I’ve been watching Halo Infinite videos where half comment section and the creator are less than enthused for the return of grenade hitmarkers. That feature seems to be a highly contended topic within the Halo Community_._ So with that being said, I have to ask; why?
Why do people hate grenade hitmarkers? An indication that you damaged your opponent with a grenade is somehow a bad thing?
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> I’ve been watching Halo Infinite videos where half comment section and the creator are less than enthused for the return of grenade hitmarkers. That feature seems to be a highly contended topic within the Halo Community_._ So with that being said, I have to ask; why? Why do people hate grenade hitmarkers? An indication that you damaged your opponent with a grenade is somehow a bad thing?
Because it allows you to throw a grenade around a corner and get feedback on if someone is there or not. You can essentially use them as mini UAVs. I can’t tell you how many times in Halo 5 I shot a Scorpion round into a building or thrown a grenade around a corner and gotten that visual feedback and then either proceeded to keep putting rounds in there or totally altered how I would have approached the situation.
I personally don’t mind either way, however to answer your question I suppose having your opponent have an indication that they’ve damaged you even if they cant visibly verify it would allude to some kind of slight advantage, being that an element of surprise is stripped away from you. Halo has always been a game of outmaneuvering and outplaying one another in every which way you can think of. Hit markers with grenades would slightly limit your options to charge your opponent especially if they know you have in fact been damaged. Now, I cant speak for everyone when I say this, but its what I’ve gathered since e3. At the end of the day, the players skill and experience will trump most controversial mechanics such as that, in my opinion.
Hope this brings a bit of understanding, its most definitely a good question and topic to discuss
I don’t like hit markers. Maybe hit markers are okay in campaign or firefight. Grenade wise all I have to do is spam grenades to see where enemies are hiding instead of saving them and using my explosives more wisely and sparingly. Now all my enemies are going to spam grenades at me when I’m trying to be sneaky. Hopefully hit markets aren’t in ranked playlists.
All in all I don’t like hit markers because it makes it’s harder for the players taking fire to have a chance. If I can calculate my hits by hit markers then I don’t even need to see what I’m shooting at. Hit markers lead to a lot of spray n pray like play style tactics. Call of duty to me was an unrealistic shooter and they had hit markers and back then I felt like halo 3 felt more real for being a space shooter in the year 2552. So with that said hit markers to me are just unrealistic if your trying to make a game feel more immersive. I like it when the dude say “double kill, triple kill, overkill” because that hypes the situation and it’s unexpected. Now you can just fish for hit markers. Fishing for hit markers gets old, I’d rather be surprised that I defeated the enemy. Now people can carry an automatic which will be the fishing lure to fish for hit markers and have a precision weapon to fillet. Pun intended.
I noticed 343 likes call of duty because halo 4 you could make your load out classes and had hit markers. Halo 5 switched aim down sight from classic halo to call of duty style. Also people don’t like sprint and that’s a whole other topic.
You get a lot of info, as has already been mentioned above. If you know your grenade damaged a player,
you feel more comfortable rushing in to get the kill. If you don’t get a hit or don’t know if you got a hit, you will play less aggressively. On the other side of things, the person who gets hit then knows the thrower is about to rush him/her. That can be useful, depending on a few things. I also don’t really have a preference of whether or not hitmarkers should be included.
Because no one deserves free information from chucking AOE explosives. Period. If you want to know whether your explosives did damage then use your eyes or your teammates.
Information is a powerful tool and if you don’t understand why being able to get that information with grenades and other explosives out of line of sight is a problem I can’t help you.
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> Because no one deserves free information from chucking AOE explosives. Period. If you want to know whether your explosives did damage then use your eyes or your teammates.
>
> Information is a powerful tool and if you don’t understand why being able to get that information with grenades and other explosives out of line of sight is a problem I can’t help you.
I wouldn’t really have an issue if hitmarkers were removed but I personally think hitmarkers aid the players into navigating maps more strategically. What about people who just constantly camp? It could easily punish those who just do that the whole time.
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> > 2533274819446242;6:
> > Because no one deserves free information from chucking AOE explosives. Period. If you want to know whether your explosives did damage then use your eyes or your teammates.
> >
> > Information is a powerful tool and if you don’t understand why being able to get that information with grenades and other explosives out of line of sight is a problem I can’t help you.
>
> I wouldn’t really have an issue if hitmarkers were removed but I personally think hitmarkers aid the players into navigating maps more strategically. What about people who just constantly camp? It could easily punish those who just do that the whole time.
