Gameplay Mechanics Discussion

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

Hello all, I was bored tonight and got to thinking about how Halo has changed over the years. Many mechanics have been altered between games, yet others have remained largely unchanged. I thought I’d bring up a few of these changes for discussion (as well as throw around a few ideas) and see where it goes from there. So here we go:

  1. Health Packs - Considered an archaic design choice by many, the need to pick up health has been in three out of the seven FPS Halo games. It was once the norm to scavenge maps to replenish health after a close encounter, but has become increasingly rare over the years. After recently playing the 2016 DOOM game, I wonder why exactly the transition to regenerative health in H2 occurred and whether or not it was the best choice. Couldn’t the need to move to certain areas of the map to regain health be used to better reward map control and more efficient kills? What drawbacks do the inclusion of health packs bring?

  2. Reloading Mechanics - For starters, let me say that I like how many Covenant weapons have a heat-up , rather than simply a given number of shots fired before it forces an intermission. Not only does it make them feel less human, but it adds an interesting dynamic to their use (adds importance to pacing shots without adding a random factor like bloom does). It makes the more traditional magazine-based weapons almost too simple to use, as there’s very little to their operation. An idea I’ve toyed with in the past has been adding “active reloading” (a la Gears of War) to magazine-fed weapons, allowing the user to lessen the time it takes to reload. With the risk of prolonging the reload time if not done right, it would add something to these weapons akin to whether or not to pace your shots or hold down the trigger with a weapon like the Storm Rifle. Is there something to this idea that I might not have considered, for better or worse?

  3. Vehicle Durability/Destructibility - Is there anyone that prefers how CE handles vehicles over later installments? I’m not trying to be facetious or say the opinion is wrong in any way. I’m just genuinely curious about what perceived positives having indestructible vehicles may yield. As for the other side of that coin, what does having vehicles destructible do to improve the game?

2

I too wonder about health packs (and by extension non-recharging health). Not really discussed all that often, and I’ve heard interesting arguments in favor of and against them. They punish running away, which is good. They also leave you weakened even though you won a duel, which people might argue is bad.

Some relevant threads:

I have no strong feelings one way or the other about timed reloads.

I’d argue indestructible vehicles are a positive. They ensure vehicles are a constant aspect of play, and it creates this dynamic where teams try to horde or take back vehicles, and where vehicles are constantly switching hands between players instead of just being destroyed and removed from play for long periods of time.

It’s sad that threads like this are a rarity. These are the kind of thought-provoking discussions we should be having.

3

> 2533274819302824;2:
> I too wonder about health packs (and by extension non-recharging health). Not really discussed all that often, and I’ve heard interesting arguments in favor of and against them. They punish running away, which is good. They also leave you weakened even though you won a duel, which people might argue is bad.
>
> Some relevant threads:
> http://teambeyond.net/forum/topic/8989-support-a-proper-health-system-for-halo-5/?hl=healthpacks#entry405725
> http://teambeyond.net/forum/topic/6067-should-health-packs-return-to-halo-5/?hl=healthpacks
> http://teambeyond.net/forum/topic/4031-med-packs-are-bad/?hl=healthpacks#entry116681
>
> I have no strong feelings one way or the other about timed reloads.
>
> I’d argue indestructible vehicles are a positive. They ensure vehicles are a constant aspect of play, and it creates this dynamic where teams try to horde or take back vehicles, and where vehicles are constantly switching hands between players instead of just being destroyed and removed from play for long periods of time.
>
> It’s sad that threads like this are a rarity. These are the kind of thought-provoking discussions we should be having.

Well then let’s try to poke in this thread a while, it brings something fresh to the waypoint plate.

