In an Anniversary video on YouTube, Frank O’Connor is interviewed saying, “The Halo fan base is really disparate. It’s a fool’s errand to predict what they want. You just try to put your heart and soul into the project and hope the come along for the ride.”
Now I like O’Connor, as you all do. But something he said bothered me, about the disparate/fragmented nature of the Halo fan base. This problem isn’t the fault of the fans. It’s the fault of Bungie and 343. And it’s a problem that needs solving.
Instead of blaming finicky fans, maybe O’Connor should take the blame himself. “We changed the flavor and the DNA of Halo in Reach, and now we have fans who love that approach … but we have alienated even more fans. That’s on us.”
It would be nice to hear him say that.
For O’Connor to instead say, “ah, there’s just no way to please everyone–let’s just do what we (343) wants and hope they follow us,” seems like a big cheesy cop-out. The problem is, both fan bases aren’t going to follow 343 into Halo 4.
I know personally, if in Halo 4 we get the mess of bloom/no bloom, AA/no AA playlists (not these exact playlists–but a smorgasbord of competing game style choices) that are currently fracturing multiplayer, I won’t buy the game. 343 gets a pass with Anniversary, because it’s a throwback. But Halo 4 needs to be one game, with one coherent philosophy. 343 must choose between the fan bases to make one good game. A choice must be made.
Do you think the Halo fan base is impossible to please, and “there’s no predicting what we want” from Halo 4? Is this an ominous sign of how 343 is approaching Halo 4 ideas?
Or maybe you should just worry less and just let the 343 guys do their best in making Halo 4. Besides, its a suprised on what they are goin to cook up in the next big game.
> Or maybe you should just worry less and just let the 343 guys do their best in making Halo 4. Besides, its a suprised on what they are goin to cook up in the next big game.
Coming off Reach, I don’t take Halo for granted that 343 will knock it out of the park, sorry. Especially when we hear from the architect of Halo “you can’t know what fans want.”
> Do you think the Halo fan base is impossible to please, and “there’s no predicting what we want” from Halo 4? Is this an ominous sign of how 343 is approaching Halo 4 ideas?
I think he meant it was impossible to please everyone. If my memory serves he said this right after explaining how diverse the Halo fan base was. I think we can agree that it is impossible to please everyone. Anyone that tries usually ends up pleasing no one. I would be encouraged by this. Ominous sign?? I don’t think so.
> > Do you think the Halo fan base is impossible to please, and “there’s no predicting what we want” from Halo 4? Is this an ominous sign of how 343 is approaching Halo 4 ideas?
>
> I think he meant it was impossible to please everyone. If my memory serves he said this right after explaining how diverse the Halo fan base was. I think we can agree that it is impossible to please everyone. Anyone that tries usually ends up pleasing no one. I would be encouraged by this. Ominous sign?? I don’t think so.
You can’t please everyone is so obvious, it goes without saying, doesn’t it? O’Connor is too smart to say such a vapid thing without a point. It’s just more of the political BS that has made Reach such a bummer. “You can’t please everyone.” Wow.
To me, he meant, 343 can’t please either Halo community, so they won’t try.
To me, it says, they could goof around with the Reach gamer and the Halo 2/3 gamer and try to do another mishmash.
It’s not hard to choose a direction. What is hard–no, impossible–is to try to build a game around both groups. From O’Connor’s quote, I’m not confident that he is going to make the hard choices that will make Halo 4 a strong, unique game.
343i needs to understand that if fans made the game it would be complete poop. Make Halo 4 the way they want, not some fan complaining about how ruined the franchise will be unless they are listened to. That fan knows nothing about game design 90% of the time.
“I don’t know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody.” ~Bill Cosby
> 343i needs to understand that if fans made the game it would be complete poop. Make Halo 4 the way they want, not some fan complaining about how ruined the franchise will be unless they are listened to. That fan knows nothing about game design 90% of the time.
You couldn’t have said it any clearer.
> > > Do you think the Halo fan base is impossible to please, and “there’s no predicting what we want” from Halo 4? Is this an ominous sign of how 343 is approaching Halo 4 ideas?
> >
> > I think he meant it was impossible to please everyone. If my memory serves he said this right after explaining how diverse the Halo fan base was. I think we can agree that it is impossible to please everyone. Anyone that tries usually ends up pleasing no one. I would be encouraged by this. Ominous sign?? I don’t think so.
>
> You can’t please everyone is so obvious, it goes without saying, doesn’t it? O’Connor is too smart to say such a vapid thing without a point. It’s just more of the political BS that has made Reach such a bummer. “You can’t please everyone.” Wow.
