Gameplay and how to improve it

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

I couldn’t fit this on the title, but I meant to say how would you change the gameplay to appeal to all fans? I know some ideas people may not like, but this is more of a compromise, so both sides have to lose something to gain something. Mods, note that this isn’t a sprint thread, but the gameplay as a whole, however sprint will be mentioned.

ADS: While I am not opposed to it, many refuse to play halo with it, so for the better of halo, I think it’d be better if ADS was removed.

Spartan abilities: All should be removed except thrust in matchmaking, but all will be available for customs. The thrust will allow for unique ways to play without messing up the map or the sandbox. Clamber would be removed, but if your foot gets caught on a ledge, you’d just be pushed onto the ledge without an animation.

Sprint: Removed from matchmaking, added in customs (including action sack). I like sprint, but I feel that more people dislike it. For the better of halo, I think it should be removed.

Do you guys have any suggestions?

2

I think if H6 removed Sprint from the core gameplay (maybe only retaining it in custom games and possibly Warzone) and by extension Spartan Charge altogether, increased the movement speed by ~10% (and reducing map size slightly,) and reduced the height bonus granted by clamber (making it more comparable to crouch jumping) would really make the remaining abilities (ADS, Clamber, Thruster Pack, Stabilizers, Ground Pound) shine in an environment that allows for creative movement yet still being more classic feeling.

Don’t get me wrong, I would love to see all abilities removed except for thruster, but there are so many fans of new that I feel that 343 is really stuck between a rock and a hard place when it comes to classic and simple vs hip-new-complex-sprinty mobility. I feel at least without sprint, spartan charge, and a reduction in clamber’s height bonus along with a boost to base walking speed that the core gameplay would feel more classic while still retaining some new mechanics newer (and some older) players seem to like.

Also, remove the headshot bonus on Automatics as well as very slightly reduce ADS zoom and sticky (aim assist) range on Automatics to limit them more to close range and having consistent/predictable shots to kill. I don’t want to see them return to H3 levels of meh AT ALL but at the same time they were just a bit too good in H5.

3

I was actually kind of hoping this was a thread about how to improve discussion on gameplay, not a discussion on how to improve gameplay; because, well let’s face it, we have had a ton of these same threads for over a year now. I don’t mean that the discussion alone does not warrant continued debate, but it is my opinion if you’re going to make a whole new thread offer a unique perspective. Just my opinion.

Right now, I really don’t think any of these will be removed. Maybe in the HCS playlist, which is where they should be, but this is more of a hope for the next Halo. Hey we don’t have POD’s anymore so here’s to hoping.

4

This saying comes to mind: If you try to please everyone, you’ll end up pleasing no one.

I feel that’s what 343 did with H5 and it’s not working. There’s so much that needs to change or be improved upon that it’s almost comical. I’ll just list some of the things.

1) Get rid of sprint, up the base speed, and increase the FOV which will make you feel like you’re moving faster.

2) Get rid of spartan charge.

3) I think thrust needs to be changed or get rid of it. It’s one reason why gunfights last so long because you can thrust behind cover.

4) Remove headshot bonuses from autos and rebalance them and the rest of the weapon sandbox around the magnum which is the utility weapon. Less weapons as well since there are so many redundant weapons in H5. A minimalist approach with every weapon serving a specific role would be great.

5) The entire UI needs to be overhauled. Go back to something like Reach for that and for the armor customization as well.

6) The progression system needs work. 152 is such a weird number to end on. Needs more rewards and a better reason to keep grinding.

7) Party restrictions for at least H6.

8) Playlists and maps need to be a priority instead of an afterthought. BTB and Action Sack says hi.

5

> 2727626560040591;4:
> This saying comes to mind: If you try to please everyone, you’ll end up pleasing no one.
>
> I feel that’s what 343 did with H5 and it’s not working. There’s so much that needs to change or be improved upon that it’s almost comical. I’ll just list some of the things.
>
> Get rid of sprint, up the base speed, and increase the FOV which will make you feel like you’re moving faster. Agreed Wholeheartedly.
> Get rid of spartan charge. Agreed.
> I think thrust needs to be changed or get rid of it. It’s one reason why gunfights last so long because you can thrust behind cover. Thruster is actually one of two abilities i like (along with stabilizers). Increasing the recharge up to 7 seconds might help (instead of 4)
> Remove headshot bonuses from autos and rebalance them and the rest of the weapon sandbox around the magnum which is the utility weapon. Agreed (though I hope automatics don’t completely suck in the future either.)
> The entire UI needs to be overhauled. Go back to something like Reach for that and for the armor customization as well. Agreed.
> progression system needs work. 152 is such a weird number to end on. Needs more rewards and a better reason to keep grinding. Party restrictions for at least H6.
>
> Playlists and maps need to be a priority instead of an afterthought. BTB and Action Sack says hi. Definitely

