Friendly Fire (POLL)

[Naqser]

@Spikanor

look at RIP lazy post on this thread its the best data and claim you can get.

Alrighty then, let’s do this.

Your claim was that most players who want FF back is to enable them to grief.
That means that the majority, and not with a small difference to the minority either, is of that opinion.

Your evidence, is a single person’s post.
That single post is then outnumbered by those wanting FF but not to grief. Whose poster then went ahead and Liked my post about throwing him into “Purgatory”.

@Spikanor

that some people wane see friendly fire come’s back that there is no grenate spam or rocket launcher spam i can understand that good.

It’s just not that, buuuut

@Spikanor

but most off then and i mean not all of then that wane see it back are also the one’s that has abuse it and if its back in halo infinite that there going to abuse it again to bully other people again like in the old day’s.
so then again its thanks to the toxic players that abuse then that there is no friendly fire in halo any more.

You use unsubstantiated claims to smear the “FF on” crowd.
Dangerous rhetoric which potentially grind any discussion to a halt when that is repeated ad nauseum as no positive argument as good enough to go over “Doesn’t matter, you just want to grief” or “You’re lying, all you want is to grief”.

@Spikanor

let me tell you this so that you can understand it good.
in halo 3, halo reach and halo 4 i have see it with my own eye’s that some people have abuse the friendly fire for the stupids reason.

Yeah hi, any scenario you want to “illustrate” to me, is extremely likely I’ve experienced it.
Team killing for weapons, check.
Team killing for vehicles, check.
Group of people team killing the rest of the team for fun, check.
Lone players griefing, check.
You’re not coming with any new exclusive information I hadn’t thought of ages ago.

@Spikanor

you not wane know how many time’s i get betray for a power weapon i got since i was faster then him and he betray’s me for that power weapon he wane have that i got.

Oh but yes I do, I really do want to know, and then in contrast how many times you haven’t been betrayed for a power weapon.
And I want actual verifiable numbers.
We can argue with anecdotes, which won’t lead anywhere good.
Or, you can provide numbers.
I know I try to.

@Spikanor

its much better if friendly fire stay away from the halo serie’s for good.

Meaning less depth.

@Spikanor

and if people wane see it return there most blame the one’s that have abuse it in the past halo game’s since its thanks to then that there is no friendly fire any more in halo since there have abuse it the wrong bad way for something like fun.

Or you know, we champion for a better punishment system, higher quality betrayal detection, and accept that if we play with randoms it may sometimes not be with players who play as we like.

[esnoox]

@Spikanor

bully other people again like in the old day’s.

Since when do you play and how many matches have you played? FF abuse was never a real issue in Halo…
And to claim people who want FF back are Teamkillers and Bullies is just audacious.

On the rest, I fully agree with @Naqser. Thanks for the great posts, nothing more to say.

[Spikanor]

@Naqser

Your evidence, is a single person’s post.
That single post is then outnumbered by those wanting FF but not to grief. Whose poster then went ahead and Liked my post about throwing him into “Purgatory”.

if 1 singel player tells he like’s to be that toxic in a match then he is showing also at the same time the best proof there is why something like friendly fire has been remove from the halo serie’s since its thanks to that type players that think its fun.

and this is a good exemple now.
if you own the skewer power weapon and i wane have the skewer power weapon also.
then i can betray you and steal your skewer power weapon since i wane have it.
i think you are then not happy at all and are more pist off on me that i betray you for a power weapon you pick up faster then me.
if you are not happy if there do things like this against you then you also understand how it feels when its happing to the other players for stupid reasons like that get betray by there own teammate’s.
and at the same time you understand how people have feel it in the old day’s.

the point i make with this exemple is if you hate it that people do things like that against you then you know also how others have feel about it what has happing the same thing.

@esnoox

Since when do you play and how many matches have you played? FF abuse was never a real issue in Halo…

it was maybe not post it on the forum back then but it was a problem back in halo 3, reach and halo 4 and i mean not MCC i mean the orginal versions the Xbox 360 version’s.

@esnoox

And to claim people who want FF back are Teamkillers and Bullies is just audacious.

like i told before its not all of then that wane see friendly fire return are teamkillers or toxic players.
but there are some that are that type and only wane see it return for only that reason to do things like that again.
that some bad people have done things like teamkilling and there think its fun in the past means that now all the players that not have done it also pay the price for it since some people think it was fun back then.

and to add this also.
this is now why we need a developer to explane things to us why there have remove the friendly fire in this case from the halo serie’s.
since in the end topic’s like this or the KBM vs controler or Xbox vs PC only become the new old school VS new school discusion threads that will go on for years with no end in sight.

