For the misinformed players. (about the TU)

Games Other Halo
1

Lets not get me lock’d this time okay <3

I was reading a post earlier said something about rapid fire controllers with the BR

Please stop saying that.

The BR can not be fired passed its fire rate, due to it have a fixed fire rate.

Clear up some things

Halo 2 BR could technically go over its rate of fire, only by using button combos. but that was not intended by bungie.
The DMR is the first precision that has controllable rate of fire. Which caused issues with some of the community.

Also Stop saying the TU plays Like halo 3, Because it does not. Halo 3 did not have jet pack, Armor lock, Active camo, sprint, and ridicule bloom

The only thing it has in common with it is Bleed though and thats a STAPLE mechanic of the older halo games.

Edit1: The reach movement has not been sped up. Its the same. The only thing that has changed is the pace of the game due to bloom being changed to 85 bloom. AC and AL nerfs as well.(Thank god)

Edit2: The Classic playlist is separate from the Tu settings found in the other playlist.

Edit3: Bleedthough has been in halo Since halo CE. I have to state this twice because people still think it started in halo 3.

Edit 4: ZB and MLG are separate as well. seeing their settings will never go game wide.

If you are going to debate something against the title update,

Please Make sure you are logically debating this issue instead of spreading misconceptions everywhere. trust me its really hurting the community and it causes everyone to be on different pages on the subject.

Thanks.

2

Spamming is the indiscriminate use of something.
Though pacing has no effect on the H3BR bloom, firing your BR as fast as possible hoping to paint your target with enough bullets IS spamming.

In Reach, grenades and melees have cool-down times in their use, yet I can spam those. Heck, easier to spam melees in previous Halos with button combos allowing for true double beat-downs.

The worst spamming weapon of them all? The ZBM6. Watching the montages of players running around using 8 bullets per kill as the roam a map using nothing but the pistol…
Oh yes indeed it is skillful to do so, stay alive I mean.
As for averaging 8 bullets per kill, that is the very reason bloom is used as it is in Reach.

Yes it may be preferable to some players to have weapons that work like the ZBM6.
But if player A spams 8 shots with a ZBM6 and player B paces 5 shots with a blooming M6 and they both get the kill in the same time, whose more skilled?
They both avoided death long enough to impose it, one did it near flawlessly, the other very sloppily.

Before you answer remember this, the CEM6 and H3BR are projectile based weapons, the H2M6 and RM6 are hitscan. The positioning of the reticle is greatly affected by the nature of the weapon’s means of hit-detection.

3

> Spamming is the indiscriminate use of something.
> Though pacing has no effect on the H3BR bloom, firing your BR as fast as possible hoping to paint your target with enough bullets IS spamming.
>
> In Reach, grenades and melees have cool-down times in their use, yet I can spam those. Heck, easier to spam melees in previous Halos with button combos allowing for true double beat-downs.
>
> The worst spamming weapon of them all? The ZBM6. Watching the montages of players running around using 8 bullets per kill as the roam a map using nothing but the pistol…
> Oh yes indeed it is skillful to do so, stay alive I mean.
> As for averaging 8 bullets per kill, that is the very reason bloom is used as it is in Reach.
>
> Yes it may be preferable to some players to have weapons that work like the ZBM6.
> But if player A spams 8 shots with a ZBM6 and player B paces 5 shots with a blooming M6 and they both get the kill in the same time, whose more skilled?
> They both avoided death long enough to impose it, one did it near flawlessly, the other very sloppily.
>
> Before you answer remember this, the CEM6 and H3BR are projectile based weapons, the H2M6 and RM6 are hitscan. The positioning of the reticle is greatly affected by the nature of the weapon’s means of hit-detection.

If you noticed, I changed the OP slightly

I took the word spamming out completely.

I saw it caused the same conflict as before.

4

Misinformed = Your opinion is different to mine, amirite.

Edited by Moderator - Please do not post spam.

5

I stand by my copy and paste. You are referring to what others call and what you previously referred to as spamming.

Now you need to fix something.

> The BR can not be fired passed its fire rate, due to it have a fixed fire rate.

