There’s a lot of criticism on here about various things, a lot of which I agree with.
But one thing I think is a bit unfair only a few weeks into the 10 year game is that there’s a lack of maps and 343i need to release more urgently.
There’s currently 10 available in Infinite and Halo 2 and 3 only had 11 at launch, so it’s not massively different.
What do people think about this?
Also, I need to check my Reach and Halo 4 guides to see how many they had at launch.
Edit: a lot of people have pointed out they’ve had several years and hundreds of millions of dollars to produce this, also the maps are a 7:3 split in terms of 4v4/BTB so potentially only 7 maps if you prefer certain playlists. All valid points, cheers for the discussion everyone
it took 6 years for 343 to give as Halo Infinite, 7/3 maps is not acceptable at any way you see it, even CoD gives as more maps every year.
Reskin old maps and ship them, i believe that is easy and modders would do it in a week or two.
Development only started three years ago. Sure it was six years between Halo 5 and Halo Infinite, but they didn’t start IMMEDIATELY.
On top of that they built a new engine for the game.
ON TOP OF THAT
Covid slowed production and even halted it .
It’s a 2021 game, not to mention we’ve been waiting six years, most of the maps are terrible, BTB is probably unplayable, and the core 4v4 mode only has four maps.
Don’t make excuses for the 343i, okay?
They won’t thank you. We put up with 343 for a long time, and all they give us in return is half-finished games and pricier decorations.
Can you design a comprehensive and realistic 3D model of a landscape in an engine that is entirely experimental for new hardware that you do not yet know the full limitations of, providing concept after concept, modeling and remodeling until you have a final draft that feels balanced, fresh yet classic, fits well within the weapons and vehicle sandbox established by another part of the team AND the map is designed to work smoothly with the mobility systems set up during development?
Because one thing that most people don’t realize is that yes, Classic Halo had a lot of maps to offer at launch and post launch.
BUT those maps were low-poly and low texture in a game where your mobility options were walking and driving.
Low poly maps means that minimal effort needs to be put in to make the topography of the map. Meanwhile the modern triple-A game requires A LOT MORE EFFORT to be put in all to reach the same end-goal - a map that is fun to play in and offers replayability.
I am the last person that likes to defend 343 Industries, given the MANY terrible decisions they made for Halo 4 and Halo 5 Guardians.
But this is a basic issue that all develops face off with.
Also fun fact, the only reason Call of Duty has a lot more maps is because they commission other companies to make them. You know Certain Affinity? The guys behind Halo 2 Anniversary’s Multiplayer, Halo Reach’s Anniversary Map Pack, Halo 5’s Forge Mode, and Halo Infinite’s upcoming Forge Mode?
Well they are also behind the multiplayer mode of Doom 2016 and about 3/4 of the DLC Maps featured in many shooters like Gears of War, Call of Duty, Medal of Honor, and so many more.
10/11 Halo 3 maps are playable in the standard rotation of games and are mostly beloved gems.
Three of those Infinite maps are BTB maps which doesn’t work and are dead to me currently without BR starts.
Plus Behemoth gets a lot of hate as does Launch Site. They just plain suck. As much as I like Bazaar it doesn’t play particularly well with a BR start either.
Big Team Battle is having glitchy issues, but they are being fixed.
I don’t know why everyone is hopped up about BR starts. Halo 2 was the only one that did that and people seem obsessed with replicating that bit of nostalgia. It already exists in Ranked and SWAT as the default.
Behemoth is an amazing map that offers a symmetrical map with vehicular and sniper combat without the sniper combat being able to see 90% of the map at all times, which was a problem in classic Halo. Whichever team had the sniper on maps like Blood Gulch or Sand Trap were the ones that picked off people attempting the approach.
Launch Site I can see some hate getting because of its Asymmetrical design being akin to an uphill battle, but wasn’t High Ground one such map in Halo 3?
Bazaar is oddly enough a well made map for close-mid combat. And since you mention BR starts, I can kinda agree. But that is because the BR is weaker than the AR and Sidekick when it comes to tighter maps. You need range to make it truly effective now rather than it being a weapon to trump most others in the match like it was in Halo 2 and 4.
lol There’s that ridiculous argument again.