[Naqser]

@Spikanor

if 1 singel player tells he like’s to be that toxic in a match then he is showing also at the same time the best proof there is why something like friendly fire has been remove from the halo serie’s since its thanks to that type players that think its fun.

One post among several is not most which you claimed to be the case among pro-FF people.

@Spikanor

and this is a good exemple now.

I have no idea why you think you feel the need to school me in how Power Weapon betraying works, or the feelings I would experience.
As I already said I’ve experienced it here.

@Naqser

Yeah hi, any scenario you want to “illustrate” to me, is extremely likely I’ve experienced it.
Team killing for weapons, check.
Team killing for vehicles, check.
Group of people team killing the rest of the team for fun, check.
Lone players griefing, check.
You’re not coming with any new exclusive information I hadn’t thought of ages ago.

@Spikanor

the point i make with this exemple is if you hate it that people do things like that against you then you know also how others have feel about it what has happing the same thing.

Really, educating me on empathy and sympathy?
Tell me my life-story, please.

@Spikanor

it was maybe not post it on the forum back then but it was a problem back in halo 3, reach and halo 4

Yes, there were posts on FF back in the day.
Also, surprise surprise, Halo 4 had Friendly Fire disabled, so it can’t have been an issue in that game.

@Spikanor

like i told before its not all of then that wane see friendly fire return are teamkillers or toxic players.

You said most, remains a mystery how you came to that conclusion.

@Spikanor

but there are some that are that type and only wane see it return for only that reason to do things like that again.

Some? What happened to most?

@Spikanor

that some bad people have done things like teamkilling and there think its fun in the past means that now all the players that not have done it also pay the price for it since some people think it was fun back then.

How long do you think a Team Killer has the energy to go on team killing?

@Spikanor

this is now why we need a developer to explane things to us why there have remove the friendly fire in this case from the halo serie’s

So your explanation isn’t true then?

[Spikanor]

@Naqser

I have no idea why you think you feel the need to school me in how Power Weapon betraying works, or the feelings I would experience.
As I already said I’ve experienced it here.

then you know also why some people are against the idea that friendly fire most return since there never ever wane see something like that again in the matchmaking since there have see it with there own eye’s what for problems you get from it.

then let me ask you this.
if friendly fire can return to halo infinite do you agree also that people that abuse it by teamkilling for power weapons or something else stupid like that most get automatic the prem bann to show that things like that get the max punishment for it and make a exemple for the other players in the communety if you do something like that what you can get as punishment for doing something like that stupids and destroy the fun in the halo game’s for other people.

@Naqser

So your explanation isn’t true then?

do you think that the halo communety most become friendly with each other or there most become always split in 2 groups and start more a war discusion about things always.
you know that in the crossplay discusion you have the Xbox communety more blame’s the PC communety for the cheaters problem and the PC communety is not happy about the blame there get only that there are some people there that cant play fair most all the PC communety then get the blame?

in the KBM vs controler is it more worse since you have more a input fight between then since there both thing the other is to strong and there own input needs a buff.
the controlers players tell always that the KBM is to strong and there own input needs a buff.
same for the KBM players that blame there own input is weak and the controler input is strong.

you also know really good that the old school vs new school discusion for halo infinite has keep going for 6 long years that after halo infinite has release last year the discusion about it was close and end.
why you think a lot off other discusion topic’s are getting call now a day’s that its the old school vs new school all over again.
since people got sick from that discusion that has run for 6 years and there wane end it now a day’s faster and its the developers that can do it by making things clear and explane the reason why there have choose for it.

@Naqser

Yes, there were posts on FF back in the day.
Also, surprise surprise, Halo 4 had Friendly Fire disabled, so it can’t have been an issue in that game.

i have look in some old threads from halo 4 on the forum and it seems it was true so its my part i got it wrong that halo 4 got friendy fire on when it was disabled.

but what the old threads also has showing is that the reason why the friendly fire system most stay away for good has not been chance since its the same reason like it was 10 years ago.
and that after 10 years the friendly fire has never return at all and has stay for good away from the halo serie’s is proof by looking in the old threads from back then.