4

Timed reloads may be an interesting addition as log as they don’t grant any bonus’ to damage for getting s perfect reload
but if that were the case then what’s the point other than speeding up the reload time which is handy I suppose
it’s not a random element and something that could be timed fairly easily giving players who can do it consistently a small edge
I don’t hate the idea

I like the idea of indestructible vehicles as well
it puts an emphasis on vehicles as a legitimate threat and creates a constant tug of war of sorts over them instead of them just being destroyed until they respawn
some would argue that it would allow teams especially to just roll over ransoms and lesser skilled players, however I think that it would instead put emphasis on team work to take down vehicles since they are such a threat
maybe to balance that out make grenades and rockets deal extra damage to players while in vehicles so players are slightly easier to kill while in the vehicles
creating a risk reward scenario while also putting importance on controling power weapon spawns to ensure the opposition doesn’t score kills on your drivers/ gunners

5

Glad that someone finally brought up indestructible vehicles, it was such a unique aspect of halo CE, taking out a scorpion was so rewarding because once you take it back it is a huge momentum swing for your team

6

> 2684064956505966;5:
> Glad that someone finally brought up indestructible vehicles, it was such a unique aspect of halo CE, taking out a scorpion was so rewarding because once you take it back it is a huge momentum swing for your team

Plus think of all the crazy ways to defend a flag in ctf if they do enable it…

7

> 2533274819302824;2:
> I too wonder about health packs (and by extension non-recharging health). Not really discussed all that often, and I’ve heard interesting arguments in favor of and against them. They punish running away, which is good. They also leave you weakened even though you won a duel, which people might argue is bad.
>
> Some relevant threads:
>
>
>
> http://teambeyond.net/forum/topic/8989-support-a-proper-health-system-for-halo-5/?hl=healthpacks#entry405725
> http://teambeyond.net/forum/topic/6067-should-health-packs-return-to-halo-5/?hl=healthpacks
> http://teambeyond.net/forum/topic/4031-med-packs-are-bad/?hl=healthpacks#entry116681
>
>
>
>
> I have no strong feelings one way or the other about timed reloads.
>
> I’d argue indestructible vehicles are a positive. They ensure vehicles are a constant aspect of play, and it creates this dynamic where teams try to horde or take back vehicles, and where vehicles are constantly switching hands between players instead of just being destroyed and removed from play for long periods of time.
>
> It’s sad that threads like this are a rarity. These are the kind of thought-provoking discussions we should be having.

Gotta say Ramir3z, those links you posted do bring up some interesting points. In regards to the winner of a close encounter being punished/disadvantaged, it could also technically be said of anything he/she used to win that fight (has less ammo, possibly missing grenades now). This is rarely seen as problematic since the winner has some time to recover/replace what was lost. As for a mentioned issue of not enough health packs on the map (letting one teammate recover, but not another), I’m on the fence on whether or not I would call that a problem. It could theoretically promote teamwork (with teammates knowing that getting caught in a 1v1, the player who didn’t get health will more likely die).

If lack of opportunity to regain health immediately after a fight is to be considered an issue, perhaps it could be mitigated by not having health packs so much as small regen fields? Only giving health (incrementally or immediately replenishing?) and with a hold on regen if the user takes damage (similarly to the shield recharge delay for sprinting in H5). I think it would still be important that only one player can take advantage of it at any given time and that players can’t abuse it by pitching a tent in it. Thoughts?

> 2533274832130936;4:
> Timed reloads may be an interesting addition as long as they don’t grant any bonus’ to damage for getting s perfect reload
> but if that were the case then what’s the point other than speeding up the reload time which is handy I suppose
> it’s not a random element and something that could be timed fairly easily giving players who can do it consistently a small edge
> I don’t hate the idea
>
> I like the idea of indestructible vehicles as well
> it puts an emphasis on vehicles as a legitimate threat and creates a constant tug of war of sorts over them instead of them just being destroyed until they respawn
> some would argue that it would allow teams especially to just roll over ransoms and lesser skilled players, however I think that it would instead put emphasis on team work to take down vehicles since they are such a threat
> maybe to balance that out make grenades and rockets deal extra damage to players while in vehicles so players are slightly easier to kill while in the vehicles
> creating a risk reward scenario while also putting importance on controling power weapon spawns to ensure the opposition doesn’t score kills on your drivers/ gunners

Oh no, I agree that a damage buff would be too far. It’d be enough reward to have the magazine reloaded more quickly, especially while in the middle of a prolonged firefight.

Now on the subject of indestructible vehicles, did the vehicles of CE ever reset if left stationary too long? One thing that happens on occasion is that vehicles will get stuck in ways that can’t be corrected. Without the option to destroy the compromised vehicle (in the more recent games), you’d have to wait for it to despawn/reset after so long without player interaction. Was this ever an issue in CE and if so, how was it handled?

