Glasslands complaints...

So I finished reading Chapters 1 and 2 a little while ago, I can honestly say I’m not overly excited for this novel.

Firstly, we’ve got a canonical problem here.

> PRIVATE QUARTERS OF FORMER SHIPMASTER JUL 'MDAMA, BEKAN KEEP, MDAMA, SANGHELIOS: JANUARY 26, 2553 IN THE HUMAN CALENDAR.
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> …
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> “I don’t have time for this,” Jul said. “I have to go to the kaidon’s assembly. The Arbiter’s going to be here soon.

I was under the impression that the Arbiter returned to Sanghelios on March 3rd, 2553, after attending the memorial service on Earth. Rtas says that he wants to see Sanghelios, this implies that neither of them have seen their home planet for a while.

So how can Thel be on Sanghelios in January? That doesn’t really make sense.

Now I’ve heard the argument that Thel landed on Earth and went back to Sanghelios and then back to Earth for the memorial service and then back to Sanghelios… No.

For Thel to have gone back to Earth, he’d have had to go on the Shadow of Intent, that was the only Sangheili ship at Earth during the memorial service. Rtas says he wants to see Sanghelios again to know that it’s safe, so what has he been doing in 2 months then? As Ship Master, Rtas would’ve picked up Thel from Sanghelios and taken him to Earth, yet Thel escaping from the wreckage of the Dawn on Earth and the memorial service happen in a very close time-frame as we can see from the juxtaposed flashback at the end of Halo 3, so he can’t have gone back there.

So the book is flawed…

My other complaint is the story itself. Thel and Lord Hood want to sign a peace treaty to ensure that there are peaceful relations between humanity and the Sangheili, and yet, Parangosky & ONI are quite content with causing MORE war and committing espionage against the Sangheili. So they’re provoking a race that could be their potential and valuable ally… Okay…

And then there’s Halsey. I’m sorry but it just seems like Traviss doesn’t quite understand her, we’re seeing a completely different character here from what Nylund portrayed in TFOR, FS and GoO. And the worst part of it? It’s all for the sake of drama because there’s not much going on in the Dyson Sphere. Halsey doesn’t really have any need or motivation to be resentful towards Mendez, she was on perfectly good terms with him in GoO when she knew he was involved in the S-III Project. Why has this suddenly changed? She’s basically being demonised for no real reason.

I don’t know… I’m not all that excited to be honest.

I can understand ONI backing the other side only because some Elits don’t like the plans that Thel is doing with the humans…I also like how he pointed out that they never actually won against us either. So it’s interesting and understandable, but the delivery of ONI’s plans seem poorly done so far.

Well, think for a moment. The final level of Halo 3, “Halo”, took place in November of 2552. The final cutscene (not including after the credits stuff) was in March of 2553. That’s 4 months for things to happen, including starting a Sanghelie insurrection.

I won’t deny that “January 2553” got me at first, but when you think about it, the book doesn’t yet break canon. It’s possible that, after getting to Earth, the Arbiter went to Sanghelios, then came back for the memorial service. Rtas wanting to know Sanghelios is safe could be referring to the insurrection ONI is trying to incite.

We’ve only seen 2 chapters, not much to go on just yet.

EDIT: Regarding the tension between Halsey and Mendez: There has always been tension between them, since the S-II program, and for Halsey to find Mendez working on a project based on her work and not being told is, to her, a betrayal. In GoO, she encounters Mendez and the S-IIIs in the middle of combat, not exactly the best area to start discussing and possible grips or issues either may have with each other.

I really liked it so far. ONI works independently of UNSC and has its own clear agenda. They remind me of Cerberus in Mass Effect a pro- human group. They’re trying to weaken possible future enemies so humans can be the dominant player in the galaxy

Alex, please, use some rationality.
Everything will be canonical and explained. It is 343 industries.
Maybe it will tie up with the halo 3 cutscene. have patience and trust. Do not jump at every little thing that will be exaplained.

