Forerunner weapons overhaul for Halo Infinite

Alright so I’ve been drafting this thread for a while now and I’m finally ready to share. I didn’t want to add this to a pre existing thread because I feel there is just so much to discuss on this specific subject that it needs it’s own dedicated thread.

I think anyone who sees me on these forums a lot know that I strongly prefer Halo 4’s Forerunner weapons to Halo 5’s. This is for 4 main reasons:

  • I’m strongly opposed to completely redesigning weapons from their original design. Either make a new weapon or forget it. - I dislike the tracking bolts in Halo 5, as it’s really cheap and rewards bad aim. - They sound SO much better and less toyish in Halo 4. - Halo 4 was my first Halo game, so that is where all my nostalgia is at.Now I know, nostalgia is a pretty terrible argument to make. I just wanted to give you guys an idea of where I’m coming from. I can’t claim to be objective in this matter because of my own bias from nostalgia.

Here, I propose 343 overhauls the Forerunner weapons in Infinite to be more of less how they were in Halo 4. However, this includes quite a few new changes and features that hopefully people will like, make them feel unique, and fill their own niches. I would also like to note that I want all of their sounds from Halo 4 back. You may not share by views on Halo 4’s iterations, but I think we can all agree that they sounded infinitely better in Halo 4.

With all that said, here is what I propose:

Boltshot:

I know most people really despised this thing in Halo 4. It was a one hit kill loadout weapon and was even more powerful than the Shotgun and Scattershot. What made it even worse was that you could camp with it using Active Camo or Promethean Vision and there was just so little you could do to prevent you from dying over and over again. There was plenty of reason to despise this thing, and clearly something needed to change in Halo 5.

However, redoing the weapon completely from scratch was not the answer in my opinion. Removing loadouts and Promethean Vision plus making the Boltshot and Active Camo a power weapon/power up already fixes most of the problem. All that was needed at this point was to balance its numbers. The Boltshot really did not need a complete remake. Halo 5’s gameplay system alone makes it substantially less rage inducing and game breaking.

To balance it, the first thing I would do is significantly reduce its charge up one hit kill radius to about 80% the size of the Shotgun’s kill radius. It is a hybrid after all, and hybrid weapons should be worse than their functional counterparts. Next, I would give it a 2.5 second cool down time after firing the charged shot before the Boltshot can be used again. This prevents spamming it if it didn’t work the first time.

Next, I would slightly increase the damage of the single shot mode to a 9 shot perfect kill (In Halo 4, its a 13 shot perfect kill). Having a similar rate of fire to the Carbine, being 2 shots slower to kill still makes it useful, but certainly doesn’t make the Carbine useless. The next little tweak I would make is bring back the scope function in Halo 5 with the same visuals except without the floaty bits that formed the “wings” when charging up. Keep in mind, this zoom does nothing to the damage, rate of fire, or the kill radius/projectile spread of the charge up function. All it does is increase red reticle range.

Lastly, I would make it require at least 5 shots in the magazine for the charge up function to actually work. It was a bit ridiculous how in Halo 4 you could still charge up a devastating blast with only 1 shot left.

Suppressor:

I know, I know. This thing was pretty underpowered in Halo 4, especially when people had equal access to a Boltshot. It was nearly identical to the SMG, but just worse. Even though it’s basically an SMG copy and was extremely underpowered, it’s design had a lot of potential. In order to make it more unique and fill it’s own niche, I propose adding an entirely new secondary firing mode.

The Suppressor, by name and original Halo 4 design, is a weapon designed more for the purpose of keeping enemies at bay rather than directly dealing damage. For instance, in Halo 4, the Suppressor would be absolutely perfect for taking out massive hoards of flood infection forms and providing “suppressive” fire on any other flood in the area. I plan to expand and capitalize on that design purpose.

After reverting it back to Halo 4’s iteration and returning its magazine size to 60 rounds, I would add a charge up blast that after a few seconds would fire a grenade like projectile very similar to the projectiles fired from the Splinter Turret. This mass would detonate on impact that leaves a large area with lingering damage, similar to the Incendiary Grenade from Halo 3. This charge up shot would use (and require) 30 shots in the magazine.

This lingering damage would last for 10 seconds and would progressively get weaker over time. It also does very little damage to shields. However, once the shields are down, it is absolutely devastating to health. It would also disintegrate any bodies.

It would be worth noting that a direct hit from the charge up shot would all but guarantee a kill. The impact and immediate detonation of the projectile are only enough to pop a Spartan’s shields. However, the fresh lingering effect would kill you almost instantly since your shields are down.

This charge up shot would be fantastic at area denial and clean up, capitalizing on its suppressive role. While it is possible to use it to deal direct damage, doing to would be extremely difficult due to the shot being inaccurate, slow, and heavily influenced by gravity. It would also have a cool down feature, rendering the weapon completely unusable for a few seconds after firing the charged shot so it can vent heat, making it extremely punishing if you miss.

To balance out the primary firing mode and make it useful, I would simply increase projectile damage and velocity. I would also like to note that I would retain the zoom function from Halo 5 (with some visual changes of course), as this would be how you use the secondary firing mode.

Like I said, the way you use the charge up ability is by simply firing while scoped in. As such, you can’t use the Suppressor in full auto mode while zoomed in, and you cannot use the charge up function while descoped.

The visual changes I want to see to the zoom animation are:

  1. Aim down the middle of the weapon, rather than off to its side like in Halo 5.
  2. The top piece would simply lift up, not angled to any side.
  3. Completely symmetrical hardlight sights would appear beneath the floating top piece and in the crevice where it usually sits. Your reticle would be in the middle of this crevice.
  4. Floaty bits would detach and surround the barrel, which are used to help contain the charging up mass of hardlight. This is similar to the Light Rifle’s floaty bits just past the muzzle.


Light Rifle:

Yeah, I’ll admit, the Halo 4 Light Rifle is probably my favorite Halo weapon of all time. I don’t know why I love it so much, I just do. I’m also really not a fan of Halo 5’s Light Rifle. It just doesn’t feel right.

To be honest, there’s really not much I would change from Halo 4’s iteration. Heck, I even want them to revert to Halo 4’s physical model too, with the solid scope and red lights.

The only thing I would actually change is make the primary firing mode a 4 shot burst rather than a 3, just to separate it a little more from the Battle Rifle.

EDIT: Ok, so Banana InATux77 had an amazing suggestion to give the Light Rifle a charge up shot that would basically make it shoot Dying Star rounds. I’m going to integrate that into my own proposal with a few tweaks for balance.

This charge up shot could only be used while scoped in and it uses twice the ammunition per shot. The hardlight bolt also explodes on impact rather than being delayed a second like the Dying Star. This shot, on a direct hit, is strong enough to knock out 75% of a players shields.

However, the Light Rifle has a few second cool down after firing the charged shot before it can be used again. This shot also has an extremely powerful knockback effect, around two to three times as strong as the knockback effect on the Concussion Rifle, making it hilariously useful for dealing with small vehicles without dealing much damage.

Overall, this would make it a much less powerful scoped version of the Railgun.

Scattershot:

Again, Halo 4 Scattershot all the way. This thing was one of my all time favorites. Now it is one of my least favorites in Halo 5. First thing I would do to Halo 4’s iteration is make the projectiles fire in a specific pattern. Similar to Halo 5, but actually a pattern that matches the orientation of the barrels: 6 total projectiles with 4 making a square, 1 in the middle of this square, and 1 above the square, forming a classic pentagon house shape. (Or more specifically, a hexagon where each side is vertical and the bottom two sides are inverted, pointing upward.) I would also make the damage a bit more consistent.

