Get Rid of Ordnance Drops!

I read a thread saying that the loadouts should be removed entirely. Well this is what I think about it and I want to see what everyone else thinks too:

The loadouts are fine people!!! If you are good, you will always pick a dmr or br. The thing they should get rid of entirely is ORDNANCE DROPS! How many times you lose because the game is close and the other team gets like three binary rifles and you get a sticky det (or something that is very limited in range)? This has happened to me plenty of times and I lose because of it. Personally when that happens, I’m not that dumb to charge in. I pick my battles; however, the vast majority of people are dumb and charge in with an assault rifle in an open map.

Simply put, the class system is not OP at all and is well balanced. Yes some abilities or perks are better than others on certain maps, but why not use them on the right map instead of picking the less suited one and complaining about it? (Example: wheelman is good for btb and resupply on slayer) The problem is ordance drops. They are completely random and tend to favor the losing team when it comes to the “big guns”.

343 if you are reading this, I know you have some weapons that have specific times that they drop but please put back the original halo weapon respawn times and forget ordnance drops. It made the game sooooo much better and more rewarding when you have map control.

> I read a thread saying that the loadouts should be removed entirely. Well this is what I think about it and I want to see what everyone else thinks too:
>
> The loadouts are fine people!!! If you are good, you will always pick a dmr or br. The thing they should get rid of entirely is ORDNANCE DROPS! How many times you lose because the game is close and the other team gets like three binary rifles and you get a sticky det (or something that is very limited in range)? This has happened to me plenty of times and I lose because of it. Personally when that happens, I’m not that dumb to charge in. I pick my battles; however, the vast majority of people are dumb and charge in with an assault rifle in an open map.
>
> Simply put, the class system is not OP at all and is well balanced. Yes some abilities or perks are better than others on certain maps, but why not use them on the right map instead of picking the less suited one and complaining about it? (Example: wheelman is good for btb and resupply on slayer) The problem is ordance drops. They are completely random and tend to favor the losing team when it comes to the “big guns”.
>
> 343 if you are reading this, I know you have some weapons that have specific times that they drop but please put back the original halo weapon respawn times and forget ordnance drops. It made the game sooooo much better and more rewarding when you have map control.

Since you simply copy/pasted this post from your comment in the topic you mentioned, I have a question for you: Do you really believe that loadouts are perfectly fine? The options they allow in their current form are cluttered and don’t encourage/enable equal starts (please note that “equal” and “identical” are not the same thing). Its true that Personal Ordinance is detrimental to multiplayer, but its not the only factor. Plasma Pistol/Grenades, N00B combos, spawning with a 1-shot-kill weapon, etc… Does that really sound fair or balanced to you?

Extensive loadouts work for progressive unlock games like Call of Duty and Battlefield because they aren’t mean’t to be equal. They are mean’t to reward players who play more/longer with better equipment. This isn’t how Halo has been designed to play. That isn’t to say that loadouts can’t be in Halo, but they shouldn’t be extensive to the point where they change base abilities/ grant new abilities (Armor Mods/ Armor Abilities at spawn). Halo’s loadouts should be more refined, allowing different but equal playstyles to be possible without making the core abilities and limitations of players at spawn change. It makes the game chaotic and essentially a moshpit, as you never know what you’re going to go up against in an encounter. This is also a reason to remove Personal Ordinance from Multiplayer, but I think that it could still return in other modes like Spartan Ops, Firefight, and even possibly be added to some degree in Campaign.

Been saying this for a while:

Keep loadouts (balance them better), remove personal ordinance (forever), AA’s as map pickups except sprint and finally maps made perfecty for all this.

Done.

The only thing i have a problem with is the bolt shot. Everything else is fine to me. When it comes to noob-comboing: it’s been in the game since H2. It’s old news and most people don’t use it because most people suck at it. Grenades are not a big deal. They are grenades. They go BOOM. But the one shot kill weapon has to go. The bolt shot has more range than the shogun! Which is CRAZY!

