Golden Triangle was always an Onyx Tetrahedron

Community General Discussion
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The Golden Triangle was always an Onyx Tetrahedron

Many have held on to a belief for over 15 years that Halo is designed around what Bungie calls the “Golden Triangle”; Guns, Grenades and Melees.
Even Bungie was wrong. And it’s why it’s taken 2 games of dual wielding minus fall damage, and 2 games of mobility augmentation to get where Halo5: Guardians is today at its core.

Now, I know, “What did Bungie get wrong?” and “The Golden Triangle was perfect in CE!”
Well, while the designed game that is CE’s MP is a certain kind of perfection, before and after button combos/glitches are considered, the missing component to the Golden Triangle but ALWAYS so important to the meta-game, is indeed MOBILITY!

Mobility always has been and always will be a 4th point to Halo’s gameplay. A point connected to Melee, Grenades and Guns independently and through delta-complimenting.
In CE, fall damage & healthpacks are used to prevent “abuse” of mindless pathfinding (a bit of a hardcore mechanics considering its limited use in all of Halo) but we learned to use grenade and/or crouch jumping for height, Ghost Jumping for climbing and Slide Jumping for extra speed. Even where to grab weapons through barriers (if not grenading them).
Unfortunately, most of these things are very map-location specific in use, use up combat resources (‘nades, health) and require nearly random acts to discover for the “best” places.

In H2, jump height was increased, melees were greatly weakened but gained lunge + damage boosts for jumping or moving forward, health regenerated, vanilla grenades had greatly reduced damage to promote the use with jumps and sword boosting teammates to new heights… Oh what an exploitation of unintentional heights we learned in H2 with the basics from CE.
For the campaign, Easter Eggs were knowingly placed in the weirdest of locations because of the extra layer that mobility gave. However, again, battle resources needed, health and grenades most times. Others, an infinitely charged Energy Sword.

Dual wielding, introduced in H2, removed Melee and Grenades in favour of theoretically creating a CQC multi-munitions super peak on the Weapons point. A line between Mobility and Weapons is maintained but Grenades and Melee all but drop from use. If Mobility wasn’t part of the game, just Weapons exists, a one dimensional point.
With dualing, player must add into their combat movements; tossing aside a weapon to throw a ‘nade and/or melee, to momentarily be on unequal grounds with a player using a 2-handed balanced weapon, within an area they can pick their dropped weapon back up again.

To dual is not to Grenade or Melee because the sandbox design believed (incorrectly) that Weapons would be flexible enough to take on Mobility in Short Range-CQC/B.
Each dual combo has its own strengths in CQB-Short range that work similar to H4’s Fullautos, situational advantage only. But in H2, those combos are nowhere near as versatile as any H4 weapon, least alone a H5G one with SL. Otherwise, an H2BR user with access to Grenades and Melees can exploit every other range-band each dualing combo is weak in.

By online game-life’s end, the Plasma Pistol or Brute PR + M6 were the only “competitive” dualing combos against the button-comboing BR with access to 1 or 2 points on the Triangle. Navigating maps quickly was done so by using grenades and barrel explosions to launch… If not using the Super Jump glitch.

Now there is a bit of a balance story with Vanilla H2 Grenades & Melees with the issue with dualing. Vanilla H2 Grenades are weak and Melees are SUPER weak (minus the uber-Sword). Oh, and the H2BR was a spittle-spreading hoser, not the laser-beam post TU it’s loved for.
Out of the gate, Bungie saw the power issue with dualing vs not. And the complaints were HUGE at release for that balance. For the first major TU, those issues were addressed for 2-handed weapon users BUT dualing was inherently weaker for it.

Golden Triangle Changes CE-H2;
Dualing as was created super weapon point, removes Grenades & Melee.
OG balance was to greatly reduce Grenade & Melee effectiveness for all.
Final balance greatly reduced versatility of most dualing combos.

