Give MLG FULL control of item placement

Games Other Halo
93

> > I care because I love and enjoy all facets of Halo gameplay. I do not want to be restricted to one playlist(reach) because the entire rest of the game is not to my liking (because it changed from what Halo was).
>
> Casual and noobs are already restricted to one playlist… Now you want to even take that away? The reason there are different playlists is to cater to different play-styles. There is no point having different playlists if they are all the same. Just because you can’t deal with the fact that Social playlist is meant to be for fun and not competitive doesn’t mean we should ignore the needs of a huge portion of the Halo community (casual/noobs). That is as crazy as saying we should get rid of Ranked/MLG and only have Social playlist with a ton of changes and no regard to balance.

What are you talking about? How are casuals/noobs restricted to one playlist? Almost the entirety of Reach is social, and in Halo 3 is was a 50/50 split. Furthermore, explain to me how fair and balanced weapon placement is detrimental to casuals? It doesn’t make sense to me. What “needs” of casuals are met by unbalanced spawns? I really would like to know.

Also, having MLG balance the items placement for every playlist does not mean that they will all be the same. Doubles will always play differently than slayer or BTB, regardless of item placement.

> > Balance is balance, no matter the level of play. Balancing the game around the top level of play will not unbalance the game for the rest of the players. That isn’t how it works.
>
> No that isn’t true. Social playlists aren’t about trying to balance. They are about reducing the skill gap. That is why there were AR starts instead of BR starts. If you put BR starts in social it will be too easy for good players to dominate noobs. A different approach needs to be taken to different playlists.

You think the point of social is about reducing the skill gap? Social is simply a place where you don’t have to worry about rank, and where you can take guests to mess around, and once again, having balanced weapon placement will not affect this, nor will it do anything to the skill gap. All it does is make the game fair for everyone and make the maps flow better. Please, tell me you enjoy when the other team gets a weapon because they spawned closer to it. It doesn’t matter who is playing the game, or what kind of setting you are in, that is not fun for anyone.

Not to mention, I don’t care if MLG doesn’t balance the social category for Halo 4 is there is one, I just care about ranked playlists. Let MLG have control of item placement for all ranked playlists, and 343 can do whatever they want for social.

And there are BR starts in social.

94

I support the idea of giving MLG the opportunity to present to 343 a blueprint of how they would place all the weapons in the sandbox designed for that particular map which 343 can accept/deny/modify before release. The interest of balance and fairness to competitive play trickles down to the more widespread casual fanbase in no negative ways, but the reverse is not true. You can play casually on a competitively balanced map, but you can’t play competitively on a casually balanced map.

95

This has been what I have been thinking all along about Reach in general. How can you have a good multiplayer without balanced maps?

What shocks me is the amount of people that just blindly hate MLG and competitiveness in general. Anyone with eyes can see that basically all of Reach’s maps are poorly balanced. To add to the examples take Spire for instance, one team spawns much closer to the banshee than the other team. This is quite possible the most deadly weapon that a team can possibly when placed in the right hands. have besides a tank and one team gets one and the other team is out of luck.

At least give both teams a chance for the power weapons/vehicles. There are no positives to having an unbalanced map for either casuals or competive players.

96

> What are you talking about? How are casuals/noobs restricted to one playlist? Almost the entirety of Reach is social, and in Halo 3 is was a 50/50 split. Furthermore, explain to me how fair and balanced weapon placement is detrimental to casuals? It doesn’t make sense to me. What “needs” of casuals are met by unbalanced spawns? I really would like to know.

I haven’t played Reach at all really. I am referring more to Halo 3. If you wanted to play just for fun and not competitively, all you had was Social. For competitive players there was ranked and MLG.

> You think the point of social is about reducing the skill gap? Social is simply a place where you don’t have to worry about rank, and where you can take guests to mess around, and once again, having balanced weapon placement will not affect this, nor will it do anything to the skill gap. All it does is make the game fair for everyone and make the maps flow better. Please, tell me you enjoy when the other team gets a weapon because they spawned closer to it. It doesn’t matter who is playing the game, or what kind of setting you are in, that is not fun for anyone.
>
> Not to mention, I don’t care if MLG doesn’t balance the social category for Halo 4 is there is one, I just care about ranked playlists. Let MLG have control of item placement for all ranked playlists, and 343 can do whatever they want for social.
>
> And there are BR starts in social.