Like the Suppressor, I also propose a new scope-activated secondary firing mode. When scoped in, instead of firing its typical shotgun blast, it would burst fire 6 precision shots from the 2 middle barrels with each firing 3 in an alternating pattern. These 6 shots would be incredibly accurate and have a fairly fast velocity, but the recoil would be a little on the strong side

It would be headshot capable and gets a perfect kill in only 4 shots, which is only a single burst. Like everything else, there would also be a cool down period after firing. Also, it doesn’t use or require any more or less ammo than the standard firing mode. You have 5 shotgun blasts, or 5 bursts, or any combination of the two.

I would also completely change the aiming animation, as Halo 5’s is just stupid. You know those two soda can tabs that float on top of the Scattershot but never do anything? They are essentially your scope now. They each split apart into 4 pieces and form a “ring” complete with hardlight shapes. The tab closest to you would form a rather large ring, while the one on the end would form a much smaller ring. Obviously, they would both be centered just above the weapon in the middle. Not off to the side or anything.

Binary Rifle:

I honestly really like the Binary Rifle from both games. They both are fun to use and have their own strengths and weaknesses. That is why my proposal for Infinite is essentially a combination of the two.

The primary firing mode would be Halo 5’s iteration, while the secondary would be very similar to Halo 4’s. What makes the secondary different is that you now have to charge it up. It also isn’t scope activated, all you need to do is simply hold the trigger, just like the Boltshot.

Also, the secondary mode requires and uses both shots in the magazine to work, so while it does an incredible amount of damage, it is extremely punishing if you miss. I would also increase the damage of this shot to be even higher than what it was in Halo 4. This would make it capable of killing a player even with a full health Overshield equipped, and would also make it extremely anti vehicle.

On top of that, charging up would activate the aiming laser, even if you aren’t scoped in. This balances out the fact that it is now very accurate from the hip. Also, when charging up, the barrel will begin to emit a very intense red glow, similar to the blue-white glow of a fully charged Railgun.

Incineration Cannon:

Talk about fall from grace. This thing in Halo 4 was God’s own anti son of a b*tch machine. In Halo 5, it’s just a giant hula hoop in comparison. A pathetic hula hoop at that. It is a pathetic shell of what it once was and an embarrassment to the name. I honestly can’t really even put into words just how much I utterly hate Halo 5’s iteration. It’s very existence makes me want to stick the end of a toothpick under my toenail and kick a wall.

The only thing Halo 5 did that wasn’t terrible to the Incineration Cannon was making it battery powered. So, yeah. Halo 4 all the way.

All I would change to the Halo 4 Incineration Cannon is make it a 4 shot battery, remove the zoom function, and give it an incredibly long cool down time between shots. That’s it. It’ll be the only Forerunner weapon without a secondary firing mode, but that’s alright because it really doesn’t need it. Also, give it red lights again rather than the not as good looking orange lights.

So there you have it. Thoughts?

Not bad ideas. I think that 343i may have been better off if they stuck to their guns pun only slightly intended and used some of these more minor tweaks for the Forerunner ordinance in comparison to the more dramatic overhauls they did with Halo 5- with a few exceptions.

I think the charged-up Boltshot in Halo 4 was more broken than Armor Lock in Reach MP- I think the changes you’re proposing would help a bit, but for it to simply be a smaller kill spread than the shotgun isn’t quite enough for my tastes. I think it should be more like the Mauler from H3, dealing reduced damage compared to the shotgun but useful as a shield breaker to chain a melee hit after or a finisher for a player trying to flee around a corner with no shields. This makes it more similar to the usefulness of the Plasma Pistol, rather than outshining all the other side arms in the game.

Also, I personally kind of like the Halo 5 suppressor. I completely get your point about it having a low skill floor, and shot tracking can be pretty annoying, but it is a much more satisfying weapon to hold and use in Halo 5 than it ever was in Halo 4 by my reckoning. Also, it isn’t a loadout weapon in Guardians, nor is it nearly as OP as the long-present Needler in the series. Overall, I’d rather keep this version than go back to the Halo 4 model. Considering I think Infinite’s sandbox should be dramatically scaled down from Halo 5, though, I’d honestly be okay with neither one coming back.

Overall, though, I think 343i could stand to take a look at what you’re saying here.

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> Not bad ideas. I think that 343i may have been better off if they stuck to their guns pun only slightly intended and used some of these more minor tweaks for the Forerunner ordinance in comparison to the more dramatic overhauls they did with Halo 5- with a few exceptions.
>
> I think the charged-up Boltshot in Halo 4 was more broken than Armor Lock in Reach MP- I think the changes you’re proposing would help a bit, but for it to simply be a smaller kill spread than the shotgun isn’t quite enough for my tastes. I think it should be more like the Mauler from H3, dealing reduced damage compared to the shotgun but useful as a shield breaker to chain a melee hit after or a finisher for a player trying to flee around a corner with no shields. This makes it more similar to the usefulness of the Plasma Pistol, rather than outshining all the other side arms in the game.
>
> Also, I personally kind of like the Halo 5 suppressor. I completely get your point about it having a low skill floor, and shot tracking can be pretty annoying, but it is a much more satisfying weapon to hold and use in Halo 5 than it ever was in Halo 4 by my reckoning. Also, it isn’t a loadout weapon in Guardians, nor is it nearly as OP as the long-present Needler in the series. Overall, I’d rather keep this version than go back to the Halo 4 model. Considering I think Infinite’s sandbox should be dramatically scaled down from Halo 5, though, I’d honestly be okay with neither one coming back.
>
> Overall, though, I think 343i could stand to take a look at what you’re saying here.

Thanks for replying!

Why exactly do you feel the Boltshot would still be broken? I mean, I don’t think a weapon needs to be big and intimidating to look at in order to be a ohk. I personally see nothing wrong with a weapon being the size of a sidearm having the power of a primary. In my personal opinion, just because a weapon is small doesn’t mean it must be a sidearm.

I honestly kinda like Halo 5’s Suppressor too. It’s somewhat fun and satisfying to use. However, it fills the role more of an assault rifle than that of an actual suppressor. It literally makes zero sense for a weapon like this to be called the Suppressor when it isn’t actually a suppressor.

Also, Halo 5’s Suppressor works in Halo 5 solely because of the advanced movement. Imagine having the same weapon in Halo 2A, where there is no sprint and no thrusters. Imagine how stupidly broken that would be. Literally the worst players would be able to dominate the lobby with that thing.

By the looks of things, I’m extremely confident Infinite will be more classic than Halo 5. Maybe not fully classic, but I highly doubt some of Halo 5’s advanced movement will return, making tracking projectiles even more cheap and powerful.

Curious, what did you think of my other suggestions?

I’m on board for your Boltshot changes, I have no idea why people think a Halo 4 style boltshot would be a problem when you take loadouts out of the equation. Without loadouts it would be a map pickup and its abilities wouldn’t be an issue in that context. I don’t believe Halo should have “sidearms” that are only meant to be used as backup weapons since you are limited to two weapons at all times regardless of size or weight.

I guess I’ll go a head and make my own pitch as well:
General: All Forerunner weapons that fire hardlight are capable of disintegration on kill. It is a great way to make the Forerunner weapons feel powerful without actually affecting the balancing. Hardlight weapons also do equal damage to health and shields to differentiate them from projectile weapons and plasma weapons. Hardlight weapons are all battery based with either an overheat or a fixed rate of fire.

Boltshot: Mostly the same as you suggested sans the smart scope. It would be battery based and overheat. Now has a blue glow and blue projectile to help diversify the visuals of the Forerunner arsenal.