You deal with “campers” the same way you did before grenade hitmarkers. You should be navigating the map “strategically” by communicating with your teammates and not bumbling around corners. Campers, outside of people straight up hiding in broken map geometry have historically not been an issue because dedicated campers give up power weapon and map control to a team moving around. Otherwise “Camping” being an effective long term strategy is a map design issue that isn’t fixed by encouraging players to chuck grenades with reckless abandon.
Giving out more free information can often help campers more than it does the people trying to hunt them, see also: motion tracker but I digress.
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> > > 2533274819446242;6:
> > > Because no one deserves free information from chucking AOE explosives. Period. If you want to know whether your explosives did damage then use your eyes or your teammates.
> > >
> > > Information is a powerful tool and if you don’t understand why being able to get that information with grenades and other explosives out of line of sight is a problem I can’t help you.
> >
> > I wouldn’t really have an issue if hitmarkers were removed but I personally think hitmarkers aid the players into navigating maps more strategically. What about people who just constantly camp? It could easily punish those who just do that the whole time.
>
> You deal with “campers” the same way you did before grenade hitmarkers. You should be navigating the map “strategically” by communicating with your teammates and not bumbling around corners. Campers, outside of people straight up hiding in broken map geometry have historically not been an issue because dedicated campers give up power weapon and map control to a team moving around. Otherwise “Camping” being an effective long term strategy is a map design issue that isn’t fixed by encouraging players to chuck grenades with reckless abandon.
>
> Giving out more free information can often help campers more than it does the people trying to hunt them, see also: motion tracker but I digress.
If you ask me dude, I think “throwing grenades with reckless abandon” was a tactic that arguably existed well before 343’s Halo games because of the lack of feedback. Say you were on a map like Narrows, the moment the match starts you’d have both teams chucking grenades from each end of the map. The Pit even faces the same “issue,” all of Bungies Halo games I think promote that even more so.
Grenade hitmarkers are god awful and should never be in Halo. You are being given awareness that you didn’t earn.
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> > > > 2533274819446242;6:
> > > > Because no one deserves free information from chucking AOE explosives. Period. If you want to know whether your explosives did damage then use your eyes or your teammates.
> > > >
> > > > Information is a powerful tool and if you don’t understand why being able to get that information with grenades and other explosives out of line of sight is a problem I can’t help you.
> > >
> > > I wouldn’t really have an issue if hitmarkers were removed but I personally think hitmarkers aid the players into navigating maps more strategically. What about people who just constantly camp? It could easily punish those who just do that the whole time.
> >
> > You deal with “campers” the same way you did before grenade hitmarkers. You should be navigating the map “strategically” by communicating with your teammates and not bumbling around corners. Campers, outside of people straight up hiding in broken map geometry have historically not been an issue because dedicated campers give up power weapon and map control to a team moving around. Otherwise “Camping” being an effective long term strategy is a map design issue that isn’t fixed by encouraging players to chuck grenades with reckless abandon.
> >
> > Giving out more free information can often help campers more than it does the people trying to hunt them, see also: motion tracker but I digress.
>
> If you ask me dude, I think “throwing grenades with reckless abandon” was a tactic that arguably existed well before 343’s Halo games because of the lack of feedback. Say you were on a map like Narrows, the moment the match starts you’d have both teams chucking grenades from each end of the map. The Pit even faces the same “issue,” all of Bungies Halo games I think promote that even more so.
Those examples you are using don’t support the idea the way you seem to think they do.
The start of the match is one of the few times you know exactly where every enemy player will be. By memorizing where to throw players can catch others off guard. Why is that an issue? That’s something you figure out after investing time into the game. What grenade hitmarkers do is give that type of info out for free.
Quin in the latest vidoc talked about how the design team has evaluated how the sandbox has been tuned so players feel that kills and power weapons are earned, not given. Grenade hit markers encourage players to chuck nades into any enclosed space and get free information. Players don’t have to be camping, you could just be passing through a room and get hit with a stray nade which tells your opponent 2 things, your shields are weak and you are in the room. Nade hit markers don’t really discourage camping, because as soon as you kill someone as a camper the whole team knows your in the room. Nade hit markers serve as a means to extend your radar for very little cost in my eyes.
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> Grenade hitmarkers are god awful and should never be in Halo. You are being given awareness that you didn’t earn.
How do you “earn” exactly? You are quite literally just throwing a grenade and hoping it hits. Just like every other Halo game. The only difference is that modern Halo’s tell you whether you hit an opponent or not. Its not like it 100 percent inherently bestows upon you an advantage because you still need to have the skill to wade through other potential combatants to finish the job, and even if you do there’s no guarantee you’ll actually complete what you unintentionally set out to do.
