Here’s a post I found (NYCC, not mine) that I think you guys may appreciate:
> “Here’s some of my thoughts on BR vs DMR balance in Slayer Pro for you guys to digest:
>
> Flinching and Bloom:
>
> I feel that it’s pretty significant that zooming in against good players in this game is just not a good idea at anything but extreme range, unless it is for a quick-scope to finish a kill with a headshot. Good players simply hit most if not of their shots in their average firefight, so zooming in too much is pointless because you’re going to flinch like crazy. Because of this, you want to spend most of your time zoomed out.
>
> Now, the DMR’s bloom is more of a factor than people think when it comes to headshots (not body shots). Yes, the DMR has a faster kill time than the BR, but to get a 5sk at most common ranges, the bloom will be maxed out after the 4th shot. Thus, getting a headshot consistently without zooming in is impossible at many ranges. The trick is to land 4 body shots, and then quick-scope at the head for the final head shot. In my experience, this is the only way to consistently get a 5sk at anything but close range because the increased autoaim and accuracy you get from being zoomed in are taken advantage of, and you avoid the whole flinching thing at the same time. That being said, if you miss your 5th shot it’s easy to get caught up in a flinchy zoom and be killed before you can get your next shot lined up. It’s just very difficult to do against good players.
>
> At the same time, the BR is almost perfectly accurate - there’s barely any spread, at least at the ranges the game is played at. The BR can be used at most common ranges without having to be zoomed in. This makes it much more consistent and reliable than the DMR at a mid range that I’ll talk about in the last section.
>
> Bleedthrough:
>
> In case everyone didn’t know, the starting rifles do not have bleed through. IMO, this gives a significant disadvantage to the DMR compared to the BR because it makes the BR a bit more effective when it comes to finishing kills and teamshooting (the 3-round burst can pop shields and headshot in the same burst). There are going to be cases where your DMR can’t finish a kill in one shot but the BR can simply because there’s a teenie bit of shield remaining on your target.
>
> This also gives the BR more potential synergy with many other weapons than the DMR. For example, my custom loadout for Infinity games uses a Plasma Pistol’s normal shot spam to lower shields so that my Light Rifle can get the easy headshot. The BR can be used in this way as well. The DMR however, can not, because the 3 shots to lower shields that I am going for still leave a bit of shields to bleed through - it’s going to take an extra shot. I’ve seen this happening with many other weapons found on the map as well - when you pick up a second weapon, many times it’s better to have a BR than a DMR.
>
> Effective Ranges Comparison:
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> With all of this said and done, feel that the flinching and bloom factors of the DMR are the most significant factors that determine which weapons are more powerful at specific ranges. Here is my current opinion:
>
> *The DMR is advantaged at close ranges where headshots can be landed consistently without zooming, thus consistently avoiding the flinch factor and allowing the DMR to kill faster.
>
> *The BR is advantaged at close-mid ranges where the DMR is forced to zoom and deal with flinching in order to consistently get headshots, while the BR can consistently and effective land headshots without zooming.
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> *The DMR is again advantaged at mid ranges+ where the BR is forced to zoom in order to avoid landing partial burts, forcing both weapons to deal with flinching and allowing the DMR to kill faster.
>
> As you can see, flinching is a big factor in the balance between these two weapons in the current metagame. Could players learn to ignore flinching in the future? Possibly, but I still think that in practical gameplay where no one is perfect, flinching will continue to be a factor. We shall see.
>
> Now, I think that the flinching mechanic is dumb, but from my limited experience it really doesn’t ruin the game or anything that drastic. I do, however, feel that 343 doesn’t understand how it effects gameplay and weapon balance. If it does break the game, it will be because 343 failed to realize how players would play with flinching in the game, such as quick-scoping to headshot for example.”
I don’t know if this is how the BR and DMR will end up working in the full game, but he does bring up some interesting points that I hadn’t thought of yet, like the Plasma Pistol working better with the BR and Light Rifle because of bleedthrough. Does this post give you any ideas when it comes to tactics, teamwork and loadouts that suit a particular starting weapon?
> > I do, however, feel that 343 doesn’t understand how it effects gameplay and weapon balance.
>
> I imagine that this could easily be applied to every other change made in the game.
>
> Good post though. The bloom part didn’t surprise me one bit: it’s terrible no matter how it’s implemented. It should have never come back.
Bloom can actually be implemented as a really good competitive setting, you just need to think outside the box. If its effect weren’t shown in the reticule (forcing players to get a feel for the optimal firing cadence and memorize it, sticking to it in intense situations) and any bullets when the reticle is bloomed past its target automatically miss, you’d have yourself an amazing feature.
> > > I do, however, feel that 343 doesn’t understand how it effects gameplay and weapon balance.
> >
> > I imagine that this could easily be applied to every other change made in the game.
> >
> > Good post though. The bloom part didn’t surprise me one bit: it’s terrible no matter how it’s implemented. It should have never come back.
