Go away stop apologizing for 343 I don't give a crap

Games Halo Infinite
21

I think the key takeaway here is we can all agree the map design is lacking in many areas.

22

No your argument is that Live Fire is a bad map because it has a dominant position, what I (and others) are saying is that there is pretty much always a method to break the setup, and that tons of Halo maps in the past have had dominant positions (Lockout and Guardian being obvious examples) and people still loved them.

Pro play is helpful because it sort of elucidates what the best strategies are and can give some really useful pointers to improve your own play. I already learned quite a few things from watching Lucid melt folks lol.

Infinite has great Oddball maps, it has awful Slayer/CTF maps arguably. Bazaar is just boring for either as a good example, but I would argue that Infinite has best Oddball maps in Halo history.

Edit: Also idk why we keep giving bad maps like Launch site a pass, the map is literally only used for like 1 gametype and yet nobody is trashing it for being a waste of time.

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23

“…allows players to camp with objectives and power weapons. This one single feature completely makes this entire map not fun to play.”

  • Camping
  • Not fun

Those were my arguments. Lockout doesn’t let people just camp, even at the top, because it’s got fusion coils and it shootable from the opposite tower. Shotgun hole has two opposite exits, hard to lock down vs grenades. Neither this map nor Guardian that has similar design features are UNFUN because of these areas and players don’t typically camp for long, even with oddball.

Firing Range tower has a huge drop off to the left and very minor sight lines, not to mention the entire back wall to hide behind when people are grenading. You can’t even see the tower on the right side unless you’re over by where the BR spawns on that bride ramp. Attacking from the front is extremely narrow too and they can again just run behind where the stairs are.

The tower is similar to the tower on ascension but there’s still a difference here, being the stairs are open on Ascension leaving very little camping room. The problem Firing Range faces comes when attacking the point as high ground will always favor defenders. Are there ways around it? Yes. That wasn’t my point though. My point is that it’s not fun.

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24

343 doesn’t understand Halo sight lines and isn’t good at making Halo maps period

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25

That’s why when I play on MCC and H2A I get really sad with all the forge made maps, instead of them recreating the maps themselves. Love H2A, hate the map selection.

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26

Let me sum this up nicely for everyone:

we’ve already argued this enough I feel, you are using your own personal opinion of a map (with no real evidence) to bash the map/game, its ok to hate any of the maps, but just because you don’t personally enjoy a map doesn’t mean its fundamentally flawed. There are tons of maps I hate personally but I wouldn’t go as far as to say they are poorly designed. This is a waste of our time debating this with someone that won’t listen as it is a waste of time for 343i because they won’t find anything constructive or useful here.

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27

I guess just ignore everything I say then. Didn’t even bother to read why I thought it was unfun did you? Hint: It’s in the same comment.

Also you don’t have to be here man. If this is wasting your time then go on and git. I’ve given plenty of reasons why this tower isn’t a good design but you’re just choosing to ignore it for the sake of the argument and using GSRRM to plea to the public to ridicule me because you don’t like my reasons.

28

“if you wanna talk about a horrid comp map Behemoth is far far worse as it takes like 8 dead to pull a freaking flag and its extremely campy.”

I guess you don’t take your own medicine, huh?

“…waste of time for 343i” Don’t pretend you speak or care about them. We both know you’re only bringing them up to rally and shame.

29

There’s repulser jumping up there too. Almost always wipes the tower because of the sheer surprise lol

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30

Is Behemoth/Launch Site even in competitive play (tournaments, regionals, etc.)?

No. Again, you trashing Live Fire doesn’t mean much as the problems you mention don’t show up in comp play. I know what you are going to say “I don’t sweat and blah blah blah” but Behemoth can spawn Fing Scorpions on it… and you are worried about Live Fire? please.

Take the L on this one dude, Infinite has lots of real problems that need to be sorted out, this is just a waste of time as even if somehow the tower was removed people that liked the map before would be outraged (and -Yoink!- if you do and -Yoink!- if you don’t situation) so I’d rather just try to change something that actually does something.

31

Original Post: Click at your own discretion

Summary

Did I ever state anything about competitive? You seem to care more about winning this argument than actually giving feedback about the game. You’re too much of a liar to talk to seriously.

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32

you can counter it via flanking, repulser jumping, spamming nade, taking it with cloak or Over shield, it is a good sightline yes but easily countered.

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33

Really, are you an authority on map design? Because your original post doesn’t only say you dislike it, but that it’s also

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34

Obviously I’m not but I’ve listed the reasons I think this is lacking proper function. The point was to give feedback, not attract a bunch of trolls and 343 apologists.

35

If you are giving critiques and aren’t an authority don’t turn around and tell off someone else for doing the same.

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36

Original Post: Click at your own discretion

Summary

Clearly you can’t read because I was talking about having authority for offering advice where none was asked for. Anybody can form opinions on mechanics and design philosophy. You’re simply siding with the guy using dishonest tactics because he speaks your language.

37

I’m actually very fond of most maps they’ve released so far. Only on ranked behemoth and bazaar really seem to suffer from the BR starts making a big portion of those maps dead zones.

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38

I wouldn’t even say Bazaar, at higher levels of play all the map does it discourage playing in Mid as its open and easy to 4 shot from either balcony or Stairs. However getting a good push in CTF through Mid Doors is vastly satisfying. Bazaar is a fine CTF Map, and an okay Slayer Map. Oddball and Strongholds would both be awful however. Behemoth needs to exit the Ranked Map Pool however. CTF on those maps just becomes a game of who can sit behind rocks better. Fun little social map, but not a map I would want to play at a Tournament.

39

CE had chillout, battle creek, and hang em high. So I feel like that one also deserves a mention.

40

Halo CE has no shortage of ICONIC and Memorable maps. However as far as map design goes, they are all symmetric maps(By Design). While it works for some of the maps (Battle Creek is a top 10 Halo Map of All Time) The design philosophy for CE was outdated by the time Halo 2 came out, and is why we only ever really saw pseudo-symmetric maps after that. Halo 2 I would say has the strongest map pool of any Halo game, and has the best designed maps across the board, from the small maps like Lockout and Ascension, to the biggest maps like Waterworks and Containment. Halo 3 was not much worse, but I think suffered from the eventual remake spree that started during its Post Launch Content, as most of the remakes played worse than their Halo 2 counterparts(Blackout I’m looking at you). Halo Reach is arguably some of the worst map design in the franchise, as well some maps are memorable or even fan favorites, the design philosophy was lazy, and most often led to best playing maps being forge remakes. Halo 4 is not much different, however I will say Big Team Battle maps were amazing in Halo 4 and I’d say were some of the best (Exile being my personal favorite BTB map in the franchise). The small maps in Halo 4 though were mostly a let down and I could only probably tell you 1 or 2 by name with out looking it up, and Halo 4 was a game I played religiously until MCC came out. Halo 5 has the worst map selection in the franchise, both aesthetically and design wise. Most of the maps just felt boring and too vertical(fits Halo 5’s gameplay).

TLDR: Halo CE good. Halo 2 BEST, Halo 3 Great, Halo Reach Bad, Halo 4 Also Bad but BTB fun, Halo 5 worst.

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