6

I’m assuming this is for halo 6.
What I would like:
Remove sprint,and spartan charge.Keep every other ability.
Have a true utility weapon with a large gap between average and perfect ttk due to how difficult it is to use(CE pistol)
Reduce aim assist on everything.
Don’t clutter up the sandbox with weapons that are reskinned clones of each other.
Increase strafe acceleration.
What the silent majority that left halo would like:
Exactly the same as above but remove all abilities.

7
  • Auto weapons: Remove the headshot bonus on all autos and remove “scoping” on all autos. - Sprint: Add a playlist with sprint and another without it. I don’t how the weapon sandbox will go without sprint. Needs tweaking for it to work. - User Interface: I don’t know, just copy 'n paste Halo Reach’s UI - Abilities: Spartan Charge can go away and Ground Pound don’t care - Other stuff that IMO are not relevant to this topicHere are my suggestions. I don’t care how you guys react to this but feel free to disagree.
8

> 2535455681930574;1:
> …Clamber would be removed, but if your foot gets caught on a ledge, you’d just be pushed onto the ledge without an animation…

Uh wut? Like weirdly teleport, or shift through the 3D space?

9

Full disclaimer: If it were up to me, all of this stuff would be thrown out within a second, and I think the game is worse off with any compromise than with the “cut off the fat” approach. However, if I had to think of some sort of middle ground between Nu Halo and Classic Halo, this would be it. (Also, all of this applies across the board, to both campaign and multiplayer. No point in fixing one but leaving the other broken. Customs is a different beast, however.)

> 2535455681930574;1:
> ADS: While I am not opposed to it, many refuse to play halo with it, so for the better of halo, I think it’d be better if ADS was removed.

ADS absolutely needs to go on precision weapons. Old zoom has to return on those for better visibility. (As a bonus, it also agrees better with lore.) On the other hand, all those weapons where in the past zooming would activate the binoculars can keep ADS for all I care. But no buffs! No multipliers, no spread reduction, nothing besides maybe increased Red Reticule Range. It’s supposed to be an assistance to aiming, not a “my weapon magically gets better by the push of a button” mode. Descope, of course.

> 2535455681930574;1:
> Spartan abilities: All should be removed except thrust in matchmaking, but all will be available for customs. The thrust will allow for unique ways to play without messing up the map or the sandbox. Clamber would be removed, but if your foot gets caught on a ledge, you’d just be pushed onto the ledge without an animation.

I actually don’t have a problem with most abilities.

  • Clamber could work, but it needs better map design, and I’m not sure if 343 can manage to do this, so I would axe it for regular gameplay.
  • I dislike Ground Pound, but on the other hand, it’s highly situational, so keeping it probably doesn’t do as much harm. Maybe nerf AoE?
  • Thrust I actually like, but some people (such as tsassi) have pointed out that Evade could potentially work better for gameplay. It would also allow for trick jumps currently not possible with Thrust.
  • Spartan Charge is garbage and is only a response to double melee, so its inclusion is directly tied to what happens to sprint. If sprint goes, so does Spartan Charge. See below.
  • Slide is similar, but it’s also situational, so it could be removed, but could also be kept (and adapted to work with max speed)
  • I’m currently still on the fence about stabilizers.

> 2535455681930574;1:
> Sprint: Removed from matchmaking, added in customs (including action sack). I like sprint, but I feel that more people dislike it. For the better of halo, I think it should be removed.

Sprint in its current form is an atrocity. The disconnect between “movement mode” and “combat mode” completely breaks Halo’s gameplay and needs to go, ASAP. However, for all the players craving a method of traversing large maps faster, different mechanics could be implemented that serve the same purpose.
I’ve already mentioned something like Blink in the past, where players could use some sort of Promethean teleportation technology to cross large distances (but only within line of sight) similar to the Knight’s rush attack in Halo 4. It would be highly telegraphed and thereby dodgeable, but it still needs a lot of balancing.
Another option would be to use the Spartans’ thrusters as a sort of rocket to propel them ahead, hovering above ground, but it would require a large charge-up time (while standing still?). I’m thinking of three seconds, but at the very least it needs to be larger than the average TTK, to stop it from being a “Get out of Jail Free” card. It would have limited range and require recharge to not spam it or zoom around the map indefinitely.
If all else fails, and sprint absolutely has to be in the game for whatever reason, then the only compromise even remotely worth a damn is to allow players to shoot their gun while sprinting, if neccessary at an increased spread. Another option might be that you are allowed to shoot while sprinting, nut not to reload, since it requires more precise action by a Spartan than just pulling the trigger. But as I said, the disconnect between movement and combat needs to go and that way, players still have the option to finish off their kill when the other guy starts to leg it.