According to your conclusion, if you play a game and comment on a game, you must be able to develop games?
The fact is that as a 2021 release of 343 called FTB eSports game, this is not qualified cut in half.
The novel coronavirus epidemic is indeed a big problem,but instead of explaining the reason for the half-finished product, they turned the game into a continuously updated FTB game, which is genius.
Cod has outsourced a lot of content, and the game is very rough because of the epidemic, but Halo Infinite has used a lot of outsourcing contract workers, 343 can also be outsourced to other studios to make maps.so there is no excuse for 343 at this point.
The game was develop six years ago, and only a few rumors can reveal why the actual development time is less than six years.
We spent more time waiting for a game that is less complete than H5 and can’t comment on it?
Do you remember how long it took 343 to repair MCC to a fully playable state?
Now the criticism of PVP is far more than maps, if only the lack of maps I would agree with you.
I’m sick of 343’s lies and low productivity, that’s all.
It’s your freedom to defend 343 and think it’s fine now, but it’s hard to convince people.
Im not saying you cannot comment on it. I am merely providing context as to WHY it is like this in the first place.
PLUS the reason why they had to release it around this time is because of the money.
Investors put their money into game design because of how profitable it is. And triple-A game releases are still problematic because you have to be careful of when you launch your title because if it launches too close to another Triple-A title that has a similar target audience, you won’t rake in a lot of profits at first. So you have to set your windows and keep to it.
Covid delayed production and made Halo Infinite miss its original window. Which created a problem with investors.
“I gave you $20,000 and you signed a contract that said you would have enough profits to pay me back the $25,000 that the contract promised me. BUT NOW WE HAVE DELAYED AND MISSED THE DEADLINE ! So now my accountants and the contract state that you owe me $25,000 PLUS a 60% interest rate for the late fee.”
Basically it is a loan shark type of problem.
So in order to keep that percent of interest from going any higher, 343 had to launch the game and go back on their promises of “most cosmetics available without money being spent” in order to rack up the profits needed to satisfy their investors/company shareholders.
I’m not defending 343. I’m just explaining the business practices that led up to this sloppy presentation. They had to make a decision otherwise they would be one step closer to filing for bankruptcy and Microsoft would have to make ANOTHER studio to finish what 343 started. And given the LAST TIME the series changed hands everyone lost their minds, I don’t think we would want to risk that.
The problem is that Halo infinite maps are horrible. None of them compare to lockout or Valhalla.
Also just because they have the same amount or close to it doesn’t mean the game lacks content. Map count can go only so far when the rest of the game attached to it is bare
No one told them to scrap the reclaimer saga. If your saying they only started development 3 years ago then covid isn’t an excuse. They wasted 3 years doing nothing. And don’t tell me they didn’t when Phil Spencer came out the night of Halo 5s launch and stated that the next game was already being worked on.
The simple fact is. 343 dropped the ball again. The only saving grace at this point is forge.
no update. No new map is going to save this game.
Launch site is just slow and boring. Half the time I get slayer on it the game ends with the timer. That’s when my 3 friends and I don’t immediately quit.
Behemoth has plenty of problems especially with the spawns in ranked play. If half of the useless open space around the edges were gone I think it would be a pretty tight map. I’m heavily biased against having vehicles outside of BTB.
BTB with AR starts is a total chore. The longer ranges mean the sidekick’s aim assist doesn’t kick in and getting AR peppered is just an annoyance. Having to wait around to get a usable weapon isn’t fun for me.
It’s because alot of Infinite’s maps are essentially 3 lane maps. This means no matter how many maps there are with variety, they all play relatively the same.
The only few maps that play uniquely to their design are:
Launchsite
Fragmentation
Recharge
Highpower
The rest are pretty much glorified 3 lane maps. I actually hesitate to even put Launchsite up there but due to the fact it plays DIFFERENTLY is why I decided to list it.