8

Like, I’d probably fill 2 whole pages of this thread listing reasons why Spartan Abilities destroy the gameplay but the three things you listed? Not much to say at all. Those things aren’t too huge for me.

In many ways I do find health packs to be beneficial, even if my first game was Halo 2. This comes more from playing Overwatch than it does Halo titles without shield regen, but players with less skill simply don’t have any staying power if they can’t regenerate their health, and that’s very, very good for the skillgap. It creates more fluid gameplay when everyone dies when they should, it is more punishing, and in some ways it is, better.

But since Halo will never truly have ‘fixed’ health due to always having regenerating shields, it does create a bit of redundancy to allow the player’s shields to recharge when their health does not. At that point, it just makes it such that players who were in a battle before will die more slightly more quickly, and doesn’t bring to the table much else.

A lot of CE’s mechanics are just replicated differently, I feel. Vehicles were mostly indestructible in CE (I believe only the Ghost, Wraith, and Banshee were destructible at all) but killing the occupants was also much more viable than in Halo 2 and 3, where the occupants pretty much had to be shot directly or hit with heavy weaponry to kill them and disable the vehicle. Reach just decided to cut out the middle man and kill the vehicle if it was shot at too much, in an attempt to replicate slightly easier vehicle disabling. The problem however, is that the vehicle itself was gone now. Halo 4 took it even further and disabled driver health inheritance entirely, further weakening vehicles across the board.

I really don’t have a desired way for vehicles to work at this point. I don’t like them to be in my face all the time, but I don’t like them to be useless either. I liked vehicles in CE, Halo 2, and in some ways Reach, but in Halo 3 they were just impossible to take out without the laser. Not a single weapon in the game was accurate enough to kill the driver.

9

> Now on the subject of indestructible vehicles, did the vehicles of CE ever reset if left stationary too long?

Yes they would. If left alone they’d respawn at their original location after about a minute.

I mean you could edit gametypes to have them respawn as fast as 30s or to never respawn at all, but default value is a minute.

> If lack of opportunity to regain health immediately after a fight is to be considered an issue, perhaps it could be mitigated by not having health packs so much as small regen fields? Only giving health (incrementally or immediately replenishing?) and with a hold on regen if the user takes damage (similarly to the shield recharge delay for sprinting in H5). I think it would still be important that only one player can take advantage of it at any given time and that players can’t abuse it by pitching a tent in it. Thoughts?

I think it would be better to just have medkits respawn faster. Or maybe a healing station of sorts where it heals and recharges each member on different intervals, so I can go and heal at it without interfering with my teammate’s ability to heal at it.

The problem with a health-field you proposed is that people are made to camp that spot, thus slowing the game.

10

> 2535460843083983;8:
> Like, I’d probably fill 2 whole pages of this thread listing reasons why Spartan Abilities destroy the gameplay but the three things you listed? Not much to say at all. Those things aren’t too huge for me.
>
> In many ways I do find health packs to be beneficial, even if my first game was Halo 2. This comes more from playing Overwatch than it does Halo titles without shield regen, but players with less skill simply don’t have any staying power if they can’t regenerate their health, and that’s very, very good for the skillgap. It creates more fluid gameplay when everyone dies when they should, it is more punishing, and in some ways it is, better.
>
> But since Halo will never truly have ‘fixed’ health due to always having regenerating shields, it does create a bit of redundancy to allow the player’s shields to recharge when their health does not. At that point, it just makes it such that players who were in a battle before will die more slightly more quickly, and doesn’t bring to the table much else.
>
> A lot of CE’s mechanics are just replicated differently, I feel. Vehicles were mostly indestructible in CE (I believe only the Ghost, Wraith, and Banshee were destructible at all) but killing the occupants was also much more viable than in Halo 2 and 3, where the occupants pretty much had to be shot directly or hit with heavy weaponry to kill them and disable the vehicle. Reach just decided to cut out the middle man and kill the vehicle if it was shot at too much, in an attempt to replicate slightly easier vehicle disabling. The problem however, is that the vehicle itself was gone now. Halo 4 took it even further and disabled driver health inheritance entirely, further weakening vehicles across the board.
>
> I really don’t have a desired way for vehicles to work at this point. I don’t like them to be in my face all the time, but I don’t like them to be useless either. I liked vehicles in CE, Halo 2, and in some ways Reach, but in Halo 3 they were just impossible to take out without the laser. Not a single weapon in the game was accurate enough to kill the driver.

