Halo 2 Iron Skull change

I’ve been away from the game for a long time so I’m curious if the Iron Skull for Halo 2 been changed yet. It was hard coded in the original game for legendary co-op and now that we have this collected release with all the games having all these customisable options, it seems really silly to keep such a bad design choice locked to that particular game especially when ALL the other games in the series don’t play like this.

And before the purist trying to flex their E-Peen post their dumb argument of “ThAt’s ThE WaY iT wAS Meant 2 Be” I’ll ask you this: Is turning on the scarab skull and blasting my way through the campaign on legendary with zero difficulty “the way it was meant to be?” So please -Yoink!-, your arguments dead on arrival.

I’d like serious responses from anyone (including 343) who might know if this option is being looked at (or if it’s already been changed) to make the iron skull actually work as intended from the menu.

Technically that’s just how Halo 2 Legendary works - completely unrelated to the Iron Skull.

Legendary was later changed to not feature the checkpoint reset if one person dies in a co op game in future Halo titles.

So unfortunately I’m going to have to say “that’s the way it’s meant to be”…

As mentioned above, that’s not Iron skull. That’s just Halo 2 Legendary.

It’s how halo 2 functioned deal with it?

That is how Halo 2 was made, it has nothing to do with the iron skull; nobody is forcing you to play it on Legendary.

Also if you turn on the scarab skull and run through on Legendary that disables all achievements/challenges exc, sooo ya. Your statement “ThAt’s ThE WaY iT wAS Meant 2 Be”, well yes that was how the game was designed. That is for Legendary difficulty only. Your other quote

“I’d like serious responses from anyone (including 343) who might know if this option is being looked at (or if it’s already been changed) to make the iron skull actually work as intended from the menu.”

Well but your own words, well that is working as intended

If you just want to play Halo 2 with the “just right” difficulty (my personal opinion), just play on Heroic with the Anger skull turned on.

> 2533274800596559;3:
> As mentioned above, that’s not Iron skull. That’s just Halo 2 Legendary.

Halo 2 legendary on co-op was designed with the iron skull forced on. You can call it what you want, but functionally that’s what it is.

> 2533274955766492;5:
> That is how Halo 2 was made, it has nothing to do with the iron skull; nobody is forcing you to play it on Legendary.
>
> Also if you turn on the scarab skull and run through on Legendary that disables all achievements/challenges exc, sooo ya.

“Nobody is forcing me to play on legendary”. That is entirely missing the point and doesn’t even make sense. I WANT to play on legendary and have the same enjoyable experience as I do with every other game in the series.

My argument still stands with regards to the scarab skull. This collection was designed to be highly customisable and it seems really dumb that this would be the only thing that gets stuck. And if people are so concerned with achievements in a video game (I’m more concerned with real life achievements) -Yoinking!- turn them off then with this skull too. I just want to enjoy the game at it’s highest difficulty with my friends while still being fair like the other games in the series.

Halo 2 had the worst campaign in the series and it was partially due to it’s poorly designed difficulty spikes and the forces iron skull on legendary is just a slap in the face to the players. I played through it on legendary 15 years ago on the OG Xbox and it was the most frustrating experience I’ve ever had with a game. It makes sense to bring it in line with the rest of the series with a toggled option. I can’t see why anyone in their right mind would have a problem with this.

I believe bungie said in interviews and commentary’s (I could be wrong) that they intended to try and make halo 2 more difficult on legendary than halo ce, especially co op legendary. CE was a lot kinder on legendary especially so In co op. bungie decided to make it more challenging on there second time round. Hence why jackals snipers one shot you, enemy’s fire faster, harder and more accurate, and co op restarts checkpoints on death. It was their way of challenging the players as with ce you could just have someone stay back and the other charge in the room guns blazing with no consequences continuously respawning. They just wanted to make the experience more challenging. They went back to the ce style in their later halo releases (probably to do with the 4 player co op) but with halo 2, that’s how they wanted it to be, more challenging than halo ce. It was a great challenge for one of the best halo campaigns, it’s development was hell, the game engine is barely held together which makes it hard to add content to it (the scarab gun was already in the game so it was easy to add that in). It would be nice to see 343 maybe add in a co op specific non scoring silver skull to disable it for those who want that option to customise their gameplay further, it already has a great line up of skulls for those who want a challenge and those who want to vaporise everything with a scarab gun. Your comment about if blasting everything with the scarab gun the way it’s meant to be, originally back in 04 no, but now yes. That’s what the collection is about, just look at the acrophobia skull. It keeps it fresh while still keeping the option to stay true to the original. The challenge is still there for those who want it, and the crazy too. (Unfortunately for us both I like crazy). We’ll have to wait and see what 343 decide to do but it seems unlikely they will add an option to disable forced iron.

hope this helped a bit.

