Forge maps are just plain pathetic!

http://au.gamespot.com/halo-4/videos/halo-4-forge-maps-overview-6397988/

3 horrable forge maps. Im sorry, but i have absolutely no idea how someone is going to make a big team battle map on one of these three tiny spaces.

On Ravine, yes, the ENTIRE area is big, but it has a crappy little rock thing with a tiny bit of grass, which they expect us to forge a nice big happy map on. If you watch that video, when they talk about how the barrier couldnt originally go up as high, but they moved it just so you can fly through this crap hole thing, Umm… even the hole wasnt high up, so how the hell are flying vehicles going to exist? Dont bother saying, “but oh on the horse map shown at RTX there was heaps of space above the water!” umm… i dont want to build a map above water, i want a nice big grass flat map, which i can happily drive my mantis and scorpion and hornet hopefully but 343 are too buisy with teamwork that they probably dont even have the hornet in halo 4 but who cares cause the falcon is the greatest! yeah, lets just fly around for half an hour hoping for someone to get in and turret for me. How pathetic. The hornet is soo much better!

Anyway, impact is my favourite map. Simpally because i plan to build a frigate in space, cause there is absolutely no room to build anything on the asteriod. Now what really pisses me off is that its such a tiny space, yet they ruin it EVEN MORE by shoving an un deletable structure RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ASTEROID! WTF were they thinking? He sais that you can happily build in and out of it… ummm??? NO! I just want a plain simple open flat map which i can happily forge what ever the F*** i wanted but no!

Ok erosion is basically more pathetic than my -Yoink-. the landscape is already done for you, there is no point in even editing in buildings because there is no room, and the map itself if your given random weapons, you could just go in and have a great time becase its so small and its not even ideal for a wraith to get past, or even flying vehicles to get around. What a waiste of time. Throughout all the effort they did in making such DETAILED maps with all the crap they had to have in it, Everyone would just be soooo much more happy with just a simple halo 3 sandbox styled map, with the simple 3 layers or something similar, just an open flat map is all we have asked for, but no… they want to make life difficult, and now, im going to have to use these huge walls on ravine to make a flat area to atleast to use vehicles! I shoudnt have to do that. Where is our canyon?

343 if your keeping a dlc fore map secret that is nice flat and open, its best to tell us about it now before i rage quit and throw the controller at the screen because there is no where to forge. Even in the rtx map, if you went close to the water, you died so bye bye boat maps.

Fu** the world, Ive finished bi*****g!

You don’t need Bandar Desert-size maps in order to have a good 8v8 time. They’re fine.

> You don’t need Bandar Desert-size maps in order to have a good 8v8 time. They’re fine.

the maps aren’t fine, they’re incredibly restricting on what you can actually build while utilizing them, 8v8 maps with halo 4s scaling is also going to be really hard to accomplish well and there isn’t enougn space for it, if you can manage it it is only going to be a very generic repeated design because it is all the maps lets you build.

they’re fare from fine, it isn’t about size but versitality and these maps aren’t versitile, forgeworld is a 100x more versitile then all these maps put together.

I know your frustrated, but these maps are much bigger then you think.
Also, we will make awesome 8v8 especially on IMPACT i’m going to connect the two astroids and make a huge map with vehicles!

Can you show me how many grids can fit inside one of these so-called small Forge Lands end to end?
So far all 3 maps seem to have a volume at least as large as Paradiso’s Island + Hemmorhage put together… That’s not exactly tiny.

> > You don’t need Bandar Desert-size maps in order to have a good 8v8 time. They’re fine.
>
> the maps aren’t fine, they’re incredibly restricting on what you can actually build while utilizing them, 8v8 maps with halo 4s scaling is also going to be really hard to accomplish well and there isn’t enougn space for it, if you can manage it it is only going to be a very generic repeated design because it is all the maps lets you build.
>
> they’re fare from fine, it isn’t about size but versitality and these maps aren’t versitile, forgeworld is a 100x more versitile then all these maps put together.

Forge World was versatile? That’s why every BTB map was either on Alaska or the Canyon?

If maps like Asphalt can work with 8v8, while being just a bit bigger than 2 grids, Erosion, Ravine, and Impact are fine.

You don’t need planet-sized environments for 8v8 play.

> Can you show me how many grids can fit inside one of these so-called small Forge Lands end to end?
> So far all 3 maps seem to have a volume at least as large as Paradiso’s Island + Hemmorhage put together… That’s not exactly tiny.

Wow… Just look at that absolutely tiny playspace. You could fit at least 2 of those in Wizard’s red base.

> forgeworld is a 100x more versitile then all these maps put together.