Really? The book hasn’t been released yet, and you’re complaining about it already… And you’re basing your thoughts about the book based on a small error in date? In the first two chapters, maybe it’s just that, AN ERROR, maybe it’s a goof that wasn’t caught until now. OR, the dates in the book are right, and the source where you got your dates from are wrong or best guess.

I don’t like it so far, but I haven’t read the entire book, so I’ll reserve judgement until it’s released.

> Really? The book hasn’t been released yet, and you’re complaining about it already… And you’re basing your thoughts about the book based on a small error in date? In the first two chapters, maybe it’s just that, AN ERROR, maybe it’s a goof that wasn’t caught until now. OR, the dates in the book are right, and the source where you got your dates from are wrong or best guess.

Ajw34307 is more than welcome to voice his concerns. They may be the first two chapters, but some things are off. My biggest issue is that apparently there are friendly Brutes towards the Elites. That’s a pretty big red flag when we know full well that goes against Elites-Brute relations.

That said, I do disagree with his interpretation of Halsey. She does seem a touch uneasy about the S-IIIs, but I can see why, they were after all made in secret and she was not informed. They were also made by Ackerson, and both Halsey and him had very bitter feelings towards each other.

> My biggest issue is that apparently there are friendly Brutes towards the Elites. That’s a pretty big red flag when we know full well that goes against Elites-Brute relations.

This x1000.

When I read that line I could literally feel the massive wall torn open in canon. So the Elites are totally ok with the Brutes acting as the Prophet’s hammer during the Great Schism, not to mention wholesale slaughter of plenty of their political leaders during the opening battles? I’ve tried my best and CANNOT find ANY reasoning for that. The Kig-Yar/Jackels - yeah, ok, they’re profiteers and bandits after all, and a colony of them even traded with the Humans at one point in the book the Cole Protocol. But Elites and Brutes? Side by side? I’m really surprised that more Elites want to finish off the Humans rather than go after the more immediate threat and wipe out the Brutes for their treachery.

Edit: Actually, a major thought just occurred to me. Why the hell is ONI fostering anti-Human sentiment in the Sangheilli population at a time when Humanity as a whole has been severely weakened by the war? If ONI really wanted to leave the Elites weak and allow Humanity to ascend to the top in the galaxy, they should be fostering anti-Brute sentiment in the Elite population, leaving both sides to duke it out while Humanity recovers and eventually steps in to clean up the mess.

And I just thought of all that in 5 seconds. This book makes no sense.

> > My biggest issue is that apparently there are friendly Brutes towards the Elites. That’s a pretty big red flag when we know full well that goes against Elites-Brute relations.
>
> This x1000.
>
> When I read that line I could literally feel the massive wall torn open in canon. So the Elites are totally ok with the Brutes acting as the Prophet’s hammer during the Great Schism, not to mention wholesale slaughter of plenty of their political leaders during the opening battles? I’ve tried my best and CANNOT find ANY reasoning for that. The Kig-Yar/Jackels - yeah, ok, they’re profiteers and bandits after all, and a colony of them even traded with the Humans at one point in the book the Cole Protocol. But Elites and Brutes? Side by side? I’m really surprised that more Elites want to finish off the Humans rather than go after the more immediate threat and wipe out the Brutes for their treachery.
>
>
>
> Edit: Actually, a major thought just occurred to me. Why the hell is ONI fostering anti-Human sentiment in the Sangheilli population at a time when Humanity as a whole has been severely weakened by the war? If ONI really wanted to leave the Elites weak and allow Humanity to ascend to the top in the galaxy, they should be fostering anti-Brute sentiment in the Elite population, leaving both sides to duke it out while Humanity recovers and eventually steps in to clean up the mess.
>
> And I just thought of all that in 5 seconds. This book makes no sense.