10

> 2535455681930574;1:
> I couldn’t fit this on the title, but I meant to say how would you change the gameplay to appeal to all fans? I know some ideas people may not like, but this is more of a compromise, so both sides have to lose something to gain something. Mods, note that this isn’t a sprint thread, but the gameplay as a whole, however sprint will be mentioned.
>
> ADS: While I am not opposed to it, many refuse to play halo with it, so for the better of halo, I think it’d be better if ADS was removed.
>
> Spartan abilities: All should be removed except thrust in matchmaking, but all will be available for customs. The thrust will allow for unique ways to play without messing up the map or the sandbox. Clamber would be removed, but if your foot gets caught on a ledge, you’d just be pushed onto the ledge without an animation.
>
> Sprint: Removed from matchmaking, added in customs (including action sack). I like sprint, but I feel that more people dislike it. For the better of halo, I think it should be removed.
>
> Do you guys have any suggestions?

The bolded part is the only thing in this suggestion I can’t accept. If it came down to it, I’d rather have Ground Pound, Stabilizer, and Slide (not that I want them to stay) than anything that helps the player redeem a failed jump. These abilities at least add something, even if that’s just some tricks to get more distance out of jumps. But helping players succeed at failed jumps goes against everything I like about the gameplay of Halo. Clamber was ultimately the deal breaker for me in Halo 5.

11

> 2533274825830455;10:
> > 2535455681930574;1:
> > I couldn’t fit this on the title, but I meant to say how would you change the gameplay to appeal to all fans? I know some ideas people may not like, but this is more of a compromise, so both sides have to lose something to gain something. Mods, note that this isn’t a sprint thread, but the gameplay as a whole, however sprint will be mentioned.
> >
> > ADS: While I am not opposed to it, many refuse to play halo with it, so for the better of halo, I think it’d be better if ADS was removed.
> >
> > Spartan abilities: All should be removed except thrust in matchmaking, but all will be available for customs. The thrust will allow for unique ways to play without messing up the map or the sandbox. Clamber would be removed, but if your foot gets caught on a ledge, you’d just be pushed onto the ledge without an animation.
> >
> > Sprint: Removed from matchmaking, added in customs (including action sack). I like sprint, but I feel that more people dislike it. For the better of halo, I think it should be removed.
> >
> > Do you guys have any suggestions?
>
> The bolded part is the only thing in this suggestion I can’t accept. If it came down to it, I’d rather have Ground Pound, Stabilizer, and Slide (not that I want them to stay) than anything that helps the player redeem a failed jump. These abilities at least add something, even if that’s just some tricks to get more distance out of jumps. But helping players succeed at failed jumps goes against everything I like about the gameplay of Halo. Clamber was ultimately the deal breaker for me in Halo 5.

I wanted this because it’s annoying and just plain stupid to have your toes get on a ledge so you can’t make the jump. If your legs or anything above your feet got caught, you wouldn’t make it.

12

> 2727626560040591;4:
> This saying comes to mind: If you try to please everyone, you’ll end up pleasing no one.
>
> I feel that’s what 343 did with H5 and it’s not working. There’s so much that needs to change or be improved upon that it’s almost comical. I’ll just list some of the things.
>
> 1) Get rid of sprint, up the base speed, and increase the FOV which will make you feel like you’re moving faster.
>
> 2) Get rid of spartan charge.
>
> 3) I think thrust needs to be changed or get rid of it. It’s one reason why gunfights last so long because you can thrust behind cover.
>
> 4) Remove headshot bonuses from autos and rebalance them and the rest of the weapon sandbox around the magnum which is the utility weapon. Less weapons as well since there are so many redundant weapons in H5. A minimalist approach with every weapon serving a specific role would be great.
>
> 5) The entire UI needs to be overhauled. Go back to something like Reach for that and for the armor customization as well.
>
> 6) The progression system needs work. 152 is such a weird number to end on. Needs more rewards and a better reason to keep grinding.
>
> 7) Party restrictions for at least H6.
>
> 8) Playlists and maps need to be a priority instead of an afterthought. BTB and Action Sack says hi.

