Gripe I have with campaign squad

I’ve played several games where I work in a squad of important characters in games, and I don’t feel like Halo did a very good job at implementing the same idea, at least with Locke’s squad. To be clear, I am talking from the perspective of a player who has not accessed the novels that delve into Blue Team’s, Tanaka’s and Vale’s backstory; I am giving my thoughts based on how much value the characters provide when it comes to enjoying the game.

To start off, the squadmates in the campaign feel very bland with the exception of Buck. Even Master Chief and Locke felt bland as characters with their in-game dialogue. In comparison to other games where the player is in a team, like Left 4 Dead and Mass Effect, the characters in the Halo campaign do not say very unique things. When fighting enemies, walking around, or interacting with the player, they do not have lines that make me think “Oh, that’s a typical Tanaka line,” or “Ha, that’s something Kelly would say.” Rather, I don’t feel anything. In fact, a lot of players consider Tanaka to be a very forgettable due to her generic soldier lines. Even her speech, before dropping on Sunaion, was a cliché “we’ve come so far, let’s hope we survive this” speech.

Now, if we compare this with other games like Left 4 Dead and Mass Effect, many of the characters in those games have their distinct personalities and their distinct feeling when the player goes through the story. For example, Francis has his signature “I hate X” lines, like “I hate zombies,” “I hate helicopters,” “I hate elevators.” When players hear “I hate…” they immediately thing “Yup, that’s Francis.” In Mass Effect, when a player hears “I WILL DESTROY YOU,” they think of either the annoying AI encountered throughout the planets or the psychotic biotic Jack. These things gave the campaign some replayability because the characters added their unique charm to the game. Players grow to like these characters, and they want to play alongside those characters again (anecdotally, I still have a crush on Tali in ME). To make things even funnier, characters interacted with each other very frequently. Nick from L4D2 enjoys making fun of Ellis and Coach often while Rochelle often acts like a “big sister” to Ellis. Shepard and Tali flirted when they infiltrated a Geth ship in Mass Effect 3. Even Marines in Halo 2 interacted with each other by laughing at each others’ jokes.

We can even use previous Halo games as a comparison. In Halo: ODST, each ODST had a unique personality. The Rookie acted like the silent protagonist who would follow orders and know what to do without saying a single word. Buck filled the leader role who casually smack-talked but had the right attitude when needed. Mickey was the charming comic relief (like Olaf from Frozen), who would make optimistic comments about getting a tank, blowing up a building, and hijacking a Phantom. Romeo was the maverick who was always a pain in the -Yoink- for Buck, especially with his snarky complaints about stairs and fighting stuff. Dutch was the cynical dude who gave the feeling of “-Yoink- this -Yoink-, can we just get it over with?”

Little trivia: The voice actor for Mickey also voiced Olaf

With Halo 5, there was potential to give Locke’s squat at the very least, some charm. Considering Vale’s the one who usually has intel, I would’ve like to hear some subtly nerdy comments from her, especially if Locke is interacting with tech. With this attitude, it would be pretty funny to hear Vale get frustrated when Tanaka or Buck get confused by tech jargon or Shangheli terms that Vale uses. With Tanaka, we could have her be a tough on the outside, soft on the inside character, considering her tragic background. I did notice her reaction when looking into the distance on the mission Glassed, and I would suggest to 343: You should have taken it further. I think players would remember Tanaka much more if her sympathy towards people losing everything was more prevalent. Even Blue Team would benefit from very subtle emotions in their lines so that they don’t all seem like the same killing machines. Chief should still have his signature lines where he just says a word or two, giving him the badass impression. I think it’d be pretty funny to have Fred be very chill with his voice, like a Morgan Freeman-like voice. I just want some color to the characters.

Having said all this, do I like the idea of fighting with a squad? I actually love it. However, I want to be able to remember each person in my squad. I want to be able to hear a line and think “That totally sounds like Vale”

I’ll reply to your post because I feel bad that no one has yet! :slight_smile:

I’ll say that one of the few bright spots of the H5 campaign to me was Osiris, I actually did like them more than I expected. I kind of WANTED to hate them because of resentment over the 80/20 mission distribution, but they grew on me quickly. I feel like they have room to grow.

