Fragile Gamers have changed Halo

Just want to know where the Halo Waypoint community stands.

I feel like gamers today have gotten so fragile that if they can’t dominate a game without putting in time and work that they quit playing. Halo especially has always been very unforgiving and has always had a huge skill game and now Halo 5 seems to be catering more than ever to players who don’t want to put in any time to learn how to play the game well.

I personally, play Halo to have competitive matches against teams the same skill level as me and my friends. I don’t get into the campaign much, could care less about forge, griffball, action sack, etc. but I just feel like the reason Halo has lost a lot of population so quickly the last few games is because gamers today don’t want to learn how to get better at any game not just Halo.

I just want to know what people on here think. No judgments from me if you like playing Halo for different reasons than me, no big deal.

What do you and your friends enjoy about Halo and why do you like to play that or do you do like all aspects of Halo?

I enjoy the options that Halo has always had. I love being able to jump into an arena playlist, play a few games, then switch it up and play some Big Team Battle/Team Snipers/Some crazy rotational playlist/etc. That’s extremely important for Halo games is to have your hardcore playlists, but also have your casual fun playlists. That’s a big reason why I love Halo so much. It has such an interesting sandbox and has had great community-made gametypes/maps, and such a variety of playing experiences through the different playlists. A lot of FPS games feel the same even with different playlists, but each playlist in Halo makes you play differently and I love that. I love the heated 50-49 arena game wins, and love the ability to go play some Zombies or Team Snipers (Grifball,BTB,etc) right after a game like that. That is why I play Halo (for the most part (also truly just love the gameplay mechanics more than any other FPS))

I would play to be competitive but I would never play ranked outside of Lone Wolves. What I liked about Halo was that there was a very real skill gap. You knew who the better player was and it pushes you to be better when it wasn’t you. I would play Halo the way I play any other game, in an attempt to master the game as the rewards for doing so are tangible.

That and it had the most diverse, unique, and fair gameplay out of any first person shooter in the market. Skill was important, but unlike more severe arena shooters like gears of war 2, skill was only one factor where decision making, teamwork, and downright luck were the rest. I don’t feel like there was a game that blended talented play, infantry, and vehicular combat better than Halo 3 did.

> 2533274807858554;2:
> I enjoy the options that Halo has always had. I love being able to jump into an arena playlist, play a few games, then switch it up and play some Big Team Battle/Team Snipers/Some crazy rotational playlist/etc. That’s extremely important for Halo games is to have your hardcore playlists, but also have your casual fun playlists. That’s a big reason why I love Halo so much. It has such an interesting sandbox and has had great community-made gametypes/maps, and such a variety of playing experiences through the different playlists. A lot of FPS games feel the same even with different playlists, but each playlist in Halo makes you play differently and I love that. I love the heated 50-49 arena game wins, and love the ability to go play some Zombies or Team Snipers (Grifball,BTB,etc) right after a game like that. That is why I play Halo (for the most part (also truly just love the gameplay mechanics more than any other FPS))

I agree, Halo has always had a good mix of everything.

> 2533274821180847;3:
> I would play to be competitive but I would never play ranked outside of Lone Wolves. What I liked about Halo was that there was a very real skill gap. You knew who the better player was and it pushes you to be better when it wasn’t you. I would play Halo the way I play any other game, in an attempt to master the game as the rewards for doing so are tangible.
>
> That and it had the most diverse, unique, and fair gameplay out of any first person shooter in the market. Skill was important, but unlike more severe arena shooters like gears of war 2, skill was only one factor where decision making, teamwork, and downright luck were the rest. I don’t feel like there was a game that blended talented play, infantry, and vehicular combat better than Halo 3 did.

Halo 3 was a perfect mix for all players and I think that’s why it held up for so long.

I’ve been playing since CE and every time a new game comes out someone makes this exact thread. So no, I don’t necessarily think the game gets easier and easier, I think it’s more an issue of some trait that makes us humans feel good talking about how hard life used to be and how easy all the whippersnappers have it. I call it the “Back in my day…” gene.

