Getting Unscoped on Hit...

So I’m sure PRETTY MUCH EVERYONE who wasn’t around for any of Bungie’s Halo FPS titles is pretty annoyed that 343 decided to reintroduce this feature for Halo Infinite. The feature of getting knocked out of your zoomed in aim whenever you get hurt. This feature doesn’t exist for ANY other FPS games that I’m aware of.

And I totally understand that 343 wants to appease the nostalgia of the folks who have been around since CE, but I believe this is not a good move for eeeeeeveryone else. Don’t we want to welcome new players who are used to other FPS games? Reasons like this are why Halo games always end up with less than 10K active players within a few months.

So 343, please, I know you’re trying your hardest and being super careful to make everyone happy with your development decisions, and I know that that’s a really tough balancing act and I appreciate your care in doing this, thank you all, but I think removing this old legacy quirk feature would be good for the vast majority of players.

Probably only a small portion of us are glad to see this feature return. I know I’m not, and I’ve been around since Halo 2. Please everyone give your thoughts on this topic so we can find out if this dev choice needs to stay dead or not. Thank you!

Do you think its a good choice for select weapons or no weapons at all? Should a sniper be able to take on a hail of bullets calmly while staying scoped in from afar the entire match? Or is it good to knock the sniper out of scope when hitting them?

There’s some pros and cons to this. Halo has many fights that take place at hip fire range. Halo fans ADORE this about halo. Modern FPS games play absolutely terrible and I have no idea why people even enjoy them.

Halo

  • hip fire all day. Have fun. No reticle widening consequences
  • you can move as well during hip fire. No reticle widening
  • not happy enough? Here. Take a jump. No consequence to your reticle at all.
  • you can even get a head shot buddy. You aimed for the head, you got it. Head shot.

Oh crap. You scoped in!
Halo

  • you can move at normal speed. Have fun.
  • you got hit…get constantly unscoped…move spartan! The hell are you doing sitting in 1 spot the entire match! You’re a spartan for crying outloud. Get up and do something for a change or be knocked out your scope into oblivion.

Other FPS games

  • hey hey hey…WHAT…are YOU…DOING!? how DARE you hip fire…you aren’t hitting ANYTHING with that. Heres some terrible reticle spread.
  • how DARE you move and try to fire your weapon without scoping in. Here’s even MORE reticle spread.
  • don’t you do it…don’t you JUMP!..here’s even MOREEEEE reticle spread!!!

You scoped in! :+1: alriiiiight you FINALLY GET IT KID!
-turtle up in that safe space buddy because your strafe means ABSOLUTELY nothing in this game. Heres some accuracy for your cause! Stay scoped in! Don’t let go!!

  • SNAIL TRIGGER ACTIVATED. base movement speed cut in half or even more! Who needs to move!!! Grab some marshmallows and Graham crackers bud! We’re settin up camp today!

You get the point. Idc what other games do man. They feel terrible to me. Halo will do fine without adopting more and more of that bad crap. Only take in what is good and would work for halo. Maybe certain weapons balance better with or without the unscope.

nah, you have to realize with Halos ttk and general gun play that this kind of system is needed. Halo is very much a hipfire focused game given there is not buff to aiming when zooming (outside of visual clarity and a bit finer aiming sens). A majority of engagements happen at close to mid range where ADS is not needed with any of the guns. Once you get into a range inwhich you are ADSing (with precision weapon at longer ranges), there needs to be balance so that you dont dominate everyone.

You will inherently have an edge against players at a range, but there should be a way for them to defend themselves and given Halos longer TTK, it needs to be more then them kiloing you first. As someone mentioned prior, if a sniper can hard scope, get hit and not be de-scoped, given Halos ttk they would dominate any long range fight. They still do, but if your not quick with your shot, you can be countered which is the point. That paired with lens flare of the sniper balances out the power of the sniper and even pushes players to not just use it at super long ranges. The sniper is effective at just about any range in halo (much harder at close range) which is drastically different then other fps games.

Sure those games dont have descope, but you also die in .5 seconds on average regardless of the weapon. The only weapons that really kill that quick in Halo are power weapons. So descope is used to balance out long range fights so that fights then shift to that mid range engagement while having sporadic long range fights.

Please no thank you, ranged weapons dominate enough as is, descope is the only thing that balances them.

343 didn’t have de-scoping on damage in H4, and it was absolutely awful. Completely changed the combat to almost always be mid range or farther, and there was little movement around the map or incentive to close in on an opponent. It also made the sniper so powerful it’s crazy.

I actually think it’s ridiculous that the AR and Pistol don’t get de-scoped in Infinite. I think it’s the main reason the AR is being perceived as so powerful, since it can just keep BR’s and Commandos out of their scope with no real counter opportunity for punishment.

