Give 343 a chance!

Games Halo 5: Guardians
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Edited by Moderator - Please do not post discriminatory comments or make nonconstructive posts.

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

I am so sick of people bashing 343industries. Halo 4 is a great game. It’s flawed, but it’s great. They made some mistakes, but that’s how people learn not to make more. They try something different to prevent fans from getting bored of the franchise, and all they get is constant b****ing. These “true Halo fans” feel that Halo should stay the same, yet don’t we often criticise Call of Duty for it’s lack of variety? These guys are making the fanbase look like a bunch of hypocrites!

343i made some mistakes, and it’s undeniable that Halo 4 is not the best game in the series, but I don’t think it’s the worst either. My least favourite is Halo: Reach but that’s another rant altogether. All I’m saying is that 343 aren’t as bad as the fanbase is making them out to be. I applaud 343 for trying something different. I’d rather them be innovative than to keep re-hashing the same game over and over (If they did, the Bungiefags will probably attack them for that as well). They’re trying to make their games better, by balancing the weapons, giving us free Forge DLC and getting Bravo on the team to make it better, yet all they get is complaints.

People even go as far to say that Halo: Xbox ONE will be bad. They judge prematurely, I hate those kind of “fans”. Halo has innovated in the past, and I’m sure it will continue to innovate. They admitted they made mistakes with Halo 4, and they’ve said they’ll do better next time, and I strongly believe them. Not many companies admit their mistakes like that, so 343 have gained some respect from me for doing so. Just keep an open mind about them, I’m pretty sure that 343 knows that if they mess this game up then they’ll have to say goodbye to the fanbase, and this alone should encourage 343 to try hard to make a good game. I think Halo: Xbox ONE will be great and I’m excited for it. Wait until their next game comes out and if it’s a bad game, then criticise all you want. If it’s a good game, then judge it fairly and admit it’s good. Don’t just hate the games for change, just look at the big picture.

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I would say the vast majority of people are cautiously optimistic about H5 or whatever it’s gonna be called. And I would say the vast majority of people who played H4 for any period of time would say they did not like H4 very much.

If 343i actually listens to the competitive population about the flaws of H4, I’m optimistic they can correct things. If they don’t I’m not very optimistic.

Now, based upon what they’ve done lately to kill the Team Slayer population in H4 (by requiring DLC) and their inability to right the population ship in H4 with good map packs and fixes to things people hated about the game, I think it’s reasonable for someone to conclude that the game is being actively mismanaged. Whether you want to draw conclusions about whether H5 will be any better is to me a crap shoot.

Bungie was a playful organization, and that meant when you got your copy of their latest Halo game you knew you were getting something creative. It was built into their development team. I would argue Reach was a massive failure on most levels (possibly due to developer bloat or organizational changes or perhaps just a desire to mess with the game, I don’t know) but there were at least things outside of the gameplay that drew you into the game.

343i has shown none of that creativity. There has been very little feedback from them, no back and forth with the community (they didn’t even have a beta), only a very closed doors attitude and some murmurs about changing their release dates and how they will look at the data - which at this point, if you’re looking at the current H4 population for ‘data’ you’re making a HUGE mistake. Case in point, the argument made by 343’s top designer that sprint should be a default ability because it was the favorite AA in Reach. UGH. Really?

343 has done nothing to address issues that should be patchable to the game: JIP, descoping, flinch, bullet magnetism, nosprint options.

Personally, I’m optimistic because I think they decided to fix this stuff in H5 rather than try to fix a host of issues in H4, and even though they messed with the hoppers they were at least trying SOMETHING.

But…for the first time ever I probably won’t be buying H5 on its release date. I’ll see what the pros say about its competitiveness in pre-release, and decide if it’s worth shelling out for both the Xbone and H5.

For the record I’d love to be proved wrong and I hope they return to their roots of gameplay rather than continue to try and court casuals away from CoD clones.

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Well get used to it, that won’t stop.

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Disagree.

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Some mistakes shouldn’t have been made. There is no reason for custom games to have been so poor. There is no reason Theater for campaign and Spartan Ops should be cut. There is no reason the user interface should be bad.

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People didn’t like the new direction especially given how they didn’t care for Reach’s and yet 343i decides to emulate Reach? Shocker.