The DMR cannot be fired faster than its max RoF either. The H2BR CAN.

You mean to say that no amount of firing control can control the H3BR bloom. Only by firing when red reticle can a player hope to control the bloom of the H3BR.

The DMR can be fired faster than optimal. Something no other weapon has done before.

The H3BR cannot be over-shot. The H2BR can.

6

> I stand by my copy and paste. You are referring to what others call and what you previously referred to as spamming.
>
> Now you need to fix something.
>
>
> > The BR can not be fired passed its fire rate, due to it have a fixed fire rate.
>
> The DMR cannot be fired faster than its max RoF either. The H2BR CAN.
>
> You mean to say that no amount of firing control can control the H3BR bloom. Only by firing when red reticle can a player hope to control the bloom of the H3BR.
>
> The DMR can be fired faster than optimal. Something no other weapon has done before.
>
> The H3BR cannot be over-shot. The H2BR can.

The H2BR can over shoot due to button glitches. Which were never intended from the get go. by default it can not be fire beyond its fire rate without glitches.

“The DMR can be fired faster than optimal. Something no other weapon has done before.”

The point I was making.

7

> Misinformed = Your opinion is different to mine, amirite

Misinformed =Misinformed.

Its not opinion.

8

> I stand by my copy and paste. You are referring to what others call and what you previously referred to as spamming.
>
> Now you need to fix something.
>
>
> > The BR can not be fired passed its fire rate, due to it have a fixed fire rate.
>
> The DMR cannot be fired faster than its max RoF either. The H2BR CAN.
>
> You mean to say that no amount of firing control can control the H3BR bloom. Only by firing when red reticle can a player hope to control the bloom of the H3BR.
>
> The DMR can be fired faster than optimal. Something no other weapon has done before.
>
> The H3BR cannot be over-shot. The H2BR can.

That’s because the H2BR was awesome and people were jelly of my double shot lol.

The majority of players consider firing faster than optimal “spamming”.

I tend to er on the side of uniformity because I like to be understood.

Although you are incorrect in saying the DMR was the first to fire that way. The automatics have always functioned this way. You should edit your post with “first precision weapon”.

9

> Misinformed = Your opinion is different to mine, amirite.

The irony is that after you flame, you then say stay classy.

Edited by Moderator - Please do not post spam.

10

> Spamming is the indiscriminate use of something.
> Though pacing has no effect on the H3BR bloom, firing your BR as fast as possible hoping to paint your target with enough bullets IS spamming.
>
> In Reach, grenades and melees have cool-down times in their use, yet I can spam those. Heck, easier to spam melees in previous Halos with button combos allowing for true double beat-downs.

To me firing at the maximum RoF does not imply indiscriminate use of something, if you have consistently high accuracy, itis in no way indiscriminate and IMO is no longer “Spamming”. Further, to me the BR really isn’t spammable due to it’s relatively slow RoF and it’s kill time in relevance to the rest of the game. If you “spam” your BR and fire 8,9,10, + shots before you kill someone you’re not going to be an effective player at all. Or at least if it is to be considered spam, it is no way effective spam and is only limiting a player.

> The worst spamming weapon of them all? The ZBM6. Watching the montages of players running around using 8 bullets per kill as the roam a map using nothing but the pistol.

Agree absolutely. This is indiscriminate use, and this is not punished due to the very high RoF in general and in regards to human capabilities, lack of recoil/bloom and it’s kill time in relevance to the rest of the game. By human capabilities I mean that no one, or at least very few can aim fast enough to consistently get 4 or even 5 SK’s with the pistol. The relevance to the rest of the game is the biggest factor, as if all the kill times were as quick as a 4SK ZBM6, if you “spammed” and missed, you would lose a battle. Although with kill times that short, “spamming” is very effective, (clearly evident from games like CoD) regardless of it’s relevance to the rest of the killing mechanics. I mean the average accuracy in CoD in like 10%. I am a very accurate player and mine it still only 23 something percent in MW3, and that is quite high when compared to most of the population. And then my, at very minimum, 50% DMR accuracy (although I’d say it’s more like 75%+), you have two very different scenarios.