Forge World may be only mildly more versatile because FW is like having Raving, Impact and Erosion on one map.
None of these FL’s (Forge Lands) are meant to give us what FW did when compared individually, but combined, yes they do nearly total FW’s abilities from a superficial PoV. Haven’t had my hands on the FL’s so I can’t say for sure, but superficially I can fo’sure say: Damn there’s a lot offered.
And the biggest difference is that at least we have 3 pallets instead of just 1.

I can agree that they look kind of small for being forge world maps but they do look beautiful.

> > > You don’t need Bandar Desert-size maps in order to have a good 8v8 time. They’re fine.
> >
> > the maps aren’t fine, they’re incredibly restricting on what you can actually build while utilizing them, 8v8 maps with halo 4s scaling is also going to be really hard to accomplish well and there isn’t enougn space for it, if you can manage it it is only going to be a very generic repeated design because it is all the maps lets you build.
> >
> > they’re fare from fine, it isn’t about size but versitality and these maps aren’t versitile, forgeworld is a 100x more versitile then all these maps put together.
>
> Forge World was versatile? That’s why every BTB map was either on Alaska or the Canyon?
>
> If maps like Asphalt can work with 8v8, while being just a bit bigger than 2 grids, Erosion, Ravine, and Impact are fine.
>
> You don’t need planet-sized environments for 8v8 play.

halo 4s map scale larger then that of reach because the base movement speed is faster and the field of view is different so getting around the maps is actually much quicker and the lines of sight end up working out differently so no, asphault won’t work for 8v8 in halo 4, it struggles in reach as it is.

forgeworld was extremely versitile in what you can actually do with the terrain it offered, all though most people tend to see it as bad the way the terrain is actually done is done in a way so that forgers can build there maps around it smoothly while also intergerating there maps into the terrain and utilizing the terrain, when you know what you’re doing it actually works out very well.

all 3 of these forge maps for halo 4 don’t offer anything of value when it comes to actually using them, i mean the terrain that they have to offer, there is nothing of value had in the maps actuall gemotry because they’re designed to be an almost complete map so that forgers don’t have to fill in the gaps, the problem is that this means they’ve had to actually design and build the terrain around certain gameplay which makes it incredibly restrictive on what you can actually build and if you can actually build there, not to mention that intergrating objects into the terrain itself with how its done isn’t going to work because you’re going to get odds and ends every where.

the maps, when it comes to actually using them are worthless, halo reachs forgeworld actually had a lot more to offer and people put it to good use.

as for the canyon, well, forgeworld wasn’t that great for BTB, but not every BTB forger forged there, most of the actually good BTB forgers went and creating there own entire unique playspace out of nothing but forge peices because forgeworld didn’t offer anything of value for BTBs gameplay, it offered a lot for 4v4 but nothing but the canyon for BTB which was incredibly restrictive, in halo 4, the maps are even more restrictive for BTB then what forgeworld was, there is almost nothing of actual space and value that will work out well for BTB but instead there is just a bunch of obstructions every where and asymmetry every where making it impossible to build a symmetrical BTB map.

yes there is a tone of open space, so then why even give us 3 maps if we’re stuck to using the open space? we would have been better off with a complete blank canvas which is nothing but a skybox and building our own unique playspaces from there because its exactly the same thing, building a map scratch, this is what we’re msotly going to see as well.

the maps are just useless, if people aren’t going to be using them but instead build floating maps then there is absoloutly no point in having all these default structures and terrain, no point in having multiple maps to forge on because no matter what choice of map, how the maps are going to be built from the ground up, the objects used and theme is going to stay exactly the same.

> > forgeworld is a 100x more versitile then all these maps put together.
>
> Forge World may be only mildly more versatile because FW is like having Raving, Impact and Erosion on one map.
> None of these FL’s (Forge Lands) are meant to give us what FW did when compared individually, but combined, yes they do nearly total FW’s abilities from a superficial PoV. Haven’t had my hands on the FL’s so I can’t say for sure, but superficially I can fo’sure say: Damn there’s a lot offered.
> And the biggest difference is that at least we have 3 pallets instead of just 1.

there isn’t anything really for offer in use of the forge lands themselves, ignoring the forge lands then yes, you have quite a lot you can do but this also means that these 3 unique forge lands are completely useless to have around.

i want to work with terrain, i was going to expand my reputar out from floating 4v4s and invasion to asymmetrical terrain based maps and BTB but now, looking at these enviroments it looks like i’m going to have to go backwards right to where i started instead of actually expanding outwards.