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Call of Duty may not innovate upon each game, but it still knows what to do to keep it’s fans happy by adding new content while keeping the elements that made CoD great intact. Halo 4? Not so much, especially if you liked vehicles, balanced starting weapons, good custom games, etc.

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Odd since Halo 4 is pretty much Reach 2 in terms of gameplay and features…except Reach’s massive custom game options. Odd how that got cut.

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That is going to come down to individual opinion.

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And after this, you lost ALL credibility. Try to be mature and maybe you’ll actually have a point.

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You lost me at Halo 4 is a great game. Great Halo games don’t have an online population of less than 15k not even a year after release.

This game failed on every level.

I honestly can’t think of one thing it did right…

bad maps
bad connection
bad mechanics
bad custom options
bad UI
bad ranking system
bad game design choices
bad theater
bad file browser

I mean do I really need to continue?

How can I give them a chance when they had all the information they needed when designing Halo 4 and still managed to go on a Reach style path…

At this point I don’t believe it is on the community to prove their faith in 343, it is 343’s job to prove to the community they know what the community wants and can provide it. So far that remains to be seen.

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What Cobra said, but somehow I still find myself playing it almost daily. Perhaps because it is the current Halo.

I think 343i will move things in the right direction in the years to come. Spielberg too.

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> You lost me at Halo 4 is a great game. Great Halo games don’t have an online population of less than 15k not even a year after release.
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> This game failed on every level.
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> I honestly can’t think of one thing it did right…
>
> bad maps
> bad connection
> bad mechanics
> bad custom options
> bad UI
> bad ranking system
> bad game design choices
> bad theater
> bad file browser
>
> I mean do I really need to continue?
>
> How can I give them a chance when they had all the information they needed when designing Halo 4 and still managed to go on a Reach style path…
>
> At this point I don’t believe it is on the community to prove their faith in 343, it is 343’s job to prove to the community they know what the community wants and can provide it. So far that remains to be seen.

“Bad maps” They were better than Reach maps, just Forged maps and maps recycled from campaign.
“Bad connection” I had no problems with lag, if that’s what you mean.
“Bad mechanics” I must insist you elaborate, otherwise you have a point with nothing to back it up.
“Bad custom options” You do have a point. Like I said, Halo 4 has flaws.
“Bad UI” That comes down to opinion. Personally, I liked it.
“Bad ranking system” That one I will give you.
“Bad game design choices” Again, elaborate.
“Bad theatre” The only problem I found was not being able to use it in campaign. Other than that, there were no problems.
“Bad file browser” Again, elaborate.

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The reasons why I like Halo 4 over Reach:
The campaign includes a lot of character development, and it’s pretty intense at times, unlike Reach which just felt pale and depressing.
Multiplayer felt like Reach improved. Better weapons (The BR, the automatics are actually useful, the Carbine, etc), better maps (Not just forge maps and recycled campaign levels).
Whilst Halo Reach did better with some things (Invasion, custom games, Firefight and Forge) I personally prefer the multiplayer and campaign over Reach.

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I disagree on basically everything you said OP.
I will say that the only reason I’m playing still is to complete my commendations for “first strike” and I’m gone. There isn’t really anything for me to work for in MP and it not like the campaign has anything like a theater or scoring to make me come back to it.

o XaVi3r o pretty much said all that needs to be said about it.

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Edited by Moderator - Please refrain from making nonconstructive posts.

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

> I am so sick of people bashing 343industries.

> Well get used to it, that won’t stop.

Yup, even if 343 makes an excellent game, the Bungie fanboys will STILL attack them.

> Call of Duty may not innovate upon each game, but it still knows what to do to keep it’s fans happy by adding new content while keeping the elements that made CoD great intact. Halo 4? Not so much, especially if you liked vehicles, balanced starting weapons, good custom games, etc.

Ah yes. Even down to completely butchering it. Bad hit detection, bad spawning, tons of glitches, etc. The newer games have a lot more problems than the older ones. CoD: WaW still remains my favourite.

> Odd since Halo 4 is pretty much Reach 2 in terms of gameplay and features…except Reach’s massive custom game options. Odd how that got cut.

