H5 as a "Hybrid" of H3 and H4 Agreement Poll

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

So I have been reading the forums lately, big surprise there, but what I seem to have noticed since the days of pre Halo 4, the community is generally split. While back in 2012 it was Competitive vs. Casual(All who were there will remember how annoying it was and how all the arguing in the world didn’t solve squat) it is now in 2014 a forum battle consisting of two sides: A more simplistic and less random Halo 3 style of gameplay or a more evolutionary but, to say it as unbiased as possible, more buggy gameplay (That is, evolution with tweaks might work) style of Halo 4.

It has long since been my goal to promotion constructive criticism and compromise. If we are being honest with ourselves, each “side” knows that no one is going to get anything they want unless we get along. When 343 has two side hating both games, they are bound to do something completely different. Or do what they think is cool. So the only way people will get both what they want and what they can live with (Meaning, it does not directly hamper your GENERAL likeness to the game. It may be annoying but you can find a way to work around said problem) is hybrid both the simple and complex styles of play.

Either vote yes for if you agree that the community should start tackling issue with goals of not just making themselves happy but making others happy as well (especially those who initially disagreed almost completely with your idea) or thank this post in agreement as well.

If you say nay, and are under the belief that favoring one side is the way to go, then please state why.

To the other members of the community, the Halo universe does not revolve around you as a player. So please do not assume that the way you want it is the way everyone else does as well.

-Thanks, Hoosier.

2

There’s one big issue with your reasoning, OP, and its the misconception that the split in the community is a recent thing.

I’ve been around the Halo-centered assemblage of peoples (community is a leading term btw) for a long time and pretty much from the get-go there’s been at least two distinct entities fighting for control of the franchise. Casuals or competitives you could call them, if you’d like to resort to the labels that feed so well into the stupid aspects of human group sociology, and where (if at any real point) this got its start is the split between gameplay for gameplay’s sake (ie. the campaign for which the game was first sold) and gameplay to fulfill some sort of social function (ie. multiplayer for which the game first got its notoriety). Of course because human groups are so rarely distinct the ideological principle on which this split is based has permeated throughout a lot of Halo (ex. AR vs. BR in Halo 3) but the key point is that Halo never shipped with a definite identity.

For instance, it could be a well presented campaign or a relatively organic competitive multiplayer mode. Its up to you and if you’d like you can pick out some other combination of factors to define Halo by besides those two I just listed. While this generalized nature has greatly helped Halo sell (it can be all things to a lot of people) what it has also provided in almost every aspect of the game some other viewpoint to argue with. For every indication that Halo is a serious FPS there’s a collection of other gameplay ideas to interfere with that interpretation. DMR’s on the one hand and radioactive death cannons on the other. Plots based around genocide while grunts are playing for laughs.

So in making ANY argument that Halo should improve itself there can most certainly be a counterargument stemming from the far side of Halo’s diffuse offerings. You (generally) may be sincere in your conviction to make Halo better according to whatever criteria you think is most reasonable but that flies in the face of what other people may believe based on criteria just as valid as yours (because the game certainly gives ample justification for either view, being a generalist.) There you have the basis for the most contentious arguments in this community’s history, equal groups fighting over a moral high ground which belongs ultimately to no one because Halo was born innocent of such squabbles because quite frankly Bungie, back in the day, didn’t have the where-with-all to take a stand on anything (and any attempt subsequently to mold Halo in some direction is simply the imposition of one group’s viewpoint (through developer sympathy) onto a structure to whom such a bias is alien.)

Halo CE was an amorphous mass of hope and desperation congealed into something playable by the chaotic magic of its 2000-2001 development. What it brought to the world is based in that indeterminacy which we’ve taken, being idiots, as something to resolve in one way or another. The worst thing we can do is set the game’s future development in any sort of relation to our orientations or preconceptions. Be it casual, competitive, or hybrid, we just need to stop trying to impose any sort of form to that which is distinctly (and best handled as) formless.

In short, just ask 343 to throw -Yoink- at the fan and enjoy the spectacle. Something good will come of it (even if its not entirely to each of our respective likings but then again that’s what the situation has ALWAYS been with this franchise).

3

> Yes. Compromise is good.
>
> No. I alone know the best direction for Halo 5.

A simple yes/no poll suffices. You should never insert biases into a poll option.

> Should Halo 5 be a hybrid of Halo 3 and Halo 4?

Depends on the goal you want to achieve with Halo 5.

If the goal is profit, it’s not a question I feel confident answering. There’s evidence most people hate Infinity settings (we’ve all seen the charts). There’s also a lot of evidence suggesting the ‘classic crowd’ simply isn’t there (there’s never been a successful “revive ____ title” movement to start off with, among other things).