> > > forgeworld is a 100x more versitile then all these maps put together.
> >
> > Forge World may be only mildly more versatile because FW is like having Raving, Impact and Erosion on one map.
> > None of these FL’s (Forge Lands) are meant to give us what FW did when compared individually, but combined, yes they do nearly total FW’s abilities from a superficial PoV. Haven’t had my hands on the FL’s so I can’t say for sure, but superficially I can fo’sure say: Damn there’s a lot offered.
> > And the biggest difference is that at least we have 3 pallets instead of just 1.
>
> there isn’t nothing really for offer in use of the forge lands themselves, ignoring the forge lands then yes, you have quite a lot you can do but this also means that these 3 unique forge lands are completely useless to have around.
>
> i want to work with terrain, i was going to expand my reputar out from floating 4v4s and invasion to asymmetrical terrain based maps and BTB but now, looking at these enviroments it looks like i’m going to have to go backwards right to where i started instead of actually expanding outwards.

I don’t see your issue. We haven’t seen all of the Forge pieces per map (natural terrain stuff) and the point of of having not-so busy landscape is to allow vehicles to use the map (Erosion is the busiest map with all those ramps and tunnels).

What you seem to be wanting are maps like Tempest, Breakneck or Ridgeline where there is lots of predefined structure that you can work with, not a Forge canvas where the canvas is purposely minimalist.

> > > > You don’t need Bandar Desert-size maps in order to have a good 8v8 time. They’re fine.
> > >
> > > the maps aren’t fine, they’re incredibly restricting on what you can actually build while utilizing them, 8v8 maps with halo 4s scaling is also going to be really hard to accomplish well and there isn’t enougn space for it, if you can manage it it is only going to be a very generic repeated design because it is all the maps lets you build.
> > >
> > > they’re fare from fine, it isn’t about size but versitality and these maps aren’t versitile, forgeworld is a 100x more versitile then all these maps put together.
> >
> > Forge World was versatile? That’s why every BTB map was either on Alaska or the Canyon?
> >
> > If maps like Asphalt can work with 8v8, while being just a bit bigger than 2 grids, Erosion, Ravine, and Impact are fine.
> >
> > You don’t need planet-sized environments for 8v8 play.
>
> halo 4s map scale larger then that of reach because the base movement speed is faster and the field of view is different so getting around the maps is actually much quicker and the lines of sight end up working out differently so no, asphault won’t work for 8v8 in halo 4, it struggles in reach as it is.

Base movement is slightly faster, and field of view does not affect how quickly a player can traverse the map.

> forgeworld was extremely versitile in what you can actually do with the terrain it offered, all though most people tend to see it as bad the way the terrain is actually done is done in a way so that forgers can build there maps around it smoothly while also intergerating there maps into the terrain and utilizing the terrain, when you know what you’re doing it actually works out very well.

And these new maps offer this, too. You cannot rely solely on premade terrain anymore, though.

> all 3 of these forge maps for halo 4 don’t offer anything of value when it comes to actually using them, i mean the terrain that they have to offer, there is nothing of value had in the maps actuall gemotry because they’re designed to be an almost complete map so that forgers don’t have to fill in the gaps, the problem is that this means they’ve had to actually design and build the terrain around certain gameplay which makes it incredibly restrictive on what you can actually build and if you can actually build there, not to mention that intergrating objects into the terrain itself with how its done isn’t going to work because you’re going to get odds and ends every where.

You cannot use that excuse. Reach had the majority of Forge World being a “fill in the blank” area. The Pillar, Canyon, and Quarry are examples of this. While Erosion may not be the best, Ravine and Impact offer enough plain terrain.

> the maps, when it comes to actually using them are worthless, halo reachs forgeworld actually had a lot more to offer and people put it to good use.

You keep saying that, but it doesn’t make it true. Reach was either Canyon, Colosseum, Quarry, or sky. Of all that space, so much went unused.

> as for the canyon, well, forgeworld wasn’t that great for BTB, but not every BTB forger forged there, most of the actually good BTB forgers went and creating there own entire unique playspace out of nothing but forge peices because forgeworld didn’t offer anything of value for BTBs gameplay, it offered a lot for 4v4 but nothing but the canyon for BTB which was incredibly restrictive, in halo 4, the maps are even more restrictive for BTB then what forgeworld was, there is almost nothing of actual space and value that will work out well for BTB but instead there is just a bunch of obstructions every where and asymmetry every where making it impossible to build a symmetrical BTB map.

So you complain about Reach having more usable geometry than Halo 4, but then go to state that good BTB forgers made their own playspaces from scratch. Tell me what makes this impossible in Halo 4?