Three years to write a script, edit it, and then after who knows how many drafts; finalize it.
Three years to make INSANE 3D MODELS and establish the art style agian.
Three years to get the audio to be balanced right.
Three years to market the game, set up the time slot.
Covid happened TWO YEARS AGO, and only about a year ago have people been returned to offices instead of working from home. And we still have to wear masks and keep our distance from one another.
A LOT of stuff goes into game design, ESPECIALLY triple-A content.
And that next game Phil Spencer was talking about was Halo Wars 2.
The dev team is over 500 people and had multiple other teams assisting in the game.
and this billion dollar franchise is attempting to be brought back to the heights or at least compete with modern shooters.
It is unacceptable and if the game wasn’t free to play it would have gotten destroyed online in reviews for broken BTB and only having 7 MAPS and 3 BTB.
No forge and no CO OP either… Gotta accept the truth and stop making excuses for this weak state of the game.
Also, figure out the technique being used to separate the single player and the multi-player…
This has one advantage for a dev/pub/game not often spoke on… Which is it allows the crap reviews that the multi-player or one side of the package would/could have gotten, to not negatively effect the score of the rest of the package.
It is clear manipulation.
The campaign got judged completely outside of the multi-player experience… And what do you know, most major reviews didn’t address this or even review the multi-player…
These are shady business practices.
IF not shipping with forge or Co OP then that is unacceptable levels of service for a live service.
IF Xbox hadn’t shipped sea of thieves and gears of War as bare bones just enough to push out then maybe
If Firefight or warzone or invasion of some other big addition new or remade was brought then maybe.
Etc etc etc
Got to stop giving this company a pass.
This is apparently a 10 year game… That we are waiting 3 months after launch for road map.
Ok, lets go over the cost of making a triple-A game.
First you gotta have your development requirements.
Pay your employees in EVERY department, which includes benefits as well so you gotta pay the insurance companies.
Pay for the hardware and PCs that each employee will use
Pay for the software that you have to use to develop all the content you will fill the game with. That includes modeling software, dev kits, third party software that will work with your game engine, and licencing for a game engine if you don’t already own one.
Slipspace Engine had to be built so it was added to the budget as well.
Pay for the building that your employees will utilize as a space to work within.
Pay for the facilities and maintenance workers that keep the building fully operational.
Pay for the building’s bills and insurance coverage.
Pay the security team that you contracted to watch over your assets.
Pay for the rental or ownership of a sound studio to record all the audio you will use for voice acting, music, vfx, and ambience.
Pay for the structures that the servers are going to be housed in across the globe.
Pay for the hardware those servers are made up of.
Pay for the employees in IT who are going to work on these servers to keep them optimized.
Pay third party companies to assist with anything listed above in development and service costs.
Now that is only scratching the surface.
And I didn’t even include the cost of marketing in that list, which more often than not is DOUBLE the cost of everything total that is listed above.
Throwing money at something isn’t going to do jack squat but make the marketing team develop good looking commercials based on the content that is drafted during development.
And Microsoft has do pay for all of that with every company under their umbrella.
Coalition
Bethesda
ID Software
Just to name a few of their other triple-A development houses.
Sorry if this sounded a bit rude.
I just hate the fact that everyone makes it sound so simple to fix something by just throwing money at something. Because money is part of the problem.
Everyone wants their games to look as hyper-realistic as possible these days WHILE also being fun to play.
As a result, a LOT of the budget actually goes into art and modeling and NOT into optimizing. Ever wonder why CoD Modern Warfare and Black Ops Cold War demands to have all 500 Gigabytes of your internal drive? Because they said “screw file optimization, just make it look pretty so we can get paid and make our boast about our budget because people think big numbers means it is going to be good!”.
EDIT -
Also to add, you better make sure that your employees don’t feel too overworked in the crunch environment that persists in modern game design or too underpaid for their hard work. OTHERWISE you have a bunch of people leaving a project part-done, you have to find a replacement, and the replacement has to spend time reading the notes and work that a coder left behind in order to make sure that they know exactly how to resume the project without causing glitches or errors.