Suppressor: A more radical change, the Suppressor has now been redesigned to fire the red needles used by the Halo 2 Enforcer Sentinels and has a red color scheme rather than orange. It has a 48 Round magazine that fire in a high spread pattern similar to its Halo 4 counterpart. However, when you press the zoom button it activates a “laser sight” that guides the needles to the target like a “wire guided” missile. Turn right the rounds you fired will curve right towards wherever your reticle is pointing. You could hypothetically fire your entire magazine into the air, then activate your laser pointer to cause the needles to rain down on your target. Think along the lines of the Hydra “hook shot” that requires you to manually aim. You can be ‘descoped’ just like a traditional scope and your needles will lose tracking.

Light Rifle: A mix of both the Halo 4 and Halo 5 versions with a battery mechanic and overheat. Unscoped fires a 3 round burst ala the Halo 4 version(5 shot kill), higher rate of fire, slow time to kill. When you scope you shoot like the Halo 5 version, 3 shots to kill, but with a slow rate of fire. In order to get the fastest time to kill, you have to combine both scoped and unscoped shots to get a 4 shot kill which would be fastest TTK. Make the LR more of a skill cannon with a punishing overheat if you fluff it up.

Scattershot: Fires in a fixed pattern like you described but once again is battery based and can overheat. Now deals lower damage per shot, but each ‘pellet’ is now explosive with knockback. Essentially an explosive auto shotty that exchanges raw damage for AOE explosives. Due to the danger of splash damage, it is now more comfortable at more of a medium range(compared to other close range power weapons). Can knock players and vehicles around ala Concussion rifle.

Binary Rifle: Battery but has a fixed rate of fire that cannot overheat with only one level of 8x zoom. Now fires in two stages, first stage fires an emp, followed by the second hardlight shot(both are relatively slow moving projectiles as opposed to being hitscan.) Incredibly powerful if both shots land. EMP can briefly stun unshielded AI. I want it to stay a ‘1 shot’ monster, tempered by the need to lead your shots far more than if you were using the Sniper Rifle along with additional utility ala the EMP shot.

Incinerator Cannon: Battery based with a fixed rate of fire, fires in a similar manner to its Halo 4 counterpart albeit with a bit lower damage. To make up for said lower damage, it can act like a “wire guided’” missile in a similar manner to new suppressor but without the need for the “laser sight”. Think a more balanced version of Ad Victoriam.

Splinter Turret and Grenade: I’m honestly pretty happy with both of them as is give or take some balance tweaks here and there. I think both of them fill a unique place in the sandbox that don’t step on the toes of any existing weapons.

> 2533274819446242;5:
> I’m on board for your Boltshot changes, I have no idea why people think a Halo 4 style boltshot would be a problem when you take loadouts out of the equation. Without loadouts it would be a map pickup and its abilities wouldn’t be an issue in that context. I don’t believe Halo should have “sidearms” that are only meant to be used as backup weapons since you are limited to two weapons at all times regardless of size or weight.
>
> I guess I’ll go a head and make my own pitch as well:
> General: All Forerunner weapons that fire hardlight are capable of disintegration on kill. It is a great way to make the Forerunner weapons feel powerful without actually affecting the balancing. Hardlight weapons also do equal damage to health and shields to differentiate them from projectile weapons and plasma weapons. Hardlight weapons are all battery based with either an overheat or a fixed rate of fire.
>
> Boltshot: Mostly the same as you suggested sans the smart scope. It would be battery based and overheat. Now has a blue glow and blue projectile to help diversify the visuals of the Forerunner arsenal.
>
> Suppressor: A more radical change, the Suppressor has now been redesigned to fire the red needles used by the Halo 2 Enforcer Sentinels and has a red color scheme rather than orange. It has a 48 Round magazine that fire in a high spread pattern similar to its Halo 4 counterpart. However, when you press the zoom button it activates a “laser sight” that guides the needles to the target like a “wire guided” missile. Turn right the rounds you fired will curve right towards wherever your reticle is pointing. You could hypothetically fire your entire magazine into the air, then activate your laser pointer to cause the needles to rain down on your target. Think along the lines of the Hydra “hook shot” that requires you to manually aim. You can be ‘descoped’ just like a traditional scope and your needles will lose tracking.
>
> Light Rifle: A mix of both the Halo 4 and Halo 5 versions with a battery mechanic and overheat. Unscoped fires a 3 round burst ala the Halo 4 version(5 shot kill), higher rate of fire, slow time to kill. When you scope you shoot like the Halo 5 version, 3 shots to kill, but with a slow rate of fire. In order to get the fastest time to kill, you have to combine both scoped and unscoped shots to get a 4 shot kill which would be fastest TTK. Make the LR more of a skill cannon with a punishing overheat if you fluff it up.
>
> Scattershot: Fires in a fixed pattern like you described but once again is battery based and can overheat. Now deals lower damage per shot, but each ‘pellet’ is now explosive with knockback. Essentially an explosive auto shotty that exchanges raw damage for AOE explosives. Due to the danger of splash damage, it is now more comfortable at more of a medium range(compared to other close range power weapons). Can knock players and vehicles around ala Concussion rifle.
>
> Binary Rifle: Battery but has a fixed rate of fire that cannot overheat with only one level of 8x zoom. Now fires in two stages, first stage fires an emp, followed by the second hardlight shot(both are relatively slow moving projectiles as opposed to being hitscan.) Incredibly powerful if both shots land. EMP can briefly stun unshielded AI. I want it to stay a ‘1 shot’ monster, tempered by the need to lead your shots far more than if you were using the Sniper Rifle along with additional utility ala the EMP shot.
>
> Incinerator Cannon: Battery based with a fixed rate of fire, fires in a similar manner to its Halo 4 counterpart albeit with a bit lower damage. To make up for said lower damage, it can act like a “wire guided’” missile in a similar manner to new suppressor but without the need for the “laser sight”. Think a more balanced version of Ad Victoriam.
>
> Splinter Turret and Grenade: I’m honestly pretty happy with both of them as is give or take some balance tweaks here and there. I think both of them fill a unique place in the sandbox that don’t step on the toes of any existing weapons.

Technically, all Forerunner weapons already are battery based. When reloading, instead of swapping magazines, you just replace the little battery inside it. Except the difference between these and traditional battery weapons, these batteries are small and simple enough to quickly change out on the field. Because of this, I’m not too keen on making them traditional battery weapons.

I honestly kinda like your Suppressor idea, although I think it would be better suited for an entirely new weapon that is larger and more heavy duty.

EDIT: This post got me promoted to ODST!! I’m finally a Helljumper now!

The Forerunner weapons are already fairly well balanced as is and doesn’t need much work in my opinion.
The Boltshot I would continue in the direction it’s going now as a viable pistol, no charge up. It could be a high rate of fire pistol, extend the red reticle range, and in exchange reduce the aim assist a bit and make it a 5 or 6 shot kill instead of 4. Make the projectiles have a better animation but still that nice squishy sound. Like a suppressor type orb projectile. Make it on par with the gunfighter magnum in performance.

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> > 2533274819446242;5:
> > Isnip
>
> Technically, all Forerunner weapons already are battery based. When reloading, instead of swapping magazines, you just replace the little battery inside it. Except the difference between these and traditional battery weapons, these batteries are small and simple enough to quickly change out on the field. Because of this, I’m not too keen on making them traditional battery weapons.
>
> I honestly kinda like your Suppressor idea, although I think it would be better suited for an entirely new weapon that is larger and more heavy duty.
>
> EDIT: This post got me promoted to ODST!! I’m finally a Helljumper now!

