I don’t forge, but I understand this. And I think this needs to be said.
Think about how essential to Halo forge is.
Without Forge?
No Grifball.
No rocket race.
No Monster Trucks.
Castle Wars.
Anything to do with the games that isn’t matchmade Halo or campaign, that you have a memory of, is forge-related. It has been an essential component of this community and the development of the franchise, and acting like it’s some tacked-on feature for a few niche users is really frustrating.
Forge has affected all of us who play Halo immensely, and treating it like it isn’t a core feature is abhorrent. I don’t even forge, and I understand the role it has played in making Halo what it is.
Somebody (user by the name of Recourser) has proposed the idea of releasing multiplayer this Fall and everything else together when it’s ready. I like this idea. I could sign onto it. But treating this next Halo game as a full and complete (or even validly partial) release without forge frankly disgusts me.
Just sayin’.
Addendum: It is so much bigger than just a few goofy gametypes. Pretty much all machinema after Halo 2–forged. Mlg maps–forged. Pictures taken in theater mode, with light filters and forge effects–forged. Forge art–forged. The entire bulk of custom games that people have been playing since 2007–forged.
Let’s stop acting like this can be a Halo game that respects the Halo days of yore if it’s releasing without Forge–a core game mode in Halo that has inspired probably dozens of editors in similar games and a game mode that has in some way or other touched the experience of every Halo player ever who’s stepped foot outside the campaign.
343 would ruin a wet dream. What else has been sacrificed so the game gets a possible holiday 2021 release.
> 2533274818527108;2:
> 343 would ruin a wet dream. What else has been sacrificed so the game gets a possible holiday 2021 release.
Number of maps available at launch, probably.
> 2533274809073993;1:
>
You could make custom games prior to Forge. Does Forge make those games dramatically better? Yes. It’s half a year after launch so as long as it is it is a dramatic improvement the wait will be worth it. They probably are running into engine issues with co-op and Forge which could of been unforeseen until they could increase their QA recently.
> 2533274792737987;4:
> > 2533274809073993;1:
> >
>
> You could make custom games prior to Forge. Does Forge make those games dramatically better? Yes. It’s half a year after launch so as long as it is it is a dramatic improvement the wait will be worth it. They probably are running into engine issues with co-op and Forge which could of been unforeseen until they could increase their QA recently.
Delay. The. Game.
It’s not about “the wait.” It’s about the fact that forge is
a part of Halo’s identity, and if they’re serious about selling the game on hearkening back to the Halo days of yore, then it cannot validly release without forge.
> 2533274809073993;5:
> > 2533274792737987;4:
> > > 2533274809073993;1:
> > >
> >
> > You could make custom games prior to Forge. Does Forge make those games dramatically better? Yes. It’s half a year after launch so as long as it is it is a dramatic improvement the wait will be worth it. They probably are running into engine issues with co-op and Forge which could of been unforeseen until they could increase their QA recently.
>
> Delay. The. Game.
>
> It’s not about “the wait.” It’s about the fact that forge is
> a part of Halo’s identity, and if they’re serious about selling the game on hearkening back to the Halo days of yore, then it cannot validly release without forge.
Why delay a game 4-6 months when 95% of it is complete? It literally makes no sense. Forge doesn’t make or break Halo however it does magnifies the Halo experience. They decided to not delay the game. You can state those 3 words a million times and it wouldn’t make a difference. That Vidoc indicated that we will find out the release date relatively soon and the decisions that had to be made for launch have been made for the launch date.
Halo Infinite at it’s core is GAAS now and this blends into that.
> 2533274792737987;6:
> Why delay a game 4-6 months when 95% of it is complete? It literally makes no sense.
Because it’s not 100%.
Not only does it make sense, it’s laughalbly easy to comprehend: Full price for full product.
Unless they plan to sell the game in parts, that is. 50% price for half a game. Seems fair. They can get the rest of the money later once they deliver on the full product.
> 2533274801176260;7:
> > 2533274792737987;6:
> > Why delay a game 4-6 months when 95% of it is complete? It literally makes no sense.
>
> Because it’s not 100%.
> Not only does it make sense, it’s laughalbly easy to comprehend: Full price for full product.
> Unless they plan to sell the game in parts, that is. 50% price for half a game. Seems fair. They can get the rest of the money later once they deliver on the full product.