> Oh yes indeed it is skillful to do so, stay alive I mean.

Well it is rare to even escape battles in games with such quick kill times, so the skill is more in not engaging in 1v1’s in the first place and always being able to see your enemy before they see you. I do not see any noticeable “skill gap” in escaping battles with weapons have <1 second kill times. Do you have skill for escaping rockets? No, you just got lucky or they choked. Or at least that’s the way I see it. Not really relevant to this whole conversation anyway though.

> As for averaging 8 bullets per kill, that is the very reason bloom is used as it is in Reach.

Not necessarily. They could have easily put an RoF cap that is the same speed as bloom. Bloom, according to Bungie ViDoc’s was added to 1. allow for quick kill times up close and longer kill times at range (IDK why this is important but some people find it important) and 2. to introduce a “risk and reward” scenario when you can control how accurate your bullets will be, essentially adding a “new” skill to the gaming (even though it drastically dumbed down many of the old skills that are exponentially higher in skill ceiling, but that is a completely separate argument.

> Yes it may be preferable to some players to have weapons that work like the ZBM6.
> But if player A spams 8 shots with a ZBM6 and player B paces 5 shots with a blooming M6 and they both get the kill in the same time, whose more skilled?
> They both avoided death long enough to impose it, one did it near flawlessly, the other very sloppily.

I think people were just more ecstatic about the fast kill times. I loved the pistol at first but soon saw it’s randomness and ability to be abused I hated it. At this point pretty much the entire MLG community shuns the ZBM6 due it’s inconsistency and spammability. Most, if not all, of the non-MLG “skilled” or “competitive” players seem to agree aswell.

> Before you answer remember this, the CEM6 and H3BR are projectile based weapons, the H2M6 and RM6 are hitscan. The positioning of the reticle is greatly affected by the nature of the weapon’s means of hit-detection.

Could you elaborate on why this is important? Are you referring to the fact that in CE and H3 you had to “lead” your target? Just because a weapon fires a projectile doesn’t mean much if the Bullet travels very fast. Although I think you know that so I am still confused. Also, I know we’ve argued about this in the past but I know you always say the NR is projectile based while the DMR is hitscan, yet there was that BWU that I couldn’t find that said the DMR just fires an infinitely fast projectile, in which case the NR may just fire more slowly.

Regardless, what are the differences of Hit scan vs Projectile in relevance to hit detection?

11

> > Misinformed = Your opinion is different to mine, amirite.
>
> The irony is that after you flame, you then say stay classy.

Let’s keep this flame free. If anyone feels the necessity to continue flame-involved arguments please do so in PM.

Also, FWIW Fatal, Snicker Doodle specifically told Degen he could remake the thread, just that the current one had too much flaming that she felt was out of hand.

In regards to your initial statement, no that is not what is being said. These are literal facts that are attempting to be established. Not what anyone prefers. While the facts are not perfectly tuned, clearly evident by Pharm and Reapers corrections to the OP, they are facts none the less.

Essentially it’s like were saying the earth is not flat, but you say it’s an opinion due to the “fact” not being fully developed; because we aren’t aware that the earth is actually a sphere which, essentially fills in all the holes in the “fact”. Kind of a stretch, but using maturity and empathy to pick up the slack in imperfect communication is the only reason anyone understands anything that someone else believes. I recommend you try a little harder to do such, regardless of whether your opposition is or not. You will be glad you did.

If you wish to continue this discussion please do so in PM, as off topic flame bait does not bid well with Lord Snicker Doodle.(<3)