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> > > 2535448497705415;7:
> > > > 2533274819446242;6:
> > > > Because no one deserves free information from chucking AOE explosives. Period. If you want to know whether your explosives did damage then use your eyes or your teammates.
> > > >
> > > > Information is a powerful tool and if you don’t understand why being able to get that information with grenades and other explosives out of line of sight is a problem I can’t help you.
> > >
> > > I wouldn’t really have an issue if hitmarkers were removed but I personally think hitmarkers aid the players into navigating maps more strategically. What about people who just constantly camp? It could easily punish those who just do that the whole time.
> >
> > You deal with “campers” the same way you did before grenade hitmarkers. You should be navigating the map “strategically” by communicating with your teammates and not bumbling around corners. Campers, outside of people straight up hiding in broken map geometry have historically not been an issue because dedicated campers give up power weapon and map control to a team moving around. Otherwise “Camping” being an effective long term strategy is a map design issue that isn’t fixed by encouraging players to chuck grenades with reckless abandon.
> >
> > Giving out more free information can often help campers more than it does the people trying to hunt them, see also: motion tracker but I digress.
>
> If you ask me dude, I think “throwing grenades with reckless abandon” was a tactic that arguably existed well before 343’s Halo games because of the lack of feedback. Say you were on a map like Narrows, the moment the match starts you’d have both teams chucking grenades from each end of the map. The Pit even faces the same “issue,” all of Bungies Halo games I think promote that even more so.
You can always blindly throw grenades regardless of whether grenade hitmakers are in the game, the difference is that you could not get free information of an enemy player’s location and and damage from beyond line of sight which only encourages mindless spamming even more than before. This really isn’t that complicated if you would actually take the time to listen rather than reflexively defend grenade hitmarkers.
There are simply more incentives for randomly throwing grenades when hitmarkers are present. High reward potential reward for virtually no effort.
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> > > 2533274819446242;8:
> > > > 2535448497705415;7:
> > > > > 2533274819446242;6:
> > > > > Because no one deserves free information from chucking AOE explosives. Period. If you want to know whether your explosives did damage then use your eyes or your teammates.
> > > > >
> > > > > Information is a powerful tool and if you don’t understand why being able to get that information with grenades and other explosives out of line of sight is a problem I can’t help you.
> > > >
> > > > I wouldn’t really have an issue if hitmarkers were removed but I personally think hitmarkers aid the players into navigating maps more strategically. What about people who just constantly camp? It could easily punish those who just do that the whole time.
> > >
> > > You deal with “campers” the same way you did before grenade hitmarkers. You should be navigating the map “strategically” by communicating with your teammates and not bumbling around corners. Campers, outside of people straight up hiding in broken map geometry have historically not been an issue because dedicated campers give up power weapon and map control to a team moving around. Otherwise “Camping” being an effective long term strategy is a map design issue that isn’t fixed by encouraging players to chuck grenades with reckless abandon.
> > >
> > > Giving out more free information can often help campers more than it does the people trying to hunt them, see also: motion tracker but I digress.
> >
> > If you ask me dude, I think “throwing grenades with reckless abandon” was a tactic that arguably existed well before 343’s Halo games because of the lack of feedback. Say you were on a map like Narrows, the moment the match starts you’d have both teams chucking grenades from each end of the map. The Pit even faces the same “issue,” all of Bungies Halo games I think promote that even more so.
>
> Those examples you are using don’t support the idea the way you seem to think they do.
> The start of the match is one of the few times you know exactly where every enemy player will be. By memorizing where to throw players can catch others off guard. Why is that an issue? That’s something you figure out after investing time into the game. What grenade hitmarkers do is give that type of info out for free.
I don’t think that’s an issue at all, im referencing what the other guy said about throwing grenades with reckless abandon. I’m just saying that previous Halo bungie games definitely promote that activity as well, and not only at the start of every multiplayer match but quite literally in every moment of a match.
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> > > 2533274819446242;8:
> > > > 2535448497705415;7:
> > > > > 2533274819446242;6:
> > > > > Because no one deserves free information from chucking AOE explosives. Period. If you want to know whether your explosives did damage then use your eyes or your teammates.
> > > > >
> > > > > Information is a powerful tool and if you don’t understand why being able to get that information with grenades and other explosives out of line of sight is a problem I can’t help you.