> yes there is a tone of open space, so then why even give us 3 maps if we’re stuck to using the open space? we would have been better off with a complete blank canvas which is nothing but a skybox and building our own unique playspaces from there because its exactly the same thing, building a map scratch, this is what we’re msotly going to see as well.

Because different skyboxes, terrain, and a few exclusive items. Not every map is going to be purely forge pieces. Nor will every map be BTB. These environments were not built with BTB in mind and nothing more.

> the maps are just useless, if people aren’t going to be using them but instead build floating maps then there is absoloutly no point in having all these default structures and terrain, no point in having multiple maps to forge on because no matter what choice of map, how the maps are going to be built from the ground up, the objects used and theme is going to stay exactly the same.

Stop repeating yourself. Each time you do, it does not make you any more right.

I think the opposite, honestly. Forge World was extremely limited for BTB maps because you couldn’t build anything large scale without the game’s frame rate suffering heavily for it. At which point it’s not what I’d consider playable.

With 3 smaller environments which each have both their own unique geometry and enough empty space to build something purely out of forge pieces I expect there to be a lot more possibilities simply because there will be less technical limitations on the forger which will result in better quality maps overall.
Forge World was too big for its own good. Bungie should have stuck with their initial idea of creating multiple Forge environments rather than sticking them all in one map.

As it stands I’ve already got some nice ideas for some BTB maps on Erosion and Ravine. Not too sure about Impact yet, but I get the feeling I’ll actually need to be able to fly around that map in order to find something interesting to build off.

> I think the opposite, honestly. Forge World was extremely limited for BTB maps because you couldn’t build anything large scale without the game’s frame rate suffering heavily for it. At which point it’s not what I’d consider playable.
>
> With 3 smaller environments which each have both their own unique geometry and enough empty space to build something purely out of forge pieces I expect there to be a lot more possibilities simply because there will be less technical limitations on the forger which will result in better quality maps overall.
> Forge World was too big for its own good. Bungie should have stuck with their initial idea of creating multiple Forge environments rather than sticking them all in one map.
>
> As it stands I’ve already got some nice ideas for some BTB maps on Erosion and Ravine. Not too sure about Impact yet, but I get the feeling I’ll actually need to be able to fly around that map in order to find something interesting to build off.

Halo 4 also does not have that Impostering nonsense that Bungie tried to add to Reach. That really killed the framerate by having to swap out models constantly.

Right, and they had to use impostering because FW was so large. Impostering actually hurt some big maps pretty badly too, particularly on longer lines of sight where it could be possible for a player to be far enough away from a visible object that it got “impostered”.
Less should hopefully be more in Halo 4’s case.

Hey OP, I agree with you, but please, calm down, and DON’T BYPASS THE WORD FILTER. It is against the rules. :slight_smile:

> Base movement is slightly faster, and field of view does not affect how quickly a player can traverse the map.

yes it does, field of view and faster movement speed effect a lot in the maps, the faster movement speed maps it easier and quicker to get from cover to cover on smaller maps making it very hard to actully get some good fights going but instead have a lot of obstructions around, this requires a larger scale map in order for the gameplay to play fluently, the field of view as some slgiht impact on how the lines of sight work because it effects how much you can see on your screen, halo 4s field of fiew is higher up and i think wider which requires a different line of sight set up then we had in reach, 3, 2 and CE, the wider field of view also effects how you percive players to be moving around the maps because the more pixles a player has to move on your screen the slower and mroe sluggish they’re going to look.

these 2 things combined alters how you go about designing maps, the maps we’ve seen in halo 4 may look bad based on what we know from previous halos but because of these different traits they might actually work and from what i’ve head, they do work.

> And these new maps offer this, too. You cannot rely solely on premade terrain anymore, though.

thats the problem though, the terrain on errosion is actually designed so you don’t have to problem solve around them, instead its all done for you so you can slap a few blocks down, some spawn points and call it map, i don’t want this, not at all, i won’t work either because the terrain is designed to offer complete gameplay which means the gameplay is already pre-set, there is nothing there to be expanded upon and built upon, instead you’re relying soley on the terrain that they have provided you with.

what would have been nice is terrain that was designed to be incomplete, that offered the height varitions and hills for us to explore and build our maps around, this isn’t relying on terrain but actually relying on our ability to design maps because the terrain isn’t offering any actual gameplay but an enviorment for us to create our gameplay on, it just gives us something that we aren’t able to create through forge peieces because no forge peice is a hill, or a cave, it is blocks and rocks which is impossible to create actuall terrain with, it actually takes a lot more effort and knowledge to build upon the terrain as well.