12

> > > Misinformed = Your opinion is different to mine, amirite.
> >
> > The irony is that after you flame, you then say stay classy.
>
> Let’s keep this flame free. If anyone feels the necessity to continue flame-involved arguments please do so in PM.
>
> Also, FWIW Fatal, Snicker Doodle specifically told Degen he could remake the thread, just that the current one had too much flaming that she felt was out of hand.
>
> In regards to your initial statement, no that is not what is being said. These are literal facts that are attempting to be established. Not what anyone prefers. While the facts are not perfectly tuned, clearly evident by Pharm and Reapers corrections to the OP, they are facts none the less.
>
> Essentially it’s like were saying the earth is not flat, but you say it’s an opinion due to the “fact” not being fully developed; because we aren’t aware that the earth is actually a sphere which, essentially fills in all the holes in the “fact”. Kind of a stretch, but using maturity and empathy to pick up the slack in imperfect communication is the only reason anyone understands anything that someone else believes. I recommend you try a little harder to do such, regardless of whether your opposition is or not. You will be glad you did.
>
> If you wish to continue this discussion please do so in PM, as off topic flame bait does not bid well with Lord Snicker Doodle.(<3)

<3. I promise to behave.
Thanks for keeping it focused as always.

13

Ahem. That’s Lady Snickerdoodle to you, mister. <3

14

> To me firing at the maximum RoF does not imply indiscriminate use of something, if you have consistently high accuracy, itis in no way indiscriminate and IMO is no longer “Spamming”. Further, to me the BR really isn’t spammable due to it’s relatively slow RoF and it’s kill time in relevance to the rest of the game. If you “spam” your BR and fire 8,9,10, + shots before you kill someone you’re not going to be an effective player at all. Or at least if it is to be considered spam, it is no way effective spam and is only limiting a player.

  1. We need our RoF’s clear.
    The BR fires 12 bullets in the same time the DMR fires 5. The BR is 450SPM, the DMR is 188SPM.
    As for kill times, a ZBDMR kills in the same time a H3BR does with all 12 bullets connecting.
    The blooming DMR kills in a time appropriate for its range. That range varies between 85% and 100%.

  2. Exactly why I made sure I pointed out the definition of spamming.
    A DMR fired as fast as possible isn’t spamming by definition, it’s how the player is moving while aiming that DMR that determines if they’re spamming.
    And yes the player spamming the H3BR is very ineffective, that’s why it’s spamming. A skilled player would use less bullets or close the gap and still use less bullets with either BR or DMR.
    The spamming player can always kill a player not defending themselves properly and so skilled players should never be close to being killed by a 8-shot spammer, either game.
    Killing is only part of the game, avoiding death is the other. Being godly at killing doesn’t grant immunity to being killed by stupid or unskilled players.

  3. In BF3 I’m rolling 30% on my marksman rifles and pistols. 20% on my carbines and assault rifles :slight_smile: Just unlocked the M98 and only have 20% on it. Haven’t unlocked anything for it yet though, so it’s in the learning stages.
    Not important, but hey, we’re sharing.

> Not necessarily. They could have easily put an RoF cap that is the same speed as bloom. Bloom, according to Bungie ViDoc’s was added to 1. allow for quick kill times up close and longer kill times at range (IDK why this is important but some people find it important) and 2. to introduce a “risk and reward” scenario when you can control how accurate your bullets will be, essentially adding a “new” skill to the gaming (even though it drastically dumbed down many of the old skills that are exponentially higher in skill ceiling, but that is a completely separate argument.

Remember, slow RoFs like the H3M6 is the alternative. And with RoFs that slow, missing drags out the battle more than pacing.
If you have 2 crappy shooters or 2 godly strafers, the encounter is dragged out due to the RoF being too slow.
In the bloom encounter, either precision is sacrificed to maintain short range accuracy and the encounter is quick. Or players use an entire magazine to get a kill using the random number generator and the match is just as long as though it was a “capped” RoF.

And so this is where things are tricky. All I can say is randomly choose players from the forums and check their stats between Halo3 and Reach.
You should notice that the majority of the population uses more variety than before.
The BR exclusive guys are still DMR(and a few NR) exclusive guys, but do notice how the Pistol IS more used. Do notice the NR IS more used than the Carbine.

And I’ll also point out that that same philosophy on bloom was used for Halo3, hence the 4-shot at less than mid-range and sometimes more than 12-shots at long range.