>
> Bloom can actually be implemented as a really good competitive setting, you just need to think outside the box. If its effect weren’t shown in the reticule (forcing players to get a feel for the optimal firing cadence and memorize it, sticking to it in intense situations) and any bullets when the reticle is bloomed past its target automatically miss, you’d have yourself an amazing feature.
>
> Just proving that all bloom =/= a bad idea.
The inherent pseudorandomness of bloom can never be good for competition and skill: regardless of whether they show it or not. If it worked properly, it would still slow the game down. When you throw bloom in along with guns that have a longer base kill time and armor abilities, gun fights become a horrid mess.
> > > > I do, however, feel that 343 doesn’t understand how it effects gameplay and weapon balance.
> > >
> > > I imagine that this could easily be applied to every other change made in the game.
> > >
> > > Good post though. The bloom part didn’t surprise me one bit: it’s terrible no matter how it’s implemented. It should have never come back.
> >
> > Bloom can actually be implemented as a really good competitive setting, you just need to think outside the box. If its effect weren’t shown in the reticule (forcing players to get a feel for the optimal firing cadence and memorize it, sticking to it in intense situations) and <mark>any bullets when the spread is bloomed past its target automatically miss</mark>, you’d have yourself an amazing feature.
> >
> > Just proving that all bloom =/= a bad idea.
>
> The inherent pseudorandomness of bloom can never be good for competition and skill: regardless of whether they show it or not. If it worked properly, it would still slow the game down. When you throw bloom in along with guns that have a longer base kill time and armor abilities, gun fights become a horrid mess.
The part I highlighted is meant to deal with bloom’s randomness. All I’m saying is that it can be possible to make bloom work. The problems in game pacing could be solved by a faster accurate fire rate.
> > Bleedthrough:
> >
> > In case everyone didn’t know, the starting rifles do not have bleed through. IMO, this gives a significant disadvantage to the DMR compared to the BR because it makes the BR a bit more effective when it comes to finishing kills and teamshooting (the 3-round burst can pop shields and headshot in the same burst). There are going to be cases where your DMR can’t finish a kill in one shot but the BR can simply because there’s a teenie bit of shield remaining on your target.
> >
> > This also gives the BR more potential synergy with many other weapons than the DMR. For example, my custom loadout for Infinity games uses a Plasma Pistol’s normal shot spam to lower shields so that my Light Rifle can get the easy headshot. The BR can be used in this way as well. The DMR however, can not, because the 3 shots to lower shields that I am going for still leave a bit of shields to bleed through - it’s going to take an extra shot. I’ve seen this happening with many other weapons found on the map as well - when you pick up a second weapon, many times it’s better to have a BR than a DMR.
I would like to know where they got the information that the starting weapons don’t have bleedthrough. I was told by BS Angel at Pax Prime that there was minimal bleedthrough implemented into the game, she couldn’t give me specific number because she didn’t know them off the top of her head and didn’t want me quoting wrong numbers.
Just my experience.
But overall yes I do agree with that post. Thats more of less how I felt after playing at Pax.
> > Bleedthrough:
> >
> > In case everyone didn’t know, the starting rifles do not have bleed through.
>
> Stopped reading. This is simply wrong.
Word on the street is consistently saying that the rifles do not have bleedthrough, so the rumor mill supports his claim at least.
Regardless, we won’t know for sure until we get our hands on the full game. I think that the post has some useful insight to digest, and nitpicking one detail of the post isn’t a good reason to skip reading the whole thing.
> > > I do, however, feel that 343 doesn’t understand how it effects gameplay and weapon balance.
> >
> > I imagine that this could easily be applied to every other change made in the game.
> >
> > Good post though. The bloom part didn’t surprise me one bit: it’s terrible no matter how it’s implemented. It should have never come back.
>
> Bloom can actually be implemented as a really good competitive setting, you just need to think outside the box. If its effect weren’t shown in the reticule (forcing players to get a feel for the optimal firing cadence and memorize it, sticking to it in intense situations) and any bullets when the reticle is bloomed past its target automatically miss, you’d have yourself an amazing feature.
>
> Just proving that all bloom =/= a bad idea.
IMO, there are plenty of acceptable ways to implement bloom. Most of which make sure that spamming makes your weapon way too inaccurate to rely on, and that the bloom resets so fast that pacing is always more efficient.
Other games like Counter-Strike actually use non-random patterns in their bloom. Players can learn these patterns and aim so that their bullets land every time when they spray.
Regardless, I do agree that bloom is a big negative that does not accomplish anything positive that can’t be achieved by more consistent means.
> Hopefully this is true and the whole “DMR being one to rule them all” scenario is just us being worried.
>
>
> Now I’d like to hear same sort of news about Binary Rifle, the .50 cal of Halo…
From what I understand, the Sniper and the Beam Rifle are 1-shot kills with Damage Boost. That sounds pretty awesome lol.
The DMR is overall much better in game. Shoots fast and the bloom isn’t even noticeable… and when you get damage boost you can drop a spartan’s shields in 2 shots lol
Much more convenient