Yes social is about lowering the skill gap… People like COD because it is easy/fast paced/etc. Halo requires more skill. If you want new people to join there needs to be a place they won’t get slaughtered by more experienced players. Put perks/etc. to make players feel they are good. Casuals and Pros need a different flow because they play the game differently. MLG will already be in control of the MLG playlist, no point giving them control of 2 because they would be the same… Let MLG do their take on competitive play and 343 do their take on it.

97

> > What are you talking about? How are casuals/noobs restricted to one playlist? Almost the entirety of Reach is social, and in Halo 3 is was a 50/50 split. Furthermore, explain to me how fair and balanced weapon placement is detrimental to casuals? It doesn’t make sense to me. What “needs” of casuals are met by unbalanced spawns? I really would like to know.
>
> I haven’t played Reach at all really. I am referring more to Halo 3. If you wanted to play just for fun and not competitively, all you had was Social. For competitive players there was ranked and MLG.

“all you had was social” That was 8 playlists! Lol, they had HALF the game. Why are you acting like casuals/noobs were restricted at all? They weren’t/

> > You think the point of social is about reducing the skill gap? Social is simply a place where you don’t have to worry about rank, and where you can take guests to mess around, and once again, having balanced weapon placement will not affect this, nor will it do anything to the skill gap. All it does is make the game fair for everyone and make the maps flow better. Please, tell me you enjoy when the other team gets a weapon because they spawned closer to it. It doesn’t matter who is playing the game, or what kind of setting you are in, that is not fun for anyone.
> >
> > Not to mention, I don’t care if MLG doesn’t balance the social category for Halo 4 is there is one, I just care about ranked playlists. Let MLG have control of item placement for all ranked playlists, and 343 can do whatever they want for social.
> >
> > And there are BR starts in social.
>
> Yes social is about lowering the skill gap… People like COD because it is easy/fast paced/etc. Halo requires more skill. If you want new people to join there needs to be a place they won’t get slaughtered by more experienced players. Put perks/etc. to make players feel they are good. Casuals and Pros need a different flow because they play the game differently. MLG will already be in control of the MLG playlist, no point giving them control of 2 because they would be the same… Let MLG do their take on competitive play and 343 do their take on it.

So you want a place where new players won’t get slaughtered by experienced players, yet you think that is social? Where you DON’T get matched up according to skill? The only place where experienced players can even play against noobs (disregarding second accounts)? Do you not see the flaw in your logic? Right now if I were to boot up Halo 3 and go into social with my team, I would destroy everyone I play against, because you don’t get matched up according to skill. I can not do that in ranked, which is why ranked is in fact a better place for new players.

Also, giving control of item placement will not make every playlist the same. Doubles and Slayer play differently regardless of item placement. What I want though, is balanced item placement in all ranked playlists, because that is better for competitive play. It also has not affect on casual players. You have yet to give me a single reason why balanced item placement is bad for casual players.

98

If you want them to have control then theres the playlist known as MLG. Simple as that. They get their own little playlist that they can mess with. They dont need to mess with the social playlist. Sure thay can give opinions but their control should only go on their playlist and thats that.

99

> If you want them to have control then theres the playlist known as MLG. Simple as that. They get their own little playlist that they can mess with. They dont need to mess with the social playlist. Sure thay can give opinions but their control should only go on their playlist and thats that.

Social can be untouched by MLG, but they should have full control over item placement in all of the ranked playlists.

MLG does item placement very well, and that is important for high level ranked gameplay.

100

> “all you had was social” That was 8 playlists! Lol, they had HALF the game. Why are you acting like casuals/noobs were restricted at all? They weren’t/

There were 8 gametypes not playlists… lol. The playlists were Social,DLC,Double Exp(Sometimes), Ranked, and MLG. I think that is all of them.