Alright, I won’t deny that Halo Reach did do a few things well, better than every Halo game even (Custom games, Forge, Firefight) but to me those things aren’t as important as the matchmaking and campaign, which is what I feel Halo 4 did really well. I think it’s underrated. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. Just respect my opinions and I’ll respect yours.

> That is going to come down to individual opinion.

A lot of people are biassed against 343, just because they made a few mistakes. I’m sure if Bungie would’ve done the same thing, the fans would just accept it.

> I applaud 343 for trying something different. I’d rather them be innovative than to keep re-hashing the same game over and over (<mark>If they did, the Bungiefags will probably attack them for that as well</mark>).

> And after this, you lost ALL credibility. Try to be mature and maybe you’ll actually have a point.

Okay, I probably should’ve worded it differently but my point still stands. The “true Halo fans” as they call themselves would’ve criticised 343 for making all the games the same, saying that the series is becoming repetitive, and I would’ve as well. But they also criticise them because “it’s not like Halo anymore” They bash them for trying something different. My favourite Halo game is Combat Evolved, but I like Halo 4 and I believe it has been judged unfairly.

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Really? Really? I like 343 and could care less about Bungie but insulting people makes you loose all credibility you had

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> Yup, even if 343 makes an excellent game, the Bungie fanboys will STILL attack them.

Would you listen to me if I said that even if Halo 5 is a bad game 343i fanboys will still praise it? Not very nice is it? Obviously I don’t think that, but such logic is better left unsaid.

> Ah yes. Even down to completely butchering it. Bad hit detection, bad spawning, tons of glitches, etc. The newer games have a lot more problems than the older ones. CoD: WaW still remains my favourite.

Yet the franchise doesn’t deviate from what made it successful to begin with. We can debate its problems, but the core of Call of Duty is still the same. Halo 4 sacrificed its core to try and wrangle in new players, but it didn’t work.

> Alright, I won’t deny that Halo Reach did do a few things well, better than every Halo game even (Custom games, Forge, Firefight) but to me those things aren’t as important as the matchmaking and campaign, which is what I feel Halo 4 did really well. I think it’s underrated. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. Just respect my opinions and I’ll respect yours.

The campaign in Halo 4 was ambitious, but so was Icarus soaring up, up, up. He still came crashing to the ground though. The only redeemable aspects of Halo 4’s campaign is that Chief and Cortana’s relationship was better developed and the overall story isn’t as bad as Spartan Op’s story.

> A lot of people are biassed against 343, just because they made a few mistakes. I’m sure if Bungie would’ve done the same thing, the fans would just accept it.

You are showing flawed thinking. People hated what Bungie did with Reach, why on earth would they accept Halo 4 if it was the same only made by Bungie? It’s Reach 2.0 in a sense. Also, people don’t like 343i because of a few mistakes. It stems from what see as a pattern of disappointment. Will you fault those who didn’t enjoy Halo Legends? Will you fault them for not liking some of the books put out by 343i? It wasn’t JUST Halo 4, but Halo 4 was a tipping point.

> Okay, I probably should’ve worded it differently but my point still stands. The “true Halo fans” as they call themselves would’ve criticised 343 for making all the games the same, saying that the series is becoming repetitive, and I would’ve as well. But they also criticise them because “it’s not like Halo anymore” <mark>They bash them for trying something different.</mark> My favourite Halo game is Combat Evolved, but I like Halo 4 and I believe it has been judged unfairly.

No, they bash 343i because they tried something different and it not working. They made claims about taking Halo back to its roots and even revealed they had an early version of the game that was traditional Halo and yet scrapped it because it was too traditional.

They took a gamble and lost.

