Gun balance isnt necessarily a good thing.

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

Halo 5’s weapon sandbox has been generally labled “balanced” by community. But, the weapon sandbox is recieveing more negative complaints than, say, halo 3’s weapon sandbox, which was unbalanced.

The reason I believe this is so, is because that halo used to be about how much skill you had with a certain weapon, like the Battle Rifle. Yes, it does overpower any other pick up weapon that isnt a power weapon, which is unbalanced. But, all players spawned with one. Furthermore. A Battle Rifle dosent overpower another Battle Rifle, unless a player’s skill with that weapon allows him / her so. This created an addicting and competitive , even playing field. Also, this concept made it, so your ability in using the weapon far exceeds someone else who collects weapons on the map to make kills easier, excluding power weapons.

An example of this, is someone who has a persistent shot with with br, pwning someone over and over again that scavenges the map for smg’s, spikers, Assualt rifle ammo, etc.

This concept valued raw skill in aim, movement and knowledge, over stocking equipment. As a result, there is an abundance of skilled encounters, since who ever had the better aim with the battle rifle, better movement, and general knowledge (including grenade placement, anticipating the enemy ), wins the fight. Thats a skilled encounter, which is what makes halo addicting and also competitive, sense everyone had equal opportunity to get better.

In halo 5, on the other hand, the weapon sandbox is balanced. And, ironically, it recieves negative feedback often from players, compared to, say, halo 3. Heres why.

Now, every useless weapon, is now quite powerful, specifically the close range weapons. The problem, is that they require less skill to use, and require little to no practise to use at all, comapred to , say, the pistol, and these types of weapons rival the higher skilled weapons, such as the pistol and the battle rifle.

This eliminates the concept of skill over equipment. Its essentially reversed. Collecting equipment around the map, now makes you more successful than someone who dosent, which creates alot less skilled encounters.

Now, its mainly about who has the better weapon, rather than who has the better skill with “this” weapon. This causes a reduction in skilled ecounters, which is one of the main things players love about halo, which is being less significant. Thats why players complain about halo 5’s gun balance.

If you give player A, the higher skilled player, a Assualt rifle, vs player B, a lesser skilled player, an Smg, player B will generally win most of his engagements, even though hes worse, because equipment compensates for skill. The player isnt impoving.

Now, give both players any precision weapon, such as the Battle rifle, Dmr, pistol, etc. Player A wins most of his engagements. Because this was a skilled encounter. In terms of player B with his smg, that scenario was whoever has a better weapon, wins. This concepts upsets many players.

Now, give player A a Pistol, and Player B a pistol, and Storm Rifle. Player A wins, but had a much harder time killing player B, even though he has more skill than him.

So, my solution would be to keep this concept in here, because a great amout of players like it also. But, if 343 were so kind to implement a playlist that removed automatic weapons, this would please many players that prefer succes with, skill with precision weapons, over success of collecting equipment around the map. Its literally the easiet playlist to create in the world, i cant see difficulty achieving this.

Please, dont say " players like you just cant accept change. ". Yes, we can. Halo 1 and 2 had a rather very diffierent weapon sandbox, yet more people bought and played halo 2 excessively, despire this change of how weapons handled. Its not rocket science to not accept what isnt a good change to others.

And also, dont say " well the precision weapons are all thats viable in diamond and above, and automatics are mainly used to clean up kills, etc. " The majority of arena players are below diamond. The minority of players are above diamond. Thats basicially implying that skilled encounters are abundant at high level play. Duh. And that in the average skilled teirs or lower, where most of the arena playerbase always ( platinum and below ), are abundant in equipment compensation for skill, and is how most players are playing. According to halo5arena.com, The assualt rifle and smgs makes up for most kills below diamond. Most players are in platinum or lower. This clearly shows a reduction in general of skilled encounters, favoring equipment usage.

And dont say " you need to get better at the game to understand it, etc. ". Im an onyx player with a 1.3 k / d against others in that tier, with over 500 games played. If you still think based off my logic im a under- average player, then onyx rank must not hold value at all, and CSR needs a fix if a under average player can play competitivelty in the highest tier.

Thanks for reading, hope you understand my point made.