Blue Team, of course, was a tremendous disappointment. There are people who’d waited literally 15 years to see them in a Halo game and they had the personality of a stump. I’ve heard it said that was done on purpose to make the SII’s seem more stoic and reserved; but they have a ton of personality in the books, it simply does not make sense.

I didn’t mind the squad dynamic from a gameplay perspective (although it’s fairly useless on Legendary) but from a lore perspective, no I don’t want to see it again unless they do a better job giving both teams some more personality (Blue moreso than Osiris) next time.

> 2533274961806222;2:
> I’ll reply to your post because I feel bad that no one has yet! :slight_smile:
>
> I’ll say that one of the few bright spots of the H5 campaign to me was Osiris, I actually did like them more than I expected. I kind of WANTED to hate them because of resentment over the 80/20 mission distribution, but they grew on me quickly. I feel like they have room to grow.
>
> Blue Team, of course, was a tremendous disappointment. There are people who’d waited literally 15 years to see them in a Halo game and they had the personality of a stump. I’ve heard it said that was done on purpose to make the SII’s seem more stoic and reserved; but they have a ton of personality in the books, it simply does not make sense.
>
> I didn’t mind the squad dynamic from a gameplay perspective (although it’s fairly useless on Legendary) but from a lore perspective, no I don’t want to see it again unless they do a better job giving both teams some more personality (Blue moreso than Osiris) next time.

I mean, yeah. It’s really nice that we can play with some team members, and I actually want to like them. I genuinely want to get attached to these characters, and I hold Blue Team to a much lower standard due to the nature of Spartans. However, I think 343 should try to give subtle emotions and personalties to Blue Team, and I think they should have taken the personalities of Osiris much further.

Even the Marines in Halo 2 and 3 had much more personality than the members of Osiris. We have Chips Dubbo with his hilarious lines and his Australian accent.

Just an example of how funny Chips is: Locke vs THE CHIPS DUBBO - YouTube

Halo 5 lacks any form of character development. Having not read any of the books, I had no idea that there were any Spartan II’s left other than the Master Chief. Then Blue Team shows up like it’s no big deal and I’m expected to act like this is a completely normal thing, and even worse, they expect me to know who they are, their relationship with Chief, and their personality traits. I couldn’t care less if any of these new people died, and there are Halo fans out there who would lynch me for saying that, but it’s not my fault Halo 5’s story sucks. Please don’t assume all of your fans read the books 343. If people have to leave the game to understand what is going on then you have failed as a storyteller. Just look at what happened with Destiny.

Not to be a -Yoink- but I’m pretty sure people grow to like the characters in Mass Effect from all the conversations you have out of combat. I didn’t decide Garrus was the best after hearing him say “one less to worry about” and “right on your -Yoink-” a million times, I decided it during the countless conversations we had aboard the Normandy as well as the tidbits talking to the people around the galaxy, even more so after the “reach and flexibility” one.

Also, you gotta remember that Left 4 Dead you play as survivors of a zombie plague, Mass Effect as a soldier (of varying morality) with a team mostly compiled of ragtag specialists, and Halo 5 as two spartans who have every reason to take their jobs as seriously as possible. Pretty sure I remember Locke telling Buck to cut the chatter.

As for Vale, she’s new to Halo, so nobody really knows much about her, besides what she says ingame. Stuck aboard a ship for a while so learnt Sangheili language and probably has daddy issues. Knows about Buck and Dare, probably even knew them both well before Osiris.

I see what you are saying, sort of.

Quite liked this moment
Kelly “This place is incredible”
Fred “Gives me the creeps”
Linda “Bioreadings are unlike anything we’ve previously recorded. there’s a formalness and precision to it all. It seems artificial, but still organic”
Kelly “Halsey would have already started taking samples”
Fred “She’d have probably figured out the exact coordinates of this planet by now”

They did a better backstory with Blue team than anything.

> 2533274968393436;6:
> They did a better backstory with Blue team than anything.

Indeed. I remember, when observing the environment on the level “Reunion,” Kelly asks Chief what it’s like to work with an AI as closely as he did with Cortana, what it’s like to have that voice in your head. He says, “It’s… unique.”