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For Halo3, both Bungie and MLG began to see Mobility as a 4th point but did not make the connection. The Grav-Lift for Vanilla and Forge Objects for MLG, showed how both were beginning to see that creating meaningful ways to speed up pathfinding without using up combat resources was beneficial to gameplay. There was an increase in nook’n’cranny design into maps to allow for non-combat vertical movement/jumps, no doubt, but map controlled “speed routes” via Forge object placement or Grav-Lift was a big, new thing.
There was something else to Mobility that Vanilla H3’s BMS was designed for, but MLG’s equipment-less, Sangheili avatar-less gameplay needed to overcome with +10% to BMS.
While Grav-Lifts were for getting to new heights the “easy way”, Shield Regenerators and Bubbleshields “forced” the expansion of map cover. Of course, for art-style and/or optimization, it could be said to keep cover to a minimum, Regens and Bubbles were used between the elongated cover/increased volume spaces.
Regardless, MLG’s BMS needed an increase to make up for Vanilla’s designs. By removing equipment, adding in Forge objects and having better momentum due to increased BMS, MLG was able to create a flow that allowed all players to use the battlefield more equally and more fluidly.

Dualing remained and its issues affecting the Golden Triangle were only skewed, not changed. A few dualing combos had limited effectual use while the majority of the time they got in the way of the H3BR’s versatility.

Golden Triangle Changes H2-H3;
Minimal.
Dualing as was created super weapon point, removes Grenades & Melee.
Grenade damage + radius increased from H2. MLG increased base damage by 10%
Melee damage increased to 2-hits for a full health target.

Reach was 3 things.
1, the realization of CE’s original FPS vision (post RTS) with the addition of Spartan Equipment/Abilities. 2, with Spartan Equipment/Abilities, Mobility was very much seen as affecting the metagame. It was no longer a seemingly subtle layer discovered on each map, it was a hard point. Design was no longer focused on the Golden Triangle alone, and let the players discover Mobility. It was for the first time, an entire Onyx Tetrahedron.
3, Vanilla shield popping greatly impacted CQC/B. Removing shields via Weapon, Melee or Grenade was necessary for a non-PW headshot or killing Melee. Combined with Sprint’s lack of checks, greatly impacted CQC’s fluidity.
Perhaps 4, if you count removing dualing and normalizing the combative portions for the sandbox.

Sprint and Jetpack, 2 things always used by Spartans in lore but never in gameplay, finally had their moment to shine. Active Camo and Armour Lock being their antithesis, respectively. Sprint allowed getting to and from combat even quicker than before, while Jetpack removed combat resources for vertical movement completely out of the equation. Active slowed movement for concealment, AL stopped a player completely for invulnerability.
Admittedly, the overall loadout gameplay of Reach, not its use in Invasion, is where something cardinal to Arena within Halo is broken. Loadouts in non-MLG Reach create a starting imbalance and overall flow imbalance.
Not a bad thing if you know how Unreal is played with or without Mutates, but it certainly can be for those wanting the symmetrical start they were accustom to for a decade.
MLG did not see value in loadout starts, but did the equipment in moderation. As Sprint was removed, BMS was increased to make up for losing the periodic burst between zones. Shield popping was removed due to philosophical ideals.

Golden Triangle Changes, H3 – Reach;
Full Tetrahedron.
Removal of dualing normalizes Melee and Grenades against Weapons.
Equipment lessens or augments various points on the Tetrahedron. AL and Regen Bubble can nullify any part of the Triangle. Jetpack and Sprint (and Roll) augment Mobility and the Triangle.

Halo4 is a bit of an odd child. It contains many elements of games previous but changes how they’re used nearly across the board.
Knowing Sprint was the most used in Reach, it was normalized for all, a bit of symmetrical start addition. However asymmetrical Equipment/Abilities start gametypes were still as prominent in H4 as they were in Reach, but now they first had to unlocked to be used. And second, powerweapons were rarely fought over, instead being called in with performance, creating a different form of map control for old for gametypes that use said PW’s.
And on top of that, de-scoping was removed from precision weapons, promoting medium to long range combat over short to medium OG focused.
The options to move around Halo4 were very similar to Reach but the reasons to do so were greatly changed. As such, Jetpack became a very powerful, almost non-option due to having both vertical and horizontal augmentation at the same time. Calling in PW’s made leaving a power position less frequent.