Well, I did initially have something related to those new mechanics listed, but decided to redact it feeling like this thread would just focus on that and not much else. Thought it would be more interesting to talk about changes in mechanics that were made elsewhere in the games’ history, if only to have more “fresh” conversations.

Back to the health conversation, I think that Halo’s shields would add more of a buffer in terms of people “dying when they should”. A way to make it where you aren’t punished for a close encounter to the point where an opponent merely has to land a single headshot on you, given how Halo currently handles headshots. In most games (Overwatch included), players have two things that affect damage dealt: shot placement and which weapon/ability is being used.

Halo, oddly, generally doesn’t add to that list. It changes it over the course of combat. When shields come into play, shot placement needn’t be as acute (unless using a sniper) and the values for weapon damage can change (notably with plasma weapons). Sadly, the gameplay doesn’t seem to reflect the potential for this setup and frankly I think the setup could use some tweaking. Designated “shield-strippers” like the Plasma/Storm Rifle are generally restrained to closer ranges due to projectile speed and spread, while the weapons that work better against “health” are well enough against shields to not really need to be paired with the former.

Is there much reason to oppose a headshot modifier on shields for weapons like the BR and/or AR, taking into account it would be balanced to allow some leniency but still promote more accurate shot placement throughout an encounter rather than just after lowering shields? What about changing the Covenant Carbine to act as less of a “precision” weapon (in the traditional sense that it kills with one unshielded headshot) and making it better against shields, but with a headshot multiplier against health as well as shields? Converting a weapon that could currently be considered a semi-auto BR with no niche of its own into a skillful mid-range shield--Yoink!-, it would reduce the redundancy of the Carbine without removing the weapon itself.

> 2533274819302824;9:
> I think it would be better to just have medkits respawn faster. Or maybe a healing station of sorts where it heals and recharges each member on different intervals, so I can go and heal at it without interfering with my teammate’s ability to heal at it.
>
> The problem with a health-field you proposed is that people are made to camp that spot, thus slowing the game.

While a regen field does pose questions when it comes to making sure people can’t just stay in it, I don’t see how having personal intervals like you suggest couldn’t be implemented to them. Also, I’m not sure how beneficial camping in a regen field that only affects health would be (given the hold on regen after taking damage I mentioned). With decent map design I would think these regen fields/health stations could be relatively exposed.

Back to vehicles, the more I consider the option the more I’d like to see it in practice. May have to start watching more CE gameplay to see how it plays out (never played much CE multiplayer for myself, as it were). I do recall the vehicle physics and controls were… less than ideal. With indestructible vehicles, what would that mean for boarding things like Scorpions? After all, boarding and indestructible vehicles (by default, at least) never coincided with any release. Also, I feel ignorant for asking this but can someone explain “driver health inheritance” to me? Didn’t know they had different mechanics regarding vehicle health for destructible vehicles.

11

> 2533274819302824;2:
> I too wonder about health packs (and by extension non-recharging health). Not really discussed all that often, and I’ve heard interesting arguments in favor of and against them. They punish running away, which is good. They also leave you weakened even though you won a duel, which people might argue is bad.
>
> Some relevant threads:
> http://teambeyond.net/forum/topic/8989-support-a-proper-health-system-for-halo-5/?hl=healthpacks#entry405725
> http://teambeyond.net/forum/topic/6067-should-health-packs-return-to-halo-5/?hl=healthpacks
> http://teambeyond.net/forum/topic/4031-med-packs-are-bad/?hl=healthpacks#entry116681
>
> I have no strong feelings one way or the other about timed reloads.
>
> I’d argue indestructible vehicles are a positive. They ensure vehicles are a constant aspect of play, and it creates this dynamic where teams try to horde or take back vehicles, and where vehicles are constantly switching hands between players instead of just being destroyed and removed from play for long periods of time.
>
> It’s sad that threads like this are a rarity. These are the kind of thought-provoking discussions we should be having.

