Give the Halo PC Community the Source Code.... Please?

The Halo PC Community was a great community with tons of great, imaginative, and beautiful custom content in its golden ages, but now its starting to slip. It is a rare gem to see a great map/mod come out for this game anymore due to the lack of interest in creating custom content for it now. Giving us the source code would enable for more interest to come into our community and (assuming you make the game free as well) create a population boost which we do need right now.

After seeing that you were making Anniversary only for the 360, I was sort of disappointed. I understand completely, though. It was originally for the Xbox so that’s where its Anniversary should be celebrated, but, there is a portion of the Halo: Combat Evolved Community that’s not getting anything on the PC. The greatest thing you could do is to give us that source code as a replacement to Anniversary.

We’ve been begging for it for years and have always been met with confusion and a lot of people even telling us it was lost. The truth is, though, that we know now that you have the source code to Halo Custom Edition (That is the engine you built off of to make Anniversary, right?) so now it’s up to you if the PC community can have the only thing that will breathe life into it again.

The source code for Anniversary is the original xbox version.

> The source code for Anniversary is the original xbox version.

I remember seeing a post somewhere detailing how they used the Custom Edition source for the project… Maybe it was just a dream :stuck_out_tongue:

The modding-scene is not dead. A new Project by the famous CMT-Team is currently in the making.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9TzjhVSYH0

Check out halomods.com for more information.

> The source code for Anniversary is the original xbox version.

No, it seems to be built on top of Gearbox’s port. It has all of Halo PC’s weird behaviours (like the jerky camera motion when exiting a vehicle), and in classic mode it primarily uses Halo PC’s model and texture set, right down to the ugly bugs and stuff like the AotCR sky.

Don’t forget the backpack reload :stuck_out_tongue:

> The modding-scene is not dead. A new Project by the famous CMT-Team is currently in the making.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9TzjhVSYH0
>
> Check out halomods.com for more information.

I posted this before it was announced that CMT was working on SPv3. Also, other than OpenSauce and SPv3, there isn’t much going on.

(By the way, yes, this is the OP. I don’t know what happened to my old account.)

I’ve got a good feeling things will start to pick back up again with OpenSauce v3.0 recently being released.

Downloaded it the day after it released and I’ve been hooked on Halo PC since.

I’ve been playing it a lot more, too. I’ll definitely be playing through the Campaign again once SPv3 is released as well. It’s nothing compared to how things would go if an actual source code was released, though. :stuck_out_tongue:

[deleted]

I was there for their releases and I was never really wowed by them. :stuck_out_tongue:

Not their fault at all, though. They didn’t have the tools they have to work with now and I’m extremely picky. So far SPv3 looks like it might actually bring out a wow factor for me that the other mods didn’t. :stuck_out_tongue:

Lol this is never going to happen. When was the last time a major game’s source was released?

Not to mention that it would spawn all kinds of new cheats/not working/custom versions it would be impossible to keep track of them all.

Not so, TetriS. The last big game that had its source released was Doom 3. None of the content was released with it, though.
Regarding organizing “cheats” (even though that’s not really what they are), I’ve had lots of experience with that through developing this web site, for example:

http://www.halodemomods.com/

…and I can certify that such a wiki setup would work great in such a scenario, like it works well for us on the Mac side of things. (In fact, I would personally welcome efforts to homogenize the Halo communities, since I have humongous plans for doing that myself through very impressive projects.)

Dr Syx, the following topics would interest you, as would information about my correspondence with Roger Wolfson who thankfully continues to handle the PC side of things. 343 Industries handles the licensing, though, so you’re in the right place here, I think.

http://www.macgamingmods.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=18030
http://www.macgamingmods.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=17635
http://www.macgamingmods.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=18050
http://www.macgamingmods.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=18047

Also, I request that a moderator not delete or modify the links in this post as they are greatly helpful to this conversation and I would have to resort to PMing people the info anyway, which would be considered “circumventing” a moderation. Thank you in advance.

Thank you! I’ll read them now!

On another note, there’s nothing being done about people hacking on Halo: Combat Evolved PC as it is. Even Sawnose has said it doesn’t concern him at this stage in the game’s life. If someone wants a hack, they can get one. There’s nothing in place to stop that now so how would releasing a source code make it easier? I don’t know any respectable competitive Halo PC players that are playing competitively in pubs, either.

Firstly, I recently learned that modding is frowned upon in discussions here, so let’s not continue them so much. A better place for “modding” discussions would be at Mac Gaming Mods - Index page.