> 2533274838562802;7:
> > 2533274955766492;5:
> > That is how Halo 2 was made, it has nothing to do with the iron skull; nobody is forcing you to play it on Legendary.
> >
> > Also if you turn on the scarab skull and run through on Legendary that disables all achievements/challenges exc, sooo ya.
>
> “Nobody is forcing me to play on legendary”. That is entirely missing the point and doesn’t even make sense. I WANT to play on legendary and have the same enjoyable experience as I do with every other game in the series.
>
> My argument still stands with regards to the scarab skull. This collection was designed to be highly customisable and it seems really dumb that this would be the only thing that gets stuck. And if people are so concerned with achievements in a video game (I’m more concerned with real life achievements) -Yoinking!- turn them off then with this skull too. I just want to enjoy the game at it’s highest difficulty with my friends while still being fair like the other games in the series.
>
> Halo 2 had the worst campaign in the series and it was partially due to it’s poorly designed difficulty spikes and the forces iron skull on legendary is just a slap in the face to the players. I played through it on legendary 15 years ago on the OG Xbox and it was the most frustrating experience I’ve ever had with a game. It makes sense to bring it in line with the rest of the series with a toggled option. I can’t see why anyone in their right mind would have a problem with this.

Tons of people agree Halo 2 had the best campaign in the series, even new people to the series love the campaign. If you absolute hate the game, saying for you it’s the worse game in the entire series, why play it? I think Halo 5 is the worst campaign in the entire series, and so I don’t play it. Why would you play something you hate?

Ok so you want to just play on legendary, well than play it on legendary. Or you could like you said yourself, customize the difficulty with the skulls and play a perfect difficulty for you and your friends to enjoy. You have these options given to you, so use them (you could make it way harder than legendary as well). You want to play on the highest difficulty but at the same time don’t want to play on the highest difficulty is what I’m getting from this. Legendary as is was how they made it to be, everybody does agree though the sniper jackals need to be toned downed a bit. Levels on legendary without them is actually doable without ever getting killed. Levels with them though is a different story lol. Like person above me said, they could add a skull that disables the co op iron skull as a non scoring skull.

Edit: seriously, try heroic with anger skull. Makes Halo 2 feel like Halo CE legendary difficulty. Can be killed quick if you have poor positioning but fair, sniper jackals will no longer immediately delete you the nano second you turn a corner.

I believe this has all been covered, but I’ll summarize why this would not make sense. H2 was made to have Iron on by default so that you could not simply co-op-hop through the campaign by hurling yourselves at enemies, dying, respawning, and repeating. Making that something that can be toggled on/off changes up the entire game.

Also, if you hate the game and trash on its fans by making unrelated arguments (who, btw, broke all sorts of media records on day 1), I highly recommend not playing the game. As has been suggested, you can turn on a couple of skulls and play on Heroic to get the experience you want. Changing the game’s core philosophy is not a solution.

There is an argument to be made about putting in a 0x skull that makes it so you are not forced to revert to last checkpoint by default in co-op on Legendary, but that is something separate. I think it would be neat to have a skull like that. 343i has already done a great job adding all sorts of skulls to MCC. Perhaps it this one could be called “Diluted” or “Impure.” They sound like words Truth would use.

> 2533274838562802;7:
> > 2533274955766492;5:
> > That is how Halo 2 was made, it has nothing to do with the iron skull; nobody is forcing you to play it on Legendary.
> >
> > Also if you turn on the scarab skull and run through on Legendary that disables all achievements/challenges exc, sooo ya.
>
> “Nobody is forcing me to play on legendary”. That is entirely missing the point and doesn’t even make sense. I WANT to play on legendary and have the same enjoyable experience as I do with every other game in the series.
>
> My argument still stands with regards to the scarab skull. This collection was designed to be highly customisable and it seems really dumb that this would be the only thing that gets stuck. And if people are so concerned with achievements in a video game (I’m more concerned with real life achievements) -Yoinking!- turn them off then with this skull too. I just want to enjoy the game at it’s highest difficulty with my friends while still being fair like the other games in the series.
>
> Halo 2 had the worst campaign in the series and it was partially due to it’s poorly designed difficulty spikes and the forces iron skull on legendary is just a slap in the face to the players. I played through it on legendary 15 years ago on the OG Xbox and it was the most frustrating experience I’ve ever had with a game. It makes sense to bring it in line with the rest of the series with a toggled option. I can’t see why anyone in their right mind would have a problem with this.

H2 had a great sp and I’m guessing you don’t like a challenge. Play on heroic or deal with it.

This thread is hilarious. I see people saying “the game can’t be changed because it would change the philosophy of the design” then in the same breath saying “use these skulls to customize it to your liking”.

I do appreciate the suggestions given the options we currently have, but I’m asking for 343 to give us one more. There shouldn’t be a single person against this unless maybe you work for 343 and don’t want to dig into to the code base for Halo which is apparently a mess :joy:

With all the customizing options given to us through the skulls, I think one that turns off the checkpoint restart on co-op (and for those that care, they can turn off scoring) isn’t too much to ask.

And for the record, I didn’t hate the campaign for Halo 2 (why would I be posting about it if I did?) I just said it was the most frustrating experience and compared to the others, it was obvious that it was rushed (although given the development story of that game I’m amazed we got something even playable, let alone good).