There are a couple reasons I prefer the Covenant style batteries. One is that all things considered, the mechanic has actually been pretty underutilized when you compare it to the whole of the sandbox with the entirety of the UNSC sandbox minus 1, the plurality of the Forerunner weapons, and even a large portion of the Covenant sandbox has been “magazine” based.

The second issue is that I generally hate the way weapons like the Boltshot disassemble to ‘reload’ or how the Forerunner ‘batteries’ used by the Scattershot are good for about 1 shot apiece. I recognize this is a personal issue on my part, but at the same time I think there is a lot of untapped potential, particularly for something like the Light Rifle as a batter based precision weapons isn’t something we have really had outside of power weapons like the Beam Rifle.

As for the Suppressor, I could just as easily live with it still firing hardlight, but I do still feel like the Forerunner sandbox is a bit monochromatic as it stands which is why I also suggested the Boltshot get a blue theme(since we know hardlight also comes in blue). As for the mechanics I don’t really see it being any more “heavy duty” than that of the Needler which aims for you and then explodes.

I generally want to do more with less as I think the sandbox has become bloated as of late so I would rather re-task existing weapons and add new mechanics to them rather than adding entirely new weapons that are the only ones to get unique features.

Fair point on the boltshot not having to be a loadout weapon, and that does repair some of my issue with it. I just got cooked by the little piece of - Yoink!- by corner-campers I-don’t-even-know how many times in Halo 4 matchmaking, so I do have a compunction against it having OHK power on that biased gut level.

To be honest, Halo 4 was a miss for me in most areas. I think your positions on these weapons are well thought out, but you’ve got more of a connection to them and a desire to see them shine again than I do, personally. The Promethians stuff hasn’t ever been something I’ve warmed up to beyond a very low degree, so my opinions should be taken with a grain of salt.

I’m willing to concede that if the Boltshot becomes a pickup only weapon (that can’t be picked up 6 times in one match) it’s fine the way it is. I still don’t really see how the H5 suppressor is more broken than the Needler- I take your point about the naming convention being a bit off, but I don’t think the semantics is a huge deal. If both the Boltshot and the Supressor returned (H4 style Bolty and H5 Style suppressor) and were both relegated to Needler-like pickup integration, I think they’d both be fine. The only thing that might have to be nerfed a bit is the mag size or damage per shot in the suppressor-- but I don’t think these would even need to be dramatically reduced on account of there being no supercombine effect on its tracking projectiles.

As for the other weapons listed, I just don’t choose to use them enough to have a strong opinion on whether the Halo 4 or 5 versions are superior. The Lightrifle is the only other one I’ve spent a lot of time with, but I’ve never quite adjusted to it to the point where I like either the Halo 4 or 5 iteration better than the DMR, BR, and Carbine just on account of personal preference.

Very good ideas. I agree with bolt shot especially. The thing that broke it was the loadouts and camo in halo 4. Halo 5s movements really would counteract what the initial problem was.

i think the rest of the weapons in Halo 5 were pretty well off now compared to halo 4. I do think tracking bullets need to go but I guess with halo 5s movements forerunner weapons from halo 4 don’t have much place so tracking was an attempt to change things up.

I thought the halo 4 forerunner weapons were just copies of what we had and just labeled different but they felt different in halo 5 and that’s good because these are ancient alien weapons that should function as clones of what we have already. Also the forerunner weapons we are using were originally made to combat the flood and I would like to see that emphasized in infinite.

In halo infinite the forerunner weapons should ALL have a disintegration affect. Next up I think 343 should introduce or change some current weapons to have more lasers. The forerunners were fans of lasers after all and used them to purge flood. It would be logical to conclude that their handheld weapons followed suite. But that’s just my thought

p.s. I appreciate the OPs formatting with their topic

I don’t think an overhaul of all the Forerunner weapons is something that we need. I thought all the weapons in Halo 4 were alright in their design (how they were implemented is a different discussion cough cough boltshot). Each of the new weapons I feel brought something new and unique to the table in a lot of cases.

  • The lightrifle allowed for burst and single fire action, a first for the Halo armory. - The suppressor was a good substitute for the SMG, or even if the SMG were added back in (like in Halo 5) it still would’ve held a unique spot, it being a projectile and all. - The boltshot, like the lightrifle, had 2 modes of fire, shotgun and single-fire. - The scattershot was, and still is, the only weapon that can reliably bounce off walls (besides the caster, but it’s a grenade launcher, so I wouldn’t count it here). - The binary rifle was the first, truly one shot sniper rifle. To balance this, it became the only weapon that cant be hip-fired accurately and also displayed a laser to wherever it was looking when scoped in, another big first for the Halo armory. - The incineration cannon was arguably the least unique of the forerunner weapons, but still had some unique characteristics, bouncing projectiles after its detonation made it easily the most dangerous of the rocket launchers, hiding behind a small bit of cover wouldn’t protect you from the blast every time anymore and you had to prepare for that.When halo 5 came out and reworked most of the weapons, it took away some of their uniqueness in a lot of ways.

  • The boltshot and suppressor became one in the same, but becoming tracking projectiles made it almost redundant for either one of their inclusions. - The lightrifle largely stayed the same, besides the burst mode, which got sped up almost to the point that it could be treated as a single shot unlike before - The scattershot got a well deserved buff, allowing for tracking after bouncing off surfaces, which in probably helped it out in being a unique corner shooting shotgun - The binary rifle became a laser weapon, still unique of course, but I feel not as much as the ladder. the only unique feature that had stuck with it was the laser when scoped in. - The incineration cannon I feel got the biggest drawback, removing the bouncing explosives and adding a charge up. If it’s not charged, it fired 2 pitiful explosives, that were nothing in comparison to the large explosion you got with charging it up.Edit
    In short, I don’t think the weapons need another re-haul, in fact, I think in a lot of ways, they should just revert back to the way things were in Halo 4.

Boltshot - I think crossing between 4 and 5 would actually be cool with this gun. You tap the trigger for a burst or hold for the charge move. Now damage should be determined by the amount of ammo left in the mag. How much ammo? How much damage? Also no idea

Light rifle - Revert it back to the H4 unscoped version but when you scope in and the shot becomes stronger. you can also hold the trigger to charge a shot that act like the rounds from dying star, giving increased vehicles damage and knock back properties

The rest I’m not too bothered about tbh

> 2535469995091439;7:
> The Forerunner weapons are already fairly well balanced as is and doesn’t need much work in my opinion.
> The Boltshot I would continue in the direction it’s going now as a viable pistol, no charge up. It could be a high rate of fire pistol, extend the red reticle range, and in exchange reduce the aim assist a bit and make it a 5 or 6 shot kill instead of 4. Make the projectiles have a better animation but still that nice squishy sound. Like a suppressor type orb projectile. Make it on par with the gunfighter magnum in performance.

Sorry I took so long to respond. Been a busy past few days.

Weapon balance has absolutely nothing to do weapon design and function. Balancing is when you change damage numbers, ammo count, accuracy, rrr, and rof. Changing weapon design and function is changing what exactly the weapon does, how it shoots, and what it shoots.

Halo 5’s sandbox is easily the most balanced out of all previous games, so the Forerunner weapons are obviously more balanced than Halo 4’s. That doesn’t mean the changes to design and function were a good thing, it just means the balancing devs are good at their job.

Im not suggesting these changes because I think they need to be rebalanced, I’m suggesting them because I have an issue with Halo 5’s functionalities in that they are cheap and not competitive.