No self-respecting modder I know would hack the game (that is, modify the executable or application) unless it was to improve it (because they did not have access to the game’s source code already, but their intentions were legitimate), to add a functionality to it that would be shared among other community members and published with changes for all to see. Among the Halo communities, there is far more legitimate modding (and for those unfamiliar with the term, to “mod” is to modify the map file(s) in the game, not to modify the game’s executable or application file; a “mod” is just a different version of a map file, just like Halo Custom Edition players build new map files – it’s the same concept, either changing it or building it anew) and far more creative ideas being shared on how to improve this game than there are those who would modify the game itself for whatever reason.

That’s why it seems that people who don’t know the difference between modding maps (“modding”) and modding the executable or its memory values (“hacking” or “cheating”) just lump all of it into the same bandwagon and call it all “hacking”. But intentions differ between those who want to add features to the game or make it more fun and those who want to abuse the game engine to do harm.

I think the best way to get things rolling would be to either release the source code to everyone and have a single legitimate web site such as a wiki like HDM or an area on this 343i site to publish legitimate modified versions of the game whose code has been checked by reputable modders or others in the community; or to have the source code kept secret as it is now and to have a suggestion-feedback system or forum area where people can make suggestions for the game. Of course, each comes with its flaws, which I’m sure anyone can see. There are also other convenient methods of implementation.

Feel free to continue this discussion elsewhere, like macgamingmods.com, but any of these topics about the source code would of course require working in most part with Gearbox, MacSoft and 343i. As far as contacts, for PC/Gearbox, try Roger Wolfson. For MacSoft, call Destineer by phone, and for 343i, this is the place.

Don’t release the source code unless you want creative players to contribute to the development of this game’s epic by doing code work on Halo 1. Enough creative players already seek how to make mods, so by simply allowing the modding communities to grow and working with them, you would allow the game to do well as it is. But the Halo 1 engine is a work of art and can be used to expand the epic of Halo in new, non-commercial directions. Consider the movie Star Wars and then consider the Star Wars franchise which resulted. Halo games also have books, and creative folks playing this game can already be creative within the limitations of the game engine. But many people (such as myself) want to take this game engine and enhance it so that it can be worked into something much nicer.

Alright, alright, so here’s a great analogy for you. Halo Combat Evolved Anniversary is basically a mish-mash of different versions of the game engine but uses Halo 1’s storyline and content, remade to the abilities of that bastardized engine. Now wouldn’t it be so much nicer to include with Halo: Anniversary a contest where all the most popular multiplayer maps would be commercially released with the game? (This sounds like it’s already been done!) Or wouldn’t it be awesome if map-makers and modders could demo and sell their maps and mods through Xbox Live for $1? Wouldn’t it be great to have other unaffiliated but experienced developers freely contribute to the development of the game engine and seek to take it into unclaimed territory in gaming history? How much more of an Anniversary edition that would be, to pay homage to all the developers and modders who have single-handedly made this game thrive behind-the-scenes, working within the game’s artful engine with the sole compensation of seeing their imagined environments played. The people of whom I speak do not even all have access to the Halo Editing Kit.

On the other hand, we have found that there is more creativity among certain communities than among others. Along these lines, I think it would be best to not release the source code but to work directly with communities which provide the best ideas and creative content. Communication of ideas is what I’m talking about, because the less access you have, the more dreaming you do. But only those who can look at the game’s code or reverse-engineer the .map files to figure out how they work will know how to proceed with their ideas. So it’s got to be based upon the creativity and efforts that the developers already see. They need to go community-exploring and ask around. How else to ascertain who is really interested in the game?

> wouldn’t it be awesome if map-makers and modders could demo and sell their maps and mods through Xbox Live for $1? Wouldn’t it be great to have other unaffiliated but experienced developers freely contribute to the development of the game engine and seek to take it into unclaimed territory in gaming history?

As from what I’ve heard that is what Blizzard was planning for Starcraft II. It’s an AMAZING idea. If Microsoft would do this then they would have the power of an ENORMOUS “development team” at little to no cost. If they would even take 25% of the sales for themselves they would make a GREAT buck off of it. The entire idea is absolutely genius. Having constant content being pushed into the community AND Microsoft making money off of it without spending much in the process? I can hardly see any reason Microsoft would EVER want to turn this idea down.

Just to talk about how you said modding is frowned upon on this forum, that’s an absolutely terrible thing. I understand that discussion about modifications to console systems or mods that are only available from modifying your system would be disapproved, but I feel we should be able to discuss modifications on games/platforms that encourage it. It would greatly sadden me to see 343 Industries take such an aggressive move towards people who just want to glorify the games they enjoy the same way they do when developing them. No doubt that most of their employees started off doing exactly what we’re talking about in the games they enjoyed. It would be terribly hypocritical of them to condemn us for that. If it’s just because of the misconceptions this community has towards what “modding” is then they ought to try to make an effort to correct it… Definitely if they could see the potential of what you just suggested.