What if I told you the Campaign and Multiplayer have a GAAS model and won’t be 100% hypothetically until 10 years from launch?
> 2533274792737987;8:
> > 2533274801176260;7:
> > > 2533274792737987;6:
> > > Why delay a game 4-6 months when 95% of it is complete? It literally makes no sense.
> >
> > Because it’s not 100%.
> > Not only does it make sense, it’s laughalbly easy to comprehend: Full price for full product.
> > Unless they plan to sell the game in parts, that is. 50% price for half a game. Seems fair. They can get the rest of the money later once they deliver on the full product.
>
> What if I told you the Campaign and Multiplayer have a GAAS model and won’t be 100% hypothetically until 10 years from launch?
What if I told you that I don’t care and nobody asked 343 to make ther game into a GAAS?
What people asked them - literally - was to bring back coop splitscreen after H5G abandoned it, and 343 promised - again, literally - that the next game would have it at launch.
> 2533274792737987;6:
> > 2533274809073993;5:
> > > 2533274792737987;4:
> > > > 2533274809073993;1:
> > > >
> > >
> > > You could make custom games prior to Forge. Does Forge make those games dramatically better? Yes. It’s half a year after launch so as long as it is it is a dramatic improvement the wait will be worth it. They probably are running into engine issues with co-op and Forge which could of been unforeseen until they could increase their QA recently.
> >
> > Delay. The. Game.
> >
> > It’s not about “the wait.” It’s about the fact that forge is
> > a part of Halo’s identity, and if they’re serious about selling the game on hearkening back to the Halo days of yore, then it cannot validly release without forge.
>
> Why delay a game 4-6 months when 95% of it is complete? It literally makes no sense. Forge doesn’t make or break Halo however it does magnifies the Halo experience. They decided to not delay the game. You can state those 3 words a million times and it wouldn’t make a difference. That Vidoc indicated that we will find out the release date relatively soon and the decisions that had to be made for launch have been made for the launch date.
>
> Halo Infinite at it’s core is GAAS now and this blends into that.
And that is a crap decision that is a disservice to Halo’s identity. Not Halo as GAAS, but that launching without core parts of itself is somehow valid because of that.
If you care about Halo, this should matter to you.
> 2533274809073993;10:
> > 2533274792737987;6:
> > > 2533274809073993;5:
> > > > 2533274792737987;4:
> > > > > 2533274809073993;1:
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > You could make custom games prior to Forge. Does Forge make those games dramatically better? Yes. It’s half a year after launch so as long as it is it is a dramatic improvement the wait will be worth it. They probably are running into engine issues with co-op and Forge which could of been unforeseen until they could increase their QA recently.
> > >
> > > Delay. The. Game.
> > >
> > > It’s not about “the wait.” It’s about the fact that forge is
> > > a part of Halo’s identity, and if they’re serious about selling the game on hearkening back to the Halo days of yore, then it cannot validly release without forge.
> >
> > Why delay a game 4-6 months when 95% of it is complete? It literally makes no sense. Forge doesn’t make or break Halo however it does magnifies the Halo experience. They decided to not delay the game. You can state those 3 words a million times and it wouldn’t make a difference. That Vidoc indicated that we will find out the release date relatively soon and the decisions that had to be made for launch have been made for the launch date.
> >
> > Halo Infinite at it’s core is GAAS now and this blends into that.
>
> And that is a crap decision that is a disservice to Halo’s identity. Not Halo as GAAS, but that launching without core parts of itself is somehow valid because of that.
>
> If you care about Halo, this should matter to you.
It does matter to me since I have been a hardcore fan since 2004 however my view on this issue is different than yours and that’s okay.
> 2533274801176260;9:
> > 2533274792737987;8:
> > > 2533274801176260;7:
> > > > 2533274792737987;6:
> > > > Why delay a game 4-6 months when 95% of it is complete? It literally makes no sense.
> > >
> > > Because it’s not 100%.
> > > Not only does it make sense, it’s laughalbly easy to comprehend: Full price for full product.
> > > Unless they plan to sell the game in parts, that is. 50% price for half a game. Seems fair. They can get the rest of the money later once they deliver on the full product.
> >
> > What if I told you the Campaign and Multiplayer have a GAAS model and won’t be 100% hypothetically until 10 years from launch?
