"Good" Halo doesnt mean revert to the stone age

There are a lot of threads that keep asking for Classic Halo. No bloom, no AAs. No equipment. No dual wielding. Just you, your gun, and grenades. I love that formula, but Halo needs change. Every Halo has changed gameplay. H2 introduced dual weilding. H3 gave us equipment. Reach introduced AAs, Assassinations, Bloom, and Loadouts. All of these are GREAT additions, just implemented wrong.

It would be a shame to see it all go to waste. I want it all back in Halo 4. The duel weilding. The equipment. And AAs should become equipment as well. Loadouts in gametypes were it fits. Fixed bloom.

And new additions.

As much as I love the original Halo, scrapping all these ideas makes Halo no different from CoD. Change and customization is one on the things that make Halo, Halo. Hell, maybe in Halo 12, we’ll have prone mode, and parachutes that actually fit in Halo and people will like it. You never know.

Halo needs to move forward and fix mistakes, not scrap em.

Why try and fix something that doesn’t belong there in the first place?

I don’t understand why you think halo needs change because i’d have a lot more fun playing a good halo game just how you described it like halo CE. Just adding some jet packs and other pointless things doesn’t give the game a whole new level of funness to the point I want to play it for a year straight non stop. Also there is no good way to implement bloom to the point where it doesn’t slow down game play and isn’t random in a HALO game.

> Why try and fix something that doesn’t belong there in the first place?

Just because something sucks in the game because it was implemented wrong doesn’t mean it doesn’t belong.

> I don’t understand why you think halo needs change because i’d have a lot more fun playing a good halo game just how you described it like halo CE. Just adding some jet packs and other pointless things doesn’t give the game a whole new level of funness to the point I want to play it for a year straight non stop. <mark>Also there is no good way to implement bloom to the point where it doesn’t slow down game play and isn’t random in a HALO game.</mark>

Sure buddy, whatever you say…

> > I don’t understand why you think halo needs change because i’d have a lot more fun playing a good halo game just how you described it like halo CE. Just adding some jet packs and other pointless things doesn’t give the game a whole new level of funness to the point I want to play it for a year straight non stop. <mark>Also there is no good way to implement bloom to the point where it doesn’t slow down game play and isn’t random in a HALO game.</mark>
>
> Sure buddy, whatever you say…

He’s Right You know. Bloom Won’t work on a 3-shot burst weapon because it would be worse than spread and Single shot weapons are so easy to use with such a low skill gap(DMR).

> I don’t understand why you think halo needs change because i’d have a lot more fun playing a good halo game just how you described it like halo CE. Just adding some jet packs and other pointless things doesn’t give the game a whole new level of funness to the point I want to play it for a year straight non stop. Also there is no good way to implement bloom to the point where it doesn’t slow down game play and isn’t random in a HALO game.

Yeah, I like playing the original “good halo” too. I played it nonstop for like 3 years. But if Halo 4 is the same as CE or even Halo 3, what’s the point of getting Halo 4 if you can get Halo 3 for 15 bucks? It would be like Modern Warfare 3.

> Just because something sucks in the game because it was implemented wrong doesn’t mean it doesn’t belong.

It’s easier said than done. I just don’t see the point in trying to come up with a solution to a problem when the game plays so much better without it. I don’t like any of the additions Reach brought to the table and no matter how they’re implemented I think they would still be game breaking. I just want Halo back :/.

Edit: Halo 4 can play like previous Halo titles without being an exact copy. A lot of things change with every release, no point in adding useless gamebreaking gimmicks on top of those changes.

I think most of the people who want AAs, bloom, and similar stuff gone, want those things gone because they aren’t Halo.

No, I mean, they literally aren’t Halo. Reach’s lead sandbox designer was Sage Merrill. Sage previously worked on a game called Shadowrun, and several of Reach’s “new” game mechanics came completely and directly out of that game – including AAs, bloom, crouching to reduce bloom, and (so I’m told) even the reticle for the DMR.

The “it’s not Halo” argument sounds ridiculous and whiny and entitled, but it actually is completely correct when referring to most of Reach’s “innovations”.

> I think most of the people who want AAs, bloom, and similar stuff gone, want those things gone because they aren’t Halo.
>
> No, I mean, they literally aren’t Halo. Reach’s lead sandbox designer was Sage Merrill. Sage previously worked on a game called Shadowrun, and several of Reach’s “new” game mechanics came completely and directly out of that game – including AAs, bloom, crouching to reduce bloom, and (so I’m told) even the reticle for the DMR.
>
> The “it’s not Halo” argument sounds ridiculous and whiny and entitled, but it actually is completely correct when referring to most of Reach’s “innovations”.

Your right i just saw the game play on youtube the reticle of DMR dose look similar to the one in the game

The sad thing is, there’s louds of different options within Reach people can play with to make completely new games, we have Forge which makes infinitely new maps. These options and tweaks are usually needed as patches or mods for even recent PC releases, and Reach has them on retail.

