Forerunner Weapons: How can they be made unique?

This started as a tiny reply to DecepticonCobra in the Halo 5 Enemies thread and… got out of hand. Figured it’d be more useful as its own topic.

We need more distinction between Promethean/Forerunner weapons and their obvious counterparts in Covie/UNSC arms as far as form/function/role goes. They had unique aspects, but were very clearly a parallel to other weapons without much to distinguish them as unique in my opinion.

The issue with adding a whole third tech line in Halo is the same issue StarCraft would have adding a fourth playable race: When what you originally had filled about every role perfectly with minimal overlap… how the hell do you add more without creating ultra-specialized equipment or rehashing the previous roster? This is my break-down of the issue I’ve got here:

UNSC Equipment is primarily clip-based with a few battery-op weapons in special roles. Almost exclusively ballistic in nature. Good at sustaining steady fire on targets, accuracy-based for the most part, but average to subpar when pitted against energy shields. Highly effective against vehicles and unshielded personnel alike with a wide array of high-impact and high-explosive to choose from. Weapons are generally made to be well-rounded used by a solitary soldier.

Form is generally boxy with rounded corners in gray or green hues. They’re a mashup of your typical ‘space gun’ fare with modern military design aspects.

This is where ‘futuristic but familiar’ belongs.

Covenant Equipment is largely battery-powered with overheat as a way to force similar firing pauses to reloading a UNSC weapon, with a small handful of clip-based projectile weapons of… sometimes uncertain method of function. Weapons typically fire superheated plasma or radioactive projectiles. Overheat makes sustained fire on targets more problematic and non-serviceable batteries disallow scavenging of additional ammuntion without replacing the unit. Weapons are mostly ineffectual at engaging vehicles, but excel at stripping shielding. With a very small amount of exceptions, Covenant weapons focus on getting as much pain ‘somewhere over there’ as possible and are designed to be fired by large amounts of users simultaneously.

Design for Covenant weapons uses a lot of color and curvature, feeling very strange and organic for weaponry and flips between high-tech versions of the archaic to almost high-fantasy levels of oddity.

This is where ‘What the hell is that and how does it work?’ used to find its exclusive home.

Now, with those two things… where does a third fit?

Forerunner Equipment uses HardLight-based technology that behaves very similarly to UNSC bullets with a few quirks such as the ability to disintegrate targets and the Scattershot’s bizarre ricocheting fletchette rounds. Weapons tend to be either highly overpowered per bullet or almost useless with seemingly little mid-ground. Knowing these weapons were not designed as anti-personnel solutions but anti-Flood justifies some of this from a lore standpoint, but not from a multiplayer gameplay position. Forerunner arms appear to be ‘all or nothing’ and have somewhat arbitrary sub-aspects that serve relatively no purpose or even detract from use in multiplayer, such as the Scattershot’s seemingly ‘dice-roll’ kill range or the Boltshot’s entire primary firing mode’s pathetic DPS.

Stylistically, Forerunner weapons are alien, but familiar enough. They’re all the familiar silver-gray we associate with the Forerunner race with splashes of viciously glowing orange as accent, unique in the way they seem to disregard known conventions of construction and physics. They sit as odd silver curiosities amidst the older roster of Covenant and UNSC firearms, providing little unique function themselves, but rather seeming to offer intriguing parodies of the abilities of both.

I eagerly await seeing more than just the LightRifle in Halo 5, but I worry. The LR seems to have found its home as a powerful mid-long range rifle with a low fire rate and scarce ammunition. I hope the others find the same sense of identity of role. I’ve laid out my problem with them, but I have so far relatively little in way of solution. What does everyone think could be done to give Forerunner weapons their own ‘Forerunnery’ feel?

They could start by bring the sentinel beam back, how about a vortex/black hole gun you charge it up like a spartan laser then it fires a blast that sucks in players and vehicles surrounding it but somehow associated with hard light tech? Thats the best I can think of right now. But I do want forerunner weaponry to feel more unique as well.

Yeah I agree.

I think it would be pretty sweet if Forerunner weapons had secondary modes of fire that would make them much more unique and distinct from the basic UNSC/Covenant weaponry. Perhaps even make them power weapons.

Examples:

Primary Fire: LightRifle rounds
Secondary Fire: Generates a small shield infront of the user (much like a hardlight shield)

Primary Fire: Suppressor
Secondary Fire: Generates a stasis field (about the same size as a bubble shield), where vehicles, people and projectiles move much slower, like in “bullet time”.

Think about unreal tournament where each weapon had a vastly different secondary fire that made each weapon interesting to use.