Yeah, a lot more interesting conversational value than huge “rate my armor” threads…

12

> 2533274808210415;11:
> > 2533274819302824;2:
> > It’s sad that threads like this are a rarity. These are the kind of thought-provoking discussions we should be having.
>
>
> Yeah, a lot more interesting conversational value than huge “rate my armor” threads…

Easy there, no need for posts like this.

13

I thought I’d bring something up since shields and headshot modifiers are being mentioned.

In Halo Ce the Plasma Rifle did extra headshot damage even with shields, but it was only a slight modifier so you wouldn’t just one-shot someone when their shields went away. However, landing all headshots would practically double the gun’s DPS. To my knowledge it’s the only weapon in the entire franchise to have this effect. As an aside it’s also unique in being one of only two weapons in the entire franchise capable of slowing target’s movement and aim.

I’d leave precision weapons as they currently are and pursue that system for (some) automatic weapons, to give automatics more of an edge that still has to be earned. It would force you to stay on target with weapons that otherwise don’t really require you to stay on target. It would somewhat bridge the skill and effectiveness gap between the two classes of weapon.

It’s sad really how many unique things Ce got right that future titles just threw out the window. Another thing is that melees had unique range and speed depending on the weapon, and there was no melee lunge so there was the potential to avoid them as well. They also received more damage based on your motion.

As for “shield strippers”, I’ve never been a fan of them. First because exactly like you said they were limited to CQC making them worthless for teamwork. Second because the weapon no longer feels like an actual weapon at that point. You can kill someone with just a health weapon, while with a shield weapon you’re always going to be switching to the health weapon. So ultimately the health weapon is always getting all the kills either way. I don’t mind shield strippers like the Halo Ce Plasma Rifle because weapons like that are also effective in their own right and have other purposes in addition to shield stripping, which isn’t its primary purpose. I don’t have a problem with the Plasma Pistol as well since it’s supposed to be the only dedicated shield--Yoink!- in the game. The Halo 2 Plasma Rifle was just a complete waste of a weapon though because it’s just an SMG clone that’s only good against shields, and it wasn’t even superior to weapons like the Plasma Pistol at it.

> While a regen field does pose questions when it comes to making sure people can’t just stay in it, I don’t see how having personal intervals like you suggest couldn’t be implemented to them. Also, I’m not sure how beneficial camping in a regen field that only affects health would be (given the hold on regen after taking damage I mentioned). With decent map design I would think these regen fields/health stations could be relatively exposed.

Primarily what I meant is that with a medkit you can just pick it up and keep moving, while with a regen field you’re forced to sit there and wait, thus slowing the game.

Having medkits heal and recharge their use on an individual team-member basis is superior in my opinion.

> With indestructible vehicles, what would that mean for boarding things like Scorpions? After all, boarding and indestructible vehicles (by default, at least) never coincided with any release. Also, I feel ignorant for asking this but can someone explain “driver health inheritance” to me? Didn’t know they had different mechanics regarding vehicle health for destructible vehicles.

I have to question the necessity of boarding.

In Halo Ce, unlike most future games, you could easily topple a Warthog with a well-placed grenade, and the crew would auto-eject.

Other vehicles like the Scorpion had a very exposed driver, making them glass-cannons.

The Banshee had no such achilles heel, but it wasn’t added to multiplayer until Halo PC (i.e. it was never intended to be in multiplayer and thus wasn’t properly balanced for it). I suppose for aerial vehicles boarding could be useful, simply kicking out the pilot, but for ground vehicles I don’t see much of a point.

Driver health insurance…well…it’s complicated. From what I understand you could have a flaming Warthog in Halo 3, but the vehicle itself wouldn’t blow up unless your shields drop. So theoretically a driver with an overshield could survive a splaser or rocket to an extremely damaged vehicle.

