Good/Evil Guide to 343i era of HALO

Community Halo Universe
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Let’s get one thing out in the open right now. The only reason that I am sticking around for this new era of HALO is because of the new narrative direction that 343 Industries is taking the story of the Master Chief.

But the only problem that I have with that is the fact that they are presenting the story in a morally ambiguous tone, and I hate that. I don’t like the way that they are injecting the morality of the universe with copious amounts of cold, hard reality, making everything morally grey; not knowing who is friend and who is foe anymore. I don’t know about the rest of you, but I like to have my morality in check, thank you very much; not having it challenged to the point of it being uncomfortable for me.

You see, it really, really, really does matter on what is good and what is bad. I mean, if you aren’t a force for good, then what the hell are you?

No doubt that the rest of you are feeling the same way as I do, so I have taken upon myself to create a handy guide that will help you all with your own troubled moral compasses. The following presented are 2 sections that help distinguish on who is good and who is bad in this new era of HALO.

After looking them over, please offer your opinions in regards to this subject. I am looking for insight from fans who have been with the series since November 15, 2001 only.

GOOD

  • John-117Need I say more? He is the only one who can/will save the universe again and again, no matter how 343 Industries and Microsoft market the whole thing otherwise.
    Remember: No power in the 'verse can stop him.

  • Fred-104; Kelly-087; Linda-058Considering that they made it through the 1st-gen era of HALO, and them being John’s first true friends, they are undoubtedly still around for a reason.

  • Catherine HalseyLook, I do acknowledge/am very much well aware that she did some very bad things in regards to the SPARTAN-II program (I mean, she felt guilty about the whole thing as she was doing it), but she did it for a greater cause, leading her to be partly responsible for saving humanity, ergo making her one of the good guys. For 343 Industries to treat her so abominably after everything that she has been through, fills me with such indignation and rage that not even the deepest levels of Hell can contain. I just hope that they learn from their countless mistakes and redeem her character.

  • The ArbiterHe helped the Master Chief. 'Nuff said. (Although I am a bit disappointed in him for going to help Jameson Locke find the Master Chief in HALO 5: Guardians)

  • Lord HoodHe respects the Master Chief. Although I am a bit annoyed that he didn’t vouch for Dr. Halsey after the war ended, especially after vouching for her and the SPARTAN-IIs in the book HALO: First Strike.

  • Thomas LaskyHe respects the Master Chief. He helped John in HALO 4 and has a moral code/sense of humanity that has made him one of my favorite new characters, despite what happened in HALO: Infinity Spartan Ops. Although based on what very little footage I have seen of him for HALO 5: Guardians, I am a bit concerned as to where his true allegiances lie.

  • The LibrarianConsidering that she is the one who set everything in motion, she is the reason why John-117 is the way he is today. Plus, despite what has been said, she is still alive somewhere, along with the rest of the Forerunners.

BAD

  • The [Ur-]DidactAfter giving off an intimidating first appearance in HALO 4, this new villain has a hell of a lot of potential to carry the story of the Master Chief. It is obviously clear that he is still alive, and that he and John-117 will face off against each other for the entirety of the Reclaimer Saga. It would help fans appreciate him more if his motivations were explored in the games.

  • Serin Osman (AKA Serin-019)This cuss is the sole reason why the universe has completely gone to frak, no thanks to her and the frakking Office of frakking Naval Intelligence. I find her whole hatred for Catherine Halsey to be just plain childish and frakking stupid; she is just pissed because she didn’t become a SPARTAN-II on account of her having failed the augmentation process and ending up as one of the wash-outs of the program.

  • Sarah PalmerAlthough I liked her character concept in the beginning [before the release of and lead-up to HALO 4], that of a woman as the poster child of a 4th generation of super-soldiers; all my expectations came crashing down right at the start of HALO: Infinity Spartan Ops - Episode 3; for when she showed complete and utter disregard/disrespect for Catherine Halsey; right there and then, I lost all respect for her character altogether. Ever since then, I have viewed her in a negative way, unable to find any redeeming qualities in regards to her character. Now, I wish for nothing more than for her to be removed from the picture via an untimely and unfortunate demise.