[Naqser]

@Spikanor

then you know also why some people are against the idea that friendly fire most return since there never ever wane see something like that again in the matchmaking since there have see it with there own eye’s what for problems you get from it.

Point out where I’ve said I’ve got no clue why they don’t want FF on.

@Spikanor

then let me ask you this.
if friendly fire can return to halo infinite do you agree also that people that abuse it by teamkilling for power weapons or something else stupid

Of course they will, have I said otherwise?
It’s not like Infinite doesn’t contain people who do stupid stuff.

@Spikanor

most get automatic the prem bann to show that things like that get the max punishment for it and make a exemple for the other players in the communety if you do something like that what you can get as punishment for doing something like that stupids and destroy the fun in the halo game’s for other people.

No.
And if you bother to read I’ve already posted on how to deal with it.

@Spikanor

do you think that the halo communety most become friendly with each other or there most become always split in 2 groups and start more a war discusion about things always.

I think gameplay should be dictated on the premise that people play as intended.

Differing opinions will always exist and there’s no going around it. You can’t require me to sacrifice my fun for your fun, and then smile as I do so. Because I don’t require you to.

@Spikanor

you also know really good that the old school vs new school discusion for halo infinite has keep going for 6 long years that after halo infinite has release last year the discusion about it was close and end.

Wow, that discussion will resurface at the latest when Infinite’s lifespan comes to an end.
Infinite just happened to be in such an utterly poor state that it took priority over everything else.

@Spikanor

since people got sick from that discusion that has run for 6 years and there wane end it now a day’s faster and its the developers that can do it by making things clear and explane the reason why there have choose for it.

I’ll gladly jump straight back in when it comes back.
And as evident with the past Halo’s, what the developer does and intends isn’t always the best choices now is it?
Ordnance, Warzone, SpOps, Infinite MTXs etc.

@Spikanor

but what the old threads also has showing is that the reason why the friendly fire system most stay away for good has not been chance since its the same reason like it was 10 years ago.
and that after 10 years the friendly fire has never return at all and has stay for good away from the halo serie’s is proof by looking in the old threads from back then.

Same arguments then as now with people exaggerating the prevalence of team killer while not supporting a better system to detect and punish griefers.

Old threads are not proof of anything else than this debate went on then as well.

[PL_Zywy]

FF when playing with randoms is a huge no-go in my books, it just never works and if anything, this will create tremendous amount of trolling, teammates will kill each other for spanker or energy sword for example.

Player collision, as I mentioned in another thread, should be off when in comes to teammates so you don’t push and interrupt each other, but turned on for the enemies, as of now you can just walk through someone, hit a melee and get a ninja, it’s a joke honestly. Also make nades and other projectiles go through your teammates, because without collision they can just walk through you while you’re tossing a nade only to have it bounce off their back straight in your face, or firing skewer and have the needle attached onto your teammates butt.

[Spikanor]

i not care at all if there bring the friendly fire back or not since its 343 call.
same back then with the old school vs new school its 343 game so there call the shots from it what there wane see and what not.
and if friendly fire is one off the things there never wane add in the game then its there call to do so.

and since people all have been calling since halo 4 that was release 10 years ago all that friendly fire most return and halo 5 never got it in its life spam means that its also going to happing in halo infinite that there keep it off and never come’s back.
for MCC i not know it if there also have remove it compleet or not.

and one thing warzone in halo 5 is one off the most request mode’s same with firefight that people wane see return in halo infinite.
and sure without the REQ system since nobody like’s that system in the first place.

[Naqser]

@PL_Zywy

FF when playing with randoms is a huge no-go in my books, it just never works and if anything, this will create tremendous amount of trolling, teammates will kill each other for spanker or energy sword for example.

And yet, while it happened, it wasn’t exactly that common.
On top of which, having a proper detection and punishment system in place would remove griefers from the normal player pool, and hopefully teach them a valuable lesson at the same time.

@PL_Zywy

Player collision, as I mentioned in another thread, should be off when in comes to teammates so you don’t push and interrupt each other

Players are part of the map, they act as obstacles to you, or benefits you depending on how you use your team mates.
Non-collision makes the gameplay more shallow.