Yeah, that’s what I figured. It would be better for humanity to still encourage the schism between both sides. It looks like they do continue the war against the Brutes as seen in the Return. So ONI may change priorities and get everyone to hate the Brutes instead of each other.

> > My biggest issue is that apparently there are friendly Brutes towards the Elites. That’s a pretty big red flag when we know full well that goes against Elites-Brute relations.
>
> This x1000.
>
> When I read that line I could literally feel the massive wall torn open in canon. So the Elites are totally ok with the Brutes acting as the Prophet’s hammer during the Great Schism, not to mention wholesale slaughter of plenty of their political leaders during the opening battles? I’ve tried my best and CANNOT find ANY reasoning for that. The Kig-Yar/Jackels - yeah, ok, they’re profiteers and bandits after all, and a colony of them even traded with the Humans at one point in the book the Cole Protocol. But Elites and Brutes? Side by side? I’m really surprised that more Elites want to finish off the Humans rather than go after the more immediate threat and wipe out the Brutes for their treachery.
>
>
>
> Edit: Actually, a major thought just occurred to me. Why the hell is ONI fostering anti-Human sentiment in the Sangheilli population at a time when Humanity as a whole has been severely weakened by the war? If ONI really wanted to leave the Elites weak and allow Humanity to ascend to the top in the galaxy, they should be fostering anti-Brute sentiment in the Elite population, leaving both sides to duke it out while Humanity recovers and eventually steps in to clean up the mess.
>
> And I just thought of all that in 5 seconds. This book makes no sense.

They’re fostering anti-Arbiter sentiment, not anti-human.

> > > My biggest issue is that apparently there are friendly Brutes towards the Elites. That’s a pretty big red flag when we know full well that goes against Elites-Brute relations.
> >
> > This x1000.
> >
> > When I read that line I could literally feel the massive wall torn open in canon. So the Elites are totally ok with the Brutes acting as the Prophet’s hammer during the Great Schism, not to mention wholesale slaughter of plenty of their political leaders during the opening battles? I’ve tried my best and CANNOT find ANY reasoning for that. The Kig-Yar/Jackels - yeah, ok, they’re profiteers and bandits after all, and a colony of them even traded with the Humans at one point in the book the Cole Protocol. But Elites and Brutes? Side by side? I’m really surprised that more Elites want to finish off the Humans rather than go after the more immediate threat and wipe out the Brutes for their treachery.
> >
> >
> >
> > Edit: Actually, a major thought just occurred to me. Why the hell is ONI fostering anti-Human sentiment in the Sangheilli population at a time when Humanity as a whole has been severely weakened by the war? If ONI really wanted to leave the Elites weak and allow Humanity to ascend to the top in the galaxy, they should be fostering anti-Brute sentiment in the Elite population, leaving both sides to duke it out while Humanity recovers and eventually steps in to clean up the mess.
> >
> > And I just thought of all that in 5 seconds. This book makes no sense.
>
> They’re fostering anti-Arbiter sentiment, not anti-human.

That’s pretty much the same thing, considering that the Arbiter seems to be the only major political leader who has some sway and also wants to make a peace treaty with the Humans. Arming dissidents to assassinate or wipe out his power bloc and supporters is stupid.

Wait, so in a deep corner of space, where nothing happens and nobody interferes, it’s okay for jackals and humans to get along… but if there were a similar scenario, brutes and elites couldn’t get along? This is just a taste, we have no real grasp on what’s happening yet.

Don’t get so freaked out over nothing. This is quite silly. Speculation is fine, but getting overly upset over something that we don’t even understand yet is ridiculous.

So far I don’t like were the story is going. But I’ll give it a chance once the book comes out.

> Wait, so in a deep corner of space, where nothing happens and nobody interferes, it’s okay for jackals and humans to get along… but if there were a similar scenario, brutes and elites couldn’t get along? This is just a taste, we have no real grasp on what’s happening yet.
>
> Don’t get so freaked out over nothing. This is quite silly. Speculation is fine, but getting overly upset over something that we don’t even understand yet is ridiculous.

