Why are you comparing games that are 15 years old to this one that came out in 2021?
Sounds like you got zero friends lmao
Is that why you’re here?
good point, they do have equal amounts of maps at launch… but here’s my counter point…
the maps in 2/3 were unique. different. at least they felt different… the ones in infinite feel practically the same. 3 lane… the only map i’d say is actually good is recharge. along with behemoth, those’re the only two memorable maps… i mean, the styles of the other maps are nice, but that doesn’t mean they’re good maps
Its because 343 went hard on the esports scene and that crap requires everything to be a “4 square” design. Look at CS:GO and compare it to CS 1.6 and CS:S and notice how many maps now are basically “equal” with no one map having a real hard advantage for one side or the other. 343 halo is like this, the maps are all designed to be even or somewhat mirrored.
Vehicle combat is there as a token gesture for their BTB maps, its as you said all “3 lane” gameplay with vehicles that make Reach’s look strong and useful. Everything has to traverse these paths that have tons of ambush points for on foot players to counter the vehicles hard. You won’t see a Timberland, Death Island, Blood Gulch, Avalanche style map with large open areas for vehicles primarily to maneuver in. You also won’t see anything in the vein of Zanzibar, Terminal, or any map where Defenders and attackers have a largely different terrain set-up
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Oh, let’s do.
So let’s take the post you quoted with this.
The issues with it is that on different accounts development started later, or earlier than the release of Halo 5, depending on what you’d regard as part of the development.
And partially, no, they didn’t really develop a new engine, the Slipspace Engine is derived from the blam! engine. Information readily available in this very thread if you read a little further than 10-20 posts down from the start.
And yes, Covid hit.
The thing here is though, Halo Infinite had been in the pipeline for a long time at that point, and, the first gameplay glimpse we got from it, was from a game supposed to launch five months later, it didn’t run on the Xbox one Series X at the demonstration, and we can’t forget that the feedback they got produced an entire year worth of a delay, and we still got a mess of a release with many of the flight and beta issues not being even adressed, and patches breaking things further.
While other games showcased at the same time looked better, seemed to perform better, and released earlier as well. Blame covid all you want, but Halo Infinite released in a state that is similar to many games pre-dating Covid, and it’s even more astonishing that a year delay, a time in which most companies and employees learned to work from home and in quite a few cases grew to be better and more efficient, still produced a poor release.
i343 is not getting a free pass on this due to covid, when it’s surfaced that the entire development process has been riled with management issues and workforce problem.
I mean, why would you make a game using contract workers who’d come in, have to learn how to work with, for them, a new engine over a period of time, get something done, and then get replaced by someone else who has to repeat the process?
How messed up is messed up?
Remember they had to decouple the playlists and the challenge system to put in new playlists.
The Store UI doesn’t allow individual items to be added.
WHAT?
A glitch or bug is an unintended function in a code or program.
Those two examples are deliberate decisions taken by people at i343, you don’t get to blame that on Covid.
Whenever someone starts waving the “entitled” card around, I just see someone who lacks standards.
Campaign and the Battlepass is filled with filler content which lacks any form of value.
Playlist amount is getting better but was extremely poor at the start, game modes are extremely few, and the challenge system as well as the battlepass system is as basic and plain as they get, there’s no fun quirks or anything in it, it’s just a bottleneck of chores to do and a basic square box unlock system, with consumable items to help you further along the line, or speed it up. Among Us has a network system of items in their battlepasses where the user picks what they want to unlock as they go.
But wait, there’s more, we still don’t have the promised roadmap, not that a roadmap is of any reliance to begin with, i343 actually managed to make fiesta, a goofy mode unbearable through the usage of dumbluck challenges and an overwhelming number of them as well, for an Ancient Japanese themed armor event. It’s as disconnected as it gets.
Buut, if I do expect a better product, let’s say, a campaign with basic functions like mission selection, and story content going on a little bit longer than getting to complete it in under six hours, a good selection of game modes, functioning customs, forge, co-op ( both promised to be available at launch ), a sweet theatre mode and a pleasent customisation system which actually is “players first”. And not i343’s equivalent of Anthem or Marvel’s Avengers, then yeah, maybe I am entitled.
I wouldn’t say that’s of any concern to the customer, but ok?
For someone who rails on another for reading, you sure took a deep dive on that one.