>
> To me, he meant, 343 can’t please either Halo community, so they won’t try.
>
> To me, it says, they could goof around with the Reach gamer and the Halo 2/3 gamer and try to do another mishmash.
>
> It’s not hard to choose a direction. What is hard–no, impossible–is to try to build a game around both groups. From O’Connor’s quote, I’m not confident that he is going to make the hard choices that will make Halo 4 a strong, unique game.
I’m trying to understand where your coming from, but I’ve got nothing. Do you think Frank is a moron?
> 343i needs to understand that if fans made the game it would be complete poop. Make Halo 4 the way they want, not some fan complaining about how ruined the franchise will be unless they are listened to. That fan knows nothing about game design 90% of the time.
Yep yep yep.
> “I don’t know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody.” ~Bill Cosby
That’s basically what Frankie was saying. You can’t please everyone.
Gungrave makes a very good point.
As long as 343i is working with MLG I think Halo 4 will be pretty boss.
> > > Do you think the Halo fan base is impossible to please, and “there’s no predicting what we want” from Halo 4? Is this an ominous sign of how 343 is approaching Halo 4 ideas?
> >
> > I think he meant it was impossible to please everyone. If my memory serves he said this right after explaining how diverse the Halo fan base was. I think we can agree that it is impossible to please everyone. Anyone that tries usually ends up pleasing no one. I would be encouraged by this. Ominous sign?? I don’t think so.
>
> You can’t please everyone is so obvious, it goes without saying, doesn’t it? O’Connor is too smart to say such a vapid thing without a point. It’s just more of the political BS that has made Reach such a bummer. “You can’t please everyone.” Wow.
> <mark>That is what I got from what he said.</mark>
>
> To me, he meant, 343 can’t please either Halo community, so they won’t try.
> <mark>This assumes the Halo community is only split between two factions, I don’t believe he was referring to just the competitive/Casual player here.</mark>
>
> To me, it says, they could goof around with the Reach gamer and the Halo 2/3 gamer and try to do another mishmash.
> <mark>If that is what you got from it that is fine. I didn’t and don’t get that from what he said.</mark>
>
> It’s not hard to choose a direction. What is hard–no, impossible–is to try to build a game around both groups. From O’Connor’s quote, I’m not confident that he is going to make the hard choices that will make Halo 4 a strong, unique game.
> <mark>Again not what I got from it.</mark>
I am not arguing your point that the game should have a definite direction. I am just addressing what I got from the clip you cited.
> > > > Do you think the Halo fan base is impossible to please, and “there’s no predicting what we want” from Halo 4? Is this an ominous sign of how 343 is approaching Halo 4 ideas?
> > >
> > > I think he meant it was impossible to please everyone. If my memory serves he said this right after explaining how diverse the Halo fan base was. I think we can agree that it is impossible to please everyone. Anyone that tries usually ends up pleasing no one. I would be encouraged by this. Ominous sign?? I don’t think so.
> >
> > You can’t please everyone is so obvious, it goes without saying, doesn’t it? O’Connor is too smart to say such a vapid thing without a point. It’s just more of the political BS that has made Reach such a bummer. “You can’t please everyone.” Wow.
> >
> > To me, he meant, 343 can’t please either Halo community, so they won’t try.
> >
> > To me, it says, they could goof around with the Reach gamer and the Halo 2/3 gamer and try to do another mishmash.
> >
> > It’s not hard to choose a direction. What is hard–no, impossible–is to try to build a game around both groups. From O’Connor’s quote, I’m not confident that he is going to make the hard choices that will make Halo 4 a strong, unique game.
>
> I’m trying to understand where your coming from, but I’ve got nothing. Do you think Frank is a moron?
I don’t think O’Connor is a moron. But he sounds like a politician. “You can’t please everybody.”
I think O’Connor is currently trying to please everybody with Halo Reach TU and Halo Anniversary. Look at the zero bloom, semi-bloom AA Anniversary maps, no AA maps … it’s a hodgepodge of game types designed to cover every base.
You’re making what I’m saying complex, because maybe you are not reading what I’m saying–343 has to choose between the play styles in all these playlist choices for Halo 4. Saying, you can’t please everybody is not going to get it done.
Fans expect Halo 4 to be a singular experience, like it used to be before the three-headed monster of Reach came along. O’Connor’s quote said basically, “you can only do so much …” it was a cop out. Halo 1-3 were games we all wanted to play.
Now Reach has made Halo political. There are too many visions of Halo, and O’Connor sounds like he’s saying, that is unavoidable from here on out.
> > > > > Do you think the Halo fan base is impossible to please, and “there’s no predicting what we want” from Halo 4? Is this an ominous sign of how 343 is approaching Halo 4 ideas?
