winning and all of that positive stuff, but I still get paired up with people who don’t know when to stay back or who can’t get kills at all =( All while I get 20 kill’s and few deaths.

This idea I think could work, I really think it should be tired out, it could always be removed if it wasn’t popular.

And I could see how not being able to have a 4 player party would be bad, so I guess that would be a bad idea somewhat, but having a party with randoms going up against a 4 player party is unfair.

Because the 4 player party are most likely a group of friends who player and would communicate with each other, a group of randoms doesn’t always communicate =(

Also I guess a more exact and better KD to go by would be KD per game.

ps TrueSkill is good, but it does have flaws =( I gotta go though . .I have work this afternoon, I will check back on this thread later today.

10

> I do have the search settings setting for winning and all of that positive stuff, but I still get paired up with people who don’t know when to stay back or who can’t get kills at all =( All while I get 20 kill’s and few deaths.
>
> This idea I think could work, I really think it should be tired out, it could always be removed if it wasn’t popular.

The thing is, as far as the search settings in Reach go, they aren’t restricted enough. Halo 3 ranked did a very good job at matching skilled players with skilled players and less skilled with less skilled. You see, the search restrictions of a playlist can be set to as high as you want. The problem is, Reach hasn’t them very high, even with your own restrictions on and thus you end up with less than good matches. For these reasons your idea is pointless, it unnecessarily restricts players away from the playlists without really doing anything to improve the quality of the matches (when you would still have the same, unrestrictive, crappy matchmaking system).

> And I could see how not being able to have a 4 player party would be bad, so I guess that would be a bad idea somewhat, but having a party with randoms going up against a 4 player party is unfair.
>
> Because the 4 player party are most likely a group of friends who player and would communicate with each other, a group of randoms doesn’t always communicate =(

The thing is, in a competitive playlist, it’s really nothing but your own fault if you get bad teammates when you don’t take the time to find a decent team to play with. So no, it’s not unfair in a playlist designed around matches that are supposed to be about winning, to have a full team going against a bunch of randoms. Lone Wolves only had the party restriction because it was FFA.

> Also I guess a more exact and better KD to go by would be KD per game.
>
> ps TrueSkill is good, but it does have flaws =( I gotta go though . .I have work this afternoon, I will check back on this thread later today.

You have to ditch the idea of K/D. There are much better statistics around, K/D is something that only shows a direction, but should not be used to determine is a player good. I’m not going to pretend TrueSkill is flawless, but it really is much less flawed than you think. After all, as a system that consistently evolves and uses probabilities, it becomes more and more accurate as you play. After hundreds of games, TrueSkill doesn’t lie. If you want to match players based on skill, TrueSkill is certainly the best choice. On average, in 4v4, TrueSkill can make a very accurate estimation on player skill only after 46 games. The only reason people don’t like TrueSkill is because it’s too honest. If you get locked at 35, that’s how good you are.

However, don’t think the Halo 3 version as an accurate presentation of TrueSkill. Bungie slowed the whole system down to be able to turn it to a progression system. In real TrueSkill, things are much more fluid and your real skill level is found much more quickly and your rank doesn’t lock in the sense that you can’t become better and progress your TrueSkill anymore, it only locks if you truly aren’t becoming any better.

So, TrueSkill truly is all you need to have a good matchmaking system. You just need to make it strict enough to not mix bad and good players.

11

> The thing is, in a competitive playlist, it’s really nothing but your own fault if you get bad teammates when you don’t take the time to find a decent team to play with. So no, it’s not unfair in a playlist designed around matches that are supposed to be about winning, to have a full team going against a bunch of randoms. Lone Wolves only had the party restriction because it was FFA.

I’m not a very social person =( I have been this way all my life, I’m afraid of interacting with people because I know how bad people can really be, I stay to myself to avoid trouble.

I bet there are a lot of Halo players that are the same as me when it comes to interacting with people.

The option for me to get 3 teammates isn’t there for me =(

I chose this quote out of the last three you posted, because it isn’t something I answered in this thread, I still think my responses to your 2 other quotes are still relevant.

A Slayer game at it’s very core is about Kill’s and Death’s, there for using a players overall KD is the best way I think to know how reliable a player is at getting Kill’s and not Death’s.