> > > >
> > > > I wouldn’t really have an issue if hitmarkers were removed but I personally think hitmarkers aid the players into navigating maps more strategically. What about people who just constantly camp? It could easily punish those who just do that the whole time.
> > >
> > > You deal with “campers” the same way you did before grenade hitmarkers. You should be navigating the map “strategically” by communicating with your teammates and not bumbling around corners. Campers, outside of people straight up hiding in broken map geometry have historically not been an issue because dedicated campers give up power weapon and map control to a team moving around. Otherwise “Camping” being an effective long term strategy is a map design issue that isn’t fixed by encouraging players to chuck grenades with reckless abandon.
> > >
> > > Giving out more free information can often help campers more than it does the people trying to hunt them, see also: motion tracker but I digress.
> >
> > If you ask me dude, I think “throwing grenades with reckless abandon” was a tactic that arguably existed well before 343’s Halo games because of the lack of feedback. Say you were on a map like Narrows, the moment the match starts you’d have both teams chucking grenades from each end of the map. The Pit even faces the same “issue,” all of Bungies Halo games I think promote that even more so.
>
> You can always blindly throw grenades regardless of whether grenade hitmakers are in the game, the difference is that you could not get free information of an enemy player’s location and and damage from beyond line of sight which only encourages mindless spamming even more than before. This really isn’t that complicated if you would actually take the time to listen rather than reflexively defend grenade hitmarkers.
>
> There are simply more incentives for randomly throwing grenades when hitmarkers are present. High reward potential reward for virtually no effort.
It’s not complicated, I hear you loud and clear
(Or “type” and clear? Whatever). And I understand.
The thing is that when you do throw grenades and they hit and you receive the indication you don’t necessarily know how much you damaged them especially when they’re out of your line of sight so i don’t necessarily think its a “high reward” situation all of the time because also, there are ways to combat that even if you’re on the receiving end of a explosion.
Sure, If it incentivizes reckless throwing then thats a problem for the player throwing them to deal with. Because its not like theres a guaranteed successful kill because of that.
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> > 2535415744086631;10:
> > Grenade hitmarkers are god awful and should never be in Halo. You are being given awareness that you didn’t earn.
>
> How do you “earn” exactly? You are quite literally just throwing a grenade and hoping it hits. Just like every other Halo game. The only difference is that modern Halo’s tell you whether you hit an opponent or not. Its not like it 100 percent inherently bestows upon you an advantage because you still need to have the skill to wade through other potential combatants to finish the job, and even if you do there’s no guarantee you’ll actually complete what you unintentionally set out to do.
Not everyone is just throwing a grenade hoping it hits. If you are proficient enough with grenades you will know if you damage another player. Giving this info away for free doesn’t make sense.
If someone is able to sneak around then I don’t think they should have that basically nullified by another player simply throwing a grenade down a hallway. You already have a radar in most gametypes. That’s plenty enough already. After that you should be using your team and your awareness.
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> Grenade hitmarkers are god awful and should never be in Halo. You are being given awareness that you didn’t earn.
This times 1000.
I also don’t believe it should be an option to turn on in competitive. We need to quit making games competitive mode vs social such drastically different. They need to feel as if you are playing the same game minus a few tweaks. Only way for competitive to actually grow.
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> Sure, If it incentivizes reckless throwing then thats a problem for the player throwing them to deal with. Because its not like theres a guaranteed successful kill because of that.
It’s not about whether you get the kill or not, it’s about whether you’re deserving of that information for doing something so basic.
> 2535448497705415;16:
> It’s not complicated, I hear you loud and clear
> (Or “type” and clear? Whatever). And I understand.
>
> The thing is that when you do throw grenades and they hit and you receive the indication you don’t necessarily know how much you damaged them especially when they’re out of your line of sight so i don’t necessarily think its a “high reward” situation all of the time because also, there are ways to combat that even if you’re on the receiving end of a explosion.
>
> Sure, If it incentivizes reckless throwing then thats a problem for the player throwing them to deal with. Because its not like theres a guaranteed successful kill because of that.
It doesn’t matter whether a successful kill results from the grenade or not, its the fact that the possibility exists. Just because you or any other singular person or team doesn’t capitalize on free information does not mean that others won’t. There potential reward vastly outweighs any real risk.
Simply knowing that 1 player has taken any amount of damage at X location is a huge advantage, especially when you did not have to expose yourself to learn that information. You say you understand, but you clearly don’t. Why do you think you deserve to know what’s happening outside your line of sight? Motion tracker is bad enough we don’t need cross map radar scans.