Halo 3 Retrospect: Any hope of stopping Thel/John?

One thing I thought about in regards to this question was the fact that Tartarus was a very very formidable opponent in Halo 2. He’s relentless, merciless, cruel, and incredibly driven. A perfect leader for the Covenant, capable of beating any great Spartan or Elite down. In essence, he’s a winner, if winning the war is your goal.

With Tartarus gone in Halo 3, it seems like there is a real vacuum in terms of a clear powerful adversary. Truth? Sure in terms of a great mind manipulator and an evil heart, but physically and military wise he’s a joke.

With the fact that Thel and John 117 are capable of beating whole units by themselves, was there ever any doubt they would mow through Covenant army after army?

Or was the race for the clock in activating the rings from the Ark their best shot at that point?

Just some thoughts and questions.

Well I very powerful adversary was the Gravemind and although he did die, his plan was complete, infect Cortana with the logic plague, go to the Ark for Chief to rescue her, the. Cortana clears the path making the galaxy defenceless for the Flood to attack. It’s all on a greater picture really. Well at least that’s how it seems to be set up and it’s a great way to being the flood back too.

Yeah, I’m kind of leaving the Gravemind and the Flood out of the equation for the moment since he appears to be orchestrating both sides.

Context assumes pretty much a Covenant point of view.

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> Well I very powerful adversary was the Gravemind and although he did die, his plan was complete, infect Cortana with the logic plague, go to the Ark for Chief to rescue her, the. Cortana clears the path making the galaxy defenceless for the Flood to attack. It’s all on a greater picture really. Well at least that’s how it seems to be set up and it’s a great way to being the flood back too.

Lol dude I think we’ve discussed this before and pretty much have the same theory…

To stay on topic for ya OP, I don’t really consider Tartarus to be a Covenant leader. What I mean is, yes he commanded military units and his pack, but he wasn’t pulling any strings like the Triumvirate or the High Council. He was one of the strings getting pulled. So in the end, Truth was the big Covenant baddie in both H2 and H3.

I’m an H3 fanboy at heart, but one thing I have to give credit to H2 for over H3 was the fact that there was someone like Tartarus. I mean you are right OP, there was no doubt that Arby n’ the Chief were gonna mow through whatever was thrown at them in H3, and that was because there wasn’t anyone like Tartarus to be the muscle to Truth’s brain. I think what H3 did to fill this role was keep putting Truth just out of reach of Chief and his alien bestie (Alien -Yoink- lol). So a good chunk of H3 was really just a chase. Then the stakes got ramped up when Truth actually tried to fire the rings. So instead of a specific enemy to fight like Tartarus, we are racing against a clock.

EDIT: I realize there actually was a Tartarus replacement, but he was a mini boss half way through the game and barely stacks up to Tartarus anyway imo

> To stay on topic for ya OP, I don’t really consider Tartarus to be a Covenant leader. What I mean is, yes he commanded military units and his pack, but he wasn’t pulling any strings like the Triumvirate or the High Council. He was one of the strings getting pulled. So in the end, Truth was the big Covenant baddie in both H2 and H3.

True, and it’s hard to say whether or not Tartarus is a military stud like Thel was for the Covenant.

> I mean you are right OP, there was no doubt that Arby n’ the Chief were gonna mow through whatever was thrown at them in H3, and that was because there wasn’t anyone like Tartarus to be the muscle to Truth’s brain.

This is what I was getting at mainly, more than anything. In Halo 2, you had this real tension between Thel and Tartarus that somewhere down the line you knew they were going to have to fight. Who is the toughest kid on the block sort of thing. Perhaps Tartarus isn’t this great military leader like Thel was (maybe, maybe not), but he fills the perfect role as the formidable plot antagonist that you know you are going to have to deal with. I like that kind of character quite a bit.

> I think what H3 did to fill this role was keep putting Truth just out of reach of Chief and his alien bestie (Alien -Yoink- lol).