I don’t like the term Hybrid regardless. If you take one thing from Halo 4, and insert that one thing into Halo 3, that still doesn’t make Halo 3 anything like Halo 4. Hybrid would imply MANY items are taken and put into Halo 3, which not everyone is looking to do.

But let’s talk about catering to a sub-set of players instead of profit.

I can only speak for what I want, and that is for a Halo game reminiscent of the trilogy. Others would want a game with sprint, transformer robots, prone and leaning, and the ability to customize every aspect of your gun.

Good luck catering to all of those conflicting ideas. Even if you could, Sammy and I are just two people in a sea of billions. Game isn’t guaranteed to sell with just us two buying it.

I am genuinely curious though, how do you propose doing it? Shoving me into a classic playlist that has all those things removed? A map designed around prone, lean, and sprint isn’t going to play well with those mechanics absent. So do I buy the game, forge my maps, and mod my settings? *Seems appealing…*you might be better off telling me to just -Yoink- off and designing it solely with Sammy in mind, or vice-versa. It’s going to be difficult or impossible to compromise and please everyone.

Who knows, 343I might even do something completely different, and succeed or still fail.

And before the mods get pissed I’m not having a go at Sammy.

4

A Hybrid could work, if the features chosen from either game work and are well balanced.

IMO, what is important is that Halo returns to an Arena Shooter.

5

I want no compromise. Halo needs to be Halo again, and that means going back to how it used to be. Get rid of all this new Call of Duty rubbish and then Halo will be good again.

6

PRIMARY
Assault Rifle, or Battle Rifle

SECONDARY
Magnum, or SMG

GRENADE
Frag

EQUIPMENT
Regenerator, or Bubble Shield

Look at that loadout system!

7

A. Ignore the bias in the vote. It was a dumb choice and came across sarcastic.

B. Think of the vote as a request to 343 to make a hybrid game, or a game combining certain elements. I do understand that there are many people that favor one side heavily but please at least think through what feature you wouldn’t mind returning if a “hybrid” were to be the case.

C. The term hybrid is loose right now. There is no clear way to define a halfway point nor will there ever be. But I would ask that the community at least when posting your opinions on a certain topic to keep the complete opposite side in mind. Try to find at least one portion of their post that you wouldn’t mind seeing implemented in some shape or form and be positive.

D. I never expect to define the “hybrid” alone. It is a collective effort for us as a community to do so.

E. To classic gamplay fans, I really would love to see a better argument then just “Bring back Halo to being Halo.” I understand that Halo’s roots came from that gameplay but please explain why this gameplay will help Halo move forward. (Many do and I appreciate that)

F. To modern fans, do not assume that Halo needs to evolve to stay competetive in the market. Also do not assumer that the current population of Halo 4 reflects accurately the want of the players. (Again many of you do not assume these things and I appreciate that as well)

G. At the heart of what I am trying to say, please do not be strongheaded to one side. If you are a die hard classic gameplay do not block your self off from the idea that an element from modern gameplay might actually work in future Halo games. If you are a die hard modernist, do not block your self off from thinking that an element from the “classic” gameplay brought back might actually help.

8

> I want no compromise. Halo needs to be Halo again, and that means going back to how it used to be. Get rid of all this new Call of Duty rubbish and then Halo will be good again.

And I absolutely refuse to compromise on bringing halo back to an archaic dated formula completely out of touch with modern shooters.

9

> > I want no compromise. Halo needs to be Halo again, and that means going back to how it used to be. Get rid of all this new Call of Duty rubbish and then Halo will be good again.
>
> And I absolutely refuse to compromise on bringing halo back to an archaic dated formula completely out of touch with modern shooters.

I see nothing wrong with trying to go back to what was successful for this franchise. I’m sure a lot of people have told you this, the new things that have come into Halo over the past few years are not seen to be positive things from fans and the fact that Halo 4 had such a low population so soon after launch is an indication to that.

It’s a good thing to be different and to stretch away from the norm. Sure we can these options of stuff like sprint and loadouts but it shouldn’t be the core of the game.

10

> E. To classic gamplay fans, I really would love to see a better argument then just “Bring back Halo to being Halo.” I understand that Halo’s roots came from that gameplay but please explain why this gameplay will help Halo move forward. (Many do and I appreciate that)

What do you mean by “moving Halo forward”?

Competitive Merit
Look, you’ve heard the arguments, I’m not going to re-hash them. Simply put, many mechanics in Halo 4 are inherently uncompetitive. Not just from an execution point of view. The only option to maintain the competitive integrity of the game is to disable or remove these mechanics.