Then how do compromises work? I’m not trying to appeal to everyone. I’m trying to appeal to people who are willing to compromise. Most can to an extent, but there are some who can’t handle anything but OG Halo 3 gameplay.

While I agree with upping the FoV, I don’t want it for the sole purpose of creating an illusion, because that’s not what pro-sprinters want. Also, the BMS would have to be lower, because halo 5’s is the highest we’ve had.

I think thrust is the way you compromise with new fans. People exaggerate the capabilities of thrust way too much. It’s not a get out of jail free card like many claim. If you’re close enough to thrust to cover without dying, you’re close enough to walk to cover without dying, but rarely will you ever escape death by pushing the thrust button. It offers unique ways to strafe and traverse traverse the map, and I really feel as though it could work with classic gameplay.

I agree with the no headshot auto bonuses, but autos are mostly fine where they are. The only tweaks I’d make is give the SMG less range, and completely rework the storm/plasma rifle. The AR is almost perfect IMO. I also disagree with less weapons. Each one is balanced and doesn’t break the gameplay, so why would we remove them? I don’t care if some are redundant. They fit with each faction and the game won’t be better if they’re removed.

Agree with everything else.

13

O

> 2533274825830455;10:
> > 2535455681930574;1:
> > I couldn’t fit this on the title, but I meant to say how would you change the gameplay to appeal to all fans? I know some ideas people may not like, but this is more of a compromise, so both sides have to lose something to gain something. Mods, note that this isn’t a sprint thread, but the gameplay as a whole, however sprint will be mentioned.
> >
> > ADS: While I am not opposed to it, many refuse to play halo with it, so for the better of halo, I think it’d be better if ADS was removed.
> >
> > Spartan abilities: All should be removed except thrust in matchmaking, but all will be available for customs. The thrust will allow for unique ways to play without messing up the map or the sandbox. Clamber would be removed, but if your foot gets caught on a ledge, you’d just be pushed onto the ledge without an animation.
> >
> > Sprint: Removed from matchmaking, added in customs (including action sack). I like sprint, but I feel that more people dislike it. For the better of halo, I think it should be removed.
> >
> > Do you guys have any suggestions?
>
> The bolded part is the only thing in this suggestion I can’t accept. If it came down to it, I’d rather have Ground Pound, Stabilizer, and Slide (not that I want them to stay) than anything that helps the player redeem a failed jump. These abilities at least add something, even if that’s just some tricks to get more distance out of jumps. But helping players succeed at failed jumps goes against everything I like about the gameplay of Halo. Clamber was ultimately the deal breaker for me in Halo 5.

while I understand where you are coming from. I feel like clamber is a good addition to the game. Playing titanfall today really reminded me of how smooth the gameplay is. Its actually ridiculous how well respawn made the smoothness and transition of movement. What I’m getting at is that id like halo 5 to have that kind of smoothness (not the abilities but the concept of the smoothness of the movement) and clamber really adds to the smoothness. I’ve managed to pull off some really crazy combos of movement to parkour and escape combat and they all involve clamber.

14

I want ADS gone in every which way or form. I absolutely can’t stand the look of it on so many guns it blocks my view of my target. The old zoom style is better in everyway.

Like Celestis put, you have to find some kind of middle ground now I think too with Halo between old and new style. For zoom, the ADS style animation has to go from all Precision weapons and the old style come back. You can easily upgrade the look of the old style to make it look amazing it would not be hard. If they want to keep ADS in some form on weapons like the Needler and have it look like something like how they did on the Needler, then I’m ok with that.

As much as I don’t mind Halo 5 gameplay as I like it a lot better than Reach and 4, I still feel like the Sprint animation causes way too many problems. Look at right now what they’re doing with the Proving Grounds play list. So much effort going into trying to make the game play better when the answer is simple… remove the Sprint animation, boom problems gone lol I’m obviously talking about Halo 6 here not 5.

SC and GP as far as I’m concerned can stay IF the Sprint animations stays. SC and GP both need to be tweaked though. Sliding again can stay too if Sprint is in but sliding is so underutilized you might as well not have it, so they better make some maps utilize sliding if they keep it in the future halos.

Now, clamber and stabilizers I have a little bit of a different look on. Personally I think clamber could work in the game and should stay. I think stabilizers are unnecessary and should go. I don’t really feel like they add that much to the game play at all. Sure I’ve gotten the odd kill because of it but I can’t say I’m a fan of them. Also I think they just make things too complicated for many people.