Tetrahedron Changes, Reach – H4;
Sprint normalized on Mobility.
Triangle nullifying Equipment/Abilities removed.

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Now, we are at Halo5. What has Halo5 learned from all the Halo’s previous? While I know the story needs refinement, perhaps not always follow-able, I will roughly recap;
CE’s flow of combat unknowingly discovered over time that Mobility is a 4th pillar to Halo’s combat design of Guns, Grenades and Melee. Symmetrical starts were the only option.

H2’s changes unintentionally created a 2-tier system. Dualing temporarily removed Grenades and Melee in favour of short ranged Weapons. Original balance was to have very weak Grenades and Melee, as well as weak single-handed weapons. Increasing effectiveness of Grenades and Melee benefited non-dualing weapons more than the entire sandbox.

H3 kept H2’s 2-tier system by not removing dualing, but it did mix up Mobility and pathfinding with Equipment. Balance was to have a solid utility weapon tie or beat a single handed weapon, which when combined with Mobility, quickly trumped the lack of Grenades and Melee.

Reach brought us back to CE-like, non-dualing balance and integrated Equipment into Abilities. Abilities could greatly diminish, even nullify Triangle points and asymmetrical starts and spawning. Shield Popping lessened Melee’s flexibility but did not nullify it like Armour Lock. However, loadouts created asymmetrical starting and very abruptly combat flow changes via changes between spawns in Arena gametypes.

Halo4 eliminated nullifying Abilities but not only kept asymmetrical starts/spawns, and they all but removed powerweapon control. De-scoping was removed in favour of range weapon favouring Flinch. Where Halo3 pulled combat closer, Reach allowed it to land farther, H4 pushed combat farther.

Now for Halo5:
Much feedback has been considered on overall design, addressing mainly Sprints impact on engagement encounters and negative impacts of elongating horizontal play area over using intricate connections between vertical levels (CE design features), in an effort to finally incorporate Mobility in a cohesive manner to early Halo combat ideals and discovery.

Symmetrical Starts/Spawns in core Arena gametypes. Predictability on available resources.

Symmetrical abilities allow mimicry of Halo’s previous Melee and Mobility options such as Ghost or Slide Jumping, Grenade Jumping, etc, but on an-everyone-same and active design level.

The Golder Triangle is normalized due to every weapon having a Smart-Link function (firemode, be it range, damage, lock-on, etc) and having, at the moment, zero dualing options. Animations clearly indicate to players when a user is SL or not. SL helps Fullautos with issues on cover being too far due to Mobility, and Melees to have more situational advantage in deciding how and when to switch weapons due to the environment.

All abilities can be said to revolve around Thruster, as they activate in visual cue to help show players that indeed, a player has achieved full sprint, hover, etc. Combat resources can be used to augment H5G Spartan Abilities.

Sprint is a check to prevent Slide and Spartan Charge from being spammed. You cannot enter sprint if being damaged (versus Reach’s insta-on), but you will not be slowed by most weapon damage once you achieve full sprint (versus H4’s slowdown). Due to feedback on escaping or engaging too quickly post encounter, shields must begin to regenerate before attempting fight or flight. Otherwise, it’s a great risk to reset the recharge timer.

Slide and Spartan Charge’s main use is to allow a Thruster charge free for Mobility or defense against hitscan weaponry. Sliding with an M6 is a near insta-draw to fire. A player can Slide or Thruster + Melee instead of Spartan Charging for same effect.

In addition to its main manual use, Thruster allows everyone to Hover or Ground Pound. Both of which can be used to Grenade Jump with, or with a main charge+crouching to grab seemingly out of reach ledges, in addition to delaying a landing to prevent a splatter, grenade, etc.