Do you think anyone actually expects, or demands, game developers work 24/7 on games? If I didn’t know better, I’d say this is a subtle blame game. Anyone having expectations on the game being more than it eventually ended up being, should be ashamed of themselves for apparently thinking the devs worked 24/7, or, that the devs didn’t and now those expecting a little more are upset with the end product.
Not only is timing issues not an issue for the common employee, but an issue for the management, either scale the project down to current man power manageable levels or get more manpower onboard to not overburden the current work force.
If your first get-go thing to do when harking on people who have an issue with products is to go “oh but think of the potentially overworked employees”, you’re barking up the wrong tree.
Mine, and others’ issue is the end product, not that the workforce who did work on it didn’t work hard enough, it’s that management failed them and they failed to deliver a quality product. Our issue is with the product, with the company, not the employees making the darn thing.
As I already mentioned, covid had at the point of first reveal been but a small part of the development time.
Also, on a personal note, while many here in my area were hesitant to work from home, a lot of them actually started doing better work, as well as feeling better because they didn’t need to spend hours every week to commute, as well as take care of personal things or take care of kids and their business without stressing anyone out because they had to hurry to work etc. Plenty of companies here allow workers to continue working from home despite there being no restrictions in place in a lot of places anymore.
My workplace has done a lot of improvements due to covid, both directly and indirectly.
A system was developed to allow customers to see the end product without traveling and spending days or even weeks at this location, making it easier on everyone on Factory Acceptance Tests. Hygiene has improved a lot and that reduced normal flu and other illnesses. A lower workload allowed the company to restructure the inside more freely to make the entire factory more efficient, cleaner and safer.
Schools have suffered, that’s true, but the industry? That has improved as benefits of both on-site and from-home work can be freely utilised as the people see fit and what they feel for.
Game developers are not the same people who develop new 3D modeling programs, sound design software or programming language updates and tools.
They’re also not the same developers who construct distance applications like Azure, Teams, Skype, Discord, GitHuB and whatever other net based video/sharing application is in use, and has been in use long before Covid-19 was a thing.
I’d say I’m fairly safe to say that you’re the only one who drew this kind of long-shot conclusion from, basically nothing.
And, how is that then different from pre-Covid times?
Then, if new software is making leaps in usability so much so that it sends users back to some sort of long learning phase, if the benefit of the update is not to speed up the process at some point, what’s the point in updating it so much so that experienced users are set back a lot on how efficiently they can use a product?
Or, why would a company start using an entirely new update if it means their experienced users are handicapped and not efficient?
And this has something to do with i343’s Halo Infinite, how exactly?
The Surface wasn’t developed by i343 people, and neither was Infinite developed by Surface people.
Microsoft is the publisher and i343 is essentially it’s own company. The surface part of Microsoft has literally zero things to do with i343.
Behemoth and Launch Site do feel like lower quality, or, they’re not utilised properly, with a higher player count which could make the maps feel better.
Them coming doesn’t change that they’re not here at the moment, or that they weren’t present at launch.
The only new mode I can give you, is Attrition, which is essentially a Slayer variant.
Other than that, no new modes to speak of, next new one coming as far as I’m concerned is KotH, potentially for Season 2 which still is far off.
Fiesta, Tactical Slayer and FFA are all Slayer.
Quick Match use Slayer, CTF, Strongholds and Oddball.
BTB Slayer, CTF, Stockpile and Total Control.
Ranked? No special mode there not present in any other list.
Sure, KotH, Assault, Invasion, Headhunter or any other new mode isn’t present, Armor Coats aren’t color customizable, and the battlepass wasn’t gutted, to name a few things, not because decision were made to do all that, but things outside the company happened.
I’m fairly certain you’re aware that there are big modding communities who do infact spend a considerable amount of their own time producing new quality content for games they enjoy.
That’s also a community which have proven to be a valuable asset in games and their longevity, which would only be beneficial to Halo Infinite.
The thing is though, that’s something that i343 would’ve needed to decide on as they made the game.
Only if i343 had made it easy, but they clearly didn’t, as they haven’t really made it easy on themselves either. I mean, decoupling the challenges from the playlists as they had issues making new playlists? UI issues in the store preventing single items to be added?
No, at this point it can’t be easy, but maybe it is easy to add new maps. Forge is incoming and that’s a ingame map tool which increases the amount of maps available for the game.