Now thrusters for me is as big as the Sprint animation. Personally I think thrusters cause a lot of problems. They slow down gameplay by drawing out combat, I don’t care what anyone says but to me they’ve always felt like get out of jail free card and the biggest thing for me is I feel thrusters make Halo too “chaotic” by that I mean players that aren’t as good at the game, say casuals, find it too difficult to track the opposition when engaged in combat. I have many friends who are casuals of Halo and they have all said something along these lines. I might not be a champion but I think I’m pretty good at Halo 5 (look at my service record if you must) and feel like I understand what they mean.

I think the Spartan abilities in general but especially thrust just make Halo too chaotic for a lot of casual gamers. In my opinion one of the reasons what made the past halos so big and appealing was that casual players could play them and be “good” feel like they’re progressing and most importantly have fun!! But the older Halos still appealed to more skilled players at the same time too. The games overall were simple to learn difficult to master as the saying goes. Where as in Halo 5 I feel like that skill Gap between the two has just gotten so big. Things like the Spartan abilities just make the game too complex for a lot of people if you know what I mean. Again I know a lot of people who are casual Halo players or were at one point and I’ve said since Halo Reach the Halo games are too complex now there’s too much to remember. I think there’s something to that. I’m not saying it’s too complex for me just to be clear (I’m kind of a hardcore gamer, I’ve play games at high levels of play, been tournaments before etc) but for a lot other people they are which in doing so means they don’t have as much fun at them which means they won’t play them as much.

I think the UI in general needs to be completely overhauled, especially the pre-game Lobby… still can’t mute individual players even though I could 10 plus years ago lolol I think it needs to be a mix of H3, Reach and H2A.

Another big feature that I think needs to be in is interactive environments like H2A had. Shooting down chunks of ice for example on someone and killing them is fun and extremely satisfying!!! They are not game-breaking features either. I don’t want crazy things like in Battlefield where you can destroy a dam and it changes the entire map, just small things like what they did in H2A and even that one map of Halo 4 that was DLC, I can’t remember the name, started with a V I think… If Pro players don’t want this feature, then simply have it disabled in that playlist, done. I don’t know a single person who didn’t like that feature in H2A casual or higher skilled players.

Firefight needs to be a thing and Halo 6. You can have classic firefight AKA ODST and Warzone firefight that uses REQs because let’s face it, they aren’t going anywhere. You could do a lot in Warzone firefight. Make it a mix of firefight in horde mode from Gears. I’ll gladly go into more detail with this if someone wants I’ve done it before.

Warzone as it is now I would scrap in entirely. Neat idea but a waste of time in my opinion and they should focus on firefight, BTB and developer made Maps instead.

That said developer made Maps also needs to be much more of a focus and Halo 6. No more of these “remix” maps. As far as I’m concerned, because of Halo 5, 343I now have a rep of making poor quality maps partly because of their decisions to do remix Maps.

I’ll just end with stuff, there as I got a little sidetracked and off-topic so I won’t get into other features and things about the game, sorry for the long post.

15

> 2535415305234137;13:
> while I understand where you are coming from. I feel like clamber is a good addition to the game. Playing titanfall today really reminded me of how smooth the gameplay is. Its actually ridiculous how well respawn made the smoothness and transition of movement. What I’m getting at is that id like halo 5 to have that kind of smoothness (not the abilities but the concept of the smoothness of the movement) and clamber really adds to the smoothness. I’ve managed to pull off some really crazy combos of movement to parkour and escape combat and they all involve clamber.

The thing is, movement without Clamber is perfectly smooth, if you’re good at it. I didn’t like Titanfall’s movement precisely because it all kind of just flowed together without me really putting much effort into it. And while I understand that that may be intentional—so that even if you’re not amazing, you can still integrate running around the walls to your combat without having to worry about making a small mistake—I don’t like that kind of movement. If my movement is smooth, it should be so because of practice, not because the game is correcting my mistakes behind the scenes. That’s my perspective.

16

I like the concept behind thruster pack, but I think it wasn’t executed as well as it could’ve been. What I would suggest is a wall-kick ability, which would work something like this:

  • when in physical contact with a vertical surface, the player can press the jump button to propel themselves up and outward from that surface / is an extension of jump

  • horizontal angle when leaving a surface could be dependent on direction of joystick /or/ perpendicular to the surface (haven’t quite decided what would be better)