Clamber & Crouch Jumping exist together. In regular, intentional combat paths, either-or can be used to gain vertical ground, but CJ’ing would be done with perfect timing and save valuable time. A clambering target is a climbing duck and wastes valuable half-seconds getting to, or from combat. In situations of discovery, Clamber & CJ can be used after a GJ to gain new heights. This reflects MLG’s use of Forge objects in H3 on, on developer maps, to promote fluidity where asymmetry allows, but as a symmetrical layer.
2 metagame additions were discovered thanks to being able to time a Slide post Thruster, if at full Sprint.

A patched addition was using perfect timing to slide on ramps. This greatly increased a player’s movement and allowed them to slingshot across Arena maps very fast.

A kept addition is often referred to as Pyramid Jumping. It involves Thrustering off of angles from a full Sprint to launch in various ways. Against walls, it will launch players vertically, creating their own Spartan Lift. Against the corners of anything, even Spartan avatar heads, it will launch the player with the combined speed of the Thruster at Sprint.

So that’s it. I know it was likely hard to follow, but it had to put down somewhere :slight_smile:

In conclusion; Golden Triangle was always an Onyx Tetrahedron

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I like this word,Tetrahedron,sounds like a big prehistoric Mammal.
So assuming from the size of your post you put in a lot of effort and time,so just for the sake of sience what kind of reactions do you await?

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Tetrahedron for those wondering.

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Wow, I never realized that on the Halo games, good information!

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Great analysis of the evolution of Halo’s gameplay mechanics and their implications. Insightful, and I learned quite a bit of information.

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Arguing that mobility was a 4th part to the golden triangle in the early games is a stretch. Sure, there were trick jumps and grenade jumps, like you pointed out. But being that they were so situational, you can’t really call them an integral part of the overall sandbox. And then with the inclusion of equipment in Halo 3 that are geared toward map traversal, we are once again seeing something that is entirely situational and makes use of expendable items. You can’t claim that something is a cornerstone of the formula while also acknowledging that it requires the player to not only be in certain locations, but to also have the right amount and type of expendable game pieces.

In the recent Halo games, mobility is definitely being forced in as one of the main pillars to the sandbox, and it completely breaks the “Halo” feel. I see no validity to your argument that mobility was always one of these pillars due to how limited movement was in the vast majority of situations/locations.

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its clearly a rhombus of terror.

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> 2533274847880910;7:
> Great analysis of the evolution of Halo’s gameplay mechanics and their implications. Insightful, and I learned quite a bit of information.

same

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> 2603643534597848;3:
> <mark>Mod edit: Nuked quote, don’t really need to quote the entire post :slight_smile:</mark>

holy -Yoink-, that’s was a lot of effort and very insightful, thank you, and from what I have seen mentioned in your post and from experience, h5 has the best balanced multiplayer, the movement is amazing, the guns are well balanced, but I feel the splinter grenade needs a slight nerd. Any way, I think you need a medal for longest OP on waypoint

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Now, if I could only get a good reason as to why we should call any set of distinct mechanics we assign special significance to a “[mineral] [simplex]” instead of appreciating the merits of the individual mechanics themselves. This whole simplex thing to me implies that there’s some interaction between this particular set of mechanics compared to all other mechanics that’s so special that we feel the need to raise it on a pedestal, and talk about these mechanics like they are connected on some fundamental level instead of, you know, just treating them as a set of basic mechanics that they are. I’ve never seen the appeal of implying some special connection between weapons and melee, or melee and grenades, or grenades and weapons. To me these things have always just been individual mechanics that form part of the basic abilities the player has.

If talking about the “[mineral] [simplex]” were to ever be of any use, we would all have to be able to agree on what that special interaction between these mechanics. Or else the whole “X broke (or didn’t break) the ‘[mineral] [simplex]’” where this concept most often comes up is completely meaningless when we don’t even know what it is about the simplex exactly that was broken. Certainly, no one can agree on what exactly the real meaning of the golden triangle is. In my attempts of trying to get people explain it to me, I’ve yet to run into an explanation that would’ve made me go “hmm, this seems like a useful definition”.