But to be completely honest, I only use wheelman or resupply with ammo and/or br and dmr with the shield. For me, those perks and whatnot are the best in the whole game. I see the other abilities as more of like an(idk if this is the right word) assist for the weaker players. i dont need to see you through walls cuz i know you are there. I dont need the wetwork one because I can hold my own against pretty much anybody. If you can see me, come get me. i dont need the steady aim because I have dealt without it since h2 multiplayer. The locked in zoom they introduced in h4 is OP to me and is waaaay to easy to kill from distance. And so on and so forth.

The weapons are not varied at all because most players stick to the same br or dmr( and if not the assault rifle) and frags and plasmas like all the other halos so that part of your argument is void.

Noob combo existed in bck in h2. get used to it. That part of your argument is void.

The abilities are cool and not OP at all and put a spin on the awesome multiplayer. So what if he can jet pack or be invisible? They are going to die in the air or looking like a ghost either way. Part of that argument is void.

Spawn with one shot kill weapon: now that is some BS. That should be a drop not a secondary.

> The only thing i have a problem with is the bolt shot. Everything else is fine to me. When it comes to noob-comboing: it’s been in the game since H2. It’s old news and most people don’t use it because most people suck at it. Grenades are not a big deal. They are grenades. They go BOOM. But the one shot kill weapon has to go. The bolt shot has more range than the shogun! Which is CRAZY!
>
> But to be completely honest, I only use wheelman or resupply with ammo and/or br and dmr with the shield. For me, those perks and whatnot are the best in the whole game. I see the other abilities as more of like an(idk if this is the right word) assist for the weaker players. i dont need to see you through walls cuz i know you are there. I dont need the wetwork one because I can hold my own against pretty much anybody. If you can see me, come get me. i dont need the steady aim because I have dealt without it since h2 multiplayer. The locked in zoom they introduced in h4 is OP to me and is waaaay to easy to kill from distance. And so on and so forth.
>
> The weapons are not varied at all because most players stick to the same br or dmr( and if not the assault rifle) and frags and plasmas like all the other halos so that part of your argument is void.
>
> Noob combo existed in bck in h2. get used to it. That part of your argument is void.
>
> The abilities are cool and not OP at all and put a spin on the awesome multiplayer. So what if he can jet pack or be invisible? They are going to die in the air or looking like a ghost either way. Part of that argument is void.
>
> Spawn with one shot kill weapon: now that is some BS. That should be a drop not a secondary.

Oh, you’ve been able to spawn with plasma grenades and the BR/Plasma Pistol combo since Halo 2? Wow, I’ve missed something then…

This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not flame or attack other members. This includes stat-flaming.

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

Not saying that. I am saying that plasmas were everywhere and so where plasma pistols. I looked at your service record and you think everything is broken because your k/d is barely a 1. Get better at the game and then see how balanced the game is and realize pretty much all the abilities and whatnot are just for the weaker players like yourself and do not affect players like me. That is why I do not find the system they have now a problem except for the ordnance drops and the bolt shot as a secondary.

Saying all of this, I understand why they put in ordnance drops but the mechanic is broken. If they fix it and balance it (if the game is close, dont drop heavy hitting instant kill weapons) then it will be okay.

>

This is my secondary profile and I haven’t had much time to play Halo 4 since I’ve started college, so I don’t think its really relevant to bring something like that into this discussion.

Regardless of whether or not plasma pistols/grenades have been available in the past, players couldn’t spawn with them. That is a big factor that you shouldn’t just dismiss so quickly.

As for the perks and AAs at spawn, they make Halo 4 a class-based shooter more than the equal-start arena shooter that made Halo multiplayer popular/successful in the past.

I’m in college too and since I have been playing, which sounds like, as long as you have, you should not really be caring about the plasmas and noob combos. They are easy to dodge or prepare for. Usually if i die from one of them, it is usually my fault for being in the open or not dodging the plasma. Play more defensively like Halo is supposed to be played (fight for an area that will help out your team then hold it by constantly moving around in the area and spawn trap) and you will notice that the game is soooo much easier than running around like a chicken with it head cut off like in CoD and Battlefield. Halo requires MUCH more patience and teamwork than those two.

And the abilities really only affect the weaker players. i don’t care if you have extra grenades, do more damage with them, have more ammo, have steady aim, have a jet pack,have a regen-field… etc. If i want you dead, you are going to die.