@PL_Zywy

but turned on for the enemies, as of now you can just walk through someone, hit a melee and get a ninja, it’s a joke honestly

The same can be said for non-collision with allies. Ridiculous when enemies run through each other and is safe because they phased through someone else to tank bullets meant for them.

@PL_Zywy

Also make nades and other projectiles go through your teammates, because without collision they can just walk through you while you’re tossing a nade only to have it bounce off their back straight in your face, or firing skewer and have the needle attached onto your teammates butt.

At the same time, make allies 10% visible to you so you can actually see what you’re hitting because it’d be so annoying when someone is in your line of sight. /s

Or if allies are so annoying, play FFA?

@Spikanor

i not care at all if there bring the friendly fire back or not since its 343 call.

Somehow I doubt it.

@Spikanor

same back then with the old school vs new school

Trying hard to kickstart that discussion again with how many references you’ve given it.

@Spikanor

and one thing warzone in halo 5 is one off the most request mode’s same with firefight that people wane see return in halo infinite.

Don’t know where you’re moving around but Warzone has been far from one of the most requested modes.
Firefight hasn’t even been up there

[PL_Zywy]

All on all, keep in mind your playing with/agains totally random people, trying to balance something with naive hope that the players will figure out themselves what to do and what not to do by punishing the won’t work, they simply don’t care, if anything, it’ll push even more people away from the game, like the current bans aren’t enough already …

[HozerDude]

PC Version

In all of my maps since Halo Combat Evolved I have had Friendly Fire OFF and always will be off. My friends play for fun that’s it. PERIOD!

[FeudalPhoenix10]

if people are worried about certain players team killing maybe instead of banning them it disables their friendly fire for the rest of the match, or disable it then ban them after the game’s over.

[HozerDude]

@FeudalPhoenix10

it disables their friendly fire

Well if we had some damn Admin/Hosting tools like we had in Halo MCC! We could ban people and or kick people BUT NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO you cant to that!

[kkolossal]

Yeah, I don’t think a test playlist would hurt that much, but the problem with that idea is 343 doesn’t really like adding new playlists to the matchmaker. Especially a Hardcore-styled playlist. They could let players test it in Custom Games or maybe use the Xbox Insider testing.

Unfortunately, my gut is telling me that 343 isn’t worried about changing the Friendly Fire (or player collision/outlines) at all.

[Naqser]

@PL_Zywy

All on all, keep in mind your playing with/agains totally random people, trying to balance something with naive hope that the players will figure out themselves what to do and what not to do by punishing the won’t work

Really? We’re playing with randoms? Why did no one tell me 20+ years ago?

Naive?
Did you even compare the Purgatory system I suggested to the current Ban one?

Would you rather sit through X amount of matches consisting of griefers where you get no rewards and any actually awesome moves you make and want to show to others have a massive watermark on it showing that you’re in the naughty pool, than be banned for X amount of hours / days that you can simple wait out by the simple act of doing other things?

[LushApollo44933]

I bet a lot of people here talking agist FF are the same players who spam grenades with no care. Sorry yall are toxic af and need to be wrangled in. Either way, Halo isn’t Halo without friendly fire and player Collison. Infinite missing these two features is a huge L.

I’d also like FF in ranked to be stronger. Am i the only one who feels like FF does not do 100% damage it should?

[DRad2011]

@Naqser

Your claim was that most players who want FF back is to enable them to grief.

Me Personally (the guy who made the post) I do not, NOT want this so I can Grief. Thx you

[MorseyBaby]

100% agree. FF requires far more tactical and skillful play, communication, and cooperation. That’s what we want to encourage

[WSerg]

i prefer friendly fire to be on without griefing anyone. games without friendly fire is boring in my opinion and takes something away from my enjoyment of a game (any game, not just halo)
i also can deal with the occasional griefer, which didn’t happen nearly as often like some in this thread are claiming.
i also think it very intressting and telling about some here, that they obviously aren’t interrested in a conversation and are just ignoring responses they get. i’ve seen it mostly by people who don’t want FF back (not all)

[SuperKittyLeia]

I totally agree. I definitely think people would be pleasantly surprised at the diminished grenade spam if FF was on. You don’t want to get betrayal booted.

Also, can we get actual player collision? I don’t me the soft collision we currently have with enemies. I mean real collision like in the old games. Gosh it was so fun jumping on team mates to reach areas you couldn’t otherwise. Anyone remember butterflying in Halo 2?