> So you want a place where new players won’t get slaughtered by experienced players, yet you think that is social? Where you DON’T get matched up according to skill? The only place where experienced players can even play against noobs (disregarding second accounts)? Do you not see the flaw in your logic? Right now if I were to boot up Halo 3 and go into social with my team, I would destroy everyone I play against, because you don’t get matched up according to skill. I can not do that in ranked, which is why ranked is in fact a better place for new players.
>
> Also, giving control of item placement will not make every playlist the same. Doubles and Slayer play differently regardless of item placement. What I want though, is balanced item placement in all ranked playlists, because that is better for competitive play. It also has not affect on casual players. You have yet to give me a single reason why balanced item placement is bad for casual players.

I think it is social because no bad player will choose to play a ranked game. I have explained that the game requires different balancing for noobs and pros.

The biggest reason and the reason that COD sells better than Halo is because even noobs can have their moment. In COD the game doesn’t try to be balanced/equal starts/etc. instead it has perks/Killstreaks/etc. because nobody likes to get dominated. These things reduce the skill gap and give bad players their chance to shine. In COD you can do the best if you are lucky and get an awesome care package. This cannot be done in Halo. Social playlists needs to be unbalanced so bad players can get lucky.

People can just pickup COD and do well quickly. This needs to be what the Social playlist is like for Halo. Of course skill will always make some difference but people like to play the games they do better at. What game do you think the noobs will play COD or Halo? Right now COD because they may suck at both but sometimes they have their moments in COD. This can only help the Halo community. As more people join the other playlists will grow and ranked playlists will be able to match people up better. Also hopefully it will become the most popular game again.

The only reason people would complain about balance in social is if that is the only place they can do good…

I don’t disagree with your point about balanced item placement in ranked playlists. I think it is premature to assume 343 will do bad. Their are 2 playlists MLG and ranked. If we only wanted MLG to design them why have a second playlist? Earlier I think you were confused about playlist. Here is an example:

Ranked:
Lone Wolves
Doubles
Team Swat
etc.

MLG
Team Slayer
Team King
etc.

101

> > If you want them to have control then theres the playlist known as MLG. Simple as that. They get their own little playlist that they can mess with. They dont need to mess with the social playlist. Sure thay can give opinions but their control should only go on their playlist and thats that.
>
> Social can be untouched by MLG, but they should have full control over item placement in all of the ranked playlists.
>
> MLG does item placement very well, and that is important for high level ranked gameplay.

I agree that mlg should have control over the ranked and more competitive playlists but like I believe social should be for everyone including mlg and, casuals and noobs. I dont mind MLG’s opinion if they go hey the rocket launcher is to close to red teams base or something but suggests things to make things funner for everyone. I rarely do ranked but when I do it pretty balanced. Even though I get creamed.

102

While I feel giving an outside source control of the game is not something 343i should do. 343i should make the base levels competitively balanced and change those, if need be, when put into social.
That way you’d have a balanced map using the entire sandbox to start off with, because like you said there really isn’t a downside to a competitive map.
I’d also like to go on record as a non-MLG player, who does like countdown and asylum. ; )

103

No. This is not their game. This is not what they are working for. Personally, they get no say in the development process is a win for me. They are players, skilled players without a doubt, but even the strongest monkey is still a monkey. he he he, for the record, I like MLG and seeing what they can accomplish, can’t wait to see what they do with the system of Halo 4 (should they travel down that road), but to give them weapon placement for the entire game? Besides, they should be happy with the freedom 343 gives them, if any.

104

> > “all you had was social” That was 8 playlists! Lol, they had HALF the game. Why are you acting like casuals/noobs were restricted at all? They weren’t/
>
> There were 8 gametypes not playlists… lol. The playlists were Social,DLC,Double Exp(Sometimes), Ranked, and MLG. I think that is all of them.

Please, go put in your Halo 3 disk and go to multiplayer matchmaking. A playlist is “Team Doubles” a gametype is what is in a playlist. For example there is the gametype “team slayer” in the playlist “Team doubles.” There is also the gametype “team slayer” in the playlist “Team Slayer.”

Here is the breakdown of playlists.