Is there a way you could possibly send me a way to contact Sawnose privately? I think that at some point I would love to talk to him about all of this stuff. I ought to really try to collect all my thoughts on this before coming to him, though.

To close off this post, I just want anyone in a position of power to consider this. These are the kinds of things we can accomplish with limited tools. These things are breath-taking and keep us interested in a franchise for a long time. If it wasn’t for these sorts of things I would have never stayed with Halo for as long as I have. With in-depth community created content a game truly lives on. It continues to flourish and can renew its self time after time. If you can remember back to when you were a gamer, and hopefully even a “modder”, you know exactly why we love this sort of thing. That’s why you shouldn’t keep us from discussing this sort of thing. In fact, you should encourage us to do so. If Valve wouldn’t have encouraged it then where would they be? No Counter-Strike… No Team Fortress… No Day of Defeat… No Gary’s Mod… No audience.

What you said is entirely correct, but it’s not typically appropriate for forum members to argue with moderators about how a forum should be used. Rather, it is the role of members to understand the purposes of a forum and obey its rules while using it. This keeps topics organized and appropriate for a specific forum’s area and purposes. That’s why I welcomed you to use MacGamingMods/HaloDemoMods to continue this discussion instead. So as far as conversations about modding, use this link:

http://forum.halodemomods.com/

And for anything you want to discuss with and among 343i and about the games you see here, use the forums at this halo.xbox.com site where we’re currently writing. Give to MGM what is MGM’s and to 343i what is 343i’s.

Sorry for the late reply/bump, but whatever.

As for modding being looked down upon, they mean things that go against the EULA. While I haven’t ever actually read the Halo PC EULA, I can imagine it says something about derived works from the game. I’m not sure it says anything about map modding, something that HaloDemoMods teaches. Side note, interesting to meet the creator of that site.

The biggest problems I see with releasing the source code are: who to, and how different versions are going to sync with one another. The sheer amount of ways this could be exploited is staggering. Especially considering the only version check halo does is when connecting to GS server. At this point in the game’s life however, it couldn’t really hurt to release the code.

Not saying this would be great. Open source game + HEK actually being open sourced could possibly draw back members and revive CE/PC modding.

Also, without open-source modding tools, the modding community can’t exactly create some of the things in Anniversary. OpenSauce is great, but closed-source tools make some things impossible, and have pushed some people away from the modding community when they realized some stuff just wasn’t possible.

> That’s why it seems that people who don’t know the difference between modding maps (“modding”) and modding the executable or its memory values (“hacking” or “cheating”) just lump all of it into the same bandwagon and call it all “hacking”. But intentions differ between those who want to add features to the game or make it more fun and those who want to abuse the game engine to do harm.

Oh, this was perfect. However, not all things that modify memory are “hacking” in a negative way; I’ve seen some pretty damn cool things come from it, not to mention nohuds, flycams, and recently I made something that changed the KoTH hill timer; things that should have been in the original Halo. The modding/“hacking” community of halo has extended the game beyond what was common at the time and added features that most games should be including now.

I didn’t even think of the KoTH timer! My sense of creativity feels refreshed to have you point that one out.

Yes, and so modding and hacking the game has become a substitute for sharing ideas with the game developers. Ideally, there would be an open-ended “beta testing” for every version of Halo, where community modders and players (both have valuable contributions, in my experience) would suggest how to improve the game and its engine. This could tilt in a number of awkward directions, though, but not as long as it is maintained that modders would be allowed to publish their modded map files; this is because as a creative person, you want to see all your ideas come into fruition and test them yourself and release a final product on your own… and this would essentially be your own work contributed to the Halo community.

By the way, most of my mods are considered “concept mods”, often resulting in templates such as open-ended outer-space environments and other creations which seek to extend the limitations and boundaries of the game engine. Honestly, I think it benefits the entire gaming community to do such things, and it’s quite fun to have people do that as a developer so one can revise and idealize the game engine and its modding tools.

> > The modding-scene is not dead. A new Project by the famous CMT-Team is currently in the making.
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9TzjhVSYH0
> >
> > Check out halomods.com for more information.
>
> I posted this before it was announced that CMT was working on SPv3. Also, other than OpenSauce and SPv3, there isn’t much going on.
>
> (By the way, yes, this is the OP. I don’t know what happened to my old account.)

Its sad that some over-rated projects like SPV3 get much more attention than some more ambitious projects like Lumoria.

Lumoria

A fully custom story staying true the Halo 1 universe, completley new enviroments, and classic Halo 1 gameplay. It dosen’t get much better than that.

@OP.

You don’t want to know how many times we’ve attempted to get the source code. Open Suace is about as close as you will get unfortunately.