> 2533274838562802;12:
> This thread is hilarious. I see people saying “the game can’t be changed because it would change the philosophy of the design” then in the same breath saying “use these skulls to customize it to your liking”.
>
> I do appreciate the suggestions given the options we currently have, but I’m asking for 343 to give us one more. There shouldn’t be a single person against this unless maybe you work for 343 and don’t want to dig into to the code base for Halo which is apparently a mess :joy:
>
> With all the customizing options given to us through the skulls, I think one that turns off the checkpoint restart on co-op (and for those that care, they can turn off scoring) isn’t too much to ask.
>
> And for the record, I didn’t hate the campaign for Halo 2 (why would I be posting about it if I did?) I just said it was the most frustrating experience and compared to the others, it was obvious that it was rushed (although given the development story of that game I’m amazed we got something even playable, let alone good).

It was their intent to make it harder. And they accomplished that. Using zero point skulls voids score and certain achievements so if you want certain ones you have to do it legit. H2 isn’t that hard once you know the missions and where enemies spawn and how the behave. Once again deal
with it or don’t get achievements or play heroic there are your options

“Halo 2 had the worst campaign”

This is a classic case of someone not understanding that challenging things are supposed to be challenging. People like you are why Legendary is a joke in Halo 3 and onward, which is to say, a casual.

> 2533274812371483;14:
> “Halo 2 had the worst campaign”
>
> This is a classic case of someone not understanding that challenging things are supposed to be challenging. People like you are why Legendary is a joke in Halo 3 and onward, which is to say, a casual.

H3 legendary is neutered so hard it isn’t a challenge

> 2533274955766492;5:
> Also if you turn on the scarab skull and run through on Legendary that disables all achievements/challenges exc, sooo ya. Your statement “ThAt’s ThE WaY iT wAS Meant 2 Be”, well yes that was how the game was designed. That is for Legendary difficulty only. Your other quote

The Scarab skull and few other score nullifying skulls are incredibly useful when you attempt to obtain certain achievements like the no vehicle achievements or certain eastern egg achievements.

> 2533274812371483;14:
> “Halo 2 had the worst campaign”
>
> This is a classic case of someone not understanding that challenging things are supposed to be challenging. People like you are why Legendary is a joke in Halo 3 and onward, which is to say, a casual.

I personally like H2, but even I have to admit Legendary really tends to bring out some of the game’s more crippling flaws, such as your paper-thin shield, pin-point accuracy from enemies, extremely long arena segments without checkpoints, spawning under fire (Gravemind), bad enemy spawns that force you to creep up to trigger them and then immediately run away under consequence of death, the game basically forcing you to have noob combo and/or snipe enemies from afar, enemy vehicles varying in tankiness depending on what rank of elite is driving them, vehicles becoming wet toilet paper as soon as you set foot inside them, the list goes on.

I’m not saying we should remove the innate Iron from Legendary co-op, I just want to point out that H2 Legendary is by no means a well-designed, skill-based difficulty like you claim. I’d argue that CE has the actually challenging Legendary that requires skill. H2’s is just a straight BS mode that relies largely on luck, exploits, and being extremely passive. If you want to make a game ‘challenging’, this is not the way to do it.

1 Like

That is the way Bungie designed the Legendary difficulty of Halo 2, so to change that now would be changing an integral piece of Halo 2’s campaign. I would prefer it stay and not change from the original.

Just reset checkpoint if you’re playing solo. If you’re playing on co-op it might be better anyway because you’ll restart with you weapons.

> 2533274838562802;6:
> > 2533274800596559;3:
> > As mentioned above, that’s not Iron skull. That’s just Halo 2 Legendary.
>
> Halo 2 legendary on co-op was designed with the iron skull forced on. You can call it what you want, but functionally that’s what it is.

You’re thinking about it from a future perspective, instead of a ‘at the time perspective’

When Halo 2 was made, Iron Skull didn’t even exist.

So no, Halo 2 legendary co-op was not designed with the iron skull forced on.

The Iron skull was designed in Halo 3 (and in future games) to make co-op act like Halo 2 Legendary co-op.

> 2533274838562802;1:
> And before the purist trying to flex their E-Peen post their dumb argument of “ThAt’s ThE WaY iT wAS Meant 2 Be” I’ll ask you this: Is turning on the scarab skull and blasting my way through the campaign on legendary with zero difficulty “the way it was meant to be?” So please -Yoink!-, your arguments dead on arrival.

This argument doesn’t hold up, because playing through on legendary with the scarab skull will not net you the legendary completion achievement. So you’re right, playing through with the scarab skull was not “the way it was meant to be.”

If anything - I’d settle for a skull that DISABLES the ‘iron effect’ in Halo 2 Legendary co-op - but this should be a 0 scoring skull to disable the completion achievements.
At least this way, people that want to play H2 co-op on the difficulty of Legendary, can have that experience without respawning to checkpoint all the time - just won’t get any achievements for it.