Good Skill based Matchmaking

Games Halo Infinite
1

So, Halo 5, is a sweat fest even in the casual Arena list, as Warzone. A bad SBMM implementation will cause the problem that COD: Modern Warfare 2019 has: You do good for 2 consecutive matches, and they throw you to a lobby full of sweats and tryhards.

The closest thing that we have to a good SBMM is the Halo MCC matchmaking, which matches you with people that is in your same tour, and in a gap of ranks (idk, im rank 46, and it matches me with ranks 40´s-60´s). The game is fun, balanced, and unless you are smurfing, the skill will be mostly the same for all
I want something like this in Infinite, so i can have fun while playing social matches instead of being in the need to play like a tryhard just because the whole enemy team is a tryhard party

2

> 2535424229992654;1:
> So, Halo 5, is a sweat fest even in the casual Arena list, as Warzone. A bad SBMM implementation will cause the problem that COD: Modern Warfare 2019 has: You do good for 2 consecutive matches, and they throw you to a lobby full of sweats and tryhards.
>
> The closest thing that we have to a good SBMM is the Halo MCC matchmaking, which matches you with people that is in your same tour, and in a gap of ranks (idk, im rank 46, and it matches me with ranks 40´s-60´s). The game is fun, balanced, and unless you are smurfing, the skill will be mostly the same for all
> I want something like this in Infinite, so i can have fun while playing social matches instead of being in the need to play like a tryhard just because the whole enemy team is a tryhard party

That’s going to happen regardless. Some people take every game seriously , whether that be ranked , social or what have you. I agree that Halo in general shines when a proper skill base MM is implemented , but it won’t fix said problem.

3

Yeah I’m hoping Infinite doesn’t feel too sweaty in social. I’m all for SBMM to an extent but in a lot of games social can feel even sweatier than ranked and that’s pretty backwards, like Apex right now for example.

4

> 2535424229992654;1:
> So, Halo 5, is a sweat fest even in the casual Arena list, as Warzone. A bad SBMM implementation will cause the problem that COD: Modern Warfare 2019 has: You do good for 2 consecutive matches, and they throw you to a lobby full of sweats and tryhards.
>
> The closest thing that we have to a good SBMM is the Halo MCC matchmaking, which matches you with people that is in your same tour, and in a gap of ranks (idk, im rank 46, and it matches me with ranks 40´s-60´s). The game is fun, balanced, and unless you are smurfing, the skill will be mostly the same for all
> I want something like this in Infinite, so i can have fun while playing social matches instead of being in the need to play like a tryhard just because the whole enemy team is a tryhard party

What exactly is the definition of “sweats” and “tryhards”?

I’m guessing you are implying that people who beat you must be sweating due to exertion because they’re concentrating so hard?

Maybe they’re just better than you? They may be playing at a fairly relaxed, casual level but that’s still better than you playing at 100%.

I’ve seen these complaints before (I play Apex daily) but it always can be distilled down to “I just want to casually destroy noobs”. And honestly, if that’s what you want, you could get that from just playing campaign co-op and shooting AI opponents.

5

> 2533274935834633;4:
> > 2535424229992654;1:
> > So, Halo 5, is a sweat fest even in the casual Arena list, as Warzone. A bad SBMM implementation will cause the problem that COD: Modern Warfare 2019 has: You do good for 2 consecutive matches, and they throw you to a lobby full of sweats and tryhards.
> >
> > The closest thing that we have to a good SBMM is the Halo MCC matchmaking, which matches you with people that is in your same tour, and in a gap of ranks (idk, im rank 46, and it matches me with ranks 40´s-60´s). The game is fun, balanced, and unless you are smurfing, the skill will be mostly the same for all
> > I want something like this in Infinite, so i can have fun while playing social matches instead of being in the need to play like a tryhard just because the whole enemy team is a tryhard party
>
> What exactly is the definition of “sweats” and “tryhards”?
>
> I’m guessing you are implying that people who beat you must be sweating due to exertion because they’re concentrating so hard?
>
> Maybe they’re just better than you? They may be playing at a fairly relaxed, casual level but that’s still better than you playing at 100%.
>
> I’ve seen these complaints before (I play Apex daily) but it always can be distilled down to “I just want to casually destroy noobs”. And honestly, if that’s what you want, you could get that from just playing campaign co-op and shooting AI opponents.

You’ve just perfectly described the big problem with SBMM. I keep playing people who are better than me. Why can’t I play people MY skill level?

Just because I had a decent match three or four times doesn’t mean I should suddenly be lifted into a better skill bracket. It doesn’t mean I’m suddenly MLG.

SBMM fails horrendously in most games it’s implemented in because it doesn’t even achieve its own purpose successfully, because it’s far too sensitive to slight changes in skill over short periods of time (ala Modern Warfare). I don’t see why you’re defending considering it’s rarely pulled off well. Why not just play it safe and forget about SBMM?

I don’t like your final reasoning being “let’s generalise my opposition’s argument for the sake of making them look bad.” I just generalised your underlying argument with this one statement, doesn’t feel great, does it?

6

> 2533275010601282;5:
> You’ve just perfectly described the big problem with SBMM. I keep playing people who are better than me. Why can’t I play people MY skill level?
>
> Just because I had a decent match three or four times doesn’t mean I should suddenly be lifted into a better skill bracket. It doesn’t mean I’m suddenly MLG.
>
> SBMM fails horrendously in most games it’s implemented in because it doesn’t even achieve its own purpose successfully, because it’s far too sensitive to slight changes in skill over short periods of time (ala Modern Warfare). I don’t see why you’re defending considering it’s rarely pulled off well. Why not just play it safe and forget about SBMM?
>
> I don’t like your final reasoning being “let’s generalise my opposition’s argument for the sake of making them look bad.” I just generalised your underlying argument with this one statement, doesn’t feel great, does it?