Lol, goodbye.

I’m going to address one thing: the suggestion that “reasons like this” are why Halo fails to retain players is 1000% ludicrous. See Halo 2/3.

> 2533274842046585;2:
> Do you think its a good choice for select weapons or no weapons at all? Should a sniper be able to take on a hail of bullets calmly while staying scoped in from afar the entire match? Or is it good to knock the sniper out of scope when hitting them?

There are better ways to solve this though than getting descoped, such as adding some recoil when getting hit. As it stands, you can effectively neutralize a sniper across the entire map with the sidekick, an AR, or as I experienced in a previous match a chain turret. It really doesn’t matter if you kill or do real damage to them because you can just outright prevent them from aiming as long as you glance them. Couple this with how difficult it already is to hit a moving target at range, and that precision weapons now have a glint revealing their position when scoped, and you’re really lowering the precision weapon’s ability to be effective at range like they’re supposed to. If a person is scoped in at close range, they’re already going to have a hard enough time aiming and will probably die from the person using a close range weapon or hip firing anyway.

> 2533274839599073;1:
> So I’m sure PRETTY MUCH EVERYONE who wasn’t around for any of Bungie’s Halo FPS titles is pretty annoyed that 343 decided to reintroduce this feature for Halo Infinite. The feature of getting knocked out of your zoomed in aim whenever you get hurt. This feature doesn’t exist for ANY other FPS games that I’m aware of.
>
> And I totally understand that 343 wants to appease the nostalgia of the folks who have been around since CE, but I believe this is not a good move for eeeeeeveryone else. Don’t we want to welcome new players who are used to other FPS games? Reasons like this are why Halo games always end up with less than 10K active players within a few months.
>
> So 343, please, I know you’re trying your hardest and being super careful to make everyone happy with your development decisions, and I know that that’s a really tough balancing act and I appreciate your care in doing this, thank you all, but I think removing this old legacy quirk feature would be good for the vast majority of players.
>
> Probably only a small portion of us are glad to see this feature return. I know I’m not, and I’ve been around since Halo 2. Please everyone give your thoughts on this topic so we can find out if this dev choice needs to stay dead or not. Thank you!

It was in the last game so its hardly new to 343i fans and it doesn’t happen to the non precision weapon.
Also how does removing skill gap and balancing mechanics unique to Halo help halo stand out from its competitors.
You seem to be advocating homogenisation for the sake of appealing to players who already get catered to by titles that halo can’t compete with without abandoning much of its DNA and unique selling points.
I am glad to see it return and if you go read halo5 reviews you will see many feature this mechanic as an improvement over halo 4.

> 2533274827885370;7:
> > 2533274842046585;2:
> > Do you think its a good choice for select weapons or no weapons at all? Should a sniper be able to take on a hail of bullets calmly while staying scoped in from afar the entire match? Or is it good to knock the sniper out of scope when hitting them?
>
> There are better ways to solve this though than getting descoped, such as adding some recoil when getting hit. As it stands, you can effectively neutralize a sniper across the entire map with the sidekick, an AR, or as I experienced in a previous match a chain turret. It really doesn’t matter if you kill or do real damage to them because you can just outright prevent them from aiming as long as you glance them. Couple this with how difficult it already is to hit a moving target at range, and that precision weapons now have a glint revealing their position when scoped, and you’re really lowering the precision weapon’s ability to be effective at range like they’re supposed to. If a person is scoped in at close range, they’re already going to have a hard enough time aiming and will probably die from the person using a close range weapon or hip firing anyway.

So your answer is to add in flinch?..man…do we really even need to have this discussion? I feel like flinch is beating a dead horse at this point. Perhaps you weren’t around when it was talked about in large though.

I agree with the OP. De-scoping is a stupid relic of the past. If 343 were to only stick to things that were purely Halo then we wouldn’t have sprinting or slide or clambering. Think about how horribly dated the franchise would feel without those things now. Either get rid of de-scoping or just don’t bother allowing certain weapons to ADS.

> 2533274839599073;1:
> So I’m sure PRETTY MUCH EVERYONE who wasn’t around for any of Bungie’s Halo FPS titles is pretty annoyed that 343 decided to reintroduce this feature for Halo Infinite. The feature of getting knocked out of your zoomed in aim whenever you get hurt. This feature doesn’t exist for ANY other FPS games that I’m aware of.
>
> And I totally understand that 343 wants to appease the nostalgia of the folks who have been around since CE, but I believe this is not a good move for eeeeeeveryone else. Don’t we want to welcome new players who are used to other FPS games? Reasons like this are why Halo games always end up with less than 10K active players within a few months.
>
> So 343, please, I know you’re trying your hardest and being super careful to make everyone happy with your development decisions, and I know that that’s a really tough balancing act and I appreciate your care in doing this, thank you all, but I think removing this old legacy quirk feature would be good for the vast majority of players.
>
> Probably only a small portion of us are glad to see this feature return. I know I’m not, and I’ve been around since Halo 2. Please everyone give your thoughts on this topic so we can find out if this dev choice needs to stay dead or not. Thank you!