You did mention dwindling population, but I attribute that to big changes in the game itself. We saw a drop in pop when Reach introduced loadouts and AA’s, then we saw an even bigger drop when H4 introduced even more junk in addition to loadouts and AA’s. I see H5 as a return to form for the franchise, but updated with the FPS genre as a whole. Hopefully someday the MCC works flawlessly for those that disapprove of the direction Halo is heading.

> 2533274807858554;2:
> I enjoy the options that Halo has always had. I love being able to jump into an arena playlist, play a few games, then switch it up and play some Big Team Battle/Team Snipers/Some crazy rotational playlist/etc. That’s extremely important for Halo games is to have your hardcore playlists, but also have your casual fun playlists. That’s a big reason why I love Halo so much. It has such an interesting sandbox and has had great community-made gametypes/maps, and such a variety of playing experiences through the different playlists. A lot of FPS games feel the same even with different playlists, but each playlist in Halo makes you play differently and I love that. I love the heated 50-49 arena game wins, and love the ability to go play some Zombies or Team Snipers (Grifball,BTB,etc) right after a game like that. That is why I play Halo (for the most part (also truly just love the gameplay mechanics more than any other FPS))

This. This variety is why I loved Reach. It didn’t have a great competitive atmosphere, but it definitely had variety. Reach’s variety + OG Trilogy’s competitive = Best Halo.

I would agree to an extent. Gamers today now also have more options than they did with Halo 1, 2 and 3. For example, my friend always is eager to point out how much smaller a percentage that Halo 4 had in online vs. What Halo 3 had for online gameplay. That may be true, but look at how CoD has become popular since the Modern Warfares, and Battlefield since bad company II. There are more options for people to choose from, meaning a smaller audience for each game, it also means that many players are turning less into specialists, and more into jacks of all trades, meaning that when people go up against someone who outclasses them it’s sometimes the reasons that one is a pure Halo fan, versus someone who plays CoD most of the time.

Another reason why I suspect that Halo has seen a decrease in numbers is partly due to it being more competitive than games such as Halo 3, and before I hear the rants and raves of how I am wrong, let me convey WHY Halo has become more competitive:

Back in the times of Halo 1-3, we had less means to escape a piece of combat that was disadvantageous for us to retreat from. If you saw somebody in older Halo games, and if you pursued, or they did, there was a very small survival aspect for both parties. In Halo Reach, we saw this change with the implementation of Sprint, and even more so with Halo 4’s version of sprint (due to active camo, sprint, hologram and potentially infinite sprint). As I have looked at my K.D from the period between Halo 3 to Halo 4, I have seen a MASSIVE change in my K.D ratio. Halo 3, I had a slightly better than a 1.0 ratio, Halo Reach I had about a 1.7 K.D. And in Halo 4, I was able to see that number rocket up to a stagger 3.43 (acquired legitimately to just boast I got the K.D) before I stopped caring if I died. While friendly fire is a variable, and some can claim I became better as the games progressed (which I can argue one way and the other). To me, Halo games have seen an increase in players being able to escape their bad choices in placement, or mismatched weapons where other Halo games that came before provided less of that option.

Halo has also seen less focus on a strong team, as much as a strong player due to the increasing variables and skills that Spartans have had. With that said, once you reach a certain threshhold of skill, you will need a strong team if you ever want to go up again people around your own skill.

> 2743710844422774;1:
> Just want to know where the Halo Waypoint community stands.
>
> I feel like gamers today have gotten so fragile that if they can’t dominate a game without putting in time and work that they quit playing. Halo especially has always been very unforgiving and has always had a huge skill game and now Halo 5 seems to be catering more than ever to players who don’t want to put in any time to learn how to play the game well.
>
> I personally, play Halo to have competitive matches against teams the same skill level as me and my friends. I don’t get into the campaign much, could care less about forge, griffball, action sack, etc. but I just feel like the reason Halo has lost a lot of population so quickly the last few games is because gamers today don’t want to learn how to get better at any game not just Halo.
>
> I just want to know what people on here think. No judgments from me if you like playing Halo for different reasons than me, no big deal.
>
> What do you and your friends enjoy about Halo and why do you like to play that or do you do like all aspects of Halo?