Which leads to another retrospect analysis, we give Master Chief a lot of due credit for winning the Battle of Installation 04, with Thel as the unknown pursuing adversary at that time, and rightfully so, but it can’t be stated enough that Installation 04 would probably have been another sweeping victory for the mighty political clout brewing around Thel 'Vadamee, had it not been for the fact that Thel was battling the Prophet of Stewardship as to whom would have control over the military on the ring. Is the Arbiter, Chief’s equal? As unique soldiers on the battlefield, or on their own, they are fairly equivalent. As field admiral/general, strategist, leader, total military person, politician, etc? By my lights, Thel Vadam, is the greatest warrior in the Human-Covenant war, and the turning of the tide of the war. Probably not the strongest, probably not the fastest, probably not the best shooter, or any other individual quantifiable category, but just the greatest.

In Halo 6, if Thel isn’t the prime leader of the joint military operations of UNSC-Swords of Sangheilios against Cortana, than they aren’t interested in winning, not to mention the most developed and interesting character in the saga (Keith David really helps here too!). just my 2cts.

> 2535468208617669;2:
> Well I very powerful adversary was the Gravemind and although he did die, his plan was complete, infect Cortana with the logic plague, go to the Ark for Chief to rescue her, the. Cortana clears the path making the galaxy defenceless for the Flood to attack. It’s all on a greater picture really. Well at least that’s how it seems to be set up and it’s a great way to being the flood back too.

Basically it was just a huge line of brutes who were trying to fill the void of military leader of the covenant and no one measured up to tartarus

> Basically it was just a huge line of brutes who were trying to fill the void of military leader of the covenant and no one measured up to tartarus

Yep. Halo 3 is a fantastic game and story, but for the most part it feels like the Covenant is not a military player. Sure they have vast resources, but as Rtas said when one of his crew mentioned they out number us three to one, “then it is a fair fight.” Run that up to a factor of 200 on 2 if Chief and Arbiter happen to be in the fight. Your chasing a little worm around who can do nothing to defend himself once you eventually catch him. I miss that real Covenant badass figure.

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> > 2535468208617669;2:
> > Well I very powerful adversary was the Gravemind and although he did die, his plan was complete, infect Cortana with the logic plague, go to the Ark for Chief to rescue her, the. Cortana clears the path making the galaxy defenceless for the Flood to attack. It’s all on a greater picture really. Well at least that’s how it seems to be set up and it’s a great way to being the flood back too.
>
> Basically it was just a huge line of brutes who were trying to fill the void of military leader of the covenant and no one measured up to tartarus

I mean he was Chieftain of the Brutes after all. There were a few Chieftains such as the one in one of the three towers in “The Covenant” but again not a challenge for the Chief and the Brute certainly wasn’t Chieftain of the Brutes

Technically thel and chief wouldn’t have stopped truth until it was too late without the flood.

I hope that Halo infinite has a great villain like tartarus in halo 2. in the new Halo games the enemies are just kind of annoying. a good enemy needs to have a good enough motive to complete a task. tartarus was just following in what he believed in, loyal to the prophets until death. we need a good enemy that believe in what they are doing and will stop at nothing to achieve it even if it meant death. that’s just my opinion on what makes a great enemy in not just halo but any game.

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> I hope that Halo infinite has a great villain like tartarus in halo 2. in the new Halo games the enemies are just kind of annoying. a good enemy needs to have a good enough motive to complete a task. tartarus was just following in what he believed in, loyal to the prophets until death. we need a good enemy that believe in what they are doing and will stop at nothing to achieve it even if it meant death. that’s just my opinion on what makes a great enemy in not just halo but any game.

I concur too. It can’t be something like say Cortana either. It needs to be someone who is a BADDDDD dude. Need some fear.

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> Technically thel and chief wouldn’t have stopped truth until it was too late without the flood.

Maybe, maybe not. I dunno, that Gravemind likes to play games and is crafty. That thing took great pains to save Thel and Master Chief from certain death on Installation 05. It (he?) knew that it had an ace in the hole with those two being able to do anything they set their minds to.

It could very well be just another way of getting them to do its bidding, and after Truth is dead have them killed and get them out of the way.