  • Jul 'MdamaSeeing as how he is a so-called leader of a broken Covenant, I also wish for nothing more than for him to be removed from the picture, seeing as how he is a split-lipped and insane idiot who is still following a religion that was false right from the very get-go, which involved worshiping a highly advanced alien species that never had anything to do with his species or any of the other races of the Covenant right from the very beginning.

  • Jameson LockeEven though HALO 5: Guardians hasn’t come out yet, I just cannot help but view Jameson Locke and Fireteam Osiris as the secondary bad guys, seeing as how they are being sent by the Office of Naval Intelligence to hunt down the Master Chief and Blue Team (and quite possibly kill them). I blame the marketing department at 343i/Microsoft for not explicitly stating whether or not Jameson Locke is a good guy or a bad guy. They should have done a better job regarding that fact.

So there you have it, true fellow HALO fans. Hopefully, this will alleviate your anxieties in regards to the nature of good/bad in the 343 Industries era of HALO.

Again, please offer your opinions on this matter. Also again, I am looking for feedback from fans who have been with the series since November 15, 2001 only.

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> I don’t like the way that they are injecting the morality of the universe with copious amounts of cold, hard reality, making everything morally grey;

So you mean like the Spartan-II Program as presented in The Fall of Reach…as released on October 30th, 2001?

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> 2533274883011366;1:
> Again, please offer your opinions on this matter. Also again, I am looking for feedback from fans who have been with the series since November 15, 2001 only.

On these forums mate, everybody is a “true” Halo fan who has been here from the start.

I personally think that shifting Halo’s direction into the morally ambiguous side is a better step. It evokes more emotion out of the narrative.

I don’t see how Palmer is a “bad guy” character. I find her annoying as well, considering Spartan Ops didn’t do her any justice, but as far as I can tell she is a morally “good” or true character.

Catherine Halsey is more of a grey character, than “good”. As seen with her work, she is willing to make morale sacrifices for a perceived greater good. Whether or not the insurrection is a force of terrorism or independence remains subjective. Her work did save humanity, but more so as an amazing coincidence. She built super soldiers to mow down human insurrection, not alien genocide.

There is also wild cards like 343 guilty spark still running about, who’s morale standing is highly questionable.

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> 2717573882290912;3:
> > 2533274883011366;1:
> > Again, please offer your opinions on this matter. Also again, I am looking for feedback from fans who have been with the series since November 15, 2001 only.
>
>
> On these forums mate, everybody is a “true” Halo fan who has been here from the start.
>
> I personally think that shifting Halo’s direction into the morally ambiguous side is a better step. It evokes more emotion out of the narrative.
>
> I don’t see how Palmer is a “bad guy” character. I find her annoying as well considering Spartan Ops didn’t do her any justice, but as far as I can tell she is a morally “good” or true character.
>
> Catherine Halsey is more of a grey character, than “good”. As seen with her work, she is willing to make morale sacrifices for a perceived greater good. Whether or not the insurrection is a force of terrorism or independence remains subjective. Her work did save humanity, but more so as an amazing coincidence. She built super soldiers to mow down human insurrection, not alien genocide.
>
> There is also wild cards like 343 guilty spark still running about, who’s morale standing is highly questionable.

I don’t disagree with you, but Halo hasn’t been shifting to a morally ambiguous direction, it’s been there since the beginning.