14

> 2533274819302824;13:
> I thought I’d bring something up since shields and headshot modifiers are being mentioned.
>
> In Halo Ce the Plasma Rifle did extra headshot damage even with shields, but it was only a slight modifier so you wouldn’t just one-shot someone when their shields went away. However, landing all headshots would practically double the gun’s DPS. To my knowledge it’s the only weapon in the entire franchise to have this effect. As an aside it’s also unique in being one of only two weapons in the entire franchise capable of slowing target’s movement and aim.
>
> I’d leave precision weapons as they currently are and pursue that system for (some) automatic weapons, to give automatics more of an edge that still has to be earned. It would force you to stay on target with weapons that otherwise don’t really require you to stay on target. It would somewhat bridge the skill and effectiveness gap between the two classes of weapon.

Giving autos a debuff effect of sorts when consistent fire is maintained? I’d be okay with that. It would be a good way of keeping them viable while still maintaining a fair amount of skill to be had with them. Would the effect be compounded for every shot? Like if you shoot a guy with the SMG, would they lose 5% speed for as long as your shooting them? Or would every consistent bullet lower their speed by 5% each?

15

Oh no, I’m definitely not saying every auto should stun opponents. Just pointing it out as another unique Ce thing. I was referring to the headshot modifiers with that statement, which even then is only applicable to some automatic weapons.

In Ce though the stun effect didn’t compound, the opponent was simply slowed down for as long as you kept fire on them.

16

> 2533274819302824;15:
> Oh no, I’m definitely not saying every auto should stun opponents. Just pointing it out as another unique Ce thing. I was referring to the headshot modifiers with that statement, which even then is only applicable to some automatic weapons.
>
> In Ce though the stun effect didn’t compound, the opponent was simply slowed down for as long as you kept fire on them.

Not every auto should have slow-down, of course. I was just making an example.

Talking about health packs, it did make having shields and health less redundant. At the moment, health is just more shields. You just don’t have very much of it. You don’t wanna add complexity for it’s own sake though, so if health being truly different in a functional sense than shields fits in well with the rest of the game, then I’d add it.

I think it would be cool to see health SLOWLY recharge over time, made faster with health packs. This way, you aren’t healing mid-engagement, but if you win, you can heal by playing it safe and keeping your distance. Health packs could be placed in open areas as a risky move for hurt players.

17

> 2533274819302824;15:
> I thought I’d bring something up since shields and headshot modifiers are being mentioned.
>
> In Halo Ce the Plasma Rifle did extra headshot damage even with shields, but it was only a slight modifier so you wouldn’t just one-shot someone when their shields went away. However, landing all headshots would practically double the gun’s DPS. To my knowledge it’s the only weapon in the entire franchise to have this effect. As an aside it’s also unique in being one of only two weapons in the entire franchise capable of slowing target’s movement and aim.
>
> I’d leave precision weapons as they currently are and pursue that system for (some) automatic weapons, to give automatics more of an edge that still has to be earned. It would force you to stay on target with weapons that otherwise don’t really require you to stay on target. It would somewhat bridge the skill and effectiveness gap between the two classes of weapon.
>
> It’s sad really how many unique things Ce got right that future titles just threw out the window. Another thing is that melees had unique range and speed depending on the weapon, and there was no melee lunge so there was the potential to avoid them as well. They also received more damage based on your motion.

I knew CE’s Plasma Rifle had those attributes, but not to what extents. Strange how simple in operation the AR is, then how interesting Bungle made another automatic in the same game. Sad that the PR never regained much of that after dual-wielding neutered every weapon it dealt with. What was the second weapon to slow targets’ movement?

I’d leave precision weapons largely the same, but think that giving them a shield damage multiplier and maintaining their one-unshielded-headshot lethality would make them even more skillful and give shield-stripping weapons more purpose. I also think the Carbine would be better suited as an accurate non-precision weapon with headshot multiplier for both shields and health. I’d like to see headshot multipliers for all applicable non-precision weapons, but understand that shot placement can’t really be considered deliberate if the weapon is too inaccurate. I don’t think that chance headshots should be rewarded with extra damage, and that somewhat plays into why I’d like to see the Carbine changed.