In the Social category you have:
-Rumble Pit
-Social Slayer
-Social Skirmish
-Action Sack
-Multi Team
-Team Mythic
-Social Big Team

In the Ranked category you have:
-Lone wolves
-Team Slayer
-Team Doubles
-Team Snipers
-MLG
-Team SWAT

Now, within all of those playlists are “gametypes”

The gametypes of Halo 3 are"
-Slayer
-Oddball
-King of The Hill
-Capture the Flag
-Assault
-Territories
-Juggernaut
-Infection
-VIP

> > So you want a place where new players won’t get slaughtered by experienced players, yet you think that is social? Where you DON’T get matched up according to skill? The only place where experienced players can even play against noobs (disregarding second accounts)? Do you not see the flaw in your logic? Right now if I were to boot up Halo 3 and go into social with my team, I would destroy everyone I play against, because you don’t get matched up according to skill. I can not do that in ranked, which is why ranked is in fact a better place for new players.
> >
> > Also, giving control of item placement will not make every playlist the same. Doubles and Slayer play differently regardless of item placement. What I want though, is balanced item placement in all ranked playlists, because that is better for competitive play. It also has not affect on casual players. You have yet to give me a single reason why balanced item placement is bad for casual players.
>
> I think it is social because no bad player will choose to play a ranked game. I have explained that the game requires different balancing for noobs and pros.
>
> The biggest reason and the reason that COD sells better than Halo is because even noobs can have their moment. In COD the game doesn’t try to be balanced/equal starts/etc. instead it has perks/Killstreaks/etc. because nobody likes to get dominated. These things reduce the skill gap and give bad players their chance to shine. In COD you can do the best if you are lucky and get an awesome care package. This cannot be done in Halo. Social playlists needs to be unbalanced so bad players can get lucky.
>
> People can just pickup COD and do well quickly. This needs to be what the Social playlist is like for Halo. Of course skill will always make some difference but people like to play the games they do better at. What game do you think the noobs will play COD or Halo? Right now COD because they may suck at both but sometimes they have their moments in COD. This can only help the Halo community. As more people join the other playlists will grow and ranked playlists will be able to match people up better. Also hopefully it will become the most popular game again.
>
> The only reason people would complain about balance in social is if that is the only place they can do good…
>
> I don’t disagree with your point about balanced item placement in ranked playlists. I think it is premature to assume 343 will do bad. Their are 2 playlists MLG and ranked. If we only wanted MLG to design them why have a second playlist? Earlier I think you were confused about playlist. Here is an example:
>
> Ranked:
> Lone Wolves
> Doubles
> Team Swat
> etc.
>
> MLG
> Team Slayer
> Team King
> etc.

Of course bad players play ranked…they are the ones who are at the lower ranks. And you haven’t explained why casual players need a different balance than pros, you only said that they do. Why? What will balance do to casual players? You seem to think it will make them unable to do well, but how is that the case?

And I don’t want MLG to design playlists, I want 343 to do that, and MLG to balance the item placement. That is it.

105

> No. This is not their game. This is not what they are working for. Personally, they get no say in the development process is a win for me. They are players, skilled players without a doubt, but even the strongest monkey is still a monkey. he he he, for the record, I like MLG and seeing what they can accomplish, can’t wait to see what they do with the system of Halo 4 (should they travel down that road), but to give them weapon placement for the entire game? Besides, they should be happy with the freedom 343 gives them, if any.

Not the whole game, just the ranked section.

And why would it be bad for MLG to have control over item placement? What could possibly be bad about that?

It will only benefit you.

106

Oh yea, you are right about the playlist vs game types thing. My bad it has been a while since I played Halo 3.

> Of course bad players play ranked…they are the ones who are at the lower ranks. And you haven’t explained why casual players need a different balance than pros, you only said that they do. Why? What will balance do to casual players? You seem to think it will make them unable to do well, but how is that the case?
>
> And I don’t want MLG to design playlists, I want 343 to do that, and MLG to balance the item placement. That is it.