There’s potential for i343 to alter the engine / game to recognize user made maps.
In terms of maps, I’d say it’s quite a good way of making new content.
Depends on what you’re asking for, but given the post and demeanour, I’d say you’re looking for a tall order.
Not really certain why you entered that path, because that has nothing to do with anything.
What kind of realm have you entered here?
I always try to proof read my posts, but I’m certain most are riddled with errors. However, if you want to take the path on bashing someone’s grammar, and then follow up with reduced “credibility”, you may want to go through your own post. Should be spot free, no?
So, you’re aware that this thread is over 200 posts long, right?
You took a short post, responded to it with a slightly longer post, where you not only rambled on about employee personal time, but started talking about disc moons.
Had you taken the time to read through the thread you’d have found that a lot was written on the very subject you touched, throughout the thread. Not only this, but you made some pretty significant, and may I say down right idiotic assumptions, on people you think you argue with, who you think you’re responding to.
DISC MOONS? The credibility of whom exactly is taking a hit?
You may not intentionally use it as such, but you’re doing it anyway.
History is recorded and taught for a few different reasons.
But, looking back at gaming releases over the years, point at crappy ones and say “I guess we didn’t do so bad after all” isn’t one of them.
If you crap your pants one day next to a restroom, I don’t care how many others previous pants crappers you may point to, you still did it, you didn’t learn from history.
Because playing the “entitlement” card, answering some hysterically made up impossible stereotype and then not tell a person what kind of false information they’re peddling is so much better? That sort of stuff really pegs that good ol’ credibility up a notch or three.
Especially when you post about stuff that has been discussed plenty in the very thread you tell someone else to read up on, and you bring that stuff up as if it’s they very first time.
Let’s see how Infinite holds up on its own then, without any external source of comparison.
The Campaign is story wise short and doesn’t really go anywhere, it slightly resolve a starting thing and starts a new, nothing of importance really happen.
In terms of gameplay it features little memorable moments, because as soon as you enter non-scripted missions it’s a big meadow with repetitive encounters and objectives strewn across the field.
Auto save function can really screw with the progress of the game if you’re unlucky and most of the things to do progress the plot no further but act as meaningless fillers which also feel inconsequential as you progress. Destroying Propaganda pylons achieves nothing, the only big objective out of, six? is opening the big gate to allow faster access with a warthog through a certain area. Killing targets reward you with a few weapons, most of which you won’t use because only a few select ones are worth anything and in story missions you don’t get refills, and marines can’t join you from the open-world part.
Then we don’t get to redo missions unless we restart the campaign, bosses are basic damage sponges,
Theatre is a mess with a cluttered UI, poor controls, non-locally saved files, just being generally unintuitive.
The Challenge system is boring and restrictive, it’s FOMO and Chores all around. Battlepass features a lot of consumables which only only help leveling it up faster, which defeats the purpose of having it and them in the first place.
Customizations are sparse and few, also limited with the Armor Corse meaning you can’t take a Coat you unlocked for one and apply it to another core, same with Visors. It sort of makes sense for armor parts, in terms of clipping but the Yoroi pieces clip a lot regardless, and bots can equip pieces cross-core anyway.
Bots aren’t challenging, they’re as basic as they can get, and often a detriment to the team they end up on if there’s a drop out.
It’s not that great of a product.
Not even 7:3, since behemoth and launch don’t exist in ranked (because they are basically 8v8 maps jammed into the 4v4 playlists). So if you hate the extreme brokenness of the ar spam playlists you only get 5 maps to play, none of which have more than 3 playable modes to break up the monotony.
Also, the btb maps feel pretty identical to each other since there is no real variation in style of either the art or map geometry. The only one I can tell apart is the one where it’s night, so it feels like there are 2 btb maps and 5 arena maps, even if there are supposedly 3 and 7.
Preparing to see how the apologists handle this post. My bet is a counter post of chinese construction
I agree with the parts where you talked about the map preferences and game modes in Infinite. You clearly missed the point on pretty much everything else in my post.
Also: “Credibility” is indeed the correct spelling. You typed it yourself.
Check your reply where you claim I actually believe in disc moons. It’s one of the sections where you completely missed the point of what I said.
You proofread your posts, you say? Sure, everyone misses errors, but at least know what you’re saying before you say it. And yes, “proofread” is one word.