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> 2533274812652989;4:
> > 2717573882290912;3:
> > > 2533274883011366;1:
> > > Snip
> >
> >
> > On these forums mate, everybody is a “true” Halo fan who has been here from the start.
> >
> > I personally think that shifting Halo’s direction into the morally ambiguous side is a better step. It evokes more emotion out of the narrative.
> >
> > I don’t see how Palmer is a “bad guy” character. I find her annoying as well considering Spartan Ops didn’t do her any justice, but as far as I can tell she is a morally “good” or true character.
> >
> > Catherine Halsey is more of a grey character, than “good”. As seen with her work, she is willing to make morale sacrifices for a perceived greater good. Whether or not the insurrection is a force of terrorism or independence remains subjective. Her work did save humanity, but more so as an amazing coincidence. She built super soldiers to mow down human insurrection, not alien genocide.
> >
> > There is also wild cards like 343 guilty spark still running about, who’s morale standing is highly questionable.
>
>
> I don’t disagree with you, but Halo hasn’t been shifting to a morally ambiguous direction, it’s been there since the beginning.

The shift taking place in the game narratives more so than the novel narratives. Up until reach I would say, the game’s have had pretty straight forward stories that didn’t dive to much into moral ambiguity.

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Eh, the Arbiter’s responsible for almost as many (if not more) deaths of humans as there are currently living on earth today. The fact he helped chief for a game and allied with Johnson for a level really shouldn’t whitewash that.

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> 2717573882290912;5:
> > 2533274812652989;4:
> > > 2717573882290912;3:
> > > > 2533274883011366;1:
> > > > Snip
> > >
> > >
> > > On these forums mate, everybody is a “true” Halo fan who has been here from the start.
> > >
> > > I personally think that shifting Halo’s direction into the morally ambiguous side is a better step. It evokes more emotion out of the narrative.
> > >
> > > I don’t see how Palmer is a “bad guy” character. I find her annoying as well considering Spartan Ops didn’t do her any justice, but as far as I can tell she is a morally “good” or true character.
> > >
> > > Catherine Halsey is more of a grey character, than “good”. As seen with her work, she is willing to make morale sacrifices for a perceived greater good. Whether or not the insurrection is a force of terrorism or independence remains subjective. Her work did save humanity, but more so as an amazing coincidence. She built super soldiers to mow down human insurrection, not alien genocide.
> > >
> > > There is also wild cards like 343 guilty spark still running about, who’s morale standing is highly questionable.
> >
> >
> > I don’t disagree with you, but Halo hasn’t been shifting to a morally ambiguous direction, it’s been there since the beginning.
>
>
> The shift taking place in the game narratives more so than the novel narratives. Up until reach I would say, the game’s have had pretty straight forward stories that didn’t dive to much into moral ambiguity.

Yet the OP isn’t just talking exclusively about the games. Yet even then you’ve got characters like 343 Guilty Spark seemingly being an evil robot, but his logic makes sense given what we know. You’ve got the Arbiter’s arc from bad guy to ally of humanity in Halo 2. ODST’s audio logs also present a pretty bleak story within the story.

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> 2533274812652989;7:
> Yet the OP isn’t just talking exclusively about the games. Yet even then you’ve got characters like 343 Guilty Spark seemingly being an evil robot, but his logic makes sense given what we know. You’ve got the Arbiter’s arc from bad guy to ally of humanity in Halo 2. ODST’s audio logs also present a pretty bleak story within the story.

True the OP makes various references to non game sources, which have contained pretty “grey” content. In this respect ambiguity has been in Halo since its inception, but for awhile this hasn’t been explored to much in the games. The arbiter’s tale in Halo 2 and 3 is completely portrayed as a tale of redemption as opposed to morally ambiguous. No one in-game pointed out how he is probably the single most lethal elite of all time (until Halo 2A terminals). The stories portrayed in-game have always shied away from facing the “gray” zone. Hood stating “I can never forgive you, but I can thank you” demonstrates this. He is shaking hands with the person responsible for the deaths of billions! Halo 3 ODST dived into the “gray” with Sadie’s story showing the civilian side of the invasion, but the main plot seemed more light hearted in comparison. Everyone escapes alive and mission accomplished. From my experiences of the Halo titles moral ambiguity has not been an explored subject until recent years, but everyone’s impression and interpretation is different. It all comes down to opinion.