Infection, SWAT, Grifball, these weren’t created by Bungie. These gametypes were created by the community, people who went into the options and played around with them. But a lot of people are just trying to revert the options back to Halo 3, or even Halo: CE. While this isn’t a bad choice for new gametypes, they’re not looking forward and trying to create new gametypes, the one thing that has made Halo evolve and keep up with its competitors. But that came to a halt with Reach because for some reason nobody wanted to experiment anymore.

People like to follow the saying, “If it aint broke, don’t fix it”. That holds true for the opposite, if it’s broken you should fix it. But a lot of people seem to interpret it as, “If it aint broke don’t fix it, if it is broke get rid of it”.

I agree that innovation is important when keeping a title alive. And I don’t want a Halo 1, Halo 2, or Halo 3. And I sure as hell don’t want a Reach. I do want it to be Halo but it I want to be genuinely surprised with some of the new things. In a good way, of course. No more raising my eyebrows in disbelief when I lose a kill due to bloom.

I totally agree. It’s gotten so ironic on these forums to the point where I find myself laughing. People will say that they want Halo 4 line for line, just like Halo 2 and that they hate CoD in the same sentence. People hate CoD because it never changes not the gameplay. I won’t lie, I enjoy CoD. But if Halo is just like Halo 2 forever then Halo is just as bad as CoD. But I think 343i is smarter than me and most of the people on here, no offense community; I still love you guys.

> Infection, SWAT, Grifball, these weren’t created by Bungie. These gametypes were created by the community, people who went into the options and played around with them. But a lot of people are just trying to revert the options back to Halo 3, or even Halo: CE. While this isn’t a bad choice for new gametypes, they’re not looking forward and trying to create new gametypes, the one thing that has made Halo evolve and keep up with its competitors. But that came to a halt with Reach because for some reason nobody wanted to experiment anymore.

What ever happened to the community full of people experimenting with crap in Halo, finding ways to do things. Did it go away with a ton of bigits who all they care about is killing the guy on the other team, and playing match making? I miss the people who experimented and came up with new ideas. I hate to bash CODs community, but why does every one love to play the same recycled crap over and over again.

> I agree that innovation is important when keeping a title alive. And I don’t want a Halo 1, Halo 2, or Halo 3. And I sure as hell don’t want a Reach. I do want it to be Halo but it I want to be genuinely surprised with some of the new things.

I don’t want to see a copy & paste of Halo CE, 2, 3 or Reach, I want to see Halo 4, Halo isn’t COD, Halo is Halo, every Halo game is it’s own game with in the Halo Title. Every Halo game brings something new to the table, some of the things Reach brought to the table wasn’t liked by most of the community, but that doesn’t mean that they’re BAD, it just means that they are most likely broke, or need to be tweeked a little AAs, they might be a little better if they was more like power ups, you don’t spawn with them, you have to fight for them, and when you use them, that’s it, it’s used, you’ll have to wait for it to respawn.

> People like to say the following*, “If it aint broke, don’t fix it”. That holds true for the opposite, if it’s broken you should fix it. But a lot of people seem to interpret it as, “If it aint broke don’t fix it, if it is broke get rid of it”.

Good god, if I had a penny for every time I’ve heard “If it aint broke, don’t fix it” it’s one of the things that gets said over and over like a broken record, that, and “We hate AAs, we hate bloom, WE HATE REACH”

> I think most of the people who want AAs, bloom, and similar stuff gone, want those things gone because they aren’t Halo.
>
> No, I mean, they literally aren’t Halo. Reach’s lead sandbox designer was Sage Merrill. Sage previously worked on a game called Shadowrun, and several of Reach’s “new” game mechanics came completely and directly out of that game – including AAs, bloom, crouching to reduce bloom, and (so I’m told) even the reticle for the DMR.
>
> The “it’s not Halo” argument sounds ridiculous and whiny and entitled, but it actually is completely correct when referring to most of Reach’s “innovations”.

While they would be technically right, everything in games has come from another game before it.

If AAs came from powers in Shadowrun then powers in Shadowrun came from Halo. AAs and Equipment and Power Ups all share the same common idea. The differences between them are in how they are implemented. Equipment were Power Ups that you had to press a button to use, they also expanded what kinds of things happened beyond just more shields and being invisible.

As for the OP’s message? I agree. A lot of people are yelling, loudly, for a simple Halo but I do not agree that while bring success or even return the “fun” to Halo. I liked playing with building blocks. But then I found Legos.

> I think most of the people who want AAs, bloom, and similar stuff gone, want those things gone because they aren’t Halo.
>
> No, I mean, they literally aren’t Halo. Reach’s lead sandbox designer was Sage Merrill. Sage previously worked on a game called Shadowrun, and several of Reach’s “new” game mechanics came completely and directly out of that game – including AAs, bloom, crouching to reduce bloom, and (so I’m told) even the reticle for the DMR.
>
> The “it’s not Halo” argument sounds ridiculous and whiny and entitled, but it actually is completely correct when referring to most of Reach’s “innovations”.