> I’m in college too and since I have been playing, which sounds like, as long as you have, you should not really be caring about the plasmas and noob combos. They are easy to dodge or prepare for. Usually if i die from one of them, it is usually my fault for being in the open or not dodging the plasma. Play more defensively like Halo is supposed to be played (fight for an area that will help out your team then hold it by constantly moving around in the area and spawn trap) and you will notice that the game is soooo much easier than running around like a chicken with it head cut off like in CoD and Battlefield. Halo requires MUCH more patience and teamwork than those two.

How do you justify the effects these additions (Plasma Pistol/grenades, for instance) have on vehicular combat? They make Warthogs nearly useless, as the EMP follows vehicles much more effectively than infantry.

Also, as a side note, let’s not preach to each other about how to play the game. This discussion is about why loadouts are/aren’t balanced or fit into Halo’s style of play and why.

> And the abilities really only affect the weaker players. i don’t care if you have extra grenades, do more damage with them, have more ammo, have steady aim, have a jet pack,have a regen-field… etc. <mark>If i want you dead, you are going to die.</mark>

You really are conceited… You realize that, don’t you?

>

I’m 100% in agreement with Ghost of Maine.

Please do not attack people’s stats on these forums. It is against forum rules and amounts to nothing more than an ad hominem attack besides.

“You are bad which means you are wrong.” It doesn’t work that way.

I’m fine with perks and loadouts so long as they remove the things that I think differentiate enough to undermine the spirit of equal starts.

At that point you are pretty much left with no perks (since they are passive and can only constitute minor changes in my vision they might as well be either removed or integrated to base attributes). Loadouts would be stripped down to selecting a precision weapon and an assault rifle as a secondary weapon while narrowing the difference between the different members of these families.

I was just referencing the stats. I am not saying he is wrong because he is not as good as me. Even 343 said the perks are not going to affect the better players before the game came out. I was just using the stats to say you cannot judge a games mechanics if you do not understand them or use them properly. That is why people complain about things in games because they do not understand how to use them to their full potential. Yes I was complaining too but they are actual things that really affect the game and not under my control. (The thing i orginally complained about affected the outcome of the game not 1v1 battles- close game ordnance drops that drop heavy hitting weapons) The classes really do not do much at all when it comes to the actual gameplay. if you know what you are doing than the perks are easy as 1,2,3. Pick the best ones that fit your play style or that help your weaker skills like they were intended to do and there is nothing to complain about. Having a palsma grenade or pistol, or any other things in the game that are the palyers’ choice, are very easy to overcome.

When it comes down to it, Halo will always be more about skill and brains more than anything else. Having a plasma rather than a frag, a plasma pistol rather than a regular pistol, a shield rather than a jet pack all make the game fun and different with every encounter. Knowing how to deal with the situation is the key.

With the vehicles, just play smart and do not rush in ever! Simple as that. that is how people rack up kills in the 40s per match.

The only thing is take out the bolt shot as a default secondary. Make it a drop and tweak the ordnance drops and the game will be perfect. O and the palsma should not kill the warthog in one hit when it takes a rocket launcher two.

My fault that i seemed well… like a "donkey"hole. I just hear people complain about halo and how its too hard and how the classes ruined the game. Not really. You have to adapt and once you get better, the game gets easier and the perks are really just there to be there and not a major factor in the game.

I notice the weaker players complain about the classes while the better players complain about the ordnance drops

> I notice the weaker players complain about the classes while the better players complain about the ordnance drops

I’ll happily complain about both.

It strikes me as fundamentally absurd to say that the ability to turn invisible or fly doesn’t really affect game play. That being able to spawn with weapons tailor made to destroy vehicles isn’t a big deal.

The argument that these abilities don’t work beyond the realm of skill doesn’t hold to me when there is an ability that very literally lets you see through walls.

Mods that allow infinite sprint, counter emp, and others are more than minor tweaks based on player preference. If they are important enough that they are needed, then make them baseline. If they are weak enough that they don’t really matter, then just scrap the whole thing.

The flaws in ordinance are so painfully intuitive to me that I don’t feel the need to build on the obvious arguments any more.