In light of the above 3 paragraphs, it’s not that bloom is bad, it’s that the separation of 3 ranges was not wanted by Halo players as a whole, but according to population’s use of the sandbox, the overall use of bloom in the sandbox promotes variety.
And that is where some players butt heads with others IMO. Some players want a sandbox that promotes variety, others want little to no variety in the weapons.
Variety leads to randomness, it’s inevitable.
The DMR owns at long range and vehicles, but to offset that, it was made to be less reliable at shorter ranges. Not useless, less reliable.
And that is the complaint no? Non-consistent results on the DMR in ranges were the NR was consistent?
It sucks that the NR wasn’t embraced as the competitive weapon. The 7-shot was a bit much, but the consistency for its intended range makes it the logical choice if the DMR that is meant for maps larger than arena-sized in the first place.

15

  1. I won’t complain that TU gives us an OP DMR useable at all ranges and especially deadly at long range. Or that the NR is deadly in CQB and up to long range, but looses out on long range due to travel time of the needles.
    But personally, the 4-shot M6 is better to fight off the NR and DMR without a buffed AR and PRi to help pick up the slack in CQB and short.
    And not buffing up the AR or PRi and instead removing shield-popping to compensate, not so cool IMO. At least not before they tried it out.

> Could you elaborate on why this is important? Are you referring to the fact that in CE and H3 you had to “lead” your target? Just because a weapon fires a projectile doesn’t mean much if the Bullet travels very fast. Although I think you know that so I am still confused. Also, I know we’ve argued about this in the past but I know you always say the NR is projectile based while the DMR is hitscan, yet there was that BWU that I couldn’t find that said the DMR just fires an infinitely fast projectile, in which case the NR may just fire more slowly.
>
> Regardless, what are the differences of Hit scan vs Projectile in relevance to hit detection?

Yes in CE and H3 you had to lead your target due to the nature of the projectiles requiring time to get to their target AND because they had magnetism associated with them that would cause them to “bend” to their target.

From wiki for ease of reading

> Hitscan weapon is often used colloquially to refer to a projectile weapon which uses unmodified hitscan information to dictate whether or not it has hit its target — deploying the weapon calls the hitscan function, and if an object is detected in the path of the projectile, a hit is registered. Since the effect is immediate, the projectiles effectively travel at infinite speed and have a linear or otherwise simple trajectory — a practical but very crude simulation of a bullet’s speed and accuracy. To improve the realism, programmers may use hitscan functions in slightly different ways - for example, applying a random perturbation to the calculated path to simulate inaccuracy. As another example, the assault rifle in Half-Life 2 calls a hitscan function in the middle of a ‘blazing gun’ animation, creating a small amount of lag between weapon deployment and the hitting of the target to better approximate real-life ballistics.

As said too, I’d have to see the wording myself.
But if you will, the DMR fires a bullet that travels from point A to point B in less than a frame.
The NR fires a needle that takes a few frames to get from point A to point B.
At short ranges, that means almost nothing. At mid-range and farther, it starts to make all the difference between a near hit or a needle to the head.
At least it can make all the difference, target speed is a factor too.
A DMR’s reticle doesn’t have to lead, it can lag behind the enemy, just as long as it’s touching the enemy. The NR, you must lead it, even with a fully rested shot.

note: added like 1 sentence and it went over 7500. So it’s now split into 2 posts.

16

> 1) We need our RoF’s clear.
> The BR fires 12 bullets in the same time the DMR fires 5. The BR is 450SPM, the DMR is 188SPM.
> As for kill times, a ZBDMR kills in the same time a H3BR does with all 12 bullets connecting.
> The blooming DMR kills in a time appropriate for its range. That range varies between 85% and 100%.
>
> 2) Exactly why I made sure I pointed out the definition of spamming.
> A DMR fired as fast as possible isn’t spamming by definition, it’s how the player is moving while aiming that DMR that determines if they’re spamming.
> And yes the player spamming the H3BR is very ineffective, that’s why it’s spamming. A skilled player would use less bullets or close the gap and still use less bullets with either BR or DMR.
> The spamming player can always kill a player not defending themselves properly and so skilled players should never be close to being killed by a 8-shot spammer, either game.
> Killing is only part of the game, avoiding death is the other. Being godly at killing doesn’t grant immunity to being killed by stupid or unskilled players.

this leads to me to believe that the entire “H3 BR spam” is simply just a misunderstanding. In regards to the bloom, I and I’m sure most of the players with similar beliefs about bloom, automatically implied that the problem is the effectiveness of “Spamming” the DMR or pistol. Clearly, this isn’t implied in your definition of spamming and most likely many other users, hence the conflict. So to restate, in the correct terms, (which to my knowledge has never been “realized” prior to this conversation) what everyone has said everyday for a year: It wasn’t until bloom that spamming became an effective use of your weapon in Halo.