> 2533274796080930;2:
> They could start by bring the sentinel beam back, how about a vortex/black hole gun you charge it up like a spartan laser then it fires a blast that sucks in players and vehicles surrounding it but somehow associated with hard light tech? Thats the best I can think of right now. But I do want forerunner weaponry to feel more unique as well.

I’ve been playing Destiny for weeks on end, as a Warlock no less… and I missed ‘AoE Void Explosion’ as an idea? Shame on me!

The only Area of Effect Over Time weapons I’ve ever seen in Halo are the Firebomb/Flamethrower and the Pulse Grenade that I can recall. A heavy weapon with a sustained AoE would be entirely unique. Perhaps replacing the Pulse Grenade with a gravity-well/flash repulsion (throws things away from it) type effect would also work? Would definitely be a more tactical grenade, especially if it dealt no actual damage of its own, but you could use it to throw vehicles off cliffs or vehicles at people or cover an escape/block an entrance.

I love you! You’ve gotten my brain unstuck!

EDIT: And you as well, Dragnet 38! A secondary firing mode of a non-lethal variety would be certainly unparalleled in the Covenant and UNSC arsenal. That could be the role they fill: Firepower as a primary aspect, but more important than its killing potential could be its defensive uses. Within that, you could actually get away with keeping the Halo 4 guns with tweaks (a la H5 LightRifle) and add onto the Forerunner roster by making purely defensive/utility gadgets.

Stuff with some risk/reward on it like draining your own shields to give a 10% Damage Boost to proximity allies or some kind of short-range teleport device or grappling tool? Or am I going a bit far here?

I think they should act more as a tool rather than a weapon. The equipment we saw in halo 3 should be what the Promethean weapons are. Since covenant weapons mainly have a power supply, that eventually runs out, and human weapons have clips that need to be reloaded. Promethean weapons should have really small amounts of ammunition that need to recharge over time. Here are some ideas taht I had: Their should be a gun that fires land mine projectiles, a black hole gun, like the one that Mnkymn89 talked about in his comment, a bubble shield, like gun, that uses hardlight as the shield. A gun that shoots a energy drain a short distance, and a grav lift gun, that when shot at your feet, pushes you in the air, and can push targets backwards, potential off ledges or into explosives. It could also work on vehicles, but not with the same power. Again, these are just a few ideas, and I think that having them become equipment in weapon form, rather than just a random third weapon class that doesn’t really work would be a great solution. However, we have not seen what 343i has planned for this, and so far I do agree that the lightrifle does fit surprisingly well in halo 5’s sandbox.

I once saw a mod for Halo 4 that changed how the Suppressor worked. When it wasn’t being fired, the reticule was in full bloom, and it shrank as it fired, which actually made it more accurate as you fired it. I think that would be a pretty neat way to set it apart from the other automatics, what do you think?

I think Forerunner weapons should be better at killing Flood than UNSC and Covenant weapons.

For starters I think all promethean weapons need to be capable of disintegration. It is a good way to make the tier 1 forerunner weapons feel powerful without messing with balance. Imagine getting headshots on several grunts in a row with the light rifle and watching them all melt away. It would also work the other way around, imagine watching Marines and your allies melt around you when faced with promethean weapons.

As for the weapons themselves, I feel like they should definitely be the most powerful weapons in their class, but they have their own drawbacks. I feel like the Binary Rifle, iCannon, and Light rifle already do this pretty well and in Halo 5 the LR felt almost perfect.

As for the rest of them.
Binary Rifle: Rather than a traditional scope, the Binary has built in Promethean vision

Incinerator cannon: It is now player guided ala BF4 SRAW.

Scattershot: More accurate, consistent damage, now with explosive rounds to make bouncing around corners more viable. Splash damage makes it dangerous to use at point blank.

Boltshot: Overcharge is now a single bolt that is a OHK headshot(body shots take two). Essentially it will act a bit like the railgun, but limited to closer ranges.

Suppressor: Honestly now sure with this one, perhaps make it a burst fire auto weapon with 6 round bursts?

I want a Forerunner weapon like the weapon in Halo Legends that is made of pure hard light and fires energy rounds that combine to cause an explosion equivalent to a plasma grenade.

> 2533274827546373;4:
> I’ve been playing Destiny for weeks on end, as a Warlock no less… and I missed ‘AoE Void Explosion’ as an idea? Shame on me!
>
> The only Area of Effect Over Time weapons I’ve ever seen in Halo are the Firebomb/Flamethrower and the Pulse Grenade that I can recall. A heavy weapon with a sustained AoE would be entirely unique. Perhaps replacing the Pulse Grenade with a gravity-well/flash repulsion (throws things away from it) type effect would also work? Would definitely be a more tactical grenade, especially if it dealt no actual damage of its own, but you could use it to throw vehicles off cliffs or vehicles at people or cover an escape/block an entrance.
>
> I love you! You’ve gotten my brain unstuck!

haha just doing what i can, but speaking of which i’d love to see the flame greanades and flamethrower return. also i would keep the pulse grenade as its serves a unique purpose plus if i’m not mistaken your alternative seems to act as a gravity hammer in grenade form in which i’d probably just stick with the hammer.