> 2533274819446242;8:
> > 2535440120215345;6:
> > > 2533274819446242;5:
> > > Isnip
> >
> > Technically, all Forerunner weapons already are battery based. When reloading, instead of swapping magazines, you just replace the little battery inside it. Except the difference between these and traditional battery weapons, these batteries are small and simple enough to quickly change out on the field. Because of this, I’m not too keen on making them traditional battery weapons.
> >
> > I honestly kinda like your Suppressor idea, although I think it would be better suited for an entirely new weapon that is larger and more heavy duty.
> >
> > EDIT: This post got me promoted to ODST!! I’m finally a Helljumper now!
>
> There are a couple reasons I prefer the Covenant style batteries. One is that all things considered, the mechanic has actually been pretty underutilized when you compare it to the whole of the sandbox with the entirety of the UNSC sandbox minus 1, the plurality of the Forerunner weapons, and even a large portion of the Covenant sandbox has been “magazine” based.
>
> The second issue is that I generally hate the way weapons like the Boltshot disassemble to ‘reload’ or how the Forerunner ‘batteries’ used by the Scattershot are good for about 1 shot apiece. I recognize this is a personal issue on my part, but at the same time I think there is a lot of untapped potential, particularly for something like the Light Rifle as a batter based precision weapons isn’t something we have really had outside of power weapons like the Beam Rifle.
>
> As for the Suppressor, I could just as easily live with it still firing hardlight, but I do still feel like the Forerunner sandbox is a bit monochromatic as it stands which is why I also suggested the Boltshot get a blue theme(since we know hardlight also comes in blue). As for the mechanics I don’t really see it being any more “heavy duty” than that of the Needler which aims for you and then explodes.
>
> I generally want to do more with less as I think the sandbox has become bloated as of late so I would rather re-task existing weapons and add new mechanics to them rather than adding entirely new weapons that are the only ones to get unique features.

I honestly do like the idea of more battery based weapons, but it just doesn’t really fit the lore behind most of the Forerunner weapons. They were designed during a desperate time where efficiency was of upmost importance. Being battery operated wouldn’t be very efficient because once the battery runs out the weapon is useless.

While blue lights would be pretty aesthetically cool, it wouldn’t really be fitting. The Forerunner military has always used warm colors on their technology. Cool colors were used by lifeworkers and builders, and neither of them used the weapons we see in game.

I wouldn’t mind seeing more battery based Forerunner weapons in the future, but I would prefer them to be new weapons entirely. Perhaps they could be Forerunner weapons used during the Human-Forerunner War?

As for how big the sandbox has become, I personally have no problem with quantity as long as the quality is there. If 343 can do quantity AND quality with the sandbox, then I don’t see the issue.

> 2533274861158694;9:
> Fair point on the boltshot not having to be a loadout weapon, and that does repair some of my issue with it. I just got cooked by the little piece of - Yoink!- by corner-campers I-don’t-even-know how many times in Halo 4 matchmaking, so I do have a compunction against it having OHK power on that biased gut level.
>
> To be honest, Halo 4 was a miss for me in most areas. I think your positions on these weapons are well thought out, but you’ve got more of a connection to them and a desire to see them shine again than I do, personally. The Promethians stuff hasn’t ever been something I’ve warmed up to beyond a very low degree, so my opinions should be taken with a grain of salt.
>
> I’m willing to concede that if the Boltshot becomes a pickup only weapon (that can’t be picked up 6 times in one match) it’s fine the way it is. I still don’t really see how the H5 suppressor is more broken than the Needler- I take your point about the naming convention being a bit off, but I don’t think the semantics is a huge deal. If both the Boltshot and the Supressor returned (H4 style Bolty and H5 Style suppressor) and were both relegated to Needler-like pickup integration, I think they’d both be fine. The only thing that might have to be nerfed a bit is the mag size or damage per shot in the suppressor-- but I don’t think these would even need to be dramatically reduced on account of there being no supercombine effect on its tracking projectiles.
>
> As for the other weapons listed, I just don’t choose to use them enough to have a strong opinion on whether the Halo 4 or 5 versions are superior. The Lightrifle is the only other one I’ve spent a lot of time with, but I’ve never quite adjusted to it to the point where I like either the Halo 4 or 5 iteration better than the DMR, BR, and Carbine just on account of personal preference.

Would it have been fair for 343 to completely redesign the Plasma Pistol for Halo 5 because people could just do noob combos all day in Halo 4? Or maybe the fact that it rendered vehicle play completely useless? I realize the Plasma Pistol has been a staple in the franchise since the beginning, but say it wasn’t. Say the Plasma Pistol was a completely new weapon in Halo 4. Would it have been fair for 343 to completely redesign it in Halo 5 because it rendered vehicles and shields useless?

I don’t think it’s fair to compare the Needler to the Suppressor. The Needler has had 18 years for balancing, and imo the only reason it works is because of the supercombine. Instead or relying on raw damage like the Suppressor, the Needler just needs to get enough needles into your enemy. You can easily counter this by simply getting to cover in time and let the needles disappear. Since the individual needles do so little damage, you can be back in the right without having to wait for shield regen. The Suppressor attacks you with brute damage that you simply cannot counter. Weapons like that shouldn’t work with bad aim.

> 2533274915983628;10:
> Very good ideas. I agree with bolt shot especially. The thing that broke it was the loadouts and camo in halo 4. Halo 5s movements really would counteract what the initial problem was.
>
> i think the rest of the weapons in Halo 5 were pretty well off now compared to halo 4. I do think tracking bullets need to go but I guess with halo 5s movements forerunner weapons from halo 4 don’t have much place so tracking was an attempt to change things up.
>
> I thought the halo 4 forerunner weapons were just copies of what we had and just labeled different but they felt different in halo 5 and that’s good because these are ancient alien weapons that should function as clones of what we have already. Also the forerunner weapons we are using were originally made to combat the flood and I would like to see that emphasized in infinite.
>
> In halo infinite the forerunner weapons should ALL have a disintegration affect. Next up I think 343 should introduce or change some current weapons to have more lasers. The forerunners were fans of lasers after all and used them to purge flood. It would be logical to conclude that their handheld weapons followed suite. But that’s just my thought
> p.s. I appreciate the OPs formatting with their topic

Tracking projectiles are literally what define Halo 5’s Suppressor. Take that away and you’re left with something similar to the Assault Rifle but worse in every single conceivable way. I agree the tracking needs to go, but you can’t just remove it and be done with it. They’ll have to pretty much redesign the Suppressor again, and I am proposing that redesign.

I never really felt Halo 4’s were just copies but I can definitely see where people who share that belief come from. In my proposal, I made sure they would be as unique as possible while sticking with their original Halo 4 roots.

Being anti flood was emphasized in Halo 4, so returning to the Halo 4 design language would bring back that emphasis in Infinite.

> 2533274925727172;11:
> I don’t think an overhaul of all the Forerunner weapons is something that we need. I thought all the weapons in Halo 4 were alright in their design (how they were implemented is a different discussion cough cough boltshot). Each of the new weapons I feel brought something new and unique to the table in a lot of cases.
> - The lightrifle allowed for burst and single fire action, a first for the Halo armory. - The suppressor was a good substitute for the SMG, or even if the SMG were added back in (like in Halo 5) it still would’ve held a unique spot, it being a projectile and all. - The boltshot, like the lightrifle, had 2 modes of fire, shotgun and single-fire. - The scattershot was, and still is, the only weapon that can reliably bounce off walls (besides the caster, but it’s a grenade launcher, so I wouldn’t count it here). - The binary rifle was the first, truly one shot sniper rifle. To balance this, it became the only weapon that cant be hip-fired accurately and also displayed a laser to wherever it was looking when scoped in, another big first for the Halo armory. - The incineration cannon was arguably the least unique of the forerunner weapons, but still had some unique characteristics, bouncing projectiles after its detonation made it easily the most dangerous of the rocket launchers, hiding behind a small bit of cover wouldn’t protect you from the blast every time anymore and you had to prepare for that.When halo 5 came out and reworked most of the weapons, it took away some of their uniqueness in a lot of ways.
> - The boltshot and suppressor became one in the same, but becoming tracking projectiles made it almost redundant for either one of their inclusions. - The lightrifle largely stayed the same, besides the burst mode, which got sped up almost to the point that it could be treated as a single shot unlike before - The scattershot got a well deserved buff, allowing for tracking after bouncing off surfaces, which in probably helped it out in being a unique corner shooting shotgun - The binary rifle became a laser weapon, still unique of course, but I feel not as much as the ladder. the only unique feature that had stuck with it was the laser when scoped in. - The incineration cannon I feel got the biggest drawback, removing the bouncing explosives and adding a charge up. If it’s not charged, it fired 2 pitiful explosives, that were nothing in comparison to the large explosion you got with charging it up.EditIn short, I don’t think the weapons need another re-haul, in fact, I think in a lot of ways, they should just revert back to the way things were in Halo 4.