>
> What if I told you that I don’t care and nobody asked 343 to make ther game into a GAAS?
> What people asked them - literally - was to bring back coop splitscreen after H5G abandoned it, and 343 promised - again, literally - that the next game would have it at launch.
Do you know why it was delayed? Please tell me this information. I would be willing to bet technical issues came up during QA recently.
> 2533274792737987;6:
> > 2533274809073993;5:
> > > 2533274792737987;4:
> > > > 2533274809073993;1:
> > > >
> > >
> > > You could make custom games prior to Forge. Does Forge make those games dramatically better? Yes. It’s half a year after launch so as long as it is it is a dramatic improvement the wait will be worth it. They probably are running into engine issues with co-op and Forge which could of been unforeseen until they could increase their QA recently.
> >
> > Delay. The. Game.
> >
> > It’s not about “the wait.” It’s about the fact that forge is
> > a part of Halo’s identity, and if they’re serious about selling the game on hearkening back to the Halo days of yore, then it cannot validly release without forge.
>
> Why delay a game 4-6 months when 95% of it is complete? It literally makes no sense. Forge doesn’t make or break Halo however it does magnifies the Halo experience. They decided to not delay the game. You can state those 3 words a million times and it wouldn’t make a difference. That Vidoc indicated that we will find out the release date relatively soon and the decisions that had to be made for launch have been made for the launch date.
>
> Halo Infinite at it’s core is GAAS now and this blends into that.
Because that 5% is about 30% if not more of the player base. Halo 5 and 4 didn’t launch with forge. During that time Halo 3 and reach had higher population counts.
Forge and Co Op Campaign is the 3 pillars of Halo. Multiplayer is the 3rd pillar.
That’s why.
> 2533274809073993;1:
> I don’t forge, but I understand this. And I think this needs to be said.
>
> Think about how essential to Halo forge is.
>
> Without Forge?
>
> No Grifball.
>
> No rocket race.
>
> No Monster Trucks.
>
> Castle Wars.
>
> Anything to do with the games that isn’t matchmade Halo or campaign, that you have a memory of, is forge-related. It has been an essential component of this community and the development of the franchise, and acting like it’s some tacked-on feature for a few niche users is really frustrating.
>
> Forge has affected all of us who play Halo immensely, and treating it like it isn’t a core feature is abhorrent. I don’t even forge, and I understand the role it has played in making Halo what it is.
>
> Somebody (user by the name of Recourser) has proposed the idea of releasing multiplayer this Fall and everything else together when it’s ready. I like this idea. I could sign onto it. But treating this next Halo game as a full and complete (or even validly partial) release without forge frankly disgusts me.
>
> Just sayin’.
>
> Addendum: It is so much bigger than just a few goofy gametypes. Pretty much all machinema after Halo 2–forged. Mlg maps–forged. Pictures taken in theater mode, with light filters and forge effects–forged. Forge art–forged. The entire bulk of custom games that people have been playing since 2007–forged.
>
> Let’s stop acting like this can be a Halo game that respects the Halo days of yore if it’s releasing without Forge–a core game mode in Halo that has inspired probably dozens of editors in similar games and a game mode that has in some way or other touched the experience of every Halo player ever who’s stepped foot outside the campaign.
Dang, that was beautiful. I fully agree with this!! You sir are a Halo Fan
> 2533274792737987;12:
> > 2533274801176260;9:
> > > 2533274792737987;8:
> > > > 2533274801176260;7:
> > > > > 2533274792737987;6:
> > > > > Why delay a game 4-6 months when 95% of it is complete? It literally makes no sense.
> > > >
> > > > Because it’s not 100%.
> > > > Not only does it make sense, it’s laughalbly easy to comprehend: Full price for full product.
> > > > Unless they plan to sell the game in parts, that is. 50% price for half a game. Seems fair. They can get the rest of the money later once they deliver on the full product.
> > >
> > > What if I told you the Campaign and Multiplayer have a GAAS model and won’t be 100% hypothetically until 10 years from launch?
> >
> > What if I told you that I don’t care and nobody asked 343 to make ther game into a GAAS?
> > What people asked them - literally - was to bring back coop splitscreen after H5G abandoned it, and 343 promised - again, literally - that the next game would have it at launch.