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> > Yup, even if 343 makes an excellent game, the Bungie fanboys will STILL attack them.
>
> Would you listen to me if I said that even if Halo 5 is a bad game 343i fanboys will still praise it? Not very nice is it? Obviously I don’t think that, but such logic is better left unsaid.
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>
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> > Ah yes. Even down to completely butchering it. Bad hit detection, bad spawning, tons of glitches, etc. The newer games have a lot more problems than the older ones. CoD: WaW still remains my favourite.
>
> Yet the franchise doesn’t deviate from what made it successful to begin with. We can debate its problems, but the core of Call of Duty is still the same. Halo 4 sacrificed its core to try and wrangle in new players, but it didn’t work.
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> > Alright, I won’t deny that Halo Reach did do a few things well, better than every Halo game even (Custom games, Forge, Firefight) but to me those things aren’t as important as the matchmaking and campaign, which is what I feel Halo 4 did really well. I think it’s underrated. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. Just respect my opinions and I’ll respect yours.
>
> The campaign in Halo 4 was ambitious, but so was Icarus soaring up, up, up. He still came crashing to the ground though. The only redeemable aspects of Halo 4’s campaign is that Chief and Cortana’s relationship was better developed and the overall story isn’t as bad as Spartan Op’s story.
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>
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> > A lot of people are biassed against 343, just because they made a few mistakes. I’m sure if Bungie would’ve done the same thing, the fans would just accept it.
>
> You are showing flawed thinking. People hated what Bungie did with Reach, why on earth would they accept Halo 4 if it was the same only made by Bungie? It’s Reach 2.0 in a sense. Also, people don’t like 343i because of a few mistakes. It stems from what see as a pattern of disappointment. Will you fault those who didn’t enjoy Halo Legends? Will you fault them for not liking some of the books put out by 343i? It wasn’t JUST Halo 4, but Halo 4 was a tipping point.
>
>
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> > Okay, I probably should’ve worded it differently but my point still stands. The “true Halo fans” as they call themselves would’ve criticised 343 for making all the games the same, saying that the series is becoming repetitive, and I would’ve as well. But they also criticise them because “it’s not like Halo anymore” <mark>They bash them for trying something different.</mark> My favourite Halo game is Combat Evolved, but I like Halo 4 and I believe it has been judged unfairly.
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> > No, they bash 343i because they tried something different and it not working. They made claims about taking Halo back to its roots and even revealed they had an early version of the game that was traditional Halo and yet scrapped it because it was too traditional.
> >
> > They took a gamble and lost.
>
> If they hated what Bungie did with Reach, then why are they so excited about Destiny? They keep saying that 343 are going to screw up Halo 5 like they apparently did with Halo 4, yet Bungie get a free pass from screwing up Reach? Don’t get me wrong, I’m looking forward to Destiny but don’t you see the contradiction? I’m pretty sure all this negative feedback towards 343 and Halo 4 is getting to them, and they’re most likely learning from their mistakes.
>
> I will agree that Halo 4 fell short on the competitive side, but how was Halo Reach in any way more competitive than Halo 4? That game didn’t have any CSR either! At least 343 added CSR in Waypoint. I know it’s not much, but it’s more than what Reach did! They re-balanced the guns and added in Legendary slayer and Team Throwdown to appeal to the classic Halo fans. Getting Bravo on the team certainly has helped them, and I’m pretty sure it will continue to help them in the future. Hey, at LEAST 343i has attempted to make Halo 4 better, unlike Bungie with Reach. 343 have only made one game. Give them a chance and they’ll do better. The more support they get, the better they’ll do.

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> If they hated what Bungie did with Reach, then why are they so excited about Destiny? They keep saying that 343 are going to screw up Halo 5 like they apparently did with Halo 4, yet Bungie get a free pass from screwing up Reach? Don’t get me wrong, I’m looking forward to Destiny but don’t you see the contradiction? I’m pretty sure all this negative feedback towards 343 and Halo 4 is getting to them, and they’re most likely learning from their mistakes.

I’d wager that since Destiny makes no claims to be like Halo or is going to take Halo back to its roots, that is why it gets a free pass as you put it. Destiny is a whole new game in a whole new world in a whole new franchise. And even then, Bungie demonstrated that they have the capacity and knowledge to make a good game.

> I will agree that Halo 4 fell short on the competitive side, but how was Halo Reach in any way more competitive than Halo 4? That game didn’t have any CSR either! At least 343 added CSR in Waypoint.

Never made the claim it was more competitive.

> I know it’s not much, but it’s more than what Reach did!

Reach had Arena. May not be the ranking system others wanted, but it isn’t like Bungie had nothing.