I agree with almost everything you said. The Light Rifle in Halo 5, however, does not have the burst fire mode. It isn’t sped up to the point of almost being single shot. It is a single shot. It’s literally just a DMR that does more damage with a slower rof when scoped in.

My overhaul proposal pretty much does revert them back to Halo 4’s iterations, with the biggest changes being just added features to help them feel unique. Not being unique and being over/underpowered in Halo 4 were the biggest complaints. My proposal addresses these complaints.

One more thing, the Scattershot most certainly did NOT get a buff in Halo 5. The rof was drastically reduced and it’s damage is even more inconsistent. In Halo 4, the Scattershot was one of my favorite weapons of all time. In Halo 5, the Scattershot is probably my all time least favorite.

> 2533274857165616;12:
> Boltshot - I think crossing between 4 and 5 would actually be cool with this gun. You tap the trigger for a burst or hold for the charge move. Now damage should be determined by the amount of ammo left in the mag. How much ammo? How much damage? Also no idea
>
> Light rifle - Revert it back to the H4 unscoped version but when you scope in and the shot becomes stronger. you can also hold the trigger to charge a shot that act like the rounds from dying star, giving increased vehicles damage and knock back properties
>
> The rest I’m not too bothered about tbh

I honestly don’t want a cross between Halo 4’s and Halo 5’s Boltshot. I despise the tracking projectiles and they have no place in the sandbox on a non explosive weapon. I also don’t really agree with the charge up using all of the ammo in the mag and the damage being variable. I’d much prefer to keep it simple and set at 5.

The Light Rifle still did increased damage in Halo 4 when scoped in. Now, I honestly like you’re charge up idea. I honestly might add it to my proposal in the OP. If req variants don’t return in Infinite (I really hope they don’t), then the sandbox will be without a precision weapon that shoots explosives, something I think could be very interesting.

> 2535440120215345;13:
> > 2533274819446242;8:
> > > 2535440120215345;6:
> > > > 2533274819446242;5:
> > > > Isnip
> > >
> > > Technically, all Forerunner weapons already are battery based. When reloading, instead of swapping magazines, you just replace the little battery inside it. Except the difference between these and traditional battery weapons, these batteries are small and simple enough to quickly change out on the field. Because of this, I’m not too keen on making them traditional battery weapons.
> > >
> > > I honestly kinda like your Suppressor idea, although I think it would be better suited for an entirely new weapon that is larger and more heavy duty.
> > >
> > > EDIT: This post got me promoted to ODST!! I’m finally a Helljumper now!
> >
> > There are a couple reasons I prefer the Covenant style batteries. One is that all things considered, the mechanic has actually been pretty underutilized when you compare it to the whole of the sandbox with the entirety of the UNSC sandbox minus 1, the plurality of the Forerunner weapons, and even a large portion of the Covenant sandbox has been “magazine” based.
> >
> > The second issue is that I generally hate the way weapons like the Boltshot disassemble to ‘reload’ or how the Forerunner ‘batteries’ used by the Scattershot are good for about 1 shot apiece. I recognize this is a personal issue on my part, but at the same time I think there is a lot of untapped potential, particularly for something like the Light Rifle as a batter based precision weapons isn’t something we have really had outside of power weapons like the Beam Rifle.
> >
> > As for the Suppressor, I could just as easily live with it still firing hardlight, but I do still feel like the Forerunner sandbox is a bit monochromatic as it stands which is why I also suggested the Boltshot get a blue theme(since we know hardlight also comes in blue). As for the mechanics I don’t really see it being any more “heavy duty” than that of the Needler which aims for you and then explodes.
> >
> > I generally want to do more with less as I think the sandbox has become bloated as of late so I would rather re-task existing weapons and add new mechanics to them rather than adding entirely new weapons that are the only ones to get unique features.
>
> I honestly do like the idea of more battery based weapons, but it just doesn’t really fit the lore behind most of the Forerunner weapons. They were designed during a desperate time where efficiency was of upmost importance. Being battery operated wouldn’t be very efficient because once the battery runs out the weapon is useless.
>
> While blue lights would be pretty aesthetically cool, it wouldn’t really be fitting. The Forerunner military has always used warm colors on their technology. Cool colors were used by lifeworkers and builders, and neither of them used the weapons we see in game.
>
> I wouldn’t mind seeing more battery based Forerunner weapons in the future, but I would prefer them to be new weapons entirely. Perhaps they could be Forerunner weapons used during the Human-Forerunner War?
>
> As for how big the sandbox has become, I personally have no problem with quantity as long as the quality is there. If 343 can do quantity AND quality with the sandbox, then I don’t see the issue.

As far as I am aware, there isn’t any “resource scarcity” reasoning behind the designs of these particular Forerunner weapons. I’m open to being corrected on this note, but to my knowledge that is just speculation on your part. Given how significantly the design of the Forerunner weapons(and other designs) changed from Halo 4 and Halo 5, I don’t think there is any reason to limit the changes we can make based on lore which is super malleable to start with.

The blue aesthetic is also not unprecedented by any stretch as seen here and here and elsewhere. Like I said “lore” is no reason to leave ourselves bound to rigid design doctrine and in this case the lore supports a varied aesthetic and we already have the precedent for changing it. That all being said I am not saying that my suggestions are the only way, just that something has to change because I don’t think the way Halo devs have been building the sandbox has been up to par.

I don’t have a problem with quantity in and of itself either, but both 343 and Bungie have had serious issues delivering on the “quality” part of the equation. In Halo 5 we have 4 bullet hoses, 5 precision rifles(not including variants), two reksinned sniper rifles, two shotguns, 3 tracking weapons that are mostly separated by their aesthetics not their gameplay niche. Halo devs just don’t have a proven track record of creating a sandbox with both quantity and quality, despite some of the bright spots.

Its not even like I’m advocating drastic cuts, only that we breath some life into the sandbox we have both visually and mechanically rather than covering up existing problems with yet more weapons. Sometimes that means drastically redesigning or replacing someones favorite weapon, but it simply isn’t realistic to expect that everyone get what they want in a single game. New weapons are great, but we need to get the old ones in order first.