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I agree about the esports part. I feel that Halo in general has been built around esports since Halo 5. It’s disappointing
I see you’re continuing the trend of not pointing out anything, just claiming it.
Either I didn’t miss any points, but you make a blind shot attempt at discrediting things I said by saying I didn’t get what you said, without addressing any of the missed things because you’re unable to defend it.
Or, you are incapable of pinpoiting your own points in your own post, so much so that you aren’t able to defend it.
What was that?
Right, let’s take this.
Good thing I did spell it right then, however, the point here wasn’t to highlight credibility as a word, but put emphasis on it as you, instead of discussing what’s being talked about, don’t keep to topic but avoid it altogether by attacking the person and the way it’s written. Especially with how you attack the post’s grammar, and then talk about being credible, when your own post has some stuff on its own.
Like three sentences in a row starting with the exact same word and and some commas which would be good here and there. Let’s skip to the good part, one of the biggest things you forget to even account for in your basic attempt at discrediting what’s being said by not addressing what’s said, but how it’s said and written. Not everyone’s mother tongue is English, heck, not even every native English speaker can produce perfect sentences. The only actual thing that matters in that department, is that the individual actually try to make it understandable and don’t go out of their way to make a grammatical mess on purpose.
If you want others to take you seriously, you better stop talking about other people’s credibility and stop focusing on crap not mattering. Your credibility takes a huge dip when you dismiss an entire post through, not argumentation, but through Ad hominem, like criticising another person’s ability to spell;
Following that with stuff on credibility, like it’s going to do yours any good.
Oh boy.
Nowhere did I claim you believe in a disc moon.
You started talking about conspiracy level beliefs you think Halo Infinite critics who wish for more content, who wanted more content at launch. Either you actually believe people who want more content is on that track, or you try to ridicule the opposition to the point where they’d be afraid to speak up, not to appear, in your mind at least, as a total nutter. The only thing you just failed at is that no one has actually expressed anything even remotely close to what you’re rambling on about. There’s no substance in the claims you make, there’s no value in it. The closest real world aspect is people saying i343 wants to make money, and you’d have to refute that, not make up a conspiracy theory you say critics believe in.
However, if that’s not the point you better explain it better than you’ve managed to so far.
Ah yes, the many yet to be pointed out missed points, which remain being nailed right in the head until you produce a text going through every single one of those supposed missed points, explaining what the actually points are, and how I missed them.
Oh no.
So anyways.
For someone talking about credibility you sure don’t look after your own.
What is credibility? It’s basically belief. How believable someone is, are they reliable, trustworthy?
You come into this thread, take the first best post you can find and just go with it, not reading the rest of the thread. Making it extremely obvious by not just saying you didn’t bother to read the large thread, but by bringing up basically everything which has already been discussed in this very thread.
Not only that but you take some fantasy conspiracy theory and nailing it to the opposition, and I don’t know which one is worse, that you either came up with it on the spot, meaning you had nothing better to actually say so you ran with that. Or that you had hatched that idea long before hand and just found what you think is the best opportunity to showcase that thought.
Does any of that help your own credibility?
Then, we of course have the answer. Not addressing the post, but talking about it, not even just the post.
It’s grammar, understanding the post answered to, then you bring in gaming release history and information on the topic at hand.
As I already somewhat already touched, speaking grammar when you answer a post isn’t a way of addressing it, it’s not continuing the discussion, it adds nothing of value, especially if you do not even attempt to start to point out any of those errors. It’s a poor attempt at discrediting the opponent, not by taking on what they wrote, but how they wrote it. Ad Hominem. Shall I continue? Of course I will.
Not only are you leaving their argument intact because you never actually do anything with it. You show little regards to any factor which may contribute to poor spelling and grammar, such as, the poster not having English as their native language, and that the poster’s other language may not even use the same alphabet as the English one, complicating things for non-English speakers further, then there’s of course dyslexia which may contribute. Not to mention, grammar and spelling rarely have anything to do with credibility.
What, we’re not to believe that Halo 3 launched with Theatre and Forge because there were some grammatical errors in the post? Or that Halo 3 didn’t introduce armor customization?
Do you think what you’ve said leaves your own credibility intact? Or improved?
Moving on to reading over the person’s post.