> > > >
> > > > I think he meant it was impossible to please everyone. If my memory serves he said this right after explaining how diverse the Halo fan base was. I think we can agree that it is impossible to please everyone. Anyone that tries usually ends up pleasing no one. I would be encouraged by this. Ominous sign?? I don’t think so.
> > >
> > > You can’t please everyone is so obvious, it goes without saying, doesn’t it? O’Connor is too smart to say such a vapid thing without a point. It’s just more of the political BS that has made Reach such a bummer. “You can’t please everyone.” Wow.
> > >
> > > To me, he meant, 343 can’t please either Halo community, so they won’t try.
> > >
> > > To me, it says, they could goof around with the Reach gamer and the Halo 2/3 gamer and try to do another mishmash.
> > >
> > > It’s not hard to choose a direction. What is hard–no, impossible–is to try to build a game around both groups. From O’Connor’s quote, I’m not confident that he is going to make the hard choices that will make Halo 4 a strong, unique game.
> >
> > I’m trying to understand where your coming from, but I’ve got nothing. Do you think Frank is a moron?
>
> I don’t think O’Connor is a moron. But he sounds like a politician. “You can’t please everybody.”
>
> I think O’Connor is currently trying to please everybody with Halo Reach TU and Halo Anniversary. Look at the zero bloom, semi-bloom AA Anniversary maps, no AA maps … it’s a hodgepodge of game types designed to cover every base.
>
> You’re making what I’m saying complex, because maybe you are not reading what I’m saying–343 has to choose between the play styles in all these playlist choices for Halo 4. Saying, you can’t please everybody is not going to get it done.
>
> Fans expect Halo 4 to be a singular experience, like it used to be before the three-headed monster of Reach came along. O’Connor’s quote said basically, “you can only do so much …” it was a cop out. Halo 1-3 were games we all wanted to play.
>
> Now Reach has made Halo political. There are too many visions of Halo, and O’Connor sounds like he’s saying, that is unavoidable from here on out.
I gotcha now. Don’t completely agree with you, but that’s perfectly sound.
> In an Anniversary video on YouTube, Frank O’Connor is interviewed saying, “The Halo fan base is really disparate. It’s a fool’s errand to predict what they want. You just try to put your heart and soul into the project and hope the come along for the ride.”
>
> - YouTube
>
> Now I like O’Connor, as you all do. But something he said bothered me, about the disparate/fragmented nature of the Halo fan base. This problem isn’t the fault of the fans. It’s the fault of Bungie and 343. And it’s a problem that needs solving.
>
> Instead of blaming finicky fans, maybe O’Connor should take the blame himself. “We changed the flavor and the DNA of Halo in Reach, and now we have fans who love that approach … but we have alienated even more fans. That’s on us.”
>
> It would be nice to hear him say that.
>
> For O’Connor to instead say, “ah, there’s just no way to please everyone–let’s just do what we (343) wants and hope they follow us,” seems like a big cheesy cop-out. The problem is, both fan bases aren’t going to follow 343 into Halo 4.
>
> I know personally, if in Halo 4 we get the mess of bloom/no bloom, AA/no AA playlists (not these exact playlists–but a smorgasbord of competing game style choices) that are currently fracturing multiplayer, I won’t buy the game. 343 gets a pass with Anniversary, because it’s a throwback. But Halo 4 needs to be one game, with one coherent philosophy. 343 must choose between the fan bases to make one good game. A choice must be made.
>
> Do you think the Halo fan base is impossible to please, and “there’s no predicting what we want” from Halo 4? Is this an ominous sign of how 343 is approaching Halo 4 ideas?
Bungie made Halo: Reach. 343i have actually shown that they ‘disagree’ with certain decisions within Reach that were made by Bungie… coughBloom… AL… etc etccough
> > > > > > Do you think the Halo fan base is impossible to please, and “there’s no predicting what we want” from Halo 4? Is this an ominous sign of how 343 is approaching Halo 4 ideas?
> > > > >
> > > > > I think he meant it was impossible to please everyone. If my memory serves he said this right after explaining how diverse the Halo fan base was. I think we can agree that it is impossible to please everyone. Anyone that tries usually ends up pleasing no one. I would be encouraged by this. Ominous sign?? I don’t think so.
> > > >
> > > > You can’t please everyone is so obvious, it goes without saying, doesn’t it? O’Connor is too smart to say such a vapid thing without a point. It’s just more of the political BS that has made Reach such a bummer. “You can’t please everyone.” Wow.
> > > >
> > > > To me, he meant, 343 can’t please either Halo community, so they won’t try.