Of course pairing up people who are very good at getting kill’s, would cause some players to start having a decline in their KD, but that would force them to try and get better, it would provide them with a challenge.

These playlists would be only two playlists out of all the matchmaking playlists, and they would be there for the people who want to have two matchmaking playlists like the ones I suggested in my op.

12

> > First of all, using K/D as a basis is an absolutely horrible idea if you want to get good players into a playlists. Secondly, what purpose does a playlist serve that doesn’t allow all players to play? More skillful matches? No, you can already get those with TrueSkill and even if you couldn’t, you certainly would have a better way to determine who is allowed to play and who isn’t than K/D.
> >
> > The whole idea is pointless and horrible to begin with. What point does anything in the idea serve? Why restrict party size to one? If you wanted to enforce competitive play, you’d want people to go into the playlist with their own teams. The whole idea of a playlist that leaves certain people out is pointless to begin with. Your arrangement only makes it all worse.
>
> First of all there has never been such a type of playlist in Halo, or for any FPS game that I know of.
>
> Second . . <mark>The two playlists I suggested would be only two playlists out of all the playlists that are in/will be in Halo 4.</mark>
>
> Third . . Numbers don’t lie, a KD spread is the best way to see if someone is good at getting kills, a 1.5 to 2.0 KD would show that a person goes positive a lot more then negative each game they play.
>
> Fourth . . I myself only have a 1.1 KD in Reach and worse in Halo 3, so I’m not a elitist or MLG person.
>
> Fifth . . Why so aggressive with the way you typed your reply ? I’m just wondering. I’m not trying to be -Yoink!- at all.

1: There are reasons there are no playlists like this, as it says “Hog kills to get here” or “Betray people so you can get all the objectives and get into here”

2: But what if I wanted to play a skilled playlist with my brother? We share an xbox so its not fair that we can’t play this if we’re both good players.

3: Thats complete bull. What if someone goes 30 20. Most consider that a bad score because they died twenty times. But they really played great. Just stop, K/D is crap and barely shows any means of skill at all. There are countless variables to take in when you think about K/D that just wouldn’t make it fair.

4: … I’ve got 1.3 in both and a positive in MLG.

5: Tensions are high. This just proves a point on my other thread. tsassi is generally respectful, not certain what prompted their reply.

13

what people fail to realize is that in order for someone to have a positive K/D there must be someone else with a negative one, same goes for W/L’s.

14

not fond of the idea

15

> > > First of all, using K/D as a basis is an absolutely horrible idea if you want to get good players into a playlists. Secondly, what purpose does a playlist serve that doesn’t allow all players to play? More skillful matches? No, you can already get those with TrueSkill and even if you couldn’t, you certainly would have a better way to determine who is allowed to play and who isn’t than K/D.
> > >
> > > The whole idea is pointless and horrible to begin with. What point does anything in the idea serve? Why restrict party size to one? If you wanted to enforce competitive play, you’d want people to go into the playlist with their own teams. The whole idea of a playlist that leaves certain people out is pointless to begin with. Your arrangement only makes it all worse.
> >
> > First of all there has never been such a type of playlist in Halo, or for any FPS game that I know of.
> >
> > Second . . <mark>The two playlists I suggested would be only two playlists out of all the playlists that are in/will be in Halo 4.</mark>
> >
> > Third . . Numbers don’t lie, a KD spread is the best way to see if someone is good at getting kills, a 1.5 to 2.0 KD would show that a person goes positive a lot more then negative each game they play.
> >
> > Fourth . . I myself only have a 1.1 KD in Reach and worse in Halo 3, so I’m not a elitist or MLG person.
> >
> > Fifth . . Why so aggressive with the way you typed your reply ? I’m just wondering. I’m not trying to be -Yoink!- at all.
>
> <mark>1: There are reasons there are no playlists like this, as it says “Hog kills to get here” or “Betray people so you can get all the objectives and get into here”</mark>
>
> Ok I’ll explain how the playlists would be set up, people would start with a dmr, br, and two frag grenades, there would be no friendly fire, no vehicles, and re-spawn time would be five seconds, the score would be up to 50, also the only weapons in the playlist would be the dmr, br and frag grenades.
>
> <mark>2: But what if I wanted to play a skilled playlist with my brother? We share an xbox so its not fair that we can’t play this if we’re both good players.</mark>
>
> I’m sure 343 would have other playlists that would allow you to do that. Again this would be just 2 playlists out of all the matchmaking playlists that would be in Halo 4.
>
> 3: <mark>Thats complete bull. What if someone goes 30 20. Most consider that a bad score because they died twenty times. But they really played great. Just stop, K/D is crap and barely shows any means of skill at all. There are countless variables to take in when you think about K/D that just wouldn’t make it fair.</mark>
>
> Your example proves my point somewhat . . 30 kill’s in one game by one person is good, of course they could of just got lucky, but if you looked at there KD and saw that it was high, you could then see that they most likely get a lot of kills each game. And there for the are good at slayer . . Why you might ask . .
>
> Because they are able to deal with what’s coming at them quickly, they most likely get a lot of multi-kills, they most likely have a nice amount of perfections. All of those thing’s are tied to their KD spread.
>
> <mark>4: … I’ve got 1.3 in both and a positive in MLG.</mark>
>
> That’s very good, I bet you get the most kill’s in a lot of the games you play in, I wouldn’t want to be on the opposite team that you would be on. I’m not being a -Yoink- at all I really mean it, I bet you do very good in each game you play.
>
> <mark>5: Tensions are high. This just proves a point on my other thread. tsassi is generally respectful, not certain what prompted their reply.
[/quote]
</mark>
>
> I understand that, I was just wondering why he or she replied like that at first.