And just as an aside, a k/d of 1 regardless of who does or doesn’t have it isn’t indicative of being bad. It means your record is pretty explicitly average.

> The only thing i have a problem with is the bolt shot. Everything else is fine to me. When it comes to noob-comboing: it’s been in the game since H2. It’s old news and most people don’t use it because most people suck at it. Grenades are not a big deal. They are grenades. They go BOOM. But the one shot kill weapon has to go. <mark>The bolt shot has more range than the shogun! Which is CRAZY!</mark>
>
> But to be completely honest, I only use wheelman or resupply with ammo and/or br and dmr with the shield. For me, those perks and whatnot are the best in the whole game. I see the other abilities as more of like an(idk if this is the right word) assist for the weaker players. i dont need to see you through walls cuz i know you are there. I dont need the wetwork one because I can hold my own against pretty much anybody. If you can see me, come get me. i dont need the steady aim because I have dealt without it since h2 multiplayer. The locked in zoom they introduced in h4 is OP to me and is waaaay to easy to kill from distance. And so on and so forth.
>
> The weapons are not varied at all because most players stick to the same br or dmr( and if not the assault rifle) and frags and plasmas like all the other halos so that part of your argument is void.
>
> Noob combo existed in bck in h2. get used to it. That part of your argument is void.
>
> The abilities are cool and not OP at all and put a spin on the awesome multiplayer. So what if he can jet pack or be invisible? They are going to die in the air or looking like a ghost either way. Part of that argument is void.
>
> Spawn with one shot kill weapon: now that is some BS. That should be a drop not a secondary.

You sure about that?

See I want to keep the drops only make them more balanced. And yes it can be done. Get rid of the power weapons, those should be on the map already and make it small things like ammo, non power weapons and grenades, and maybe some power boosters. The fact that you can be chasing someone and they drop a ordance when the round a corner and pick up a launcher is not that fun and needs to go ( of course they could round a corner and pcik up a launcher off the map and it would end the same way but)

I think the possible solution I have thought off is a much better improvement for POD.

POD can return but ONLY POWERUPS to be available as choices.

  1. Overshield
  2. Active Camo (No longer AA)
  3. Speed Boost
  4. Damage Boost

Everyone gets the same choices, there are no Power Weapons to choose from. This is the most balanced POD you can have. And it doesn’t break game-play and most importantly IS NOT RANDOM. You know what your going to get.

I think this is a great FIX for them.

Or remove POD, but when you find a Powerup on the map and collect it, you get the above choices and like a POD, can choose when to call it in.

This would make Powerup more powerful, as you can choose what you want and when to deploy it. Making the areas where Powerups spawn worth holding. Adding to the Arena Shooter Experience.

I think POD are cool but needs evolve. How they currently are in Halo 4 is complete FAIL.

ALL AA and Weapons need to be MAP PICKUPS. This returns Halo to an Arena Shooter.

Also PERKs need to be removed.

I completely agree with this statement from RavensHa10:

> If they are important enough that they are needed, then make them baseline. If they are weak enough that they don’t really matter, then just scrap the whole thing.

I actually enjoy the concept of personal ordnance.

Although I do think it should be restricted to:
the less powerful equipment items
grenades
ammo

That, way weapons and the more powerful equipment items will still contested for on the map. And there won’t be an abundance of power weapons on the maps, eliminating the need for shorter weapon despawn times.

> See I want to keep the drops only make them more balanced. And yes it can be done. Get rid of the power weapons, those should be on the map already and make it small things like ammo, non power weapons and grenades, and maybe some power boosters. The fact that you can be chasing someone and they drop a ordance when the round a corner and pick up a launcher is not that fun and needs to go ( of course they could round a corner and pcik up a launcher off the map and it would end the same way but)

Yeah, if ordinance is toned down to where it isn’t game breaking, I don’t have a problem.

I just think that there isn’t much left there once you scale it back far enough to satisfy me.

Loadouts affects me and destroyes the sandbox, and I am almost 100% sure that I am better than you.

I complain about loadouts just as much as I complain about Personal Ordnance, Ordnance drops and sprint being there.