That’s why other games are so popular. They are all easy and don’t take much skill to actually play. If you can move your character with competency, you have the ability to dominate one game and get destroyed the next. Sure there are elite gamers in those “easier” games, but as we’ve seen, Halo pros who turned to CoD after H4 was such a let down, Halo pros were able to just hop right in and dominate the competitive scene after a very short time. Halo takes more skill, but for that reason, it also has a hard time attracting new players. People want to just hop in and dominate because they can beat the game on the hardest difficulty. You can do that on CoD because it’s all based on reaction time. It’s shoot first and win, so if you can get your shots off first, you win 9/10 times.

The best way to attract new players is if 343 can actually introduce Skill Based Matchmaking. It was in H2/H3 and it worked wonders. You didn’t have people who could dominate anyone playing against completely new players who could barely walk forwards. You can tell that it’s not in MCC, in H4 it wasn’t very effective because I could dominate most games, but then I’d have games where I couldn’t even move from my spawn. Not very often did I have games where it was a 50-49 win/loss. Matching people based off skill is vital to Halo’s success. Making everything social is going to cause casual players matching up with competitive players, and when every game turns into a landslide win, both parties are going to get bored and not want to play. Not only that, competitive people are going to be on the same team as social players and there is going to be conflict, lack of team work, and all sorts of crossed wires that the game is going to turn into a betray fest because someone gets mad.

Sometimes I think that Halo is becoming obsolete because 343 doesn’t understand what Halo really is. It’s a very unique game. It is a game where anyone can do just about anything they want. It is highly competitive. It is completely casual. It’s a Lego set to build with. It’s a world to get lost in. 343 hasn’t been able to create all those things in one game yet. They’ve covered the casual play with H4, but it was not a competitive game. They gave us a forge, but it was dumbed down from Reach and contained the same pieces, so it was a bad Lego set. The campaign… holy hell it wasn’t good. It was “Go push this button. Now go push the next button. Kill that guy so you can press this other button.” The actual story was good, but the gameplay to tell the story was the same thing over and over and became boring. The only thing that made it interesting was when you turned up the difficulty, but it was still just a grind and not fun. They have a long way to go before they make a Halo that will actually be something that is great.

I play Halo because of the story mostly. I do enjoy multiplayer, but I would rather play the playlists and the campaigns more-so over having a hand in the competitive scene.

> 2533274825044752;6:
> I’ve been playing since CE and every time a new game comes out someone makes this exact thread. So no, I don’t necessarily think the game gets easier and easier, I think it’s more an issue of some trait that makes us humans feel good talking about how hard life used to be and how easy all the whippersnappers have it. I call it the “Back in my day…” gene.
>
> You did mention dwindling population, but I attribute that to big changes in the game itself. We saw a drop in pop when Reach introduced loadouts and AA’s, then we saw an even bigger drop when H4 introduced even more junk in addition to loadouts and AA’s. I see H5 as a return to form for the franchise, but updated with the FPS genre as a whole. Hopefully someday the MCC works flawlessly for those that disapprove of the direction Halo is heading.

Sentences like that piss me off to no end.

I’m in agreement with you OP, I too played Halo very competitively and that depth has started to dwindle with Reach.

The amazing thing about Halo was the whole package is a joy. Campaign for a great story, Mutiplayer for fun or glory, Customs for arrangement, Forge for creation. But the key thing is how well they blended well, without interrupting one another particularly on the online side of things.

With how things are going though, I may just be interested in Halo just for story.

> 2743710844422774;1:
> Halo especially has always been very unforgiving and has always had a huge skill game and now Halo 5 seems to be catering more than ever to players who don’t want to put in any time to learn how to play the game well.