It was in halo 5 LOL did you not play 5?

De-scope is in for more than just nostalgia. You mention Halo is the only game right now that does this, but Halo is also one of the few arena shooters out there, which means equal weapon starts, power weapon spawns, longer (1 second+ average) killtimes, arena-sized maps, and emphasis on movement (the dance) in combat compared to who shoots first. I’d be interested if there is another game that has all These features in place.

Battle Royale games don’t de-scope because most engagements are long range due to the nature of large maps and laser accurate weapons. Most BR games (and to an extent most MP shooters) also don’t have weapon sandboxes as diverse as Halo. Halo on the other hand starts you with closer range weapons, and you can pick up longer range weapons in the map. Typically these longer range weapons can kill faster than your starting weapons, so weapons can de-scope other weapons as a way to suppress long range weapons and make sure starting load outs don’t get stomped on with no chance to retaliate.

It’s gonna turn off a lot of new players from what I’ve experienced and seen. Seems og players enjoy this over brand new players to halo. Personally I hate it. Things like the sniper are supposed to be a power weapon let it be op :man_shrugging: More reason to fight for it.

> 2533274839599073;1:
> So I’m sure PRETTY MUCH EVERYONE who wasn’t around for any of Bungie’s Halo FPS titles is pretty annoyed that 343 decided to reintroduce this feature for Halo Infinite.

so nobody the devs should be concerned about placating. these players were experiencing halo at its worst.

> 2533274842046585;2:
> Do you think its a good choice for select weapons or no weapons at all? Should a sniper be able to take on a hail of bullets calmly while staying scoped in from afar the entire match? Or is it good to knock the sniper out of scope when hitting them?
>
> There’s some pros and cons to this. Halo has many fights that take place at hip fire range. Halo fans ADORE this about halo. Modern FPS games play absolutely terrible and I have no idea why people even enjoy them.
>
> Halo
> - hip fire all day. Have fun. No reticle widening consequences
> - you can move as well during hip fire. No reticle widening
> - not happy enough? Here. Take a jump. No consequence to your reticle at all.
> - you can even get a head shot buddy. You aimed for the head, you got it. Head shot.
>
> Oh crap. You scoped in!
> Halo
> - you can move at normal speed. Have fun.
> - you got hit…get constantly unscoped…move spartan! The hell are you doing sitting in 1 spot the entire match! You’re a spartan for crying outloud. Get up and do something for a change or be knocked out your scope into oblivion.
>
> Other FPS games
> - hey hey hey…WHAT…are YOU…DOING!? how DARE you hip fire…you aren’t hitting ANYTHING with that. Heres some terrible reticle spread.
> - how DARE you move and try to fire your weapon without scoping in. Here’s even MORE reticle spread.
> - don’t you do it…don’t you JUMP!..here’s even MOREEEEE reticle spread!!!
>
> You scoped in! :+1: alriiiiight you FINALLY GET IT KID!
> -turtle up in that safe space buddy because your strafe means ABSOLUTELY nothing in this game. Heres some accuracy for your cause! Stay scoped in! Don’t let go!!
> - SNAIL TRIGGER ACTIVATED. base movement speed cut in half or even more! Who needs to move!!! Grab some marshmallows and Graham crackers bud! We’re settin up camp today!
>
> You get the point. Idc what other games do man. They feel terrible to me. Halo will do fine without adopting more and more of that bad crap. Only take in what is good and would work for halo. Maybe certain weapons balance better with or without the unscope.

considering this sniper isn’t actually aiming down a sight and instead utilizing a borderline sentient AI to magnify the HUD in his multi million dollar suit of armor made from unobtainium housing the body of a genetically engineered and enhanced human being with the muscle density of a 2500lb gorilla and athleticism to match…

I do expect him to be able to maintain zoom
tl;dr Yes

Descoping helps a lot, it lets you charge at power weapons with some hope of actually killing them instead of getting your head snipped off because they can stay scoped with no flinch.