> > > >
> > > > To me, it says, they could goof around with the Reach gamer and the Halo 2/3 gamer and try to do another mishmash.
> > > >
> > > > It’s not hard to choose a direction. What is hard–no, impossible–is to try to build a game around both groups. From O’Connor’s quote, I’m not confident that he is going to make the hard choices that will make Halo 4 a strong, unique game.
> > >
> > > I’m trying to understand where your coming from, but I’ve got nothing. Do you think Frank is a moron?
> >
> > I don’t think O’Connor is a moron. But he sounds like a politician. “You can’t please everybody.”
> >
> > I think O’Connor is currently trying to please everybody with Halo Reach TU and Halo Anniversary. Look at the zero bloom, semi-bloom AA Anniversary maps, no AA maps … it’s a hodgepodge of game types designed to cover every base.
> >
> > You’re making what I’m saying complex, because maybe you are not reading what I’m saying–343 has to choose between the play styles in all these playlist choices for Halo 4. Saying, you can’t please everybody is not going to get it done.
> >
> > Fans expect Halo 4 to be a singular experience, like it used to be before the three-headed monster of Reach came along. O’Connor’s quote said basically, “you can only do so much …” it was a cop out. Halo 1-3 were games we all wanted to play.
> >
> > Now Reach has made Halo political. There are too many visions of Halo, and O’Connor sounds like he’s saying, that is unavoidable from here on out.
>
> I gotcha now. Don’t completely agree with you, but that’s perfectly sound.
Cool. Thanks for not-negative feedback. I’m just chatting on this forum. I like 343 and want Halo 4 to be great.
Just curious … you don’t agree that Halo has to be a singular experience to succeed, or you don’t think 343 will put out a hodgepodge mess of playlists like Reach has turned into …?
I am in a creative field, so I totally know that you have to go with your gut and make what you want to make. Reach was a singular experience, after all … it just happened to be an experience that many of us didn’t like–so 343 is backing out of that concept to help us enjoy the game better. It just seems, at the end of the day, 343 has to grow a pair and cut Reach’s ideas for Halo 4, or tell the old-timers that “this is what Halo is now” and go with the new ideas.
“You can’t ride two horses with one behind.” – not Bill Cosby
> > > > > > > Do you think the Halo fan base is impossible to please, and “there’s no predicting what we want” from Halo 4? Is this an ominous sign of how 343 is approaching Halo 4 ideas?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think he meant it was impossible to please everyone. If my memory serves he said this right after explaining how diverse the Halo fan base was. I think we can agree that it is impossible to please everyone. Anyone that tries usually ends up pleasing no one. I would be encouraged by this. Ominous sign?? I don’t think so.
> > > > >
> > > > > You can’t please everyone is so obvious, it goes without saying, doesn’t it? O’Connor is too smart to say such a vapid thing without a point. It’s just more of the political BS that has made Reach such a bummer. “You can’t please everyone.” Wow.
> > > > >
> > > > > To me, he meant, 343 can’t please either Halo community, so they won’t try.
> > > > >
> > > > > To me, it says, they could goof around with the Reach gamer and the Halo 2/3 gamer and try to do another mishmash.
> > > > >
> > > > > It’s not hard to choose a direction. What is hard–no, impossible–is to try to build a game around both groups. From O’Connor’s quote, I’m not confident that he is going to make the hard choices that will make Halo 4 a strong, unique game.
> > > >
> > > > I’m trying to understand where your coming from, but I’ve got nothing. Do you think Frank is a moron?
> > >
> > > I don’t think O’Connor is a moron. But he sounds like a politician. “You can’t please everybody.”
> > >
> > > I think O’Connor is currently trying to please everybody with Halo Reach TU and Halo Anniversary. Look at the zero bloom, semi-bloom AA Anniversary maps, no AA maps … it’s a hodgepodge of game types designed to cover every base.
> > >
> > > You’re making what I’m saying complex, because maybe you are not reading what I’m saying–343 has to choose between the play styles in all these playlist choices for Halo 4. Saying, you can’t please everybody is not going to get it done.
> > >
> > > Fans expect Halo 4 to be a singular experience, like it used to be before the three-headed monster of Reach came along. O’Connor’s quote said basically, “you can only do so much …” it was a cop out. Halo 1-3 were games we all wanted to play.
> > >
> > > Now Reach has made Halo political. There are too many visions of Halo, and O’Connor sounds like he’s saying, that is unavoidable from here on out.
> >
> > I gotcha now. Don’t completely agree with you, but that’s perfectly sound.
>
> Cool. Thanks for not-negative feedback. I’m just chatting on this forum. I like 343 and want Halo 4 to be great.