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#freebengiraud that is all, he’s a pretty cool character, too bad what happened to him.

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Binary morality is a fallacy and the ability to deal with moral ambiguity is a basic adult social skill.
That aside, every character in Halo is believably morally gray while believing themselves to be in the “right”. Including John. The OP’s list is, to put it bluntly, completely based on his own fandom towards spesific characters and has nothing to do with any kind of morality.

“If you aren’t a force for good, then what the hell are you?”
I’ll tell you. A person dealing with a situation to the best of his/her abilites with the knowledge available at the time in order to achieve the outcome you find the most desirable.

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I apologise I can’t interact with anyone in this chat because sadly I wasn’t of age to play or buy Halo and its affiliate material so I’m just a worthless nomad according to OP so enjoy your conversations but serious morally grey is where halo should be going if they didn’t halo wouldn’t progress as a franchise (games wise) from being a bunch of explosions to a real plot also the ambiguity behind Locke was the entire point, same with chief. It’s being built as a cat and mouse chase of course there is misinformation.

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Been a fan of Halo since Halo 2, not quote an OG but close enough and I don’t care what your arbitrary rules on who can and cannot speak are. I won’t censor myself just to make you feel comfortable.

Halo has always, always had a morally grey side too it, even if it wasn’t highlighted as well as it should have been. The Arbiter? Responsible for the deaths of billions of humans, by all rights, one of the worst war criminals in history. That is Bungie era canon. Dr. Halsey? Kidnapped children and forced them through a brutal training and indoctrination process to make a regiment of super soldiers. In no rational world is her actions considered “moral.” Perhaps she did it for moral reasons, but the path to hell is paved with good intentions. Just because Bungie never explored this side of Halo much if at all doesn’t change its importance to narrative or theme.

The Didact: His motivations being that he is a walking Greek tragedy and that he only acts the way he does because he was mind raped by the Gravemind and lost everything he ever knew and love. This doesn’t exactly fit your idea of moral black and white.

Osman: The only thing childish here is your default dismissal of her and her hatred of Halsey. Halsey is the person responsible for her abduction, and she is responsible for causing her to go through the excruciating pain and suffering of the Spartan augmentation procedures, which she failed, so to her, it appears to have been a waste of time. She is then picked up by ONI, given a new life, a new start and healed of her physical deformities caused by the augmentations. Parangosky than groomed her to be an extension of her will, thereby further galvanizing her hatred of the person who put her through all that. And yet, despite that, she opted to not kill Halsey despite what Parangosky advised her to do and kept her around, again despite Halsey having a record for trouble making; whatever she feels about Halsey, she certainly respects her mind and her value.

Furthermore, she is hardly responsible for Jul 'Mdama’s Covenant, and she cannot be held accountable for the Didact or the Prometheans or the Guardians, so no she is not responsible for the state of the universe now. In fact, were it not for her organization, Ben Giraud would have blown the lid off of the Spartan program and incited full scale civil war.

Sarah Palmer: I am quickly becoming convinced that you are a Halsey fanboy/girl, where as soon as someone says anything negative or has a negative opinion of her, you’ll hate that person or character on principle. I love Halsey as a character but Palmer has every right to hate her because that is her prerogative. And as of the most recent stories, Palmer has even had to surrender to Halsey being right for a change, as Halsey has forced her to look inwardly at herself.

Your wish for Palmer to be killed just for disagreeing with you is downright disturbing and says more about your moral stance than it does about Palmer.