The remaining mechanics that we actually could tweak to make them more competitive will drastically alter how the game plays in the process. So while the game would still remain competitive, many players would abandon it for “not being Halo”.

Uniqueness
Every shooter since the mid 2000’s has been the same style. Prime example, guess what the tacked on multiplayer of Far-cry 3 has? Perks, Loadouts, Sprint, etc. Why did the developers do this? Because it’s the generic and expected format plaguing the market today. Far Cry 3’s multiplayer is also dead, take from that what you will. I could list more examples, such as Bioshock 2.

Halo has never been an arena shooter akin to Quake/Unreal. You aren’t zooming around the map shooting explosive projectiles and rocket jumping. Halo has always sat in-between genres, and surprisingly has done this well. I don’t believe transforming this identity is doing anything to make the game stand out more from its competitors.

Social Experience/Amount of Content
Add whatever people ask for, just know the game will be completely unplayable on a competitive level and will have no focus in regards to design. There’s nothing to discuss here, pretty much any idea will accomplish this purpose.

11

> > I want no compromise. Halo needs to be Halo again, and that means going back to how it used to be. Get rid of all this new Call of Duty rubbish and then Halo will be good again.
>
> And I absolutely refuse to compromise on bringing halo back to an archaic dated formula completely out of touch with modern shooters.

Sammy, I asked you questions in another thread. Seems you don’t want to answer them.
I get the feeling it’s because the answers are actual proof against what you’re preaching, and you refuse to believe that you’re wrong… so you ignore the questions.

Your Service Record says that you’ve never played a game of Halo 3 on this account of yours.
Guess what: I’ve played all Halos. I’m pretty sure my opinion holds more weight than yours when it comes to which style is the better style, and more importantly, which style is Halo.

There is nothing wrong with you enjoying modern FPSs. Go play those. Stop trying to ruin a game the fans have loved for not being like those modern shooters.

12

> > > I want no compromise. Halo needs to be Halo again, and that means going back to how it used to be. Get rid of all this new Call of Duty rubbish and then Halo will be good again.
> >
> > And I absolutely refuse to compromise on bringing halo back to an archaic dated formula completely out of touch with modern shooters.
>
> Sammy, I asked you questions in another thread. Seems you don’t want to answer them.
> I get the feeling it’s because the answers are actual proof against what you’re preaching, and you refuse to believe that you’re wrong… so you ignore the questions.
>
> Your Service Record says that you’ve never played a game of Halo 3 on this account of yours.
> Guess what: I’ve played all Halos. I’m pretty sure my opinion holds more weight than yours when it comes to which style is the better style, and more importantly, which style is Halo.
>
> There is nothing wrong with you enjoying modern FPSs. Go play those. Stop trying to ruin a game the fans have loved for not being like those modern shooters.

I would refer to E and F please. And Ramir, you fall into the “manny do” category in E so I am perfectly okay with what you are saying.

13

IMO.

343 do need to return to the H3 gameplay, and add the features from REACH and H4 that have improved the game. And drop anything that has not improved the game.

Some features will need to evolve and may require great change.

I don’t want a H3 remake, but I want the gameplay of H3. The RANK and Social Aspect that H2/H3 provided. A game that pleased everyone, but never tried to copy from other games.

Also need more maps like those from Halo 2. These have been the best maps by far IMO.

14

We NEED a Halo 2/3 hybrid with multiple maps that support vehicular combat. At its core, it can stay an Arena Shooter but innovate like Halo 3. That’s why Halo 3 was the pinnacle of the franchise. Vehicular combat, machinima, environmentally-differentiating maps, etc.

15

I just want a Halo game that comes with all the great things from every Halo game. Not just Halo 2.5 or Halo 3.5.

  • Clans from Halo 2
  • Skill system and ranking system from Halo 3
  • Active Roster and Credit system from Halo: Reach
  • Custom Loadouts from Halo 4.

AND EVERY SINGLE GAME MODE EVER MADE FOR HALO!

Halo 5 shouldn’t be a Hybrid between just 2 games. It should be a Hybrid between all the Halo games with new elements thrown in.

16

> I just want a Halo game that comes with all the great things from every Halo game. Not just Halo 2.5 or Halo 3.5.
>
> - Clans from Halo 2
> - Skill system and ranking system from Halo 3
> - Active Roster and Credit system from Halo: Reach
> - Custom Loadouts from Halo 4.
>
> AND EVERY SINGLE GAME MODE EVER MADE FOR HALO!
>
> Halo 5 shouldn’t be a Hybrid between just 2 games. It should be a Hybrid between all the Halo games with new elements thrown in.

