Forge in Halo 4 should be a Level Editor with its own DVD

Its about time.

Halo 4 deserves a real map editor. And if that requires more space, enough that a separate disk would be required, I can’t see any reason against it. If that means more space for tools, more space for maps and more space for content, so be it.

Terrain Editing, Skybox Editing, Firefight editing, Senario Creators etc, THESE are the things that will make Halo 4 replayable for years!

Would I love to see one separate from forge? Yes. Do I want one if it affects game development without a delay to allow for everything to be polished? No. It’s not necessary. A good addition yes, but not necessary.

This would accomplish nothing if 343 continues to use the standard map variant file format. This is because the game engine must be able to load whatever you do in Forge. Creating a map modifier (Forge) means that the main game engine must be able to apply those modifications.

Think of it this way: Forge is just a bunch of menus. The actual editing – the spawning and despawning of pieces – is done by the same core game engine that runs Multiplayer. If it’s not in that game engine, you’re not editing it with a map modifier. Moving the map modifier to a different disc won’t accomplish anything; you’d need the same data (the game engine) to be on both that disc and the standard one, so it’d just be a waste of a disc.

A map creator, a la Halo Custom Edition, can be independent. The problem comes from the fact that it would be near-impossible to make a fully-fledged map creator user-friendly – which is the only advantage Forge has ever had over the competition. If it’s not user-friendly, then it will be useless to 80-90% of the population; most of the community will be left unable to express their creativity and prolong the lifespan of the game, and I don’t think that’s something anyone wants to happen.

So kind of like what Halo 2 for PC did. While it was all on one disk, it came with a program to edit maps.

> So kind of like what Halo 2 for PC did. While it was all on one disk, it came with a program to edit maps.

yeah, its just too bad halo 2 vista wasnt nearly as success as halo pc. Just magine all of the epicness that coud have happened :frowning:

It should be. But if its a seperate add-on for free or cheap in marketplace i would pay 400-800 microsoft points for a seperate level/mission editor plus extra microsoft points for good third party created character content. Now have a seperate disc with level/mission editor content like extra characters and such would be great but fit the map/level/mission editor onto one disc unless its too big.

a massive expansion for forge is needed, badly. bungie just made pieces that fit their needs to remake maps for matchmaking.

Maybe Halo 4 should have a disc that contains a full fledged map creator for the PC.

> Maybe Halo 4 should have a disc that contains a full fledged map creator for the PC.

12.1MB.

That’s how large the file for Hang 'Em High, from Halo PC, is. The average file of any type in Halo 3 or Halo: Reach never exceeds a meg. Bungie is able to distribute all of our content because it’s small. Fully-fledged maps built the same way that official ones are, though… Those are very big. And I’m willing to bet that the filesize has grown considerably in the last decade.

Can 343 distribute a multitude of very, very large files? I doubt that giving us that kind of map editor is possible at all, but if it is, would this be feasible from a distribution standpoint?

(That’s not rhetorical. I doubt we’ll get an answer, but it’d be really cool if we could get an official response to this query.)

It’s not possible to have a “real” level editor with a console game. Several improvements with Forge 2.0 is the closest we can get. I also believe a completely blank canvas will allow players to do so much more.

> It’s not possible to have a “real” level editor with a console game. Several improvements with Forge 2.0 is the closest we can get. I also believe a completely blank canvas will allow players to do so much more.

Has no one in this thread ever played Far Cry 2?

It doesn’t need to be on a separate disc, nobody would like that. Far Cry 2 had a map maker and it didn’t need to be on a different disk. I do agree that there should be a terrain editor style map maker, but it should be different from forge. There would be a map maker (which I’ll refer from now on as simply mm), and there should be the current forge side by side. The mm would do all of the things you mentioned above. Forge on the other hand should continue to be what it was intended to be, a level editor. Forge should be what you use to place objects, spawns, objectives, an so on into the map like it always has. This is important especially for the original maps created by bungie.

HOWEVER, I don’t necessarily see them doing this, because that would mean that DLC would essentially be useless and they’d get no extra profit from them. Although, they could do what Halo 3’s DLC did and actually add something new to the game, unlike Halo Reach’s DLC (the first set revolutionized forge, the second added filters, sandbox re-revolutionized forge, and so on, while Reach’s DLC served absolutely no purpose at all, especially when you can’t even play them). grumble grumble grumble…

I’ve always believed that giving the players more and more customization options was important, and while Halo comes close, it doesn’t quite reach it’s potential in reach (see what I did there? that wasn’t even intentional). Reach had so much potential, but It’s lack of support from Bungie and it’s completely useless DLC has essentially been a big F you to the game because they were more worried about their new game than the one they said they were going to support as much as Halo 3, which was a lie. Now it remains to be seen whether 343i will fix what Bungie left broken. The last hope for Reach is through the TU and this (what I assume is the) last map pack.

Wow, uh, sorry about that, I seem to have gotten into an off topic rant there, my bad ^_^;;

Maybe they could have a slightly more advanced map editor, in addition to forge, where the graphics performance is limited to resolve framerate issues. That way people could still forge, but they could also create advanced maps with the same buttery smooth framerate.

> It doesn’t need to be on a separate disc, nobody would like that. Far Cry 2 had a map maker and it didn’t need to be on a different disk. I do agree that there should be a terrain editor style map maker, but it should be different from forge. There would be a map maker (which I’ll refer from now on as simply mm), and there should be the current forge side by side. The mm would do all of the things you mentioned above. Forge on the other hand should continue to be what it was intended to be, a level editor. Forge should be what you use to place objects, spawns, objectives, an so on into the map like it always has. This is important especially for the original maps created by bungie.
>
> HOWEVER, I don’t necessarily see them doing this, because that would mean that DLC would essentially be useless and they’d get no extra profit from them. Although, they could do what Halo 3’s DLC did and actually add something new to the game, unlike Halo Reach’s DLC (the first set revolutionized forge, the second added filters, sandbox re-revolutionized forge, and so on, while Reach’s DLC served absolutely no purpose at all, especially when you can’t even play them). grumble grumble grumble…
>
> I’ve always believed that giving the players more and more customization options was important, and while Halo comes close, it doesn’t quite reach it’s potential in reach (see what I did there? that wasn’t even intentional). Reach had so much potential, but It’s lack of support from Bungie and it’s completely useless DLC has essentially been a big F you to the game because they were more worried about their new game than the one they said they were going to support as much as Halo 3, which was a lie. Now it remains to be seen whether 343i will fix what Bungie left broken. The last hope for Reach is through the TU and this (what I assume is the) last map pack.
>
> Wow, uh, sorry about that, I seem to have gotten into an off topic rant there, my bad ^_^;;

Sorry, didn’t see your post before writing mine, I agree with your ideas.

We will not get Firefight Forge. It will not happen. It is not worth their time. It’s the gaming equivalent to building an Edsel. Or creating a 5000 ton building and expecting a few thin wooden spikes to hold it 50 feet in the air.

If Halo 4 has a forge system, it will not need to be on its own DVD. That would be a waste of money, development time and presents far more problems than it would solve. Instead, we should be hopeful that Halo 4 runs on a more efficient graphics engine which is designed to handle the Forge system. That way we can look forward to a higher budget, more consistent frame rate, larger maps, more objects and overall a much better Forging experience.

Yes, yes, YES!! Please do this, 343i. Ignore all the naysayers and just do it.