It’s rate-of-fire is fast enough that you can arguably start sprayin’ & prayin’ when you know your opponent is only a shot or so away from death. Lowering the RoF obviously would make it too much like the Magnum or DMR, while adding bloom or recoil would make the weapon more random/less skillful or deter players from using it over another precision weapon.

> 2533274819302824;15:
> As for “shield strippers”, I’ve never been a fan of them. First because exactly like you said they were limited to CQC making them worthless for teamwork. Second because the weapon no longer feels like an actual weapon at that point. You can kill someone with just a health weapon, while with a shield weapon you’re always going to be switching to the health weapon. So ultimately the health weapon is always getting all the kills either way. I don’t mind shield strippers like the Halo Ce Plasma Rifle because weapons like that are also effective in their own right and have other purposes in addition to shield stripping, which isn’t its primary purpose. I don’t have a problem with the Plasma Pistol as well since it’s supposed to be the only dedicated shield--Yoink!- in the game. The Halo 2 Plasma Rifle was just a complete waste of a weapon though because it’s just an SMG clone that’s only good against shields, and it wasn’t even superior to weapons like the Plasma Pistol at it.

The concept of shield-oriented weapons doesn’t inherently limit them to CQC, though. Its just historically the only effective range that such weapons were tuned for in the past (likely because its the only range where melee becomes a factor). As for the point of it no longer feeling like a lethal weapon, that’s largely due to how shields must be depleted before health damage can occur and how the sandbox has taken that into account. Since a headshot is only ever an instant kill when the target is unshielded (aside from snipers), the devs have had to balance kill-times around that of precision weapons. This makes using a precision weapon more viable after shields are depleted, regardless of what gun you were using to get those shields down.

Plays along with how precision weapons are considered more competitive not only because they require more skill to use, but because when shields are down there is no alternative that compares to an instant kill that can be performed at range and with consistency. However, to me that doesn’t make weapons that can lower shields faster than a precision weapon worthless. Akin to how grenades often don’t kill on their own but can weaken targets enough to clean up with a headshot, shield-strippers can offer an edge without necessitating their use.

> 2533274819302824;15:
> Primarily what I meant is that with a medkit you can just pick it up and keep moving, while with a regen field you’re forced to sit there and wait, thus slowing the game. Having medkits heal and recharge their use on an individual team-member basis is superior in my opinion.

I can agree to that. Didn’t fully consider the “waiting” aspect of the regen field when I pitched it. Instantaneous pick-up does sound better.

> 2533274819302824;15:
> I have to question the necessity of boarding. In Halo Ce, unlike most future games, you could easily topple a Warthog with a well-placed grenade, and the crew would auto-eject. Other vehicles like the Scorpion had a very exposed driver, making them glass-cannons.
>
> The Banshee had no such achilles heel, but it wasn’t added to multiplayer until Halo PC (i.e. it was never intended to be in multiplayer and thus wasn’t properly balanced for it). I suppose for aerial vehicles boarding could be useful, simply kicking out the pilot, but for ground vehicles I don’t see much of a point.
>
> Driver health insurance…well…it’s complicated. From what I understand you could have a flaming Warthog in Halo 3, but the vehicle itself wouldn’t blow up unless your shields drop. So theoretically a driver with an overshield could survive a splaser or rocket to an extremely damaged vehicle.

Though not necessary I wouldn’t be opposed to keeping vehicle boarding around, provided there are other ways to reasonably neutralize vehicles like the Scorpion without superior firepower or an ungodly amount of bullets. The relatively exposed canopy of CE’s Scorpion achieved that. Problem with no vehicle boarding for ground vehicles is that not only the Banshee has been made available in multiplayer since CE’s initial release. Vehicles like the Wraith and Mantis completely enclose their drivers, but perhaps their driver’s could take direct damage when shooting designated areas on such vehicles? Perhaps the exposed engine/booster port at the back of the Wraith and the back of the Mantis’ cockpit?

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> 2535440283237581;1:
> 3. Vehicle Durability/Destructibility - Is there anyone that prefers how CE handles vehicles over later installments? I’m not trying to be facetious or say the opinion is wrong in any way. I’m just genuinely curious about what perceived positives having indestructible vehicles may yield. As for the other side of that coin, what does having vehicles destructible do to improve the game?

