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> Um, there are various options when the Pistol is included in the calculation… Outside of bugged Hunters, the Pistol isn’t any more powerful than anything else, versatile, but not the only option and especially not always the best option. The point is how you approach dealing with the Covenant in CE is fundamentally different from how approach dealing with the Flood. CE spends the first half of the game teaching you how systematically take down groups of Covenant whether its via melee, headshots, or combinations of weaponry and then it turns the entire game on its head. You no longer have the luxury of picking apart an organized group of enemies, you need to deal with waves of enemies as quickly and efficiently as possible for fear of getting overrun and the fact you are unable to simply punch your way out of that situation is important.
The pistol was just powerful & versatile enough that it would be pretty much part of each loadout, with the covenant, shoot to the head, once for most variations, with the flood, shoot the infection form on the chest, which in reality would be even easier since head moves while chest area is pretty stable in movement center of mass.
But in any case, both went down similarly with similar tactics, shoot the 1 weakpoint when they appear on screen.
Though otherwise the tactics were different, as i mentioned, with the flood the tactics are much more mobile implying the closing in horde aspect.
But as for how it goes for melee, there could be a middle ground between completely inefficient & one hit kill, even if a singular combat form would go down relatively quickly, that locks the player in one-on-one combat which allows other flood to close the distance.
The question then is, how many combat forms would it take to take down the player character in cqc situation? The variable could definitely be about the number of flood in the game, the rest is just balancing ammo situation.
As in, a type of glass-cannon mechanic for flood in cqc, it deals damage but it also takes damage.
With the flood, the usual concept seems to be their numbers instead of individual provess, in the case of going against a SPARTAN at least. For allies are really vulnerable to them aswell.
> > I never said it was the sole cause, but it is an important one. Being able to not only kill but outright destroy combat forms(as well as dispatching 2/3rds of pure forms) in a single standard melee removes part of what makes fighting the Flood interesting(to me at least). The interesting additions like tying combat form revival to infection forms is rendered moot when there are rarely any intact bodies left regardless of the tactics the player uses. Likewise the threat of running out of ammo should be a threat, but honestly running out of Shotgun ammo in CE would be something I had to go out of my way to do. More importantly the only reason it isn’t a problem in Halo 3 despite having far less ammo to go around on average than CE is once again because all the same tactics you use against the Covenant are just as viable now.
Indeed you didn’t which was my misinterpretation of being implementation in “When you make them vulnerable to melee and headshots like they are in Halo 3 they become trivial to deal with” which is part of the original reply since it was the only reason provided for flood becoming trivial.
Though on the flipside, I didn’t claim it would have been unimportant one as partial reason.
And I did also mention the easily destroyable bodies in Halo 3 and mentioned after that about the increased numbers of the flood as a way to lessen the breathing time for the player in which time they commonly use to destroy corpses.
So definitely many factors, including overpowered punches, which I implied with underpowered Tank forms at the end of original reply to your original comment. But yet again, there could be something between 1-hit kill & complete inefficiency.
> > I can’t really agree with whole “rotting carcasses with exposed popcorn heart” given basically everything we know about the Flood, but putting that aside ultimately I would rather see various factions require different approaches than worry about specific lore concerns. Halo is at its best when there are a variety of enemies that don’t allow you to just sit in your comfort zone for the entirety of the experience. Keeping Flood forms from being easily dispatched by standard melee attacks is part of that.
So, the base example (as mentioned in the topic description) is the combat form, I don’t really get how it’s not sometype of impression that could fit the image of a combat form given they are partly distorted corpses of before living beings with exposed infection form controlling the said corpse.
Infection form, AKA, the same type of enemy Chief crushed in his hand in Halo 2 after he took it off the throat of prophet of mercy.
Which led to such expression, clearly a corpse with exposed weakpoint.
And obviously the lore could be stretched a bit in favor of gameplay given modern mechanics cant perfectly recreate lore-friendly gameplay in any case, one of the most notable thing is AI which has traditionally been compensated with HP type adjustments.
But what I would hope from the flood faction is that the while there could be possibility to take down bweaker, basic forms with melee (not 1-hit kill) there would be different variations that could truly take some punches like the Tank form which could be pretty much invulnerable to melee.
And as I mentioned above, glass cannon type could work with the floods horde & ambush tactics, the rest is just mathematics of how many flood slashes player could take, how many combat forms would overpower a player in cqc situation, how many combat forms are in map, how many punches would combat form take, any differing advanced mechanics to it (like unarmed flood using the shooting arm to cover the infection form) and so forth.
A line between completely ineffective & completely overpowered.
Not Halo 2 type, not Halo 3 type, but something better achieved with available mechanics.
With varying available mechanics (resurrection, covering weakpoints…), environmental designs (ambush spots, blind corners…), AI decisions (faking death, general aggression…) & plain simple mathematical designs (ratio between the number of flood, effectiveness of flood, effectiveness of SPARTAN, available ammo…) the flood encounters can be made better while including a melee option, which would include a mathematical risk while rewarding saved ammo for possible later large encounter, it could IMO show the horror of flood as the horde faction while including the individual battle-provess of a SPARTAN.