2

I actually wouldn’t mind a slight nerf to all weapons that aren’t precision. Not a lot but an every so slight one so that if someone gets the drop on you with an automatic you aren’t gaurenteed death (unless the person sucks).

3

Balance can mean many things which is where confusion comes in. Although I agree with the OP, I wouldn’t call the classic Halos unbalanced (except for default Halo 2 SMG starts, that was horrid).

If your aim is to balance the weapons in such a way that one weapon is clearly the utility weapon, then that’s one kind of balance. If your aim is to balance the weapons so that they are all blandly filling the same role (hint: Halo 5), then that’s another kind of balance.

Halo has always done the former until now.

4

Gun balance is always a good thing, but Halo 5’s sandbox is both redundant and unbalanced. The problem is that people don’t actually know what balance is, but they label Halo 5 as such because every gun is powerful, I guess.

5

> 2533274819567236;4:
> Gun balance is always a good thing, but Halo 5’s sandbox is both redundant and unbalanced. The problem is that people don’t actually know what balance is, but they label Halo 5 as such because every gun is powerful, I guess.

I agree. Balance in the trilogy worked as such:

  • Utility weapon

    • useful in all situations
    • easy to pick up and use; hard to master

  • All other weapons

    • fill a very specific role inside or out of combat
6

All BR and no gun balance makes Halo a dull game.
All BR and no gun balance makes Halo a dull game.
All BR and no gun balance makes Halo a dull game.
All BR and no gun balance makes Halo a dull game.
All BR and no gun balance makes Halo a dull game.
All BR and no gun balance makes Halo a dull game.
All BR and no gun balance makes Halo a dull game.
All BR and no gun balance makes Halo a dull game.
All BR and no gun balance makes Halo a dull game.
All BR and no gun balance makes Halo a dull game.
All BR and no gun balance makes Halo a dull game.
All BR and no gun balance makes Halo a dull game.
All BR and no gun balance makes Halo a dull game.
All BR and no gun balance makes Halo a dull game.
All BR and no gun balance makes Halo a dull game.
All BR and no gun balance makes Halo a dull game.

Here’s Johnny 117

7

If your an onyx player what difference does anything make, if you played me, you’d kill me 9.99 times out of ten whatever weapon i had.

8

> 2533274860062662;7:
> If your an onyx player what difference does anything make, if you played me, you’d kill me 9.99 times out of ten whatever weapon i had.

It’s worth noting that when we’re talking about balance, we’re almost always speaking in the context of equally skilled opponents.

9

> 2533274834537210;5:
> > 2533274819567236;4:
> > Gun balance is always a good thing, but Halo 5’s sandbox is both redundant and unbalanced. The problem is that people don’t actually know what balance is, but they label Halo 5 as such because every gun is powerful, I guess.
>
>
> I agree. Balance in the trilogy worked as such:
> - Utility weapon
> - - useful in all situations
> - - easy to pick up and use; hard to master
>
> - All other weapons
> - - fill a very specific role inside or out of combat

Exactly this.