Rather than moving the discussion forward and getting something out it by showcasing what the problem is, you’re happy with just saying “no” and then go on about the person’s credibility.
The discussion is not progressing, and with your answer, you may as well just have not posted at all. What were you trying to accomplish with it even? Them taking a new look at the post and try again?
As long as you don’t actually challenge what’s being said, and only take cheap pot shots at how it’s said, you don’t actually disprove it.
How credible does that make you?
Video game release history, now that’s something which you didn’t talk about at all in your post.
Rather than explain this, you just bring it in and say it harms their credibility that they supposedly doesn’t know it. Literally no one else knows which part of the history you’re referring to, as if by just mentioning it magically makes everyone realise which part of it you mean. The best bet I could do with how you defended Infinite’s release and lack of content, was interpreting it so that you’re pointing at other low content poor releases previous to Halo Infinite.
Apparently I either missed the point, or it’s not actually bad to crap ones pants as long as someone else did it worse before.
What credibility do you think you gain from just “name dropping” something completely irrelevant as if it discredit what’s being said, and then talk about taking hits to their credibility.
You have yet to even talk about it further, after it was brought up.
Lastly, reading over the information related to the topic being discussed.
The post you quoted was the second post in the entire thread, and you went over stuff which has been discussed in this thread already, bringing up old points already talked about.
Lazy at best, hypocritic at worst.
Credibility?
Telling someone they missed a point without actually saying what the issue is, doesn’t help in any way, at all.
After going on of a massive rant featuring the government and disc moons ( which you attribute to being the belief of others ), do you think anyone will believe you when you just say a point is missed? In my mind, as long as you didn’t specify what, then no point is missed and you’re just blindly flailing to be right, throwing out baseless accusations.
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Halo 2 and Halo 3 had solid map. Infinite maps are all boring if you compare them to Halo 2 and Halo 3.
My big issue with the maps is the quality, not the quantity. All the Infinite maps are designed with e-sports in mind and all feel the same with just a different coat of paint.
Going back to the H2 maps, each map had a unique experience. Ascension played different than Lockout which played different than Ivory Tower, etc.
Now each map is played to the outside with a push to the centre to get the power weapon/power up and retreat to the outside lane. There is no experience tied to the maps.
I have sweet memories of those old map. I remember that bridge with man-cannon on both side that would launch you across the map, in Halo 3. And Zenzibar in Halo 2… the map is almost as big as a big team battle map from Halo Infinite, but we would play 4 player free-for-all on that and had a blast!
These forums aren’t a protest the wages/working conditions of 343i.
No expects thing to be simple. But we would assume they would have a foundation for a decent set of maps for release
Always a hint of forerunners with the current to warring factions flavored between.
If all the maps have pretty much the same atmosphere yes its a problem
They actually did start after halo 5
Map Quality, the versatility of how they were used in playlists and visual diversity are all important. Halo 5 had many maps but half were remixes and most looked the same (UNSC, grey, tubes, no personality).
However if you are to put those other dimensions aside lets look.
Halo 2 technically had 11 maps (foundation unlock obscure)
Foundation was made available to live users a week in
The bonus map pack was free and contained 2 maps (containment & warlock), this was 5.5 months into release April 25th.
At the same time Killtacular map pack was released for 5 USD which had Sanctuary and Turf. It was also made free before July.
July 5th Maptacular released with 5 maps; backwash, gemini, elongation, relic and terminal for 12 USD. It was made free at the end of August.
That same day, July 5th the multiplayer map pack disc released which had those 9 maps + foundation, the first few xbl updates to play offline and additional content for 20 USD.
There was H2 vista and another map pack at the end of it’s lifespan but they don’t matter much. Halo 2 had 21 maps, most classics, and a few major updates in under 8 months, all made free like 2 months after their release.
I can’t be bothered doing the same detail for 3 and Reach but remember 3 also had a good flow of maps, a working theater, forge, file browser as well as a good range of gamemodes and playlists. Reach also had this as well as a fully fleshed out firefight mode.
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Launch site shouldn’t even be considered a map. In my OPINION, it is literally the worst Halo map ever created. I’d rather play Backwash from Halo 2 on an xbox 360 with the screen tearing/burn than play Launch Site ever again.
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Halo 3 did not have forge at launch. Halo Reach and Halo 4 we’re the only Halo games with forge at launch.