> 2535440120215345;14:
> > 2533274915983628;10:
> >
>
>
>
> > 2533274925727172;11:
> > I don’t think an overhaul of all the Forerunner weapons is something that we need. I thought all the weapons in Halo 4 were alright in their design (how they were implemented is a different discussion cough cough boltshot). Each of the new weapons I feel brought something new and unique to the table in a lot of cases.
> > - The lightrifle allowed for burst and single fire action, a first for the Halo armory. - The suppressor was a good substitute for the SMG, or even if the SMG were added back in (like in Halo 5) it still would’ve held a unique spot, it being a projectile and all. - The boltshot, like the lightrifle, had 2 modes of fire, shotgun and single-fire. - The scattershot was, and still is, the only weapon that can reliably bounce off walls (besides the caster, but it’s a grenade launcher, so I wouldn’t count it here). - The binary rifle was the first, truly one shot sniper rifle. To balance this, it became the only weapon that cant be hip-fired accurately and also displayed a laser to wherever it was looking when scoped in, another big first for the Halo armory. - The incineration cannon was arguably the least unique of the forerunner weapons, but still had some unique characteristics, bouncing projectiles after its detonation made it easily the most dangerous of the rocket launchers, hiding behind a small bit of cover wouldn’t protect you from the blast every time anymore and you had to prepare for that.When halo 5 came out and reworked most of the weapons, it took away some of their uniqueness in a lot of ways.
> > - The boltshot and suppressor became one in the same, but becoming tracking projectiles made it almost redundant for either one of their inclusions. - The lightrifle largely stayed the same, besides the burst mode, which got sped up almost to the point that it could be treated as a single shot unlike before - The scattershot got a well deserved buff, allowing for tracking after bouncing off surfaces, which in probably helped it out in being a unique corner shooting shotgun - The binary rifle became a laser weapon, still unique of course, but I feel not as much as the ladder. the only unique feature that had stuck with it was the laser when scoped in. - The incineration cannon I feel got the biggest drawback, removing the bouncing explosives and adding a charge up. If it’s not charged, it fired 2 pitiful explosives, that were nothing in comparison to the large explosion you got with charging it up.EditIn short, I don’t think the weapons need another re-haul, in fact, I think in a lot of ways, they should just revert back to the way things were in Halo 4.
>
> I agree with almost everything you said. The Light Rifle in Halo 5, however, does not have the burst fire mode. It isn’t sped up to the point of almost being single shot. It is a single shot. It’s literally just a DMR that does more damage with a slower rof when scoped in.
>
> My overhaul proposal pretty much does revert them back to Halo 4’s iterations, with the biggest changes being just added features to help them feel unique. Not being unique and being over/underpowered in Halo 4 were the biggest complaints. My proposal addresses these complaints.
>
> One more thing, the Scattershot most certainly did NOT get a buff in Halo 5. The rof was drastically reduced and it’s damage is even more inconsistent. In Halo 4, the Scattershot was one of my favorite weapons of all time. In Halo 5, the Scattershot is probably my all time least favorite.

You’re absolutely right about the lightrifle, that’s my mistake.

In my opinion, i do believe the scattershot got a buff because from my experience, the spread got tighter, travel speed was increased. along with the addition of tracking after bouncing. However, I do see how you could make an argument for both, the overall damage was reduced and the fire rate was reduced makes it less appealing in that regard.

> 2533274819446242;15:
> > 2535440120215345;13:
> > > 2533274819446242;8:
> > > > 2535440120215345;6:
> > > > > 2533274819446242;5:
> > > > > Isnip
> > > >
> > > > Technically, all Forerunner weapons already are battery based. When reloading, instead of swapping magazines, you just replace the little battery inside it. Except the difference between these and traditional battery weapons, these batteries are small and simple enough to quickly change out on the field. Because of this, I’m not too keen on making them traditional battery weapons.
> > > >
> > > > I honestly kinda like your Suppressor idea, although I think it would be better suited for an entirely new weapon that is larger and more heavy duty.
> > > >
> > > > EDIT: This post got me promoted to ODST!! I’m finally a Helljumper now!
> > >
> > > There are a couple reasons I prefer the Covenant style batteries. One is that all things considered, the mechanic has actually been pretty underutilized when you compare it to the whole of the sandbox with the entirety of the UNSC sandbox minus 1, the plurality of the Forerunner weapons, and even a large portion of the Covenant sandbox has been “magazine” based.
> > >
> > > The second issue is that I generally hate the way weapons like the Boltshot disassemble to ‘reload’ or how the Forerunner ‘batteries’ used by the Scattershot are good for about 1 shot apiece. I recognize this is a personal issue on my part, but at the same time I think there is a lot of untapped potential, particularly for something like the Light Rifle as a batter based precision weapons isn’t something we have really had outside of power weapons like the Beam Rifle.
> > >
> > > As for the Suppressor, I could just as easily live with it still firing hardlight, but I do still feel like the Forerunner sandbox is a bit monochromatic as it stands which is why I also suggested the Boltshot get a blue theme(since we know hardlight also comes in blue). As for the mechanics I don’t really see it being any more “heavy duty” than that of the Needler which aims for you and then explodes.
> > >
> > > I generally want to do more with less as I think the sandbox has become bloated as of late so I would rather re-task existing weapons and add new mechanics to them rather than adding entirely new weapons that are the only ones to get unique features.
> >
> > I honestly do like the idea of more battery based weapons, but it just doesn’t really fit the lore behind most of the Forerunner weapons. They were designed during a desperate time where efficiency was of upmost importance. Being battery operated wouldn’t be very efficient because once the battery runs out the weapon is useless.
> >
> > While blue lights would be pretty aesthetically cool, it wouldn’t really be fitting. The Forerunner military has always used warm colors on their technology. Cool colors were used by lifeworkers and builders, and neither of them used the weapons we see in game.
> >
> > I wouldn’t mind seeing more battery based Forerunner weapons in the future, but I would prefer them to be new weapons entirely. Perhaps they could be Forerunner weapons used during the Human-Forerunner War?
> >
> > As for how big the sandbox has become, I personally have no problem with quantity as long as the quality is there. If 343 can do quantity AND quality with the sandbox, then I don’t see the issue.
>
> As far as I am aware, there isn’t any “resource scarcity” reasoning behind the designs of these particular Forerunner weapons. I’m open to being corrected on this note, but to my knowledge that is just speculation on your part. Given how significantly the design of the Forerunner weapons(and other designs) changed from Halo 4 and Halo 5, I don’t think there is any reason to limit the changes we can make based on lore which is super malleable to start with.
>
> The blue aesthetic is also not unprecedented by any stretch as seen here and here and elsewhere. Like I said “lore” is no reason to leave ourselves bound to rigid design doctrine and in this case the lore supports a varied aesthetic and we already have the precedent for changing it. That all being said I am not saying that my suggestions are the only way, just that something has to change because I don’t think the way Halo devs have been building the sandbox has been up to par.
>
> I don’t have a problem with quantity in and of itself either, but both 343 and Bungie have had serious issues delivering on the “quality” part of the equation. In Halo 5 we have 4 bullet hoses, 5 precision rifles(not including variants), two reksinned sniper rifles, two shotguns, 3 tracking weapons that are mostly separated by their aesthetics not their gameplay niche. Halo devs just don’t have a proven track record of creating a sandbox with both quantity and quality, despite some of the bright spots.
>
> Its not even like I’m advocating drastic cuts, only that we breath some life into the sandbox we have both visually and mechanically rather than covering up existing problems with yet more weapons. Sometimes that means drastically redesigning or replacing someones favorite weapon, but it simply isn’t realistic to expect that everyone get what they want in a single game. New weapons are great, but we need to get the old ones in order first.

I think you may have misunderstood. By efficiency, I didn’t mean resource efficiency, I meant battlefield efficiency. If you’re fighting off hordes of flood, it wouldn’t be very efficient to have to scavenge a new weapon every time the battery runs dry. It’s much easier to just swap it out and keep firing.

But you’re right. Gameplay takes precedent over lore, so lore isn’t a good argument to make when discussing gameplay changes. Still, I would honestly much rather have all the Forerunner weapons minus the Incineration Cannon be magazine fed rather than battery. I can’t really offer an argument for my stance, it’s just how I feel.