10

> 2533274907512096;1:
> Halo 5’s weapon sandbox has been generally labled “balanced” by community. But, the weapon sandbox is recieveing more negative complaints than, say, halo 3’s weapon sandbox, which was unbalanced.
>
> The reason I believe this is so, is because that halo used to be about how much skill you had with a certain weapon, like the Battle Rifle. Yes, it does overpower any other pick up weapon that isnt a power weapon, which is unbalanced. But, all players spawned with one. Furthermore. A Battle Rifle dosent overpower another Battle Rifle, unless a player’s skill with that weapon allows him / her so. This created an addicting and competitive , even playing field. Also, this concept made it, so your ability in using the weapon far exceeds someone else who collects weapons on the map to make kills easier, excluding power weapons.
>
> An example of this, is someone who has a persistent shot with with br, pwning someone over and over again that scavenges the map for smg’s, spikers, Assualt rifle ammo, etc.
>
> This concept valued raw skill in aim, movement and knowledge, over stocking equipment. As a result, there is an abundance of skilled encounters, since who ever had the better aim with the battle rifle, better movement, and general knowledge (including grenade placement, anticipating the enemy ), wins the fight. Thats a skilled encounter, which is what makes halo addicting and also competitive, sense everyone had equal opportunity to get better.
>
> In halo 5, on the other hand, the weapon sandbox is balanced. And, ironically, it recieves negative feedback often from players, compared to, say, halo 3. Heres why.
>
> Now, every useless weapon, is now quite powerful, specifically the close range weapons. The problem, is that they require less skill to use, and require little to no practise to use at all, comapred to , say, the pistol, and these types of weapons rival the higher skilled weapons, such as the pistol and the battle rifle.
>
> This eliminates the concept of skill over equipment. Its essentially reversed. Collecting equipment around the map, now makes you more successful than someone who dosent, which creates alot less skilled encounters.
>
> Now, its mainly about who has the better weapon, rather than who has the better skill with “this” weapon. This causes a reduction in skilled ecounters, which is one of the main things players love about halo, which is being less significant. Thats why players complain about halo 5’s gun balance.
>
> If you give player A, the higher skilled player, a Assualt rifle, vs player B, a lesser skilled player, an Smg, player B will generally win most of his engagements, even though hes worse, because equipment compensates for skill. The player isnt impoving.
>
> Now, give both players any precision weapon, such as the Battle rifle, Dmr, pistol, etc. Player A wins most of his engagements. Because this was a skilled encounter. In terms of player B with his smg, that scenario was whoever has a better weapon, wins. This concepts upsets many players.
>
> Now, give player A a Pistol, and Player B a pistol, and Storm Rifle. Player A wins, but had a much harder time killing player B, even though he has more skill than him.
>
> So, my solution would be to keep this concept in here, because a great amout of players like it also. But, if 343 were so kind to implement a playlist that removed automatic weapons, this would please many players that prefer succes with, skill with precision weapons, over success of collecting equipment around the map. Its literally the easiet playlist to create in the world, i cant see difficulty achieving this.
>
> Please, dont say " players like you just cant accept change. ". Yes, we can. Halo 1 and 2 had a rather very diffierent weapon sandbox, yet more people bought and played halo 2 excessively, despire this change of how weapons handled. Its not rocket science to not accept what isnt a good change to others.
>
> And also, dont say " well the precision weapons are all thats viable in diamond and above, and automatics are mainly used to clean up kills, etc. " The majority of arena players are below diamond. The minority of players are above diamond. Thats basicially implying that skilled encounters are abundant at high level play. Duh. And that in the average skilled teirs or lower, where most of the arena playerbase always ( platinum and below ), are abundant in equipment compensation for skill, and is how most players are playing. According to halo5arena.com, The assualt rifle and smgs makes up for most kills below diamond. Most players are in platinum or lower. This clearly shows a reduction in general of skilled encounters, favoring equipment usage.
>
> And dont say " you need to get better at the game to understand it, etc. ". Im an onyx player with a 1.3 k / d against others in that tier, with over 500 games played. If you still think based off my logic im a under- average player, then onyx rank must not hold value at all, and CSR needs a fix if a under average player can play competitivelty in the highest tier.
>
> Thanks for reading, hope you understand my point made.

This is exactly why Halo feels so different today… Oh and spartan abilities.

11

Many people hated Halo 5 compared to Halo 3’s gun balance because they couldn’t rely on the BR anymore and they start sucking with the Pistol. That’s why early on people were pushing for BR starts in Arena.

Everyone spawned with the Battle Rifle because all you needed was the Battle Rifle unless you were going for a shotgun, sniper, or Rocket. Most duel wielded weapons were terrible, which is why they had to be duel wielded. In fact it was so good Bungie implemented the random shots that went with it, so beyond short-mid distance, BR wasn’t based on skill, it was based on luck, especially when latency + projectile scan came into play

For your two examples, the Assault Rifle is spawned while the SMG is a pick up weapon with limited ammo. If my Assault Rifle is exactly as good as the SMG, why would I waste my time fighting for the SMG? I’m doing just as well keeping the weapon I spawned with

A Pistol shouldn’t beat a Storm Rifle as close range. Player B has a plasma weapon that immediately shreds shields, which could follow up with a melee faster than the Pistol can put out 4 shots.

I wouldn’t trade my BR for about 1/3 of the weapons on the map in Halo 3, because I’d do much better just keeping the BR and engaging from a safe distance.