One of the main problems I have with defining the “[mineral] [simplex]” is the ever present ambiguity. Ignoring the fact that I have never gotten a satisficatory explanation on why we need to attach any more connection between these mechanics than that they form the basic set of things the player can do, it seems very arbitrary to me how many and what elements this set contains. The “golden triangle” contains melee, grenades, and weapons, but for some reason doesn’t contain movement which—I can agree with the thesis of the OP—is an integral part (perhaps the integral part, as far as I’m concerned) of Halo gameplay. This “onyx tetrahedron”, on the other hand, contains movement, but this raises the question: why do we consider weapons and grenades as separate entities, but not, say, running and jumping and Spartan Abilities? Or different weapons, for that matter? It all seems really arbitrary to me.

And that is why I like to talk about the basic set (of mechanics). It’s not as fancy sounding, but it’s simple. It contains the basic actions the player can do: shooting, running, jumping, throwing grenades (and later all the Spartan Abilities). It doesn’t assume any special connections between any of these mechanics. You have to build those yourself. This may not be as convenient for making vague arbitrary claims that no one who doesn’t share your mindset understands, but that’s precisely why I like it: you can’t make vague arbitrary claims. The set cannot be “broken”; it can only have elements removed from it, or added to it. You need to be able to argue why the removal or addition of these elements is beneficial or detrimental.

> Any way, I think you need a medal for longest OP on waypoint

My population analysis doesn’t count because it’s in a separate PDF, right? Not fair. :wink:

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The discussion of the changes made to Halo 5 has convinced me as nothing else ever could have that this set of motion mechanics is both too many and too complex. I never thought I’d say it, but there it is. Neverminding where they evolved from, their legitimacy vis a vis classic Halo, or whether or not they make the game more competitive… we shouldn’t be a year into a game and have “everyday” players such as myself only now learning how half these things really work. Too. Bloody. Complicated.

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> 2533274825830455;12:
>

I can actually address a couple concerns while also restating, it’s but a rough way to actually get help ironing out my own thoughts :slight_smile:

What is the Golden Triangle specifically?
A) Infinite Ammo Melee. Extreme short range. High Damage. Insta-kill to the back (awareness bonus).
B) Limited Ammo Guns. Spawning weapons intended to be used with A + C to combat power weapons and positions.
C) Very Limited Ammo Grenades. Medium range, high damage.

The idea is that when you spawn, you have the resources to make a kill, if you’re skilled enough… But what is this skilled enough? What does it mean? From my PoV, it means you know how to use Mobility with A, B and C to take away an opponent’s powerweapon and/or position. You have to be able to move around the map, then avoid damage while inflicting it.

Melees to the back are insta-kill.
Melees or Grenade explosions plus headshots are insta-kills.
Being able to use those to beat a Shotgun, Sniper, Rocks or Sword generally requires very skilled use of Mobility for position and/or strafing (and ducking).

Mobility is a point connect to each point on the Triangle. Meaning, everything can be used together, forced multiplied, for use. You can use mobility to enhance a grenade throw for a splash headshot.

Now, what is the difference between “Shooting, Running, Jumping, Throwing grenades” and "Mobility, Guns, Grenades and Melees.?
Depends on the game.
But specifically to Halo, Shooting while Running is something we only do when attacking with advantage, or Leeroy intentions.
Something that falls into Mobility but outside of Running is Strafing. I’d dare say, the majority of intelligent head-on engagements are Strafing + Shooting much more than Running + Shooting.
If we’re Running + Shooting, it’s because we have the advantage to do so, or are running a form of distraction.

Further, how do Guns, Grenades and Melees work with heavy or powerweapons?
Well… On the extreme levels.