Kelly replies, “Care to elaborate?”

Chief says, “No.”

> 2533274991067213;7:
> > 2533274968393436;6:
> > They did a better backstory with Blue team than anything.
>
>
> Indeed. I remember, when observing the environment on the level “Reunion,” Kelly asks Chief what it’s like to work with an AI as closely as he did with Cortana, what it’s like to have that voice in your head. He says, “It’s… unique.”
>
> Kelly replies, “Care to elaborate?”
>
> Chief says, “No.”

And then the team that had almost no backstory have a backstory to the blue team.

> 2533274911198538;5:
> Not to be a -Yoink- but I’m pretty sure people grow to like the characters in Mass Effect from all the conversations you have out of combat. I didn’t decide Garrus was the best after hearing him say “one less to worry about” and “right on your -Yoink-” a million times, I decided it during the countless conversations we had aboard the Normandy as well as the tidbits talking to the people around the galaxy, even more so after the “reach and flexibility” one.
>
> Also, you gotta remember that Left 4 Dead you play as survivors of a zombie plague, Mass Effect as a soldier (of varying morality) with a team mostly compiled of ragtag specialists, and Halo 5 as two spartans who have every reason to take their jobs as seriously as possible. Pretty sure I remember Locke telling Buck to cut the chatter.
>
> As for Vale, she’s new to Halo, so nobody really knows much about her, besides what she says ingame. Stuck aboard a ship for a while so learnt Sangheili language and probably has daddy issues. Knows about Buck and Dare, probably even knew them both well before Osiris.
>
> I see what you are saying, sort of.
>
>
>
> Quite liked this moment
> Kelly “This place is incredible”
> Fred “Gives me the creeps”
> Linda “Bioreadings are unlike anything we’ve previously recorded. there’s a formalness and precision to it all. It seems artificial, but still organic”
> Kelly “Halsey would have already started taking samples”
> Fred “She’d have probably figured out the exact coordinates of this planet by now”
>

I see what you’re saying, and I do agree that most memorable lines aren’t mid-combat, but there are plenty of opportunities to provide dialogue from characters in between fights and during cutscenes. In fact, Grunts have been iconic in the Halo series due to their ridiculously funny lines in combat like “BACK… TO THE NIPPLE” and “You killed Flipyay! Or Yapflip was he…? It was Yapfli… no Flipyap was his brother! Don’t tell me I don’t know Flipyap! Flipyap and I used to go to Nipple Academy together, and now he’s dead!” Marines even have their funny lines out of combat, especially when the player stares at them. Anecdotally, I cherish the moments where I stare at the Marine voiced by Alan Tudyk (also Mickey in ODST) and Chips Dubbo.

And I’d like to refute the argument that the different environment of Halo and the nature of Spartans don’t allow for amusing or distinct dialogue to show personality. In fact, I can easily take some characters from Halo and note how similar their personalities are to characters in other games with radically different environments.

Take Mickey from ODST, or the Marine voiced by Alan Tudyk in Halo 3: ODST and Halo 3 respectively. Players can remember Mickey or the Marine with the same voice actor from the overly optimistic, cheerful lines he provides in the game, like “Tank beats Ghost. Tank beats Hunter! Tank beats everything!! Oh, I could do this all day!!!” Now, we can actually make a comparison with him and Ellis from Left 4 Dead 2. Even though Mickey is in a futuristic war against technologically advanced aliens and Ellis is trying to kill all zombie sons of -Yoinks!- he comes across, they both offer similar dynamics with their dialogue. Ellis is just as optimistic and cheerful during a zombie apocalypse, like when he childishly bursts in happiness upon seeing Kiddie Land in the Dark Carnival campaign. So as we can see, the environment and nature of the game doesn’t really mean we cannot make characters have more prominent personalities. I don’t want Halo to have the L4D level of dynamic personalities, but it would certainly be nice if the squad could talk a bit more expressively, like the way Buck does. They can both take their jobs seriously AND have amusing lines of dialogues that express their personalities, like the ODSTs in Halo 3: ODST or Noble Team in Halo: Reach.