An Assault Rifle vs a Pistol would be a better argument here.

12

> 2533274839169051;6:
> All BR and no gun balance makes Halo a dull game.
> All BR and no gun balance makes Halo a dull game.
> All BR and no gun balance makes Halo a dull game.
> All BR and no gun balance makes Halo a dull game.
> All BR and no gun balance makes Halo a dull game.
> All BR and no gun balance makes Halo a dull game.
> All BR and no gun balance makes Halo a dull game.
> All BR and no gun balance makes Halo a dull game.
> All BR and no gun balance makes Halo a dull game.
> All BR and no gun balance makes Halo a dull game.
> All BR and no gun balance makes Halo a dull game.
> All BR and no gun balance makes Halo a dull game.
> All BR and no gun balance makes Halo a dull game.
> All BR and no gun balance makes Halo a dull game.
> All BR and no gun balance makes Halo a dull game.
> All BR and no gun balance makes Halo a dull game.
>
> Here’s Johnny 117

Even if that was the case, the millions who played and enjoyed the trilogy would have to disagree.

13

> 2533274833081329;11:
> Many people hated Halo 5 compared to Halo 3’s gun balance because they couldn’t rely on the BR anymore and they start sucking with the Pistol. That’s why early on people were pushing for BR starts in Arena.
>
> Everyone spawned with the Battle Rifle because all you needed was the Battle Rifle unless you were going for a shotgun, sniper, or Rocket. Most duel wielded weapons were terrible, which is why they had to be duel wielded. In fact it was so good Bungie implemented the random shots that went with it, so beyond short-mid distance, BR wasn’t based on skill, it was based on luck, especially when latency + projectile scan came into play
>
> For your two examples, the Assault Rifle is spawned while the SMG is a pick up weapon with limited ammo. If my Assault Rifle is exactly as good as the SMG, why would I waste my time fighting for the SMG? I’m doing just as well keeping the weapon I spawned with
>
> A Pistol shouldn’t beat a Storm Rifle as close range. Player B has a plasma weapon that immediately shreds shields, which could follow up with a melee faster than the Pistol can put out 4 shots.
>
> I wouldn’t trade my BR for about 1/3 of the weapons on the map in Halo 3, because I’d do much better just keeping the BR and engaging from a safe distance.
>
> An Assault Rifle vs a Pistol would be a better argument here.

First off, in terms of balance, Halo 3 has it worse than 2 and CE.

Setting that aside, I would rather play a “one gun game” if the weapon in question was a skillful one, which Halo 3’s Battle Rifle is, as opposed to a game balanced like Halo 5 is.

14

> 2533274839169051;6:
> All BR and no gun balance makes Halo a dull game.
>
> Here’s Johnny 117

So true…the games over-run with BR spam, certainly proofs that if people are mostly using only BR then it’s clearly not balanced…I remember when Halo was about adapting to different weapons on the battle-field but these days it’s just mostly about who see’s who first battles. It’s bad enough putting up with the ‘cheap’ kills like spartan charge/pound since they can be impossible to block at close range and the radar is practically useless.

15

I been saying this for a long time and I’m glad to see I’m not alone. This game is all about who has the better gun and it’s such a shame.

16

I disagree with OP. Halo 5 has an element the old BR fests didn’t have. You now have to be aware of where you are on the map to take advantage of the strengths of the weapon you are holding. Good luck with that SMG in the outside area on Eden. I’ll headshot you with a Magnum before you get in SMG range. Go across the map in the closed in area and the SMG will eat my face off. The correct weapon + the correct map location = advantage. Why does everyone want to be forced to use one weapon all the time? The BR is the only viable weapon on the old games. Halo was a one trick pony. Now you can choose a weapon that matches your mood/strengths/play style.

17

> 2535468812026872;16:
> I disagree with OP. Halo 5 has an element the old BR fests didn’t have. You now have to be aware of where you are on the map to take advantage of the strengths of the weapon you are holding. Good luck with that SMG in the outside area on Eden. I’ll headshot you with a Magnum before you get in SMG range. Go across the map in the closed in area and the SMG will eat my face off. The correct weapon + the correct map location = advantage. Why does everyone want to be forced to use one weapon all the time? The BR is the only viable weapon on the old games. Halo was a one trick pony. Now you can choose a weapon that matches your mood/strengths/play style.