Kig-Yar/Jackels can sell out anyone just as long as you give them enough money. They’re born pirates with no real loyalty to anyone besides themselves. Sangheili/Elites have an honor system. If they’re betrayed they don’t take it lightly. And considering how much more personal the Great Schism was between the Elites and Brutes when compared to the overall Human-Covenant war…yeah, I kind of figured after internal disputes were resolved, the Elites would send out the remnants of their armadas and finish off the Brutes.

I don’t like what I have seen so far. It is dour, depressive and a bit uninspiring. I actually do not feel as if I want to find out what happens next.

What is ONI doing? They are plotting to have Thel 'Vadam killed, the one who is by the sounds of things the only person standing between the Sangheili and the genocide of Humanity. They are plotting to arm the Sangheili dissidents and cause further catastrophe within the Sangheili society. Who are they doing these extremely dangerous dealings with? A religious theocratic fascist who does not seem to particularly like Humans, and who believes that the Sangheili have divine connection to the Forerunners (Something that rightly belongs to Humanity, which he would view as competition) and that, due to believing the old Sangheili beliefs, they should either respect Forerunner technology or inherit it themselves. That is against Humanity’s birthright. Why would 'Telcam not wish for Humanity to be wiped from the face of the galaxy due to their competition?

From that, the unrealistic stupidity of ONI becomes apparent. 'Telcam could kill two birds with one stone here. He could spill the beans on the whole plot, rally the Sangheili to destroy Humanity. After this, Thel’s faction would be weakened enough for him to strike. The end result is the elimination of the only competition facing him. Has ONI really not considered this? Also, Lord Hood wants a peace treaty as does the rest of Humanity from the sounds of things. However, ONI is willing to throw everything away for a half-chance to destroy a potentially powerful ally by conspiring with a capriciously untrustworthy religious zealot? Regardless of whether Humanity wants peace, the Sangheili will not see that fact if they find out about ONI. So ONI are prepared to throw away everything Humanity hopes for based on nothing almost.

And as for the Sangheili? Why is there still this dour, universal blind hatred of Humans that shows no sign of weakening? What reasons do they still have to maintain these irrational beliefs if, as we are told, the ones following Thel 'Vadam have rejected not just the teachings of the Prophets but the Forerunners as Gods too? They are still viewing Humans as completely inferior, as vermin worthy of nothing but a horrible death; as liars (What?), thieves (What?) who deserve to die because they should rightfully feel angry at the disgusting genocide that the Sangheili executed against them for nearly 30 years. This is not the behavior of beings who consider themselves to be honorable and noble. It is unscrupulous and petty and the writers want to simultaneously paint them as being this noble, honorbound and fairly intelligent race (Capable of using basic inductive logic and putting 2 and 2 together I presume? Because it does not look like it.) who also think and conspire to do unbelievably cruel and downright evil and wicked acts to an innocent race who did nothing to deserve such a fate, and they should know it. The writers want their cake and then eat it.