(The bolding and size are so that people scanning through my WoT become aware of this extremely important distinction.)

> 3) In BF3 I’m rolling 30% on my marksman rifles and pistols. 20% on my carbines and assault rifles :slight_smile: Just unlocked the M98 and only have 20% on it. Haven’t unlocked anything for it yet though, so it’s in the learning stages.
> Not important, but hey, we’re sharing.

I loved the BF3 campaign but have only played the multiplayer once. I jumped in very confused and just never got around to learning it, so I never played. :confused:

> 4) Remember, slow RoFs like the H3M6 is the alternative. And with RoFs that slow, missing drags out the battle more than pacing.
> If you have 2 crappy shooters or 2 godly strafers, the encounter is dragged out due to the RoF being too slow.
> In the bloom encounter, either precision is sacrificed to maintain short range accuracy and the encounter is quick. Or players use an entire magazine to get a kill using the random number generator and the match is just as long as though there was it was a “capped” RoF.

While this is a great point, the DMR takes the “variable RoF” too far IMO. Also, I would like to ask, if you like approve of this ideology, why is it that you like the NR so much as it essentially only has 2 RoFs? I assume you approve of the 2 RoF Ideology, but not necessarily the multiple RoF Ideology? And again why is it important that battles aren’t dragged out? Outside of sword-lunge range, players will be almost allowing an almost-full-reset on the DMR bloom, and the NR a full-reset, so this “problem” isn’t even really “solved”. Also, IMO being this close is where the most skill of strafing and aiming comes into play. The closer you are (outside of melee range of course), the more effective strafing is, and the more important exceptional aim becomes. I just don’t understand what the backing is for sacrificing this to slightly reduce up close kill times.

> And so this is where things are tricky. All I can say is randomly choose players from the forums and check their stats between Halo3 and Reach.
> You should notice that the majority of the population uses more variety than before.
> The BR exclusive guys are still DMR(and a few NR) exclusive guys, but do notice how the Pistol IS more used. Do notice the NR IS more used than the Carbine.

While I agree very much, I find the reasoning to have little to do with bloom and far more just about the effectiveness and utility of the weapon. The Carbine shot very fast, too fast for at least myself to control (I can’t speak for everyone thought), had a spread even worse than the BR’s and was single shot making it even less likely that your bullet with hit. With perfect aim the carbine may or may not have been about to beat a BR, I never cared enough to find out as I found the RoF too hard to control and the gun with little utility. Also, I loved the H3 pistol, always used it over the AR and felt it was more consistent that the Reach pistol (which I think is due to the RM6 having a larger reticule, I’m not 100% sure that this is true though).

> And I’ll also point out that that same philosophy on bloom was used for Halo3, hence the 4-shot at less than mid-range and sometimes more than 12-shots at long range.

Well at least with the BR the closer you were the more consistent it was, Close to Mid range being where the vast majority of battles occur and where strategies play out. Now don’t get me wrong I had my qualms with the H3 BR Spread (I still don’t see why they didn’t just use a fixed spread and possibly even hit scan so that it was consistent while not allowing players to be effective outside of whatever “intended range” Bungie felt it to have), but I feel the close range consistency to be a better ideology.

Continued in Next post

17

Part 2 post: (don’t even think about editing for “spam”!)

> In light of the above 3 paragraphs, it’s not that bloom is bad, it’s that the separation of 3 ranges was not wanted by Halo players as a whole, but according to population’s use of the sandbox, the overall use of bloom in the sandbox promotes variety.
> And that is where some players butt heads with others IMO. Some players want a sandbox that promotes variety, others want little to no variety in the weapons.
> Variety leads to randomness, it’s inevitable.

