Every game type in Halo 5 should have Friend Fire enabled, just like the previous games did, Halo 4 did away with most of it because everyone complained and complained. So what can be done to fix this issue?
Example: Match starts, two players run to the sniper and one picks it up. The other player gets upset and kills for the sniper, solution? The game will immediately boot him from the game without the player doing so. Accidental betrayals need to be monitored somehow to not players to get booted for killing a teammate. Solution? Maybe giving players a 3 betrayal penalty. After 3 betrayals then the game kicks you, no questions asked.
> Every game type in Halo 5 should have Friend Fire enabled, just like the previous games did, Halo 4 did away with most of it because everyone complained and complained. So what can be done to fix this issue?
>
> Example: Match starts, two players run to the sniper and one picks it up. <mark>The other player gets upset and kills for the sniper, solution?</mark> The game will immediately boot him from the game without the player doing so. Accidental betrayals need to be monitored somehow to not players to get booted for killing a teammate. Solution? Maybe giving players a 3 betrayal penalty. After 3 betrayals then the game kicks you, no questions asked.
How will the game tell the difference between a genuine betrayal and an accidental one?
I support friendly fire being enabled, but the tricky part to that is implementing a satisfactory betrayal-booting system. How would it be decided if a betrayal is purposeful or accidental? How many strikes should a player get?
simple if that guy who killed his teammate for the sniper should let the other guy have the option to kick him instantly not after two betrays after one, I’m pretty sure people can see the difference between doing it on purpose or accident. yes there will be times you get booted even though it wasn’t on purpose but that will only be like 5% of the time
> > Every game type in Halo 5 should have Friend Fire enabled, just like the previous games did, Halo 4 did away with most of it because everyone complained and complained. So what can be done to fix this issue?
> >
> > Example: Match starts, two players run to the sniper and one picks it up. <mark>The other player gets upset and kills for the sniper, solution?</mark> The game will immediately boot him from the game without the player doing so. Accidental betrayals need to be monitored somehow to not players to get booted for killing a teammate. Solution? Maybe giving players a 3 betrayal penalty. After 3 betrayals then the game kicks you, no questions asked.
>
> How will the game tell the difference between a genuine betrayal and an accidental one?
>
> Accidents happen, even at the start of the game.
Type of weapon used to kill friendly, how much time used to kill friendly, distance from friendly to closest enemy, direction friendly is heading relative to the betrayers etc.
While a system can’t detect the intention of the betrayal, some parameters can be used to actually make a sort of guess wether or not a betrayal was accidental or not.
I’ve betrayed plenty of allies in Reach with the Wraith, when they’ve jumped infront of the Wraith as I’ve driven around or when I’ve lobbed a mortar to the other side of the map at the start of the game only to see a Ghost head in the same direction and get hit by it, of course not intentional for either part, they’ve never been looking to get betrayed and I’m not that good at aiming with the Wraith.
Systems can be implemented to better determine wether or not something is an intentional betrayal or not.
And for the heck of it, assign the boot button to something else than a “Change Loadout”, “Instant Respawn” or whatever normal action players do when they’re dead due to an enemy. Getting the boot screen when I’m about to instantly respawn just makes me boot someone I didn’t mean to. That has happened so many times.
Put it on one of the directions on the D-pad and then have a Confirmation Question.
No!
It needs to be disabled. Usually if I have the power weapon in Reach, those -Yoinks!- would always just unshield me the whole round, even if I jump off the cliff with the sniper. Or PP when I have wraith.
It clearly NEEDS to be disabled, because there will always be people who love to destroy anothers experience. That’s humanity…
> yes there will be times you get booted even though it wasn’t on purpose but that will only be like 5% of the time
Play Heavies. Then return with a different answer.
In all seriousness, though, I share the OP’s opinion. FF should be ON universally. When you play a Halo game, you should expect that. Big Team is a great example, where everyone gets used to Infinity settings, but when Team is selected, people still fire rockets at a single enemy surrounded by friendlies. It needs to be ON all the time.
With that said, betrayal booting logic needs improvement. The current method prevents neither griefing nor unjustified booting. Some ideas:
Melees: There is no reason to allow melee damage to friendlies. Virtually 100% of the time this is done intentionally. Meleeing a friendly on accident is nearly impossible. The number of times where it is even remotely possible to be attempting to melee an enemy player but instead end up hitting a friendly are so few as to be irrelevant. This would apply to melees only - not to other CQC weapons. If you can’t control where you aim your shotgun, you deserve the boot.