I’m sorry, I 100% disagree.
At the very least, it’s catering less towards those people than Halo 4. If you can’t aim in Halo 5, you have no chance. If you don’t know the maps, you have no chance. I myself was destroyed when I first started the beta. I especially hated Empire, but then, I realized something. The map has a lot of levels and little cubbies. I learned where these were, and the first game when I started using them, I dominated over everyone. I was jumping, running, and weaving through multiple areas throughout the map while people were flabbergasted and didn’t know where I was, then I realized how great of a map Empire is. Here’s a few more examples.
In Truth, I knew about Pink 3, or the high top that is so well-known in Midship. When I found out how to get to it, every game, I tried going on top. And 95% of the time, I picked off more people than I ever did because I knew about the area. I used the lower sides of it to hide from people on the other side. I also knew about the DMR cubbies, and used those as well. Because I knew about these places, I was better at the game in those maps, even when I was a sucky player.
Another example is Regret. For kicks, I thought that I could clamber on top of the rungs in the middle top level. I then realized the depressions on them were able to be clambered on, and then I had irreplaceable lines of sights from both areas. Also, I found the small tunnels that I could use to sneak into the large roofed areas on the sides of the maps, and surprised multiple people then.
This is just the beginning. Orion has these, Pegasus especially has these, and Eden even has these (did you notice the ledge under the elevated platform bridge near the back that you can use to sneak attack the people sniping with the light rifle?). Because I took the time to learn about the map, like in the past Halo games, I was able to be better than others. Granted, clamber makes this easier, but there is more to find than in the past, where there were just a few skill jumps.
And the maps are just the beginning. Like I said before, while bullet magnetism is increased, the aim assist, in which people rely more on, is virtually nonexistent. The sprint nerf is something that no one even knows about most of the time, and thus they sprint around like demented monkeys not knowing their shields aren’t even doing anything and thus making them more vulnerable. They didn’t care to learn about the finer game mechanics that exist. The skill gap seems to be smaller in Halo 5, but it is actually fairly large. New people that didn’t care to learn about the game (i.e. most COD players) might seem like they’re dominating by being a chicken with its head cut off, but when they get destroyed from a person shooting accurately from Pink 3 or when they are ground pounded by a person on the top ledges in Empire, they will either keep playing the game to learn how to do these things, or stop playing because they are too lazy and immature to learn about the game.

I wouldn’t say "fragile ", just stressed.

You gotta remember most gamers are guys that come home after a long day of work aND just want to unwind, not have to really understand the game.

Now should this be the atmosphere for halo 5? No, and judging from the beta, it isnt.

in some ways yes. i’m 15 and the first halo i played a lot of was reach. over the last 5 years I’ve gotten more interested in getting better at the game. I have a true desire to be good at the game to to get better. in the multiplayer and the campaign. i’ll play a mission over and over to get a good time or to improve my K.D. and W.L… that being said i do know people who are “fragile”, this said person doesn’t practice in the octagon with me, quits out of games, gets mad at the game easily and doesn’t like the campaign on legendary or any sort of challenge. on average he does good, sometimes better and sometimes worse, whoever was in the right spot and the right time, but i don’t see a true desire to get better at the game. I’ve always appreciated Halo’s variety and I’ve enjoyed everything about halo.

> 2533274922548310;10:
> I play Halo because of the story mostly. I do enjoy multiplayer, but I would rather play the playlists and the campaigns more-so over having a hand in the competitive scene.

I agree, that’s how I usually am, but I do definitely get into multiplayer sometimes.

It’s true, but I don’t think it’s a bad thing. Halo isn’t just about competitive multiplayer. As you said in your OP, you don’t really care about any of the other facets of the game (campaign, forge, firefight, etc.), but that doesn’t mean that the rest of the community agrees, or that multiplayer should be the number one priority when making a Halo game.

Basically, 343 has three options:

  1. Pander to the competitive crowd and focus all of their efforts on building the perfect competitive multiplayer experience, ignoring or even eliminating the other parts of the game.

  2. Pander to casual players and completely abandon the competitive nature of Halo, but a deliver a great campaign and fun co-op mode (sound familiar? Halo 4 maybe?).