>
> Do you know why it was delayed? Please tell me this information. I would be willing to bet technical issues came up during QA recently.
Apparently the game is not able to synchronise progress across multiple accounts or something.
Which I have already adressed several times in other threads.
> 2533274792737987;11:
> > 2533274809073993;10:
> > > 2533274792737987;6:
> > > > 2533274809073993;5:
> > > > > 2533274792737987;4:
> > > > > > 2533274809073993;1:
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You could make custom games prior to Forge. Does Forge make those games dramatically better? Yes. It’s half a year after launch so as long as it is it is a dramatic improvement the wait will be worth it. They probably are running into engine issues with co-op and Forge which could of been unforeseen until they could increase their QA recently.
> > > >
> > > > Delay. The. Game.
> > > >
> > > > It’s not about “the wait.” It’s about the fact that forge is
> > > > a part of Halo’s identity, and if they’re serious about selling the game on hearkening back to the Halo days of yore, then it cannot validly release without forge.
> > >
> > > Why delay a game 4-6 months when 95% of it is complete? It literally makes no sense. Forge doesn’t make or break Halo however it does magnifies the Halo experience. They decided to not delay the game. You can state those 3 words a million times and it wouldn’t make a difference. That Vidoc indicated that we will find out the release date relatively soon and the decisions that had to be made for launch have been made for the launch date.
> > >
> > > Halo Infinite at it’s core is GAAS now and this blends into that.
> >
> > And that is a crap decision that is a disservice to Halo’s identity. Not Halo as GAAS, but that launching without core parts of itself is somehow valid because of that.
> >
> > If you care about Halo, this should matter to you.
>
> It does matter to me since I have been a hardcore fan since 2004 however my view on this issue is different than yours and that’s okay.
Where do you differ?
That forge is important and necessary to a good-faith launch of a new Halo game?
That a good-faith launch of a new Halo game is important? Where’s the difference here, bud?
> 2533274801675813;13:
> > 2533274792737987;6:
> > > 2533274809073993;5:
> > > > 2533274792737987;4:
> > > > > 2533274809073993;1:
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > You could make custom games prior to Forge. Does Forge make those games dramatically better? Yes. It’s half a year after launch so as long as it is it is a dramatic improvement the wait will be worth it. They probably are running into engine issues with co-op and Forge which could of been unforeseen until they could increase their QA recently.
> > >
> > > Delay. The. Game.
> > >
> > > It’s not about “the wait.” It’s about the fact that forge is
> > > a part of Halo’s identity, and if they’re serious about selling the game on hearkening back to the Halo days of yore, then it cannot validly release without forge.
> >
> > Why delay a game 4-6 months when 95% of it is complete? It literally makes no sense. Forge doesn’t make or break Halo however it does magnifies the Halo experience. They decided to not delay the game. You can state those 3 words a million times and it wouldn’t make a difference. That Vidoc indicated that we will find out the release date relatively soon and the decisions that had to be made for launch have been made for the launch date.
> >
> > Halo Infinite at it’s core is GAAS now and this blends into that.
>
> Because that 5% is about 30% if not more of the player base. Halo 5 and 4 didn’t launch with forge. During that time Halo 3 and reach had higher population counts.
>
> Forge and Co Op Campaign is the 3 pillars of Halo. Multiplayer is the 3rd pillar.
> That’s why.
Halo Reach was the first Halo game that died relatively fast after launch even with Forge. Halo Reach - Halo 5 multiplayer experiences never felt like the Halo and had many more issues for their downfall.
> 2533274809073993;16:
> > 2533274792737987;11:
> > > 2533274809073993;10:
> > > > 2533274792737987;6:
> > > > > 2533274809073993;5:
> > > > > > 2533274792737987;4:
> > > > > > > 2533274809073993;1:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You could make custom games prior to Forge. Does Forge make those games dramatically better? Yes. It’s half a year after launch so as long as it is it is a dramatic improvement the wait will be worth it. They probably are running into engine issues with co-op and Forge which could of been unforeseen until they could increase their QA recently.
> > > > >
> > > > > Delay. The. Game.
> > > > >
> > > > > It’s not about “the wait.” It’s about the fact that forge is
> > > > > a part of Halo’s identity, and if they’re serious about selling the game on hearkening back to the Halo days of yore, then it cannot validly release without forge.