Threshold: If there is no enemy player within your FoV, doing damage to friendlies should count at least double toward the threshold. While this won’t stop someone from tailing you with an AR and depleting your shields to the point where the first enemy shot kills you, it will allow you to boot someone who pours round after round into you every time you respawn when no one else is around, or someone who sticks nades to you whenever you board a vehicle.
Tradeoff: Damage you do to friendlies should be reduced by the amount of damage done to enemies during that same action. So if, for instance, you are playing on Opus and you have the rocket launcher and one of your buddies is in the process of getting assassinated with the ENTIRE ENEMY TEAM surrounding him and you blow all of them up for the overkill extermination . . . well, you shouldn’t get booted for that. Yes, I realize it’s still a betrayal, but the damage to your team really is offset by the damage to your enemies.
Love Taps: Changes need to be made to the damage dealt by vehicles. You can fall three miles unscathed, but clip your buddy at 5 MPH with the wing of your Ghost and you send his shattered corpse into orbit. There should be a minimum relative speed threshold for vehicles to deal damage.
Vehicular Pinball: If my hog gets blown up, its carcass should not cause a betrayal. If the carcass kills someone, that kill should go to the shooter who blew me up. If my hog gets launched and lands on someone, that kill should go to the shooter who launched me. Some situations might be quite tricky to distinguish between betrayal and not, and I’m fine defaulting to betrayal rather than make it uber-complicated. But the vast majority of unwarranted vehicle betrayals can be eliminated.
And lastly, there should be some kind of long-term tracking of betrayals. Accidental ones happen only occasionally. A consistent pattern of betrayals = griefing. And griefing deserves a nice, long ban.
It’s unreasonable to expect an algorithm to accurately respond to such a nuanced situation, especially when you consider that griefers will be actively attempting to manipulate the system. The best course of action is to give the betrayed player the opportunity to boot.
One small tweak I’d add is to disable the boot button for half a second or so; more than once, I’ve instinctively pressed X upon seeing a menu pop up and kicked a player that didn’t deserve it.
To be honest, in my opinion the best solution to know was a betrayal intentional or accidental is to add a kill-cam sort of thing after you get betrayed that shows the viewpoint of the one who betrayed you, so you can see was it accidental or intentional, then at the end of the clip you can decide do you want to kick the person or not.
> To be honest, in my opinion the best solution to know was a betrayal intentional or accidental is to add a kill-cam sort of thing after you get betrayed that shows the viewpoint of the one who betrayed you, so you can see was it accidental or intentional, then at the end of the clip you can decide do you want to kick the person or not.
I wouldnt mind the killcam solution because yes, it can show whether something was on purpose or accidental. Then from there the choice is yours to decide.
> No!
> It needs to be disabled. Usually if I have the power weapon in Reach, those -Yoinks!- would always just unshield me the whole round, even if I jump off the cliff with the sniper. Or PP when I have wraith.
> It clearly NEEDS to be disabled, because there will always be people who love to destroy anothers experience. That’s humanity…
Disabling Friendly Fire allows people to be completely reckless when team mates are in close proximity.
Ever had that moment when you’re about to fire a Rocket Launcher and your team mate is in the way? You COULD get 3 kills, but you COULD betray your team mate and drag your score down by 1 and risk getting kicked. This punishes the team mate for being in a bad position and obviously you for killing said team mate.
If Friendly Fire was disabled, you could easily fire the Rocket, get the Triple Kill and your team mate would live. This doesn’t punish the team mate for being in a bad position.
> > yes there will be times you get booted even though it wasn’t on purpose but that will only be like 5% of the time
>
> Play Heavies. Then return with a different answer.
>
>
> In all seriousness, though, I share the OP’s opinion. FF should be ON universally. When you play a Halo game, you should expect that. Big Team is a great example, where everyone gets used to Infinity settings, but when Team is selected, people still fire rockets at a single enemy surrounded by friendlies. It needs to be ON all the time.
>
> With that said, betrayal booting logic needs improvement. The current method prevents neither griefing nor unjustified booting. Some ideas:
>
> 1. Melees: There is no reason to allow melee damage to friendlies. Virtually 100% of the time this is done intentionally. Meleeing a friendly on accident is nearly impossible. The number of times where it is even remotely possible to be attempting to melee an enemy player but instead end up hitting a friendly are so few as to be irrelevant. This would apply to melees only - not to other CQC weapons. If you can’t control where you aim your shotgun, you deserve the boot.