>
> Just curious … you don’t agree that Halo has to be a singular experience to succeed, or you don’t think 343 will put out a hodgepodge mess of playlists like Reach has turned into …?
>
> I am in a creative field, so I totally know that you have to go with your gut and make what you want to make. Reach was a singular experience, after all … it just happened to be an experience that many of us didn’t like–so 343 is backing out of that concept to help us enjoy the game better. It just seems, at the end of the day, 343 has to grow a pair and cut Reach’s ideas for Halo 4, or tell the old-timers that “this is what Halo is now” and go with the new ideas.
>
> “You can’t ride two horses with one behind.” – not Bill Cosby
I just don’t think this decision is confined to one of 2 parties so to speak. I’m the kind of guy that just thinks that most conflicts have medium. It’s just who I am. I think that 343i is capable of coming up with something new that neither parties had in mind, yet both like. Or not, but hey thats just me.
> > > > > > > > Do you think the Halo fan base is impossible to please, and “there’s no predicting what we want” from Halo 4? Is this an ominous sign of how 343 is approaching Halo 4 ideas?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I think he meant it was impossible to please everyone. If my memory serves he said this right after explaining how diverse the Halo fan base was. I think we can agree that it is impossible to please everyone. Anyone that tries usually ends up pleasing no one. I would be encouraged by this. Ominous sign?? I don’t think so.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You can’t please everyone is so obvious, it goes without saying, doesn’t it? O’Connor is too smart to say such a vapid thing without a point. It’s just more of the political BS that has made Reach such a bummer. “You can’t please everyone.” Wow.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To me, he meant, 343 can’t please either Halo community, so they won’t try.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To me, it says, they could goof around with the Reach gamer and the Halo 2/3 gamer and try to do another mishmash.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It’s not hard to choose a direction. What is hard–no, impossible–is to try to build a game around both groups. From O’Connor’s quote, I’m not confident that he is going to make the hard choices that will make Halo 4 a strong, unique game.
> > > > >
> > > > > I’m trying to understand where your coming from, but I’ve got nothing. Do you think Frank is a moron?
> > > >
> > > > I don’t think O’Connor is a moron. But he sounds like a politician. “You can’t please everybody.”
> > > >
> > > > I think O’Connor is currently trying to please everybody with Halo Reach TU and Halo Anniversary. Look at the zero bloom, semi-bloom AA Anniversary maps, no AA maps … it’s a hodgepodge of game types designed to cover every base.
> > > >
> > > > You’re making what I’m saying complex, because maybe you are not reading what I’m saying–343 has to choose between the play styles in all these playlist choices for Halo 4. Saying, you can’t please everybody is not going to get it done.
> > > >
> > > > Fans expect Halo 4 to be a singular experience, like it used to be before the three-headed monster of Reach came along. O’Connor’s quote said basically, “you can only do so much …” it was a cop out. Halo 1-3 were games we all wanted to play.
> > > >
> > > > Now Reach has made Halo political. There are too many visions of Halo, and O’Connor sounds like he’s saying, that is unavoidable from here on out.
> > >
> > > I gotcha now. Don’t completely agree with you, but that’s perfectly sound.
> >
> > Cool. Thanks for not-negative feedback. I’m just chatting on this forum. I like 343 and want Halo 4 to be great.
> >
> > Just curious … you don’t agree that Halo has to be a singular experience to succeed, or you don’t think 343 will put out a hodgepodge mess of playlists like Reach has turned into …?
> >
> > I am in a creative field, so I totally know that you have to go with your gut and make what you want to make. Reach was a singular experience, after all … it just happened to be an experience that many of us didn’t like–so 343 is backing out of that concept to help us enjoy the game better. It just seems, at the end of the day, 343 has to grow a pair and cut Reach’s ideas for Halo 4, or tell the old-timers that “this is what Halo is now” and go with the new ideas.
> >
> > “You can’t ride two horses with one behind.” – not Bill Cosby
>
> I just don’t think this decision is confined to one of 2 parties so to speak. I’m the kind of guy that just thinks that most conflicts have medium. It’s just who I am. I think that 343i is capable of coming up with something new that neither parties had in mind, yet both like. Or not, but hey thats just me.
I am inclined to agree with you–but why didn’t O’Connor just say that instead? What you said is a heck of a lot more interesting than what he said about the future of Halo.
> I am inclined to agree with you–but why didn’t O’Connor just say that instead? What you said is a heck of a lot more interesting than what he said about the future of Halo.
Thanks alot, but saying it is one thing. What really matters is what they do. Lets just hope 343i has that in mind.