You seem to think because some bad players play ranked most of them do… Bad players will do poorly in a balanced game because it is balanced… lol. The better player should win. For why it shouldn’t be balanced see:

> The biggest reason and the reason that COD sells better than Halo is because even noobs can have their moment. In COD the game doesn’t try to be balanced/equal starts/etc. instead it has perks/Killstreaks/etc. because nobody likes to get dominated. These things reduce the skill gap and give bad players their chance to shine. In COD you can do the best if you are lucky and get an awesome care package. This cannot be done in Halo. Social playlists needs to be unbalanced so bad players can get lucky.
>
> People can just pickup COD and do well quickly. This needs to be what the Social playlist is like for Halo. Of course skill will always make some difference but people like to play the games they do better at. What game do you think the noobs will play COD or Halo? Right now COD because they may suck at both but sometimes they have their moments in COD. This can only help the Halo community. As more people join the other playlists will grow and ranked playlists will be able to match people up better. Also hopefully it will become the most popular game again.
>
> The only reason people would complain about balance in social is if that is the only place they can do good…

I have no problem with balance for competitive gameplay. What I want is for MLG to have its own category. It has full power over that category to make custom playlists/game types/modify weapons/item placement/etc. And 343 to have control over Ranked and Social.

107

> Oh yea, you are right about the playlist vs game types thing. My bad it has been a while since I played Halo 3.
>
>
>
> > Of course bad players play ranked…they are the ones who are at the lower ranks. And you haven’t explained why casual players need a different balance than pros, you only said that they do. Why? What will balance do to casual players? You seem to think it will make them unable to do well, but how is that the case?
> >
> > And I don’t want MLG to design playlists, I want 343 to do that, and MLG to balance the item placement. That is it.
>
> You seem to think because some bad players play ranked most of them do… Bad players will do poorly in a balanced game because it is balanced… lol. The better player should win. For why it shouldn’t be balanced see:

Bad players will do poorly in a balanced game because they are bad. They will also do poorly in unbalanced games because they are bad. Doing well when you are a bad player doesn’t have to do with an unbalanced game, it has to do with getting lucky or playing even worse players. The only thing balance does is make the game fair for everyone.

> > The biggest reason and the reason that COD sells better than Halo is because even noobs can have their moment. In COD the game doesn’t try to be balanced/equal starts/etc. instead it has perks/Killstreaks/etc. because nobody likes to get dominated. These things reduce the skill gap and give bad players their chance to shine. In COD you can do the best if you are lucky and get an awesome care package. This cannot be done in Halo. Social playlists needs to be unbalanced so bad players can get lucky.
> >
> > People can just pickup COD and do well quickly. This needs to be what the Social playlist is like for Halo. Of course skill will always make some difference but people like to play the games they do better at. What game do you think the noobs will play COD or Halo? Right now COD because they may suck at both but sometimes they have their moments in COD. This can only help the Halo community. As more people join the other playlists will grow and ranked playlists will be able to match people up better. Also hopefully it will become the most popular game again.
> >
> > The only reason people would complain about balance in social is if that is the only place they can do good…
>
> I have no problem with balance for competitive gameplay. What I want is for MLG to have its own category. It has full power over that category to make custom playlists/game types/modify weapons/item placement/etc. And 343 to have control over Ranked and Social.

I want MLG to have control over ranked and 343 to have control over social. MLG doesn’t need it’s own entire category, but I want the ranked section of Halo 4 to be balanced. MLG does that very well, so why not let them balance the item placement for ranked?

108

> Bad players will do poorly in a balanced game because they are bad. They will also do poorly in unbalanced games because they are bad. Doing well when you are a bad player doesn’t have to do with an unbalanced game, it has to do with getting lucky or playing even worse players. The only thing balance does is make the game fair for everyone.

Exactly but if a player is constantly doing bad they will not like the game. They need to do what COD does and give them some moments where they can feel good. Give them prestige so they can brag about that instead of skill/etc. Most noobs/casuals are not going to keep playing Halo when COD is so accessible. Social isn’t about balanced fun. A balanced game only makes it more fun for better players, not the casuals/noobs. This is why COD sells so well. This is why they added death-streaks in COD. So even when you are dying you are making progress lol.