This is the most common argument that is in favor of Halo 5’s balance. I really don’t see how knowing when to use a weapon suited for a certain range is a skill. It’s more common sense.

It would be a different story if weapons were balanced correctly. Using a Plasma Rifle to strip the shields then swapping to your Magnum to score the headshot because the Plasma Rifle is balls against armor sounds way more skillful to me than: “Hey, that guy is close to me, better switch to my SMG.”

18

Hmmm balance is always a good thing for a competitive multiplayer lol. Let’s call a spade a spade previous halo have balanced weapons but a VERY unbalanced sandbox.

some could say halo 5 is somewhat the reverse. And I only use somewhat because the community can agree with the balance of certain weapons but the sandbox as a whole is balanced when compared to each weapon.

halo 3 slayer AR start is unplayable because of how unbalanced the sandbox is. Let’s take guardian as an example. Controlling the sniper and shotgun was a no brainer, but controlling the BR was almost a guarantee win with the right hands.

If the power weapons were out the only way you were killing an experience BR user is by a nade or closing in for a melee which 8 out of 10 resulted in trading of kills. Event at close to mid range against a decent BR ur the AR user is a disadvantage. In halo 5 if the BR user in scenario isn’t going for the perfect kill he gets dropped if more often than not.

Even in halo 5 the BR is my tool of destruction but now it’s it’s because I’m not a DMR user and I’m too trigger happy for the magnum lol and not because it’s the only gun worth using.

Everytime I get dropped short to mid by an auto I know the shots that caused my downfall.

I played a lot of halo 2 system link and split screen but not much of its online so won’t really speak on it tho.

19

> 2533274834537210;17:
> > 2535468812026872;16:
> > I disagree with OP. Halo 5 has an element the old BR fests didn’t have. You now have to be aware of where you are on the map to take advantage of the strengths of the weapon you are holding. Good luck with that SMG in the outside area on Eden. I’ll headshot you with a Magnum before you get in SMG range. Go across the map in the closed in area and the SMG will eat my face off. The correct weapon + the correct map location = advantage. Why does everyone want to be forced to use one weapon all the time? The BR is the only viable weapon on the old games. Halo was a one trick pony. Now you can choose a weapon that matches your mood/strengths/play style.
>
>
> This is the most common argument that is in favor of Halo 5’s balance. I really don’t see how knowing when to use a weapon suited for a certain range is a skill. It’s more common sense.
>
> It would be a different story if weapons were balanced correctly. Using a Plasma Rifle to strip the shields then swapping to your Magnum to score the headshot because the Plasma Rifle is balls against armor sounds way more skillful to me than: “Hey, that guy is close to me, better switch to my SMG.”

Isn’t that the function of the Brute Plasma Rifle?

Besides, doesn’t that mean using the BR in Halo 3 is common sense too? Because the BR functions everywhere except for long range.

20

> 2533274834537210;17:
> > 2535468812026872;16:
> > I disagree with OP. Halo 5 has an element the old BR fests didn’t have. You now have to be aware of where you are on the map to take advantage of the strengths of the weapon you are holding. Good luck with that SMG in the outside area on Eden. I’ll headshot you with a Magnum before you get in SMG range. Go across the map in the closed in area and the SMG will eat my face off. The correct weapon + the correct map location = advantage. Why does everyone want to be forced to use one weapon all the time? The BR is the only viable weapon on the old games. Halo was a one trick pony. Now you can choose a weapon that matches your mood/strengths/play style.
>
>
> This is the most common argument that is in favor of Halo 5’s balance. I really don’t see how knowing when to use a weapon suited for a certain range is a skill. It’s more common sense.
>
> It would be a different story if weapons were balanced correctly. Using a Plasma Rifle to strip the shields then swapping to your Magnum to score the headshot because the Plasma Rifle is balls against armor sounds way more skillful to me than: “Hey, that guy is close to me, better switch to my SMG.”

Now this I can agree to. Get someone weak switch to pistol to get the headshot instead of just abusing a weapon like a storm rifle to get a free instakill because ur weapon overpowers the rest.