Or…

  1. Do their best to deliver a stunning campaign, great forge, fun casual multiplayer options, and a great competitive scene (seems like this option describes Halo 5 so far).

As someone who dabbles in competitive multiplayer but doesn’t live in it, option 1 would be about the only thing that would get me to stop playing Halo. Halo was built for story, and story should always come first. It’s fine (and ideal) to have some competitive multiplayer, but the game can’t be designed around it or it’s going to fail to bring new people in.

Option 2 was Halo 4, and that didn’t work because it failed to appeal to the competitive community, but it also failed to appeal to the casual community as well because it didn’t deliver a better experience than what people could get in other casual games.

As you said, some people don’t want to take the time to learn how to be good at a video game. Honestly, they shouldn’t have to either. They should be able to play parts of the multiplayer without having to “learn and get better” so they can avoid being stomped all the time. Hence the separation of ranked and social playlists. I’m a firm believer that if someone really wants to play Halo, they should be able to play it competently, without being trashed all the time, without practicing. In the end, those that do practice and take the time to be better, will be just that: better. Why does it matter if the game is fundamentally welcoming to newcomers, as long as there is still a decent skill gap where you can excel?

If anything, halo 5 is MORE competitive than any previous halo. Spartan abilities massively increase the skill gap because its going to take a lot of practice to optimize their use. The reason halo has always had such a high skill gap is because the best weapons are single shot and take at least 4 shots to kill, meaning you actually have to be good at aiming, and have the skill to out BR an opponent in order to win. In Cod or BF, if you come up behind a dude, youll get the kill every time, no matter how much better than you he is. In halo, you have no such luxury, if they guy is a better player than you, he will turn around and 4 shot you even if you land the first shot. This aspect of halo is by no means gone, and halos skill gap is by no means diminished.

I don’t necessarily agree. Bungie always made Halo to be a very casual game. Parts of the playerbase took it in a different direction but the game was very much a casual game if you approached it that way.

That was the beauty of HCE, H2 and H3. They somehow managed to be a casual game and a competitive game at the same time.

Reach, H4 and H5. Idk, they don’t seem to appeal to anyone.

> 2535465472930091;18:
> I don’t necessarily agree. Bungie always made Halo to be a very casual game. Parts of the playerbase took it in a different direction but the game was very much a casual game if you approached it that way.
>
> That was the beauty of HCE, H2 and H3. They somehow managed to be a casual game and a competitive game at the same time.
>
> Reach, H4 and H5. Idk, they don’t seem to appeal to anyone.

That is very true.

> 2533274825044752;6:
> I’ve been playing since CE and every time a new game comes out someone makes this exact thread. So no, I don’t necessarily think the game gets easier and easier, I think it’s more an issue of some trait that makes us humans feel good talking about how hard life used to be and how easy all the whippersnappers have it. I call it the “Back in my day…” gene.
>
> You did mention dwindling population, but I attribute that to big changes in the game itself. We saw a drop in pop when Reach introduced loadouts and AA’s, then we saw an even bigger drop when H4 introduced even more junk in addition to loadouts and AA’s. I see H5 as a return to form for the franchise, but updated with the FPS genre as a whole. Hopefully someday the MCC works flawlessly for those that disapprove of the direction Halo is heading.

I see what you’re saying, but you can’t tell me that Halo 5 hasn’t taken many things out that separated good players from great players from the past Halos. (from the beta, they have made changes but based on the beta) Kill times are much faster with automatic weapons, grenades are much stronger, skill jumps have been taken out with clamber, Spartan chatter tells you where players on the map are, friendly fire is off, weapon locations have indicators, power weapons also have timers so everyone knows when they are coming back, strafing speed has been drastically reduced, bullet magnetism and larger hit boxes make getting kills much easier. The reason COD is so popular is because anyone can pick it up and get a handful of kills and Halo isn’t COD but from a standpoint of difficulty Halo is much easier than ever before.

I did enjoy the beta though.