If 343 decides to give weapon variants another try in Infinite, I can definitely see blue weapons being analogous to the Brute Plasma Rifle vs regular Plasma Rifle. The blue Sentinel Beam did more damage but overheated quicker. Maybe some weapons can get blue variants that do more damage but carry less ammo or have a slower rof or something.

> 2533274925727172;16:
> > 2535440120215345;14:
> > > 2533274915983628;10:
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > > 2533274925727172;11:
> > > I don’t think an overhaul of all the Forerunner weapons is something that we need. I thought all the weapons in Halo 4 were alright in their design (how they were implemented is a different discussion cough cough boltshot). Each of the new weapons I feel brought something new and unique to the table in a lot of cases.
> > > - The lightrifle allowed for burst and single fire action, a first for the Halo armory. - The suppressor was a good substitute for the SMG, or even if the SMG were added back in (like in Halo 5) it still would’ve held a unique spot, it being a projectile and all. - The boltshot, like the lightrifle, had 2 modes of fire, shotgun and single-fire. - The scattershot was, and still is, the only weapon that can reliably bounce off walls (besides the caster, but it’s a grenade launcher, so I wouldn’t count it here). - The binary rifle was the first, truly one shot sniper rifle. To balance this, it became the only weapon that cant be hip-fired accurately and also displayed a laser to wherever it was looking when scoped in, another big first for the Halo armory. - The incineration cannon was arguably the least unique of the forerunner weapons, but still had some unique characteristics, bouncing projectiles after its detonation made it easily the most dangerous of the rocket launchers, hiding behind a small bit of cover wouldn’t protect you from the blast every time anymore and you had to prepare for that.When halo 5 came out and reworked most of the weapons, it took away some of their uniqueness in a lot of ways.
> > > - The boltshot and suppressor became one in the same, but becoming tracking projectiles made it almost redundant for either one of their inclusions. - The lightrifle largely stayed the same, besides the burst mode, which got sped up almost to the point that it could be treated as a single shot unlike before - The scattershot got a well deserved buff, allowing for tracking after bouncing off surfaces, which in probably helped it out in being a unique corner shooting shotgun - The binary rifle became a laser weapon, still unique of course, but I feel not as much as the ladder. the only unique feature that had stuck with it was the laser when scoped in. - The incineration cannon I feel got the biggest drawback, removing the bouncing explosives and adding a charge up. If it’s not charged, it fired 2 pitiful explosives, that were nothing in comparison to the large explosion you got with charging it up.EditIn short, I don’t think the weapons need another re-haul, in fact, I think in a lot of ways, they should just revert back to the way things were in Halo 4.
> >
> > I agree with almost everything you said. The Light Rifle in Halo 5, however, does not have the burst fire mode. It isn’t sped up to the point of almost being single shot. It is a single shot. It’s literally just a DMR that does more damage with a slower rof when scoped in.
> >
> > My overhaul proposal pretty much does revert them back to Halo 4’s iterations, with the biggest changes being just added features to help them feel unique. Not being unique and being over/underpowered in Halo 4 were the biggest complaints. My proposal addresses these complaints.
> >
> > One more thing, the Scattershot most certainly did NOT get a buff in Halo 5. The rof was drastically reduced and it’s damage is even more inconsistent. In Halo 4, the Scattershot was one of my favorite weapons of all time. In Halo 5, the Scattershot is probably my all time least favorite.
>
> You’re absolutely right about the lightrifle, that’s my mistake.
>
> In my opinion, i do believe the scattershot got a buff because from my experience, the spread got tighter, travel speed was increased. along with the addition of tracking after bouncing. However, I do see how you could make an argument for both, the overall damage was reduced and the fire rate was reduced makes it less appealing in that regard.

I honestly never really noticed a difference with the spread and travel speed, except the fact that universal smart link is, annoyingly, a thing. I also never use the bouncing ability except with Didact’s Signet. So to me, Halo 5’s Scattershot is a slower firing, not as cool sounding, and more inconsistent as Halo 4’s iteration.

One thing I really have about Halo 5’s changes is I have to play all the weapons so differently than what I learned and loved in Halo 4. Every single weapon requires such a different playstyle in 5 that simply don’t enjoy as much as I did in Halo 4.

Imagine the DMR in Halo Reach was instead the Battle Rifle. Using the same name and same physical model, but still functioned like a DMR. Wouldn’t that at the very least bother you a little, even if it’s still a good weapon in its own right?

A noob combo is a two hit kill, which is bad, but literally only half as bad as a OHK like the Boltshot is capable of. And as far as whether it’s fair to compare the Needler to the Suppressor? That’d definitely just be a matter of individual opinion. Given how relatively few needles it takes to achieve a super combine, I think it’s a fair comparison. I know which one of these I’d personally rather pick up if my team were behind 5 kills in slayer, and it’d be the Needler.

I could pretend the Plasma Pistol wasnt introduced in the first Halo game and it still wouldn’t be as overpowered of a loadout weapon as the Boltshot due to the double vs single hit kill potential if each, respectively. I’d definitely be more afraid of a bad player with a Needler than i would be of one with a H5 suppressor, too.

Both of these points are why I believe I voiced agreement with your idea that these weapons may not truly need to be rebalanced, but simply made into pickups rather than loadout weapons. I don’t have the whole thread in front of me while I’m writing this, so feel free to correct any reference I’m making to part of the conversation that didn’t happen. I was swayed by your argument that the Boltshot doesn’t need to be categorized as a sidearm (loadout weapon) and I believe the same idea applies to and can largely fix the problems present on the Suppressor.

Truthfully, I’ve found pretty much all the Promethian weapons to be bloating up the sandbox to some extent since their inclusion in Halo 4. I’ll disclose my personal distaste for that game again and that my opinion may have an effect on my objective ability to evaluate these elements of the sandbox. Some of them, as I’ve said, have grown on me a bit over time.

I’m just wondering why making them pickup only weapons isn’t a solution that’s satisfactory to us both? I know you prefer the Halo 4 Suppressor to the one in Halo 5- is that the only spot where we’re really disagreeing?

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> I think you may have misunderstood. By efficiency, I didn’t mean resource efficiency, I meant battlefield efficiency. If you’re fighting off hordes of flood, it wouldn’t be very efficient to have to scavenge a new weapon every time the battery runs dry. It’s much easier to just swap it out and keep firing.
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> But you’re right. Gameplay takes precedent over lore, so lore isn’t a good argument to make when discussing gameplay changes. Still, I would honestly much rather have all the Forerunner weapons minus the Incineration Cannon be magazine fed rather than battery. I can’t really offer an argument for my stance, it’s just how I feel.
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> If 343 decides to give weapon variants another try in Infinite, I can definitely see blue weapons being analogous to the Brute Plasma Rifle vs regular Plasma Rifle. The blue Sentinel Beam did more damage but overheated quicker. Maybe some weapons can get blue variants that do more damage but carry less ammo or have a slower rof or something.

A weapon without any magazines is just as useless as a weapon with a depleted battery. Eventually you are going to have to scavenge either ammo or weapons, I don’t really see any difference. And this is all assuming the Forerunner’s didn’t have some way to recharge their weapons that primitive Humanity and Covenant can’t easily replicate in the field or otherwise draw power directly from their suits, or any number of things. At the end of the day it is still just speculation about fictional weapon systems and ultimately we could use whatever excuse we want one way or the other.

As far as variants goes I really don’t see the benefits in spending time on such minor sandbox changes. I’d rather just spice up the core sandbox both visually and mechanically than bother adding in entirely separate weapons for what amounts to little more than reskins.