> 2533274819446242;8:
> For starters I think all promethean weapons need to be capable of disintegration. It is a good way to make the tier 1 forerunner weapons feel powerful without messing with balance. Imagine getting headshots on several grunts in a row with the light rifle and watching them all melt away. It would also work the other way around, imagine watching Marines and your allies melt around you when faced with promethean weapons.
>
> As for the weapons themselves, I feel like they should definitely be the most powerful weapons in their class, but they have their own drawbacks. I feel like the Binary Rifle, iCannon, and Light rifle already do this pretty well and in Halo 5 the LR felt almost perfect.
>
> As for the rest of them.
> Binary Rifle: Rather than a traditional scope, the Binary has built in Promethean vision
>
> Incinerator cannon: It is now player guided ala BF4 SRAW.
>
> Scattershot: More accurate, consistent damage, now with explosive rounds to make bouncing around corners more viable. Splash damage makes it dangerous to use at point blank.

i like your ideas for the binary rifle and scattershot, but i’m unfamiliar with bf4 so i dont know how the SRAW fuctions.

> 2533274796080930;10:
> i like your ideas for the binary rifle and scattershot, but i’m unfamiliar with bf4 so i dont know how the SRAW fuctions.

Its a player guided missile. Basically it moves based on where you are pointing your reticle.

I think that 343i should tone down/decrease the damage caused by the Scattershot because it’s a little more powerful and useful compared to the (UNSC) shotgun.

Shotgun Traits: High Damage, Close Range, Medium Reload Time, Medium Fire Speed
Scattershot Traits: Medium Damage, Close Range, Medium Reload Time, Fast Fire Speed, Bullets Can Bounce Off Objects

First off, I think most Promie weapons should be remade into power weapons and used extremely sparingly.

I had an idea. Instead of a scattershot as a short ranged stand-in, what if we fused it with, say, the boltshot and pulse grenade? The idea is that it would basically be a grenade launcher from Reach with a bit of an area of effect. Holding down the trigger increases its range but also increases the spread of projectiles, making it less acurate. They’d bounce until you let go, activating the Pulse from the grenades.

For a close ranged weapon in lieu of a scattershot, we could use one of those giant hard light blades the Knights carry around. I mean, I need a hard light blade.

I had an idea for a legendary weapon as well. It’d be called Reclamation, or something like that. It would look like a Forerunner suit of armor, probably in the middle of the map. When the user gets in, mobility is drastically reduced (maybe even completely nullified) but the user is given mastery of Halo physics, akin to the Didact’s force powers in Halo 4. Players utilizing this weapon may move physics objects (grenades, crates, vehicles, corpses, players?) with telekinesis - blocking gunfire with stuff they find around the map, changing the direction of grenades, moving around vehicles and messing with players. :smiley:

Aesthetically, I think it would be cool if Promethean weapons were something a player both held and wore. As soon as I pick up a gun, all the shiny, floaty, foldy bits rearrange themselves as pieces of armor on my arm, and a giant freaking pauldron on my shoulder, unique to whatever gun I’mean carrying. It would offer no game play difference, I just think it would look cool.

Lastly, what do you guys think about Flood weapons? I think a Flood claw that functions as an Energy Sword, but can revive the corpse of an enemy as an AI Combat form would be cool. Or maybe we have a Grenade that swells up like a balloon and shoots Infection forms everywhere. Anything for more AI in multiplayer.

> 2533274978553590;6:
> I once saw a mod for Halo 4 that changed how the Suppressor worked. When it wasn’t being fired, the reticule was in full bloom, and it shrank as it fired, which actually made it more accurate as you fired it. I think that would be a pretty neat way to set it apart from the other automatics, what do you think?

This is a fantastic idea. The only other alternative I can think of would be to turn it into a Flamethrower type weapon, but in increased accuracy as it shoots sounds so much nicer.

> 2533274978553590;6:
> I once saw a mod for Halo 4 that changed how the Suppressor worked. When it wasn’t being fired, the reticule was in full bloom, and it shrank as it fired, which actually made it more accurate as you fired it. I think that would be a pretty neat way to set it apart from the other automatics, what do you think?

That sounds impossible, and alien.

Pretty much everything a Forerunner weapon should be.