> I want MLG to have control over ranked and 343 to have control over social. MLG doesn’t need it’s own entire category, but I want the ranked section of Halo 4 to be balanced. MLG does that very well, so why not let them balance the item placement for ranked?

I think that they can offer advice in the forums but I think we should give 343 a chance. Worst case scenario is we just play MLG while they fix it. Plus I think it would be better to not have 2 categories that are pretty much identical. Let them each do their take on competitive play. I think giving MLG its own category would be nice because in H3 there weren’t many MLG playlists if I remember correctly. I would like to see a MLG lone wolves, since that was my fav. ranked playlist.

109

> > > Halo should not cater to MLG, MLG should cater to Halo. MLG should be on their knees thanking Bungie and soon to be 343i for making and continuing the Halo series for them to use and have in MLG related events.
> >
> > Oh, dude they’ve been about to drop Reach off the circuit because of unpopular and broken it is respectively was.
>
> <mark>I don’t understand why MLG isn’t dropping Halo. They are losing viewers because Reach is boring to watch, and the halls aren’t even half full.</mark> The only reason I can think of that why they don’t drop it is because Halo is one of the first game they started with. They have like 20 other games they can cater to on Xbox, Ps3, Wii, Ds, PC and probably other gaming consoles too.

Did you watch MLG Columbus 2012? I assume you didn’t because if you had, theres no way you would be posting this.

110

> > Bad players will do poorly in a balanced game because they are bad. They will also do poorly in unbalanced games because they are bad. Doing well when you are a bad player doesn’t have to do with an unbalanced game, it has to do with getting lucky or playing even worse players. The only thing balance does is make the game fair for everyone.
>
> Exactly but if a player is constantly doing bad they will not like the game. They need to do what COD does and give them some moments where they can feel good. Give them prestige so they can brag about that instead of skill/etc. Most noobs/casuals are not going to keep playing Halo when COD is so accessible. Social isn’t about balanced fun. A balanced game only makes it more fun for better players, not the casuals/noobs. This is why COD sells so well. This is why they added death-streaks in COD. So even when you are dying you are making progress lol.

I can agree with this, for social. Which is why I said MLG shouldn’t have control over social, just ranked, where it matters if it is balanced or not.

> > I want MLG to have control over ranked and 343 to have control over social. MLG doesn’t need it’s own entire category, but I want the ranked section of Halo 4 to be balanced. MLG does that very well, so why not let them balance the item placement for ranked?
>
> I think that they can offer advice in the forums but I think we should give 343 a chance. Worst case scenario is we just play MLG while they fix it. Plus I think it would be better to not have 2 categories that are pretty much identical. Let them each do their take on competitive play. I think giving MLG its own category would be nice because in H3 there weren’t many MLG playlists if I remember correctly. I would like to see a MLG lone wolves, since that was my fav. ranked playlist.

The categories won’t be identical. It is just item placement, that is it. It would be just like Halo 3 where you have Team doubles and team slayer and MLG all in the same category, only MLG would simply make the items on the map balanced for competitive play.

That is it.

111

> > No. This is not their game. This is not what they are working for. Personally, they get no say in the development process is a win for me. They are players, skilled players without a doubt, but even the strongest monkey is still a monkey. he he he, for the record, I like MLG and seeing what they can accomplish, can’t wait to see what they do with the system of Halo 4 (should they travel down that road), but to give them weapon placement for the entire game? Besides, they should be happy with the freedom 343 gives them, if any.
>
> Not the whole game, just the ranked section.
>
> And why would it be bad for MLG to have control over item placement? What could possibly be bad about that?
>
> It will only benefit you.

Because of the personal exclusion and substitution of weaponry for one. and since when did MLG define the elements of any game? MLG is a business that thrives on video games. If tomorrow all video games cut ties with MLG and said they are starting a protest against their principles, MLG would have no authority to say or do anything otherwise. It’s a business, not a game developing company. This is 343’s baby and I’m sure they would allow MLG to have their input, but in the end? It is 343 developing the game, putting in 3 years of developing timeframe to build this game. MLG has no place to be influencing that beyond final production input notes.

112

MLG people Making MLG playlist thats FINE

Its there playlist …

But only MLG not every playlist