And if there is the faction of Human sympathizers out there, where are they? Why do we not get a glimpse of their point of views and follow them? Why are the Sangheili characters thus far, that we will probably be stuck with for the duration of the novel, all of the same ilk as everything we have ever seen before? Is it so much of a stretch to begin to reflect positive changes in their society and show them to us, or is the Haloverse going to live in the Human-Covenant war forever? Because we have all seen the usual points of view from these Elites in every other single novel thus far almost. It is sort of boring now. What ever happened to Conversations from the Universe that came with Halo 2? I doubt that Bungie just wrote that for the good of their health, it obviously had a purpose. As they did bothering to say on N’tho 'Sroam’s character profile that he is “a member of a growing number of Human sympathizers within the Sangheili youth”. What about everything in Halo 2 and 3, where the Elites broke away from the Covenant and joined with Humanity and fought and died alongside them, or Thel, Johnson and Miranda bringing down Tartarus and stopping Delta Halo together, or those iconic moments with John and Thel fighting together, or Rtas sparing Earth at the very probable risk of allowing a single Flood spore to survive, or seeing Zhar’s character develop with respect to Humanity, or the friendship between Rimmer and Henry or between Reff and Black 1 - are we just supposed to accept an “Oh btw none of that means very much; THIS is what is really going on” and not feel disappointed and expect a bit more after being led to see so much? I mean who actually cares what happens to this Jul idiot? An Elite who would quite happily kill countless Humans, why should we care what happens to this unscrupulous little worm? Why should we care what happens to the Sangheili at all now knowing that they have been made into murderers plotting to finish the job?

One last thing that really disapointed me was what Thel actually says during the meeting:

"But I plan to agree to a treaty, not because I have any fondness for humans but because I love Sanghelios."

So it was all meaningless afterall then. I think this ruins his character. The treaty is not due to a bad conscience for the years of butchery against an innocent race. It is not even partially that. It is solely for the continued realization of his people’s dominance. Making up for past sins appears to not be on the agenda for him at all. How can it not be even a little? Are we to believe that Thel actually has no feelings towards Humanity at all after everything he learned and saw? After the change he goes through at the end of The Cole Protocol? After struggling alongside John in those final days? I am sorry, but I cannot believe that there is a thinking person here who would believe such a thing.

Those two chapters were extremely disappointing. I wish that I had never read them now.

> I don’t like what I have seen so far. It is dour, depressive and a bit uninspiring. I actually do not feel as if I want to find out what happens next.

Seriously? These are only two chapters and they take place only two months after the war’s end. Did you really expect sunshine and rainbows only two months after the end of the war? Was the United States buddy buddy with the Soviet Union after WWII? By your logic we must have been because we were allies united against -Yoink!- Germany. But in the real world we became enemies and were on the brink of war for nearly 40 years.

> What is ONI doing?

You assume that if one Sangheili faction were to destroy another they wouldn’t take any casualties of their own and remain strong. This isn’t true and you should know this. A Sangheili Civil War will weaken both sides of the dispute making them no longer a threat to Humanity. The Sangheili are already struggling to rebuild themselves after the Covenant Civil War, they really don’t have the resources to fight each other. Humans will rebuild and get stronger while the Sangheili get weaker. That’s what ONI is doing.

> And as for the Sangheili? Why is there still this dour, universal blind hatred of Humans that shows no sign of weakening?

It’s only been TWO MONTHS! They spent 20 years destroying each other. Fighting side by side for a few months isn’t going to change all of that. They murdered BILLIONS. Burned hundreds of worlds. Humans destroyed hundreds or thousands of their ships, burned the atmosphere off of one of their colonies. People who spent two decades destroying each other don’t become friends overnight.

> And if there is the faction of Human sympathizers out there, where are they?

Again, this is two chapter of the book. Just because they weren’t shown doesn’t mean they’re not there. The Arbiter is still Pro-Human because he knows it will benefit Sangheilios. Other Sangheili even make fun of him for it. I would expect them to be in the book and considering the Arbiter is still alive in March 2553 and goes back to Earth to shake Hood’s hand.

> So it was all meaningless afterall then. I think this ruins his character.

A Sangheili being loyal to Sangheilios. Who would have thunk it? It benefits Sangheilios because it would mean no more destruction which allows them to rebuild. You can still be loyal to your home and respect your enemy at the same time.

It sounds to me a lot of you are the type of person who watches a 30 second preview to a movie and then concludes the movie is garbage. Yes, a 3 and a half hour movie is garbage based on 30 SECONDS of preview. Dumb. Be patient and draw a conclusion after you read the entire thing. Read it twice if you have to but please don’t pee yourself after two chapters.