Hammer: Removes Guns. Slightly enhances Melee range. Greatly increases Melee power to vehicular damaging levels, with AoE splash. Can be used with Mobility and/or Grenades.
Hammer is an enhanced Melee point that slides moderately towards Grenades

Rockets: Greatly reduces Guns’ RoF but increases its range, damage against vehicles and AoE splash. Can be used with Mobility, sparingly with Melee and/or Grenades.
Rockets is an enhanced Gun point that slides heavily towards Grenades

Sword: Removes Guns. Greatly enhances Melee range. Greatly increases Melee power to infantry. Can be used with Mobility and/or Grenades. Pulls user to target.
Sword is an enhanced damage Melee point that slides about 1/3-midway to Guns.

Shotgun: Greatly diminishes Guns’ range but increases Guns’ power to a 1SK. Can be used with Mobility, and/or Grenades and/or moderately with Melee.
Shotgun is an enhanced damage Guns point that slides about midway-2/3’s to Melee.

Sniper: Enhanced damage + range Guns. Can be used with Mobility, and/or Melee and/or Grenades.

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This was intense, but I appreciate it.

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> 2533274873843883;13:
> The discussion of the changes made to Halo 5 has convinced me as nothing else ever could have that this set of motion mechanics is both too many and too complex. I never thought I’d say it, but there it is. Neverminding where they evolved from, their legitimacy vis a vis classic Halo, or whether or not they make the game more competitive… we shouldn’t be a year into a game and have “everyday” players such as myself only now learning how half these things really work. Too. Bloody. Complicated.

But it’s not really. Learning to use all the mechanics to your advantage at a high level may be complex, though really it just takes work and the desire to learn. The game literally teaches you these things through the Campaign. And even not playing campaign it shouldn’t take long at all to get used to what you can do and how you can use it.

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I understand the shape changing, but why the color?

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> 2533274817408735;17:
> I understand the shape changing, but why the color?

Gold is shiny and malleable. It maybe idolized for its shininess and near inability to tarnish, but its value in its malleability and conductivity.

The Golden Triangle is beautiful when used more for describing how flexible and conductive the sandbox is intended to be between Guns, Grenades and Melee, not that is is indeed shiny simply because it exits.

Onyx, is formed of bands of quartz (silicon–oxygen tetrahedra) & moganite (silicon-dioxide) in variable & alternating colours depending on lighting and PoV, is 7mohs on the hardness scale, ancient Romans entered battle carrying amulets of sardonyx (red onyx) engraved with their god of war, Mars, black Onyx is Arena’s highest ranking (Champ is top 200, period.)

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> 2603643534597848;18:
> > 2533274817408735;17:
> > I understand the shape changing, but why the color?
>
> Gold is shiny and malleable. It maybe idolized for its shininess and near inability to tarnish, but its value in its malleability and conductivity.
>
> The Golden Triangle is beautiful when used more for describing how flexible and conductive the sandbox is intended to be between Guns, Grenades and Melee, not that is is indeed shiny simply because it exits.
>
> Onyx, is formed of bands of quartz (silicon–oxygen tetrahedra) & moganite (silicon-dioxide) in variable & alternating colours depending on lighting and PoV, is 7mohs on the hardness scale, ancient Romans entered battle carrying amulets of sardonyx (red onyx) engraved with their god of war, Mars, black Onyx is Arena’s highest ranking (Champ is top 200, period.)

I never knew that about Onyx, it makes more sense why they chose that word. Due to the whole roman and greek that has been brought to this game.

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> 2603643534597848;18:
> > 2533274817408735;17:
> > I understand the shape changing, but why the color?
>
> Gold is shiny and malleable. It maybe idolized for its shininess and near inability to tarnish, but its value in its malleability and conductivity.
>
> The Golden Triangle is beautiful when used more for describing how flexible and conductive the sandbox is intended to be between Guns, Grenades and Melee, not that is is indeed shiny simply because it exits.
>
> Onyx, is formed of bands of quartz (silicon–oxygen tetrahedra) & moganite (silicon-dioxide) in variable & alternating colours depending on lighting and PoV, is 7mohs on the hardness scale, ancient Romans entered battle carrying amulets of sardonyx (red onyx) engraved with their god of war, Mars, black Onyx is Arena’s highest ranking (Champ is top 200, period.)

Gosh darn materials scientists.
>:(