Jul 'Mdama is an atheist . He fully understands that the Forerunners were not gods, but he is using the religious zeal of the more radical sects of the Covenant to gather followers against humanity. Why? Because he learned of an ONI contingency plan to poison Sangheilios in case the Elites got uppity. He already distrusted humanity as it is, and the Arbiter, but after the Arbiter’s forces killed his wife and ONI captured him, he has every right to want to get rid of us before we do any more serious damage to his race. He is hardly an idiot when he is shown to be arguably one of the most pragmatic and intelligent Elites we’ve yet seen, being able to manipulated whole armies to his cause, able to outsmart ONI, and is even willing to work with humans despite his hatred of them. He is definitely an antagonist, but he is not evil.

Jameson Locke: Again, if you’re not with us, you’re against us. If you are not on John’s side, you’re against him and are evil.

“So there you have it true Halo fans.” Bull -Yoink-. That is straight No True Scotsman fallacy right there. We are all Halo fans here, that is not in question. But your ideology is disturbingly black and white, to the point of actively ignoring reality–both in real life and in the universe–to justify your own personal narrative. Morally grey stories reflect our own world, they allow us to think more critically about situations and events to come to a better understanding before rash decisions are made. The “with us or against us” narrative is what got the U.S. into the war with the middle east, and I’m sick of this kind of mentality being apart of any sort of discussion.

Because from what I have gathered from this post is that you would apologize for the genocide of billions (Arbiter) and the kidnap and brutalization of children (Halsey) just because they wound up being nice in the end, but will hate a man just doing his job (Locke) simply because his job is in conflict with someone you like (the Chief).

The ability to recognize and navigate the complexities of morally grey situations, the ability to empathize with people you disagree with and may not even like, is a keystone feature of life, it is a requirement for being a mature, rational thinking adult. And in many ways, fiction reflects our abilities to navigate that realm; the best stories make us think about our own world and ourselves. Trying to fit everything in black and white boxes demonstrate a lack of touch with reality; I thought this was a troll at first, and I sincerely hope I was right.

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Moral ambiguity make the most interesting stories. As has been pointed out, Halo has had that since the beginning, the main character is the result of a morally questionable project.

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> 2533274883011366;1:
> - The Librarian
> Considering that she is the one who set everything in motion, she is the reason why John-117 is the way he is today. Plus, despite what has been said, she is still alive somewhere, along with the rest of the Forerunners.

The Librarian is an individual who has based her entire philosophy upon demonstrably failed racial profiling and race ideology, and is trying to implement this to a galaxy currently and historically plagued with racial intolerance through elevating the human race to supremacy - who due to the xenophobia from the human-Covenant war, as well as its own primitive level of social development at this time, is very likely to cause a lot of harm in the long run to itself and others. You think her character is morally unambiguous?

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Serin Osman is not a bad guy. She is just taking over for a bad organisation. Frankly I think Oni has set up a textbook case of Lying through their teeth. Honestly the fact that she is ex spartan means that there is a good chance she will bend the rules to help chief out in times of need, and I wouldn’t be surprised if she does do things under the table (further under the table) to assist chief despite her supposed recent meddling.

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I don’t think I understand how halsey is good if palmer is bad. I mean yeah Palmers an -Yoink- sometimes but halsey has done way more questionable -Yoink- in her time and still considered good.

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> 2533274936927904;11:
> I apologise I can’t interact with anyone in this chat because sadly I wasn’t of age to play or buy Halo and its affiliate material so I’m just a worthless nomad according to OP so enjoy your conversations but serious morally grey is where halo should be going if they didn’t halo wouldn’t progress as a franchise (games wise) from being a bunch of explosions to a real plot also the ambiguity behind Locke was the entire point, same with chief. It’s being built as a cat and mouse chase of course there is misinformation.

In fact the halo universe in 2001 was perfectly white. ONI wore white uniforms, they distributed sweeties and biscuits (oh no, that is Kilo-V) and were described as the quintessential of the ethical and moral person, an example for the rest of the human race.
No. ONI was grey. Now it’s black.
Halsey too was grey and her morality was explored with even a psychological growth of the character during the arc. Then in 343 canon she was discredited, offended, hurt and described with lies and an obtuse prospective.