> 2535453527473776;15:
> > 2533274842046585;2:
> > Do you think its a good choice for select weapons or no weapons at all? Should a sniper be able to take on a hail of bullets calmly while staying scoped in from afar the entire match? Or is it good to knock the sniper out of scope when hitting them?
> >
> > There’s some pros and cons to this. Halo has many fights that take place at hip fire range. Halo fans ADORE this about halo. Modern FPS games play absolutely terrible and I have no idea why people even enjoy them.
> >
> > Halo
> > - hip fire all day. Have fun. No reticle widening consequences
> > - you can move as well during hip fire. No reticle widening
> > - not happy enough? Here. Take a jump. No consequence to your reticle at all.
> > - you can even get a head shot buddy. You aimed for the head, you got it. Head shot.
> >
> > Oh crap. You scoped in!
> > Halo
> > - you can move at normal speed. Have fun.
> > - you got hit…get constantly unscoped…move spartan! The hell are you doing sitting in 1 spot the entire match! You’re a spartan for crying outloud. Get up and do something for a change or be knocked out your scope into oblivion.
> >
> > Other FPS games
> > - hey hey hey…WHAT…are YOU…DOING!? how DARE you hip fire…you aren’t hitting ANYTHING with that. Heres some terrible reticle spread.
> > - how DARE you move and try to fire your weapon without scoping in. Here’s even MORE reticle spread.
> > - don’t you do it…don’t you JUMP!..here’s even MOREEEEE reticle spread!!!
> >
> > You scoped in! :+1: alriiiiight you FINALLY GET IT KID!
> > -turtle up in that safe space buddy because your strafe means ABSOLUTELY nothing in this game. Heres some accuracy for your cause! Stay scoped in! Don’t let go!!
> > - SNAIL TRIGGER ACTIVATED. base movement speed cut in half or even more! Who needs to move!!! Grab some marshmallows and Graham crackers bud! We’re settin up camp today!
> >
> > You get the point. Idc what other games do man. They feel terrible to me. Halo will do fine without adopting more and more of that bad crap. Only take in what is good and would work for halo. Maybe certain weapons balance better with or without the unscope.
>
> considering this sniper isn’t actually aiming down a sight and instead utilizing a borderline sentient AI to magnify the HUD in his multi million dollar suit of armor made from unobtainium housing the body of a genetically engineered and enhanced human being with the muscle density of a 2500lb gorilla and athleticism to match…
>
> I do expect him to be able to maintain zoom
> tl;dr Yes

Lore =/= gameplay

Annoyed? Halo 4 experimented with flinch instead of unscope and it did not go over well at ALL. BTB was literally just people sitting as far back as they could 5 shotting eachother. And the Snipers went from being something you could check, to something you should avoid challenging at all costs.

The only problems with unscope right now, are that the smart link weapons don’t get unscoped, which creates a weird situation where youll be well outside an unscoped BR or Commando’s red reticle range, and unable to challenge an AR or Sidekick because they kicked you out of scope and now you don’t have aim assist and they do. And the issues that arise with M&K not relying on aim assist, thus making their guns simply better than controller players when neither of you are scoped past those unscoped red reticle ranges.

The solutions are simple. Smart Link weapons need to unscope when hit, and M&K players and controller players need to be separated in Matchmaking.

No

> 2533274827885370;7:
> > 2533274842046585;2:
> > Do you think its a good choice for select weapons or no weapons at all? Should a sniper be able to take on a hail of bullets calmly while staying scoped in from afar the entire match? Or is it good to knock the sniper out of scope when hitting them?
>
> There are better ways to solve this though than getting descoped, such as adding some recoil when getting hit. As it stands, you can effectively neutralize a sniper across the entire map with the sidekick, an AR, or as I experienced in a previous match a chain turret. It really doesn’t matter if you kill or do real damage to them because you can just outright prevent them from aiming as long as you glance them. Couple this with how difficult it already is to hit a moving target at range, and that precision weapons now have a glint revealing their position when scoped, and you’re really lowering the precision weapon’s ability to be effective at range like they’re supposed to. If a person is scoped in at close range, they’re already going to have a hard enough time aiming and will probably die from the person using a close range weapon or hip firing anyway.

It’s not always about killing the other player. Using a close range weapon against a sniper provides many advantages outside of just raw damage:

  • As you said, you can prevent them from taking aim because of descope. If the sniper really wants to get a shot off, then they’ll just have to reposition. This can force them out of a position of power and expose them. Counter-play. - Forcing a de-scope can cause a player to miss a shot, wasting a bullet. This isn’t COD where you can spawn with whatever weapon you want. In Halo, you have to race or fight for a power weapon, but that’s only half of the fight. A power weapon is only useful if you can use it. A player is not entitled to kills simply because they picked it up. If you force a sniper to miss their shots as you close the distance, guess what? You have 2 weapons that are in optimal range while you opponent has only 1 gun and an empty sniper rifle. Counter-play. - If you’ve played other Halos (except 4), then you should know how oppressive long range weapons were. De-scope didn’t stop them then, and it won’t stop them in Infinite. - If a player is scoped in at close range, they deserve to die from an enemy using a close range weapon or hip firing.Like I said, it’s not always about killing the other player. Sometimes, you just gotta keep them from killing you.