> > > >
> > > > Why delay a game 4-6 months when 95% of it is complete? It literally makes no sense. Forge doesn’t make or break Halo however it does magnifies the Halo experience. They decided to not delay the game. You can state those 3 words a million times and it wouldn’t make a difference. That Vidoc indicated that we will find out the release date relatively soon and the decisions that had to be made for launch have been made for the launch date.
> > > >
> > > > Halo Infinite at it’s core is GAAS now and this blends into that.
> > >
> > > And that is a crap decision that is a disservice to Halo’s identity. Not Halo as GAAS, but that launching without core parts of itself is somehow valid because of that.
> > >
> > > If you care about Halo, this should matter to you.
> >
> > It does matter to me since I have been a hardcore fan since 2004 however my view on this issue is different than yours and that’s okay.
>
> Where do you differ?
>
> That forge is important and necessary to a good-faith launch of a new Halo game?
>
> That a good-faith launch of a new Halo game is important? Where’s the difference here, bud?
Because I can wait. Co-op at launch has never been a big thing I jumped into until months after when I let the story settle. Forge is incredibly important to the community however launching in 6 months is not a deal break for me. It could actually give the game a second life that wouldn’t have been there if it truly is as dynamic as we believe it will be.
> 2533274801176260;15:
> > 2533274792737987;12:
> > > 2533274801176260;9:
> > > > 2533274792737987;8:
> > > > > 2533274801176260;7:
> > > > > > 2533274792737987;6:
> > > > > > Why delay a game 4-6 months when 95% of it is complete? It literally makes no sense.
> > > > >
> > > > > Because it’s not 100%.
> > > > > Not only does it make sense, it’s laughalbly easy to comprehend: Full price for full product.
> > > > > Unless they plan to sell the game in parts, that is. 50% price for half a game. Seems fair. They can get the rest of the money later once they deliver on the full product.
> > > >
> > > > What if I told you the Campaign and Multiplayer have a GAAS model and won’t be 100% hypothetically until 10 years from launch?
> > >
> > > What if I told you that I don’t care and nobody asked 343 to make ther game into a GAAS?
> > > What people asked them - literally - was to bring back coop splitscreen after H5G abandoned it, and 343 promised - again, literally - that the next game would have it at launch.
> >
> > Do you know why it was delayed? Please tell me this information. I would be willing to bet technical issues came up during QA recently.
>
> Apparently the game is not able to synchronise progress across multiple accounts or something.
> Which I have already adressed several times in other threads.
That doesn’t mean that is the specific reason for the delay.
> 2533274792737987;19:
> > 2533274801176260;15:
> > > 2533274792737987;12:
> > > > 2533274801176260;9:
> > > > > 2533274792737987;8:
> > > > > > 2533274801176260;7:
> > > > > > > 2533274792737987;6:
> > > > > > > Why delay a game 4-6 months when 95% of it is complete? It literally makes no sense.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Because it’s not 100%.
> > > > > > Not only does it make sense, it’s laughalbly easy to comprehend: Full price for full product.
> > > > > > Unless they plan to sell the game in parts, that is. 50% price for half a game. Seems fair. They can get the rest of the money later once they deliver on the full product.
> > > > >
> > > > > What if I told you the Campaign and Multiplayer have a GAAS model and won’t be 100% hypothetically until 10 years from launch?
> > > >
> > > > What if I told you that I don’t care and nobody asked 343 to make ther game into a GAAS?
> > > > What people asked them - literally - was to bring back coop splitscreen after H5G abandoned it, and 343 promised - again, literally - that the next game would have it at launch.
> > >
> > > Do you know why it was delayed? Please tell me this information. I would be willing to bet technical issues came up during QA recently.
> >
> > Apparently the game is not able to synchronise progress across multiple accounts or something.
> > Which I have already adressed several times in other threads.
>
> That doesn’t mean that is the specific reason for the delay.
No, and in I’ve literally said so myself. Even if it were, there’s no way of telling which other problems they might run into, all of which can potentially affect the solo campaign as well.
I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again: Coop campaign and solo campaign are the same game. If one isn’t finished, neither is the other.
They can’t know what changes they need to make to the singleplayer in order to get the coop running (changes in level design, mission structure, checkpoints, etc.)
Delaying the game is the only sensible choice of action.