>
> 2. Threshold: If there is no enemy player within your FoV, doing damage to friendlies should count at least double toward the threshold. While this won’t stop someone from tailing you with an AR and depleting your shields to the point where the first enemy shot kills you, it will allow you to boot someone who pours round after round into you every time you respawn when no one else is around, or someone who sticks nades to you whenever you board a vehicle.
>
> 3. Tradeoff: Damage you do to friendlies should be reduced by the amount of damage done to enemies during that same action. So if, for instance, you are playing on Opus and you have the rocket launcher and one of your buddies is in the process of getting assassinated with the ENTIRE ENEMY TEAM surrounding him and you blow all of them up for the overkill extermination . . . well, you shouldn’t get booted for that. Yes, I realize it’s still a betrayal, but the damage to your team really is offset by the damage to your enemies.
>
> 4. Love Taps: Changes need to be made to the damage dealt by vehicles. You can fall three miles unscathed, but clip your buddy at 5 MPH with the wing of your Ghost and you send his shattered corpse into orbit. There should be a minimum relative speed threshold for vehicles to deal damage.
>
> 5. Vehicular Pinball: If my hog gets blown up, its carcass should not cause a betrayal. If the carcass kills someone, that kill should go to the shooter who blew me up. If my hog gets launched and lands on someone, that kill should go to the shooter who launched me. Some situations might be quite tricky to distinguish between betrayal and not, and I’m fine defaulting to betrayal rather than make it uber-complicated. But the vast majority of unwarranted vehicle betrayals can be eliminated.
>
>
> And lastly, there should be some kind of long-term tracking of betrayals. Accidental ones happen only occasionally. A consistent pattern of betrayals = griefing. And griefing deserves a nice, long ban.
GO WORK FOR 343.
NOW.
All of these are great, and I could definitely see working. I was just about to suggest something very exact to your ‘Threshold’ idea.
Changes to vehicles of course need to be made. Coast from the hill of Ragnarok to Blue Base. Tap teammate. BETRAYAL.
A betrayal record is a must. Keeping track of betrayals, how often they happen a match, a day, a week.
> > No!
> > It needs to be disabled. Usually if I have the power weapon in Reach, those -Yoinks!- would always just unshield me the whole round, even if I jump off the cliff with the sniper. Or PP when I have wraith.
> > It clearly NEEDS to be disabled, because there will always be people who love to destroy anothers experience. That’s humanity…
>
> Disabling Friendly Fire allows people to be completely reckless when team mates are in close proximity.
>
> Ever had that moment when you’re about to fire a Rocket Launcher and your team mate is in the way? You COULD get 3 kills, but you COULD betray your team mate and drag your score down by 1 and risk getting kicked. This punishes the team mate for being in a bad position and obviously you for killing said team mate.
>
> If Friendly Fire was disabled, you could easily fire the Rocket, get the Triple Kill and your team mate would live. This doesn’t punish the team mate for being in a bad position.
Actually, no, in several thousand matches I can’t remember ever coming across a situation like this. Though if I did, the clear correct answer is to fire the rocket and pick up the net positive kill tally. Not to mention your teammate would almost certainly die anyway with so many enemies in close proximity. It’s not the controversial situation you’re making it out to be, and you certainly shouldn’t be punished for practical thinking.
…
As it happens, I’m not in favour of friendly fire removal, but only because it’s immersion-breaking to be hit by a grenade and take no damage. Feels wrong. I realize this sounds like an incredibly weak argument, but I can’t think of any better way to express it.
> > > No!
> > > It needs to be disabled. Usually if I have the power weapon in Reach, those -Yoinks!- would always just unshield me the whole round, even if I jump off the cliff with the sniper. Or PP when I have wraith.
> > > It clearly NEEDS to be disabled, because there will always be people who love to destroy anothers experience. That’s humanity…
> >
> > Disabling Friendly Fire allows people to be completely reckless when team mates are in close proximity.
> >
> > Ever had that moment when you’re about to fire a Rocket Launcher and your team mate is in the way? You COULD get 3 kills, but you COULD betray your team mate and drag your score down by 1 and risk getting kicked. This punishes the team mate for being in a bad position and obviously you for killing said team mate.
> >
> > If Friendly Fire was disabled, you could easily fire the Rocket, get the Triple Kill and your team mate would live. This doesn’t punish the team mate for being in a bad position.