I don’t necessarily think bloom is bad, although I haven’t found a way for it to work well with Halo (on precision weapons). Also, while yes some of the population do not want the skill gap to be too limited (obv we need some aim assist and bullet mag) by the mechanics, I think just the fact that Bungie did it backwards with Reach is one of the biggest issues (as opposed to not distinguishing range at all like many of the competitive or MLG players would prefer)

In what way does bloom encourage more sandbox variety? I personally have not seen a change in my sandbox variety when comparing H3 to Reach other than using the NR because it’s more effective (non bloom related), and the pistol because it’s always a secondary in Non-DMR starts (non bloom related). I’m not saying this is wrong, I’m just saying it doesn’t apply to me so I need a little more elaboration.

> The DMR owns at long range and vehicles, but to offset that, it was made to be less reliable at shorter ranges. Not useless, less reliable.
> And that is the complaint no? Non-consistent results on the DMR in ranges were the NR was consistent?
> It sucks that the NR wasn’t embraced as the competitive weapon. The 7-shot was a bit much, but the consistency for its intended range makes it the logical choice if the DMR that is meant for maps larger than arena-sized is removed through settings.

There was a decently large movement in regards to switching to the NR amongst both the “classic” and MLG communities, and I think the primary problem was the 7 shot. If 110% damage didn’t have so many cons, and if the classic playlist didn’t have laggy, grey, and crappy maps I think that might not have failed, as I for one would take Classic over CEA anyday. Even with the settings though I achieved a 50 on Halo charts, so I feel that I did my part in supporting the playlist. If the NR was a 6 shot from the get go or if you could do individual weapon modifiers it may have been a different story. Although it’s still pink which just “isn’t Halo” and even though it’s seemingly stupid, Is a factor to consider.

> 5) I won’t complain that TU gives us an OP DMR useable at all ranges and especially deadly at long range. Or that the NR is deadly in CQB and up to long range, but looses out on long range due to travel time of the needles.
> But personally, the 4-shot M6 is better to fight off the NR and DMR without a buffed AR and PRi to help pick up the slack in CQB and short.
> And not buffing up the AR or PRi and instead removing shield-popping to compensate, not so cool IMO. At least not before they tried it out.

If the NR is your weapon of choice, I can see how 85% bloom would pistol you off as it’s primary intention was to fix the DMR but it arguably broke the NR. I personally do not see a noticeable decrease in the effectiveness of the rest of the sandbox, just a more consistent DMR at all ranges.

I liked the 4 Shot M6 and am saddened that it is once again a 5 SK.

I also feel the AR deserved a buff, although I don’t find it anymore useless than on 100%, as the only time I use it is in non DMR starts (I don’t see why anyone would want to use a close-range weapon when they can use a all-range weapon).

Also it was “tried” out, there was months of testing along with the beta playlist. You also have to take into account that the CEA release date was set in stone and that Reach needed the TU to support it; They only had so much time to refine it. And it wasn’t until weeks to months after the TU that problems like the health pack glitch and the melee bleed through problem were widespread concerns. And they have said that they intend to further refine the TU with the beta playlist.

> 6)
> Yes in CE and H3 you had to lead your target due to the nature of the projectiles requiring time to get to their target AND because they had magnetism associated with them that would cause them to “bend” to their target.
>
> From wiki for ease of reading
>
> Hitscan weapon is often used colloquially to refer to a projectile weapon which uses unmodified hitscan information to dictate whether or not it has hit its target — deploying the weapon calls the hitscan function, and if an object is detected in the path of the projectile, a hit is registered. Since the effect is immediate, the projectiles effectively travel at infinite speed and have a linear or otherwise simple trajectory — a practical but very crude simulation of a bullet’s speed and accuracy. To improve the realism, programmers may use hitscan functions in slightly different ways - for example, applying a random perturbation to the calculated path to simulate inaccuracy. As another example, the assault rifle in Half-Life 2 calls a hitscan function in the middle of a ‘blazing gun’ animation, creating a small amount of lag between weapon deployment and the hitting of the target to better approximate real-life ballistics.
>
> As said too, I’d have to see the wording myself.
> But if you will, the DMR fires a bullet that travels from point A to point B in less than a frame.
> The NR fires a needle that takes a few frames to get from point A to point B.
> At short ranges, that means almost nothing. At mid-range and farther, it starts to make all the difference between a near hit and needle to head.
> At least it can make all the difference, target speed is a factor too.