> You cannot use that excuse. Reach had the majority of Forge World being a “fill in the blank” area. The Pillar, Canyon, and Quarry are examples of this. While Erosion may not be the best, Ravine and Impact offer enough plain terrain.

i can’t use the “excuse” that the terrain, the actual gemotry of these 3 forge enviorments offer little to nothing? why? they don’t offer anything, errosion is a pre-built complete playspace, impact has a giant UNSC structure obstructing the only real usable terrain area and raviene has a nice forunner dip in the center of the terrain where it would be the most usefull, to top all of this off we aren’t even given actuall terrain objects so we cannot expand and fill in those “intimidating” gaps making the actuall gemotry of the maps wortheless with nothing to offer.

of course forgeworld had a lot of open space, but it did contain usuable areas that worked well in the right hands, the emense amount of open space was just a bi-product of creating such a large map, allthough there is way to much water.

> You keep saying that, but it doesn’t make it true. Reach was either Canyon, Colosseum, Quarry, or sky. Of all that space, so much went unused.

care to provide a well explained logical reason based around gameplay mechanics and map design or are you just going to throw out pointless comments that don’t actually provide any strong counter point all the time?

> So you complain about Reach having more usable geometry than Halo 4, but then go to state that good BTB forgers made their own playspaces from scratch. Tell me what makes this impossible in Halo 4?

i said that the gemotry in reachs forge offered a tone for 4v4 gameplay but almost nothing for BTBs gameplay, i also went on to say that this problem is made worse in halo 4, it isn’t hypocritcal as you’re making it out to be, you’re just being nit-picky.

i’ll put this very basically since you’re obviously not taking the time to read what i’m saying but skimming through and picking out things that catch you’re attention. in reachs forgeworld, it offered a tone for 4v4s but offered little for BTB in comparision, in halo 4s forge it offers almost nothing for 4v4s and BTB.

the invasion forgers also demonstrate quite well how forgeworld offered a lot, if you look at why things were done in a certain why, how the lines of sight work, height elevation and such you should notice that forgeworld actually offered a good base for larger scaled maps to be effective, invasion maps also are larger then BTB maps because of how invasion works.

the good BTB forgers built there maps in the air because they where being too restricted by the gemotry of forgeworld, certain aspects were getting in the way of there designs and the vehicle gameplay was none existant so building a map in the air was actually much much easier and more effective to do, how ever if there was a tone of versitality with the gemotry of forgeworld itself then they would have actually used it a lot more.

> Because different skyboxes, terrain, and a few exclusive items. Not every map is going to be purely forge pieces. Nor will every map be BTB. These environments were not built with BTB in mind and nothing more.

oh, those sky boxes that map gemotry is mostly going to obstruct? worthless, the theme of the objects themselves don’t actually fit in with the skybox either, i don’t mean structual theme but textural theme, the new objects are looking to be nothing more then specialized peices to actually fit the map a little better and so that forge builds the maps for you, this is if the objects they showed in the first video on impact are anything to go by because they were nothing but pre-fabricated buildings.

the maps aren’t built with BTB in mind? well, i’m pretty sure that 343i gave the impression that we could build anything from 1v1 alll the way up to 8v8 if we so please, now we’re finding out that this isn’t exactly the case and there is a big BTB following which has now been screwed over with forge, these maps are meant to used to create brand spanking new maps so they should be built to allow this, how ever none of these enviroments have actually done this but instead try and do it for you or obstruct and restrict everything.

the skyboxs aren’t enough to warrent these 3 individual maps when forgers are only going to be using the same forge peices on each of them obstructing there view of the skybox and having the same theme everywhere you go.

> Stop repeating yourself. Each time you do, it does not make you any more right.

i also provide another point in that paragraph, i’m not merely repeating myself but providing multiple points, these 3 enviorments are completely useless and were a complete waste of time and resources when no one is actually going to be using the enviroments.

> What you seem to be wanting are maps like Tempest, Breakneck or Ridgeline where there is lots of predefined structure that you can work with, not a Forge canvas where the canvas is purposely minimalist.

that isn’t what i want but that is a perfect statement for what these enviorments actually are.

all i want, and what would work for what forge is, is enviroments that offer good landscape that can be used in a near endless of different ways, no pre-fab structures, no pre-defined gameplay but just the base for me to go on and define all of this my self, how ever none of these enviroments do that.

The cave and the asteroid, for some reason the names escape me, please someone tell me the names again, but i really like those two. Reguarding the first Forge world with the Forerunner Structure, that is somewhat too small. Personally, i though it would be as big as the forge world in Reach. Other than that, its the other two i like.