> 2533274811158328;15:
> Serin Osman is not a bad guy. She is just taking over for a bad organisation. Frankly I think Oni has set up a textbook case of Lying through their teeth. Honestly the fact that she is ex spartan means that there is a good chance she will bend the rules to help chief out in times of need, and I wouldn’t be surprised if she does do things under the table (further under the table) to assist chief despite her supposed recent meddling.

Serin and Margaret are why ONI is bad. Section Three is not bad, it’s just awfully morally grey. But at least they are competent and have a sincere desire to save the human race by all means, not put in act a personal agenda full of evil plans for world domination, like colonising Sanghelios and intentionally screwing Reach with the S-II on it.

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> 2533274835068816;14:
> > 2533274883011366;1:
> > - The Librarian
> > Considering that she is the one who set everything in motion, she is the reason why John-117 is the way he is today. Plus, despite what has been said, she is still alive somewhere, along with the rest of the Forerunners.
>
>
> The Librarian is an individual who has based her entire philosophy upon demonstrably failed racial profiling and race ideology, and is trying to implement this to a galaxy currently and historically plagued with racial intolerance through elevating the human race to supremacy - who due to the xenophobia from the human-Covenant war, as well as its own primitive level of social development at this time, is very likely to cause a lot of harm in the long run to itself and others. You think her character is morally unambiguous?

Should we rather learn from the more developed aliens and start making genocides too? Admit the covenant was less socially developed than us or squash under the overwhelming weight of your incoherence! (lol)
No, sure you won’t: They were multicultural (multiracial?), they accepted every race (yeah, except humans, but they are underdeveloped and heretics, so who cares) and perfectly tolerated each others, never using mass murder and planetary blackmail as a means to keep order.

The tone is just for fun, you know it.

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Only a sith deals in absolutes…

“But the only problem that I have with that is the fact that they are presenting the story in a morally ambiguous tone, and I hate that. I don’t like the way that they are injecting the morality of the universe with copious amounts of cold, hard reality, making everything morally grey; not knowing who is friend and who is foe anymore. I don’t know about the rest of you, but I like to have my morality in check, thank you very much; not having it challenged to the point of it being uncomfortable for me.”

“I mean, if you aren’t a force for good, then what the hell are you?”
Tell me, then: what are YOU? Are you a force for good? Am I a force for good? Cause I’m either a cause for good or a cause for evil, according to you.

If your idea of morality is “A man is good or he is evil” then you’re either Melisandre from Game of Thrones or you have an extremely simplified worldview. If morality was nothing but a choice between good and evil, do you really think there’d be any evil in the world?

Look, for a character to be remotely believable they need strengths and flaws and some traits that are both at the same time.

“but she did it for a greater cause, leading her to be partly responsible for saving humanity, ergo making her one of the good guys.”
Guess what? Most of the villains you listed KNOW what they are doing is for a greater cause. People can do terrible things in the name of what they believe to be greatness; that doesn’t make them automatically good.

“I blame the marketing department at 343i/Microsoft for not explicitly stating whether or not Jameson Locke is a good guy or a bad guy. They should have done a better job regarding that fact.”
So you basically want the marketing to ruin the story for everybody so there’s no intrigue and mystery. You want them to stick a big glowing neon sign on his face reading EVIL just because any attempt at complex characterization it makes you “uncomfortable”.

“I am looking for insight from fans who have been with the series since November 15, 2001 only.”
Okay, I am now CONVINCED this is a troll thread. Nobody can actually be this pretentious and elitist, right?

Cuts the black rot of his ONIon and eats it

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I have one question for you Book so called Worm…How the hell can you comment on the extended universe of Halo, without having read any of it? All I can assume is you called your mother down to your basement and had her write down what you said, and since she probably has to read the replies back to you; Hi bookworm’s mom, your son is an idiot, stop letting him live in your basement.