>
> Actually, no, in several thousand matches I can’t remember ever coming across a situation like this. Though if I did, the clear correct answer is to fire the rocket and pick up the net positive kill tally. <mark>Not to mention your teammate would almost certainly die anyway with so many enemies in close proximity.</mark>
This situation happened to me in Infinity Slayer on Halo 4. I fired a Rocket at multiple enemies while my team mate was right there. I picked up the kills and my team mate left the battle… alive.
His poor positioning wasn’t punished because friendly fire was disabled.
> > > > No!
> > > > It needs to be disabled. Usually if I have the power weapon in Reach, those -Yoinks!- would always just unshield me the whole round, even if I jump off the cliff with the sniper. Or PP when I have wraith.
> > > > It clearly NEEDS to be disabled, because there will always be people who love to destroy anothers experience. That’s humanity…
> > >
> > > Disabling Friendly Fire allows people to be completely reckless when team mates are in close proximity.
> > >
> > > Ever had that moment when you’re about to fire a Rocket Launcher and your team mate is in the way? You COULD get 3 kills, but you COULD betray your team mate and drag your score down by 1 and risk getting kicked. This punishes the team mate for being in a bad position and obviously you for killing said team mate.
> > >
> > > If Friendly Fire was disabled, you could easily fire the Rocket, get the Triple Kill and your team mate would live. This doesn’t punish the team mate for being in a bad position.
> >
> > Actually, no, in several thousand matches I can’t remember ever coming across a situation like this. Though if I did, the clear correct answer is to fire the rocket and pick up the net positive kill tally. <mark>Not to mention your teammate would almost certainly die anyway with so many enemies in close proximity.</mark>
>
> This situation happened to me in Infinity Slayer on Halo 4. I fired a Rocket at multiple enemies while my team mate was right there. I picked up the kills and my team mate left the battle… alive.
>
> His poor positioning wasn’t punished because friendly fire was disabled.
Congratulations on completely missing the point, which was that with FF off, he would die whether or not you fired the rocket, thus making his death irrelevant to which course of action you choose to take.
> > > > > No!
> > > > > It needs to be disabled. Usually if I have the power weapon in Reach, those -Yoinks!- would always just unshield me the whole round, even if I jump off the cliff with the sniper. Or PP when I have wraith.
> > > > > It clearly NEEDS to be disabled, because there will always be people who love to destroy anothers experience. That’s humanity…
> > > >
> > > > Disabling Friendly Fire allows people to be completely reckless when team mates are in close proximity.
> > > >
> > > > Ever had that moment when you’re about to fire a Rocket Launcher and your team mate is in the way? You COULD get 3 kills, but you COULD betray your team mate and drag your score down by 1 and risk getting kicked. This punishes the team mate for being in a bad position and obviously you for killing said team mate.
> > > >
> > > > If Friendly Fire was disabled, you could easily fire the Rocket, get the Triple Kill and your team mate would live. This doesn’t punish the team mate for being in a bad position.
> > >
> > > Actually, no, in several thousand matches I can’t remember ever coming across a situation like this. Though if I did, the clear correct answer is to fire the rocket and pick up the net positive kill tally. <mark>Not to mention your teammate would almost certainly die anyway with so many enemies in close proximity.</mark>
> >
> > This situation happened to me in Infinity Slayer on Halo 4. I fired a Rocket at multiple enemies while my team mate was right there. I picked up the kills and my team mate left the battle… alive.
> >
> > His poor positioning wasn’t punished because friendly fire was disabled.
>
> Congratulations on completely missing the point, which was that with FF off, he would die whether or not you fired the rocket, thus making his death irrelevant to which course of action you choose to take.
Sure, he’s going to die either way. Don’t think I ever stated that otherwise.
Could work like this: You’re waiting to not shoot so you don’t kill your team mate and only get 2 of the 3 points. While you’re waiting to fire, the enemy kills you, you lose Rockets and you both die and the three enemies are still alive with Rockets.
> To be honest, in my opinion the best solution to know was a betrayal intentional or accidental is to add a kill-cam sort of thing after you get betrayed that shows the viewpoint of the one who betrayed you, so you can see was it accidental or intentional, then at the end of the clip you can decide do you want to kick the person or not.
This is a must, as well. I forgot to add it to my list. I can’t remember who first proposed it (it was in that killcam thread a month ago), but to whomever proposed it, good job.