I assumed the Brutes were likely enslaved.

> > I don’t like what I have seen so far. It is dour, depressive and a bit uninspiring. I actually do not feel as if I want to find out what happens next.
>
> Seriously? These are only two chapters and they take place only two months after the war’s end. Did you really expect sunshine and rainbows only two months after the end of the war? Was the United States buddy buddy with the Soviet Union after WWII? By your logic we must have been because we were allies united against -Yoink!- Germany. But in the real world we became enemies and were on the brink of war for nearly 40 years.
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>
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> > What is ONI doing?
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> You assume that if one Sangheili faction were to destroy another they wouldn’t take any casualties of their own and remain strong. This isn’t true and you should know this. A Sangheili Civil War will weaken both sides of the dispute making them no longer a threat to Humanity. The Sangheili are already struggling to rebuild themselves after the Covenant Civil War, they really don’t have the resources to fight each other. Humans will rebuild and get stronger while the Sangheili get weaker. That’s what ONI is doing.
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>
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> > And as for the Sangheili? Why is there still this dour, universal blind hatred of Humans that shows no sign of weakening?
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> It’s only been TWO MONTHS! They spent 20 years destroying each other. Fighting side by side for a few months isn’t going to change all of that. They murdered BILLIONS. Burned hundreds of worlds. Humans destroyed hundreds or thousands of their ships, burned the atmosphere off of one of their colonies. People who spent two decades destroying each other don’t become friends overnight.
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>
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> > And if there is the faction of Human sympathizers out there, where are they?
>
> Again, this is two chapter of the book. Just because they weren’t shown doesn’t mean they’re not there. The Arbiter is still Pro-Human because he knows it will benefit Sangheilios. Other Sangheili even make fun of him for it. I would expect them to be in the book and considering the Arbiter is still alive in March 2553 and goes back to Earth to shake Hood’s hand.
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> > So it was all meaningless afterall then. I think this ruins his character.
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>
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> A Sangheili being loyal to Sangheilios. Who would have thunk it? It benefits Sangheilios because it would mean no more destruction which allows them to rebuild. You can still be loyal to your home and respect your enemy at the same time.
>
> It sounds to me a lot of you are the type of person who watches a 30 second preview to a movie and then concludes the movie is garbage. Yes, a 3 and a half hour movie is garbage based on 30 SECONDS of preview. Dumb. Be patient and draw a conclusion after you read the entire thing. Read it twice if you have to but please don’t pee yourself after two chapters.

Listen, as much as I like to argue with Nihilus over the little things… as well as call him out on some stuff all on good nature, I have to say I’m with him when he says this. These are only the first two chapters, After a few decades of war, its easy to forget times when there was peace. Like this quote I am going to steal from the OXM Halo Issue “There have been countless generations that do not know what it means to be at peace”- Granted I dont have it in front of me, but it was something along the lines of that- When a war ends, there is never peace for the first little while. You cant expect two countries to suddenly be best friends after it.

This is even more-so the same for two alien races. Especially after decades of war, these two factions have been at war for a very long time. Human and Sangheilions Children over those past 30 years have all been taught that the opposite race is evil and deserves to be demolished. Sangheilions have only just started to separate them from the prophets lies… And even then, it takes many many years to reform a species wide culture of hating humans.

Here is my prediction for when the books comes out, and you can quote me on it. The humans that are being sent to Sanghelios are going to start off on their mission, being incredibly dedicated to it… but they will slowly, and quickly start to change their way of mind and in the end turn on the Oni plan.

I disagree with what you have said and think it’ll be epic.

There are always disagreeing motives and plans in a civilization – that doesn’t mean that what Parangosky is attempting will succeed for very long.

I could see Halsey acting like that. It might not have been flushed out in GoO but it was at the close of the book and would have drawn out the ending in a negative way.

I am definately more excited to read Grasslands after having read the first 2 chapters than before.