Can you clarify, when you say “I keep playing people who are better than me”, do you mean that the game more often puts you in a match with players better than you than it does in a match with players worse than you?

If the above is what you mean, then can you provide evidence that this is indeed happening? Because when I look at your service record, that’s not what I see. I see an unusually well rounded profile where you win as many matches as you lose, and get as many kills as deaths, which implies that the players you play with are not, on average, better than you.

I think there real issue is that there’s a perceptual bias to prefer matches where you do well. And I mean this in the most neutral, nonjudgemental way possible: this is just a thing that humans do. Doing well makes us feel good, so when we are actually doing average, we underestimate our performance because we wanted more.

7

> 2533274935834633;4:
> > 2535424229992654;1:
> > So, Halo 5, is a sweat fest even in the casual Arena list, as Warzone. A bad SBMM implementation will cause the problem that COD: Modern Warfare 2019 has: You do good for 2 consecutive matches, and they throw you to a lobby full of sweats and tryhards.
> >
> > The closest thing that we have to a good SBMM is the Halo MCC matchmaking, which matches you with people that is in your same tour, and in a gap of ranks (idk, im rank 46, and it matches me with ranks 40´s-60´s). The game is fun, balanced, and unless you are smurfing, the skill will be mostly the same for all
> > I want something like this in Infinite, so i can have fun while playing social matches instead of being in the need to play like a tryhard just because the whole enemy team is a tryhard party
>
> What exactly is the definition of “sweats” and “tryhards”?
>
> I’m guessing you are implying that people who beat you must be sweating due to exertion because they’re concentrating so hard?
>
> Maybe they’re just better than you? They may be playing at a fairly relaxed, casual level but that’s still better than you playing at 100%.
>
> I’ve seen these complaints before (I play Apex daily) but it always can be distilled down to “I just want to casually destroy noobs”. And honestly, if that’s what you want, you could get that from just playing campaign co-op and shooting AI opponents.

What i meant by tryhard is those guys that make literally everything to get a kill, like camping with SPNKrs in corners, get to inaccesible parts of the maps to avoid being killed, etc. I know that there are people better than me, but those people that i mention can be distingued from actually good peoole

8

> 2533274825830455;6:
> > 2533275010601282;5:
> > You’ve just perfectly described the big problem with SBMM. I keep playing people who are better than me. Why can’t I play people MY skill level?
> >
> > Just because I had a decent match three or four times doesn’t mean I should suddenly be lifted into a better skill bracket. It doesn’t mean I’m suddenly MLG.
> >
> > SBMM fails horrendously in most games it’s implemented in because it doesn’t even achieve its own purpose successfully, because it’s far too sensitive to slight changes in skill over short periods of time (ala Modern Warfare). I don’t see why you’re defending considering it’s rarely pulled off well. Why not just play it safe and forget about SBMM?
> >
> > I don’t like your final reasoning being “let’s generalise my opposition’s argument for the sake of making them look bad.” I just generalised your underlying argument with this one statement, doesn’t feel great, does it?
>
> Can you clarify, when you say “I keep playing people who are better than me”, do you mean that the game more often puts you in a match with players better than you than it does in a match with players worse than you?
>
> If the above is what you mean, then can you provide evidence that this is indeed happening? Because when I look at your service record, that’s not what I see. I see an unusually well rounded profile where you win as many matches as you lose, and get as many kills as deaths, which implies that the players you play with are not, on average, better than you.
>
> I think there real issue is that there’s a perceptual bias to prefer matches where you do well. And I mean this in the most neutral, nonjudgemental way possible: this is just a thing that humans do. Doing well makes us feel good, so when we are actually doing average, we underestimate our performance because we wanted more.

Huh, I always thought I had a VEERRRRYYYY negative K/D, so you’re definitely on to something with the whole point of perception. Still, I enjoy matches far more when it’s really close, neck-and-neck (almost a draw). I just wish that this sort of experience had a greater level of consistency in games with SBMM, because I don’t really enjoy pubstomping nor getting pubstomped, and while SBMM theoretically should fix that, it feels like it tends to over-correct with regards to matching me with others. I do well for 2 games, then I do horribly for the next 3. Even though my K/D suggests that I on average receive fair and balanced matches, my K/D or win loss doesn’t accurately measure the deviation in my performance. And I don’t think my opinion is isolated, inconsistency seems to be a genuine problem for others that discuss this topic on any forum/website.

Another problem with SBMM is that instead of the “pubstombing phenomenon” being removed from the social aspect of the game (the purpose of SBMM), it really just gives one the ability to control when they can wreck a lobby (through famed methods such as reverse-boosting, although that sounds like it is much more difficult to do under the strict rules and guidelines of the MCC).

I really should have said “I keep playing people who are significantly better or worse (with very few matches in between)providing an inconsistent experience, therefore SBMM may not be implemented as effectively as it could be.” And, unfortunately I do not have much proof or evidence for my experiences on MCC (or any other game, for that matter), however I believe that this is definitely something that can be proved rather easily with some investigation.

9

We need a system based on detecting if someone is faking playing bad. [OF COURSE, THE FORUM MODS MIGHT LOCK THIS SINCE I’M RESPONDING TO A OLDER FORUM. THEN YOU WONDER WHY STUFF NEVER FIXED.]