16

> what people fail to realize is that in order for someone to have a positive K/D there must be someone else with a negative one, same goes for W/L’s.

I realize that . . People can always improve their KD so they can access the two stats playlists, if they wanted to.

I’ve improved my KD in Reach, I use to have a KD that was under 1.0 . .

17

> > what people fail to realize is that in order for someone to have a positive K/D there must be someone else with a negative one, same goes for W/L’s.
>
> I realize that . . People can always improve their KD so they can access the two stats playlists, if they wanted to.
>
> I’ve improved my KD in Reach, I use to have a KD that was under 1.0 . .

thats very true, however its at the expense of someone else. you also have the problem that if your K/D goes down while playing in that playlist it would mean it wouldn’t allow you to play in it.

18

Haha, what do you think would result if every “2.0 kdr player” only played against 2.0 kdr players and no one else?

I will give you hint…

There will be less 2.0 kdr players.

This is why you can’t go solely on kdr.

I wish there was a way to analyze damage dealt verse damage received, and factor in accuracy percentage per weapon. Throw in a pinch of win/loss, assists, and objective time. Somehow being able to measure that and come up with a calculation or analysis would be my hope for measuring skill.

19

> > > what people fail to realize is that in order for someone to have a positive K/D there must be someone else with a negative one, same goes for W/L’s.
> >
> > I realize that . . People can always improve their KD so they can access the two stats playlists, if they wanted to.
> >
> > I’ve improved my KD in Reach, I use to have a KD that was under 1.0 . .
>
> thats very true, however its at the expense of someone else. you also have the problem that if your K/D goes down while playing in that playlist it would mean it wouldn’t allow you to play in it.

That’s the point though . . Say I played in the playlist, and went negative in a game, say I was already close to having my KD go down to below 1.5, I would be able to finish the game, but once I got back to the matchmaking lobby, a prompt would pop up saying “Your KD is not high enough, incresae your KD to gain access to this playlist”.

Say I went negative 10 that game =( I would need to get ten kill’s and no deaths in one game, or 7 kill’s and 2 deaths over two games in order to get my KD back over 1.5, and then I could access the playlist again.

20

> Haha, what do you think would result if every “2.0 kdr player” only played against 2.0 kdr players and no one else?
>
> I will give you hint…
>
> There will be less 2.0 kdr players.
>
>
> This is why you can’t go solely on kdr.
>
> I wish there was a way to analyze damage dealt verse damage received, and factor in accuracy percentage per weapon. Throw in a pinch of win/loss, assists, and objective time. Somehow being able to measure that and come up with a calculation or analysis would be my hope for measuring skill.

That’s the point though, of course people would get lower KD’s in such a competitive playlist.

But they could always improve the KD.

And something like what you said would be nice, but I doubt it would happen anytime soon on consoles, maybe sooner on pc’s though.