> They re-balanced the guns and added in Legendary slayer and Team Throwdown to appeal to the classic Halo fans. Getting Bravo on the team certainly has helped them, and I’m pretty sure it will continue to help them in the future. Hey, at LEAST 343i has attempted to make Halo 4 better, unlike Bungie with Reach. 343 have only made one game.

343i’s attempt to give the classic fans what they want is too little, too late. The population continues to drain and there isn’t much left to keep them around. Sure they tried, but they sure took their sweet time and it didn’t end well.

> Give them a chance and they’ll do better. The more support they get, the better they’ll do.

I did give them a chance, they disappointed.

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> > If they hated what Bungie did with Reach, then why are they so excited about Destiny? They keep saying that 343 are going to screw up Halo 5 like they apparently did with Halo 4, yet Bungie get a free pass from screwing up Reach? Don’t get me wrong, I’m looking forward to Destiny but don’t you see the contradiction? I’m pretty sure all this negative feedback towards 343 and Halo 4 is getting to them, and they’re most likely learning from their mistakes.
>
> I’d wager that since Destiny makes no claims to be like Halo or is going to take Halo back to its roots, that is why it gets a free pass as you put it. Destiny is a whole new game in a whole new world in a whole new franchise. And even then, Bungie demonstrated that they have the capacity and knowledge to make a good game.
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> > I will agree that Halo 4 fell short on the competitive side, but how was Halo Reach in any way more competitive than Halo 4? That game didn’t have any CSR either! At least 343 added CSR in Waypoint.
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> Never made the claim it was more competitive.
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> > I know it’s not much, but it’s more than what Reach did!
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> Reach had Arena. May not be the ranking system others wanted, but it isn’t like Bungie had nothing.
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>
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> > They re-balanced the guns and added in Legendary slayer and Team Throwdown to appeal to the classic Halo fans. Getting Bravo on the team certainly has helped them, and I’m pretty sure it will continue to help them in the future. Hey, at LEAST 343i has attempted to make Halo 4 better, unlike Bungie with Reach. 343 have only made one game.
>
> 343i’s attempt to give the classic fans what they want is too little, too late. The population continues to drain and there isn’t much left to keep them around. Sure they tried, but they sure took their sweet time and it didn’t end well.
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> > Give them a chance and they’ll do better. The more support they get, the better they’ll do.
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> I did give them a chance, they disappointed.

It was their first game, obviously it’s not going to be perfect. 343 have more feedback, more staff including Bravo, better hardware to work with and more experience. I’m not saying this game’s going to be the best one in the series, I’m just saying that we should judge it fairly, by the quality of it, not by the mistakes that they made on the previous game. At least they had the guts to come out and admit that they made mistakes. Surely acknowledging your mistakes will prevent them from happening in the future, no?

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> It was their first game, obviously it’s not going to be perfect.

Didn’t have to be perfect, it just had to be good and it wasn’t for me and many others.

> 343 have more feedback, more staff including Bravo, better hardware to work with and more experience. I’m not saying this game’s going to be the best one in the series, I’m just saying that we should judge it fairly, by the quality of it, not by the mistakes that they made on the previous game. At least they had the guts to come out and admit that they made mistakes. <mark>Surely acknowledging your mistakes will prevent them from happening in the future, no?</mark>

Not necessarily.

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> > It was their first game, obviously it’s not going to be perfect.
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> Didn’t have to be perfect, it just had to be good and it wasn’t for me and many others.
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>
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> > 343 have more feedback, more staff including Bravo, better hardware to work with and more experience. I’m not saying this game’s going to be the best one in the series, I’m just saying that we should judge it fairly, by the quality of it, not by the mistakes that they made on the previous game. At least they had the guts to come out and admit that they made mistakes. <mark>Surely acknowledging your mistakes will prevent them from happening in the future, no?</mark>
>
> Not necessarily.

I seriously doubt 343 are stupid enough to repeat a mistake that they acknowledged. Why? They need to make money, and they won’t if they make the same mistakes again and lose their fanbase will they? You’re making 343 out to be stupid and blind to their own mistakes. Riddle me this, why would they acknowledge their mistakes and say that they’ll do much better if they have no intentions of fixing their mistakes?