This would definitely be an interesting discussion to have. Certainly, I would say that with the vehicle health system we’ve had since Reach (vehicles get destroyed eventually no matter what) the interplay between vehicles and players on foot has definitely become less interesting. On one hand it means that the driver has no chance of surviving in the long term, and on the other hand it means that the players on foot need to put zero mental effort towards destroying the vehicle. I’d go as far as to argue that this is biased against vehicles as the players on foot need little skill, just time, to destroy the vehicle, whereas the vehicle won’t survive no matter how skilled the driver.

I brought this up beacuse I think it’s important regarding vehicle health to understand that there are at least three very distinct ways vehicle health has functioned in Halo. There’s Halo CE, then there’s Halo 2 and 3, and then there’s Reach and onwards. The important difference between the second and the last is that the vehicle health is connected to the driver health, and nonexplosive weapons are really bad at destroying vehicles. And of these, the Reach system at least is terrible for the aforementined reasons.

When it comes to the difference between no vehicle health, and vehicle health connected to driver health, I feel like the difference here is far less significant than between connected health and independent health. After all, with both indestructible vehicles and connected health nonexplosive weapons are practically useless against vehicles, and the only practical ways of taking out the vehicle are either to use an explosive, or to snipe the driver. The gameplay dynamic is largely the same, with the difference being that the vehicle is at no point destroyed, and so isn’t given the chance to respawn.

The change that indestructible vehicles have on the dynamic is that when the driver is killed, the opponents gain control of the vehicle. The implication of this to gameplay is that the situation where one team controls all the vehicles is far more likely. This is especially significant with tanks, where with any kind of health system the opponents are almost always left with a destroyed tank, and therefore the chance of one team having two tanks becomes small. When vehicles are indestructible, the chances of one team having two tanks becomes significant.

I don’t really see the point in indestructible vehicles, because it’s always possible to take the best of both worlds. A system where the driver cannot die from nonexplosive weapons unless hit directly, but where explosives can destroy vehicles has all the good aspects of indestructible vehicles (skilled drivers can survive long times, players on foot need to put mental effort into destroying the vehicle) without the bad ones (mainly, enemies gaining control of all disabled vehicles). Only in the case if you want the dynamic that the opponent always gains control of the vehicle is there any point in having indestructible vehicles.

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> 2533274819302824;15:
> It’s sad really how many unique things Ce got right that future titles just threw out the window. Another thing is that melees had unique range and speed depending on the weapon, and there was no melee lunge so there was the potential to avoid them as well. They also received more damage based on your motion.

Wasn’t the momentum-based melee system carried over into H2 then dropped in H3?

I like the depth that varying ranges and speeds adds to melee, but I don’t like that factors like when the target is in melee range and how much damage will be dealt are never communicated to the player through the HUD (at least not to my knowledge). I don’t like the guesswork associated with that when its something that could be told through a simple line under the crosshair or something similarly small and easy to read.

I’m of the opinion that if information can be effectively and concisely communicated to the player, it generally should be.

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> 2535440283237581;19:
> > 2533274819302824;15:
> > It’s sad really how many unique things Ce got right that future titles just threw out the window. Another thing is that melees had unique range and speed depending on the weapon, and there was no melee lunge so there was the potential to avoid them as well. They also received more damage based on your motion.
>
>
> Wasn’t the momentum-based melee system carried over into H2 then dropped in H3?
>
> I like the depth that varying ranges and speeds adds to melee, but I don’t like that factors like when the target is in melee range and how much damage will be dealt are never communicated to the player through the HUD (at least not to my knowledge). I don’t like the guesswork associated with that when its something that could be told through a simple line under the crosshair or something similarly small and easy to read.
>
> I’m of the opinion that if information can be effectively and concisely communicated to the player, it generally should be.

I’m with you. If there was a way to quantify, at a glance, the range and speed of melee attacks with different weapons, I’d be on board with it. However, it would also be somewhat unfair if you’re walking through a tunnel and a dude jumps out, and the only reason you lost was because of arbitrary stats.

I suppose that’s also the argument against the “redundant” weapon pickups in the game, and I enjoy Halo 5’s weapon balance as is.

Halo: Hypocrisy Evolved