So are you saying that “hit scan” has better bullet registration that bullet travel weapons? Or the other way around? I thought you were an advocate of bullet travel but I’m not 100% sure. Also are you saying that hit scan causes “undeserved” hits on enemies (or the other way around)? To my knowledge, hitscan has far better registration and “ghost” bullets (although this could be more due to having 3x the amount of bullets for the host to track, IDK) are far less common.

Lastly, I just want to say, whether you’re doing it on purpose or not, a more "Standard’ vocabulary set was noticed in these last few posts. I think it will help in understanding for anyone reading. Oh and you’re awesome, thank you for sharing all your brain thingys with us :3

Oh and have fun trying to fit your response into the character restrictions :stuck_out_tongue:

18

You will have to give me a day or so to reply, I have to be going.

But I will leave by stating, I don’t recall 343i mixing up the TU settings as a means to test things way back in October.
I remember 343i telling us the in-house settings found to be ideal based on the “feedback” of the time and they let it run beside the ZB game-types in the TUB.
There was no 85%bloom only testing. There was only “hey, these are the H2/3 settings, let’s roll.”
That’s my issue that needs a tissue.

19

> Lets not get me lock’d this time okay <3
>
> I was reading a post earlier said something about rapid fire controllers with the BR
>
>
> Please stop saying that.
>
> The BR can not be fired passed its fire rate, due to it have a fixed fire rate.
>
> Clear up some things
>
> Halo 2 BR could technically go over its rate of fire, only by using button combos. but that was not intended by bungie.
> The DMR is the first precision that has controllable rate of fire. Which caused issues with some of the community.
>
> Also Stop saying the TU plays Like halo 3, Because it does not. Halo 3 did not have jet pack, Armor lock, Active camo, sprint, and ridicule bloom
>
> The only thing it has in common with it is Bleed though and thats a STAPLE mechanic of the older halo games.
>
> Edit1: The reach movement has not been sped up. Its the same. The only thing that has changed is the pace of the game due to bloom being changed to 85 bloom. AC and AL nerfs as well.(Thank god)
>
> Edit2: The Classic playlist is separate from the Tu settings found in the other playlist.
>
> Edit3: Bleedthough has been in halo Since halo CE. I have to state this twice because people still think it started in halo 3.
>
> Edit 4: ZB and MLG are separate as well. seeing their settings will never go game wide.
>
> If you are going to debate something against the title update,
>
> Please Make sure you are logically debating this issue instead of spreading misconceptions everywhere. trust me its really hurting the community and it causes everyone to be on different pages on the subject.
>
> Thanks.

The TU was just a small start towards the end. 110% of the people here will whine to 343i for more changes. Eventually, you will see HR as basically a copypasta of H3.

It’s how real life works, it’s how it always worked.

20

> The TU was just a small start towards the end. 110% of the people here will whine to 343i for more changes. Eventually, you will see HR as basically a copypasta of H3.
>
> It’s how real life works, it’s how it always worked.

oh my god. Did any one of you guys, other than Plunder, play CE or H2!? Reach, even after the TU, has more things fundamentally different from H3 than H3 has fundamentally different from CE. Like flat out, hands down. Reach has more fundamental changes different from H3 than CoD 4 has with all the games after it put together. The game is becoming more “Halo” but it is no closer to H3 than it is to H2 or CE.

The level of fundamental “change” looks similar to this:

CE ------- H2
H2 -------------- H3
H3----------------------------------------Reach

WHY U NO UNDASTAND DIS

edit: if this seems like I am mentally challenged please see the “important” section of this post (or read the whole thing) to further understand what I mean.