In the H5 Beta the LightRifle was upgraded and is a 2 to 3-shot kill now (I think). I’m glad 343i set it apart from the BR, so now there will be more diversity in the weapons.
Hopefully they will be doing this to the other weapons. A few ideas;

  • Binary Rifle, lowered damage per shot, maybe 2 shots to take down a shield except for a headshot, unless a shot ricochets off a wall and hits a player, which would be extremely cool and could be a insta-kill or take down shields with 1 shot, maybe increase mag size to 3?- Scattershot, Ricochet increased, and damage/range decreased. Makes it more useful in short range battles but gives the regular Shotgun or other weapons a chance to kill/lower shields- Incineration Cannon, I don’t think this needs much change, since theres nothing really related- Suppressor, Longer range, maybe full auto shooting at a shorter range or slow semi-auto shooting for increased range? LightRifle seems a bit to OP from the Beta to be a primary weapon, and these mechanics could help replace a Forerunner semi-auto rifle that the LightRifle - Boltshot, I think it stands out as a unique weapon, but maybe nerf the burst a little?These are my thoughts

I don’t think they need to be very unique. To me the distinction between the BR and DMR or the AR and SMG should be the model of difference a weapon needs to have to be brought into the game.

> 2535421619942348;13:
> First off, I think most Promie weapons should be remade into power weapons and used extremely sparingly.
>
> I had an idea. Instead of a scattershot as a short ranged stand-in, what if we fused it with, say, the boltshot and pulse grenade? The idea is that it would basically be a grenade launcher from Reach with a bit of an area of effect. Holding down the trigger increases its range but also increases the spread of projectiles, making it less acurate. They’d bounce until you let go, activating the Pulse from the grenades.
>
> For a close ranged weapon in lieu of a scattershot, we could use one of those giant hard light blades the Knights carry around. I mean, I need a hard light blade.
>
> I had an idea for a legendary weapon as well. It’d be called Reclamation, or something like that. It would look like a Forerunner suit of armor, probably in the middle of the map. When the user gets in, mobility is drastically reduced (maybe even completely nullified) but the user is given mastery of Halo physics, akin to the Didact’s force powers in Halo 4. Players utilizing this weapon may move physics objects (grenades, crates, vehicles, corpses, players?) with telekinesis - blocking gunfire with stuff they find around the map, changing the direction of grenades, moving around vehicles and messing with players. :smiley:
>
> Aesthetically, I think it would be cool if Promethean weapons were something a player both held and wore. As soon as I pick up a gun, all the shiny, floaty, foldy bits rearrange themselves as pieces of armor on my arm, and a giant freaking pauldron on my shoulder, unique to whatever gun I’mean carrying. It would offer no game play difference, I just think it would look cool.
>
> Lastly, what do you guys think about Flood weapons? I think a Flood claw that functions as an Energy Sword, but can revive the corpse of an enemy as an AI Combat form would be cool. Or maybe we have a Grenade that swells up like a balloon and shoots Infection forms everywhere. Anything for more AI in multiplayer.

Good ideas. Now I want 343i to make these changes for Halo 5.

> 2533275007059966;16:
> In the H5 Beta the LightRifle was upgraded and is a 2 to 3-shot kill now (I think). I’m glad 343i set it apart from the BR, so now there will be more diversity in the weapons.
> Hopefully they will be doing this to the other weapons. A few ideas;
> - Binary Rifle, lowered damage per shot, maybe 2 shots to take down a shield except for a headshot, unless a shot ricochets off a wall and hits a player, which would be extremely cool and could be a insta-kill or take down shields with 1 shot, maybe increase mag size to 3?
> - Scattershot, Ricochet increased, and damage/range decreased. Makes it more useful in short range battles but gives the regular Shotgun or other weapons a chance to kill/lower shields
> - Incineration Cannon, I don’t think this needs much change, since theres nothing really related
> - Suppressor, Longer range, maybe full auto shooting at a shorter range or slow semi-auto shooting for increased range? LightRifle seems a bit to OP from the Beta to be a primary weapon, and these mechanics could help replace a Forerunner semi-auto rifle that the LightRifle
> - Boltshot, I think it stands out as a unique weapon, but maybe nerf the burst a little?
> These are my thoughts

Nice ideas but personally, I would lower the mag size of the binary rifle to 1 shot, increase the ricochet trait, and keep everything else about it the same.

> 2533274833380875;17:
> I don’t think they need to be very unique. To me the distinction between the BR and DMR or the AR and SMG should be the model of difference a weapon needs to have to be brought into the game.

What about Magnum vs Plasma Pistol? Needler vs Plasma Rifle? Energy Sword vs Shotgun? BR vs CC? Sniper vs Focus Rifle? I prefer differences like these. Weapons fill the same gameplay hole, but do it vastly differently.