I thought he left halo after halo 1? Sorry if im wrong.

> There are a lot of threads that keep asking for Classic Halo. No bloom, no AAs. No equipment. No dual wielding. Just you, your gun, and grenades. I love that formula, but Halo needs change. Every Halo has changed gameplay. H2 introduced dual weilding. H3 gave us equipment. Reach introduced AAs, Assassinations, Bloom, and Loadouts. All of these are GREAT additions, just implemented wrong.
>
> It would be a shame to see it all go to waste. I want it all back in Halo 4. The duel weilding. The equipment. And AAs should become equipment as well. Loadouts in gametypes were it fits. Fixed bloom.
>
> And new additions.
>
> As much as I love the original Halo, scrapping all these ideas makes Halo no different from CoD. Change and customization is one on the things that make Halo, Halo. Hell, maybe in Halo 12, we’ll have prone mode, and parachutes that actually fit in Halo and people will like it. You never know.
>
> Halo needs to move forward and fix mistakes, not scrap em.

You know, the real problem isn’t wanting to revert Halo back to original. After such changes that Reach provided us people have right to feared of change. When you think about it, when has Halo succeeded at implementing a new mechanic? Dual wielding? Pointless, it only made dual wieldable weapons a bit more powerful. Equipment? Not really the worst idea ever, but it wasn’t very revolutionary. Fun tools, but not that exciting.

There simply has been no good innovation in Halo. But what’s this good innovation then? For a feature to be good for the game it needs to:

  • be balanced
  • not take focus away from other aspects of the game
  • increase skill gap
  • be intuitive
  • not hinder core gameplay

There have been additions like this in Halo, only accidental. And whether you hate me or not for saying this or not, button combos were the perfect addition. Instead of removing them completely from Halo 3, Bungie could have spent some time balancing them and turning them to actual features.

There is also more to what the good innovation is, not hindering the core mechanics is the thing that Reach failed at. We already have a beautiful formula for how Halo should play, changing that is just pointless and waste of ten years of time. It should be reinforced instead. Instead of making new features to replace it, there should be new features to work around it and help reinforcing it.

And the last thing, the game should keep it’s simplicity. This doesn’t only apply to Halo, but to every single game around these days. When I look at the modern games, all I see is games filled with so many features that half of them will go unused just because the developers wanted to change the game or have more in the game even though there was already a perfectly working, possibly better, mechanic that does the same thing differently.

Let’s look at bloom for example, Reach screwed it, it was random. But if we had a perfect version of bloom, it would distract the players from actual more fun and skillfull mechanics in the game. Too iften do I see something happening in DMR fights that isn’t about randomness, people crouching instead of strafing to get a smaller bloom.

We can look at armor abilities next and notice the same trend. We have about six often used armor abilities. You would think that amount would add a load of tactics to the game. Well, technically yes, but not minding the fact that the armor abilities are mostly broken, the tactics they add aren’t intuitive and are mostly forced.

So, only thing I ask from Halo 4 is to be good and simple game where all the new gameplay additions fill the description of a good gameplay feature I posted above.

> > I don’t understand why you think halo needs change because i’d have a lot more fun playing a good halo game just how you described it like halo CE. Just adding some jet packs and other pointless things doesn’t give the game a whole new level of funness to the point I want to play it for a year straight non stop. Also there is no good way to implement bloom to the point where it doesn’t slow down game play and isn’t random in a HALO game.
>
> Yeah, I like playing the original “good halo” too. I played it nonstop for like 3 years. But if Halo 4 is the same as CE or even Halo 3, what’s the point of getting Halo 4 if you can get Halo 3 for 15 bucks? It would be like Modern Warfare 3.

sounds to me like you don’t want to play Halo at all… i think you should just play battlefield which chances every game.

> > > I don’t understand why you think halo needs change because i’d have a lot more fun playing a good halo game just how you described it like halo CE. Just adding some jet packs and other pointless things doesn’t give the game a whole new level of funness to the point I want to play it for a year straight non stop. Also there is no good way to implement bloom to the point where it doesn’t slow down game play and isn’t random in a HALO game.
> >
> > Yeah, I like playing the original “good halo” too. I played it nonstop for like 3 years. But if Halo 4 is the same as CE or even Halo 3, what’s the point of getting Halo 4 if you can get Halo 3 for 15 bucks? It would be like Modern Warfare 3.
>
> sounds to me like you don’t want to play Halo at all… i think you should just play battlefield which chances every game.

Thats not very true

Its a funny thing being a Halo fan.

For some people, Halo CE’s MP was the pinnacle of the series. For others Halo 2 was the best and Halo 3 ruined it. And yet others believe Halo 3 was the best of the series and that Reach ruined everything. I’ve seen several commentaries on the net in the last couple of days and in each the opinion of the person commenting was that a different Halo MP was the best of all time and everything else was blasphemous nonsense.