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> > > It was their first game, obviously it’s not going to be perfect.
> >
> > Didn’t have to be perfect, it just had to be good and it wasn’t for me and many others.
> >
> >
> >
> > > 343 have more feedback, more staff including Bravo, better hardware to work with and more experience. I’m not saying this game’s going to be the best one in the series, I’m just saying that we should judge it fairly, by the quality of it, not by the mistakes that they made on the previous game. At least they had the guts to come out and admit that they made mistakes. <mark>Surely acknowledging your mistakes will prevent them from happening in the future, no?</mark>
> >
> > Not necessarily.
>
> <mark>I seriously doubt 343 are stupid enough to repeat a mistake that they acknowledged.</mark> Why? They need to make money, and they won’t if they make the same mistakes again and lose their fanbase will they? You’re making 343 out to be stupid and blind to their own mistakes. Riddle me this, why would they acknowledge their mistakes and say that they’ll do much better if they have no intentions of fixing their mistakes?

To be fair, they did repeat the deviations that Reach started, and expanded upon them in ways that didn’t make them better per say…

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> I seriously doubt 343 are stupid enough to repeat a mistake that they acknowledged. Why? They need to make money, and they won’t if they make the same mistakes again and lose their fanbase will they? You’re making 343 out to be stupid and blind to their own mistakes. Riddle me this, why would they acknowledge their mistakes and say that they’ll do much better if they have no intentions of fixing their mistakes?

To me they seem to have a hard time understanding what people want. It took them a while to get the red X to mark a death right. Sarah Palmer is one of the most hated characters in Halo 4 and yet apparently we all wanted a Palmer comic and game. Their efforts with classic settings, as mentioned above, have been hit and miss and too little too late.

They can admit they messed up, whether or not they truly learned anything remains to be seen.

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> > > It was their first game, obviously it’s not going to be perfect.
> >
> > Didn’t have to be perfect, it just had to be good and it wasn’t for me and many others.
> >
> >
> >
> > > 343 have more feedback, more staff including Bravo, better hardware to work with and more experience. I’m not saying this game’s going to be the best one in the series, I’m just saying that we should judge it fairly, by the quality of it, not by the mistakes that they made on the previous game. At least they had the guts to come out and admit that they made mistakes. <mark>Surely acknowledging your mistakes will prevent them from happening in the future, no?</mark>
> >
> > Not necessarily.
>
> I seriously doubt 343 are stupid enough to repeat a mistake that they acknowledged. Why? They need to make money, and they won’t if they make the same mistakes again and lose their fanbase will they? You’re making 343 out to be stupid and blind to their own mistakes. Riddle me this, why would they acknowledge their mistakes and say that they’ll do much better if they have no intentions of fixing their mistakes?

Remember the Reach TU? Remember how people were so happy that Squad Slayer didn’t have super horrible bloom and no AL, then they changed the name to Super Slayer and brought back AL -Yoink!- just about everyone off?

Remember how people were mad with Active Camo, Jetpack, and Sprint in Reach? Yeah, all of those made it into Halo 4 with next to no changes, Sprint even became a base ability.

Also, let’s not forget the genius playlist consolidation of Reach, where there is an entire Playlist for a single Firefight map. Just because it was popular right when it came out, but nobody thought that it would be dumb to keep around a Playlist with 1 Anniversary FF map. They also removed Action Sack, which has led to tons of people asking, “Where did Action Sack go?” whenever they put Reach back into their Xbox.

The point here is that they have repeated and done just stupid things that anybody should’ve been able to realize were bad ideas.

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> > I seriously doubt 343 are stupid enough to repeat a mistake that they acknowledged. Why? They need to make money, and they won’t if they make the same mistakes again and lose their fanbase will they? You’re making 343 out to be stupid and blind to their own mistakes. Riddle me this, why would they acknowledge their mistakes and say that they’ll do much better if they have no intentions of fixing their mistakes?
>
> To me they seem to have a hard time understanding what people want. It took them a while to get the red X to mark a death right. Sarah Palmer is one of the most hated characters in Halo 4 and yet apparently we all wanted a Palmer comic and game. Their efforts with classic settings, as mentioned above, have been hit and miss and too little too late.
>
> They can admit they messed up, whether or not they truly learned anything remains to be seen.

But I don’t see why they would repeat the mistakes they made if that means losing their fanbase and not earning any money.