Sigh…

17

> It has long since been my goal to promotion constructive criticism and compromise.

A compromise on custom loadouts still means that custom loadouts exist, which isn’t what classic players want, but is what Infinity players want. A compromise on AAs means that AAs will still exist, which isn’t what classic players want, but is what Infinity players want. A “hybrid” Halo is still a one-sided Halo.

The truth is that Halo 4 is a hybrid Halo. It crossed elements from twitch shooters with elements from arena shooters, creating a shooter that neither twitch nor arena shooter fans liked. Halo 4 failed because it was a hybrid. Halo Xbox One needs to be either one or the other.

Contrary to what seems to be the pervading ideology, it is possible for Halo to grow, evolve, and be modern without randomness and classes.

18

I voted yes even though the options were sorta weird. The Halo I want to see:

  1. AA map pick up only
  2. Loadouts gun choice only
  3. No Pods (most important change for me personally)
  4. Harsher quit penalties to keep lopsided matches down
  5. Sprint = Yes (at least in BTB)
  6. Halo 4 pacing / movements / hit boxes… basic core

(Better graphics, dedicated servers and frame rate that comes with xb1 of course)

I like Halo 3 and Halo 4; so a mix would be good with me.

I think I LIKED Halo 3 better (in its day), but LIKE Halo 4 better. A lot might have to do with Halo 3 being painfully outdated of course. There are still many things I like better about Halo 3… but it’s just slow, clunky and outdated in 2014.

Bottom line, we have 1.5 years to worry about what’s in Halo 5 most likely (:

19

^^^^
Custom loadouts? Why? WHY?!

That’s not what Halo is.

There are many ways to improve upon a game that aren’t related to creating endless amounts of selectable options/customizations.

Add in more skill-based mechanics that affect everybody at all times.
Add in features that are simply fun and have them affect everybody at all times.
Is this so difficult to understand? A new feature doesn’t have to be some form of customization.

For Halo 2, for example, Bungie added duel-wielding, and vehicle jacking.
This wasn’t given to only those who chose these abilities via some form of customization, it was given to everybody. That’s why it worked.

Not saying that I want these features in Halo 5, but just throwing them out there for reference:
Maybe instead of assassinating somebody, you also have the choice to grab them and use them as a shield for 3 seconds to allow you to escape enemy fire, and as a trade-off, the opponent lives.
How about the ability to swap weapons with your teammates, or even lob weapons to your teammates (restrict weapon tossing off maps, and make it only possible to do if your reticle is over a teammate)?

Maybe these things will work, maybe they won’t, but at least everybody would be capable of doing them during a match.

20

> ^^^^
> Custom loadouts? Why? WHY?!
>
> That’s not what Halo is.
>
> There are many ways to improve upon a game that aren’t related to creating endless amounts of selectable options/customizations.

I think a very limited basic loadout choice would still work and keep Halo an Arena Shooter. H4 Loadout choices is a complete Fail. PERKS and POD do not belong in Halo. And AA should be map pickups and work much more like H3 Equipment.

> Add in more skill-based mechanics that affect everybody at all times.
> Add in features that are simply fun and have them affect everybody at all times.
> Is this so difficult to understand? A new feature doesn’t have to be some form of customization.
>
> For Halo 2, for example, Bungie added duel-wielding, and vehicle jacking.
> This wasn’t given to only those who chose these abilities via some form of customization, it was given to everybody. That’s why it worked.

Totally agree with this.

> Not saying that I want these features in Halo 5, but just throwing them out there for reference:
> Maybe instead of assassinating somebody, you also have the choice to grab them and use them as a shield for 3 seconds to allow you to escape enemy fire, and as a trade-off, the opponent lives.
> How about the ability to swap weapons with your teammates, or even lob weapons to your teammates (restrict weapon tossing off maps, and make it only possible to do if your reticle is over a teammate)?
>
> Maybe these things will work, maybe they won’t, but at least everybody would be capable of doing them during a match.

What you have suggested are like many of the features of GEARS and I think these could work great in Halo. I much prefer Halo copied GEARS than COD for ideas and inspiration.

The only real new addition REACH bought to Halo was Assassinations, and these have been a great success. Halo 4 additions (PERKS and PODS) have been a massive failure and hurt gameplay.

343 really need to add a new feature that is available to all players as you have said, that requires skill to pull off. And if successful, it lots of fun and rewarding.

Halo has so much potential, but the right path must be taken for it to succeed.