The flood is still active they are probably somewhere in the galaxy. There are floods still on one of those Halo rings or Shield Worlds across Space.
There are plenty of in-universe devices which could be used to bring them back, sure. I have a feeling whether they do or do not come back has more to do with Microsoft’s business vision for the franchise than it does with finding ways to write them in.
there probably is some specimens in containment inside forerunner structures at least. Kept in locked up like in other encountered installations.
> 2533274890014309;3:
> there probably is some specimens in containment inside forerunner structures at least. Kept in locked up like in other encountered installations.
Yea there are a lot of specimens that the Forunners kept. True dude.
> 2533274890014309;3:
> there probably is some specimens in containment inside forerunner structures at least. Kept in locked up like in other encountered installations.
again?
At this point in the story, the Flood exists in so many places that it doesn’t need anyone to do anything to release it upon the galaxy. If it were the Flood’s intention, it could start consuming worlds and nothing humanity, the Covenant, Banished, or Created could do would stop it. Life exists in the galaxy because the Flood doesn’t actually intend to consume everything, and with the Flood not wanting to consume everything, there really isn’t a reason for the Flood to re-emerge.
(The Flood serve the incorporeal Precursors, manipulating events to bring humanity to the point where they attain the Mantle of Responsibility)
> 2535464649080366;5:
> > 2533274890014309;3:
> > there probably is some specimens in containment inside forerunner structures at least. Kept in locked up like in other encountered installations.
>
> again?
what do you mean “again”? I didnt say the release could happen the same way as before. But its likely there is specimens of flood in the forerunner structures like in the others (installations at least).
> 2533274890014309;7:
> > 2535464649080366;5:
> > > 2533274890014309;3:
> > > there probably is some specimens in containment inside forerunner structures at least. Kept in locked up like in other encountered installations.
> >
> > again?
>
> what do you mean “again”? I didnt say the release could happen the same way as before. But its likely there is specimens of flood in the forerunner structures like in the others (installations at least).
Yeah but that’s the how the flood appeared in the first place. Seemed kind of just lazy to be just like “Whoops! Looks like they escape again, want to help Covenant/Created/Banished/whoever is the enemy to fight the greatest threat in the galaxy?”
Can’t we have some new ideas like “Geeze, Cortana has a massive army that could disable all of our equipment. What should we do? I know, we could let the Flood out. Distract Cortana and waste her army while we regain our forces.” or “All of this, has been planted deep down by the Gravemind during the Covenant war.”
Just do something new other than “Dangerous bio-weapon/hazard escape containment”
> 2535464649080366;8:
> > 2533274890014309;7:
> > > 2535464649080366;5:
> > > > 2533274890014309;3:
> > > > there probably is some specimens in containment inside forerunner structures at least. Kept in locked up like in other encountered installations.
> > >
> > > again?
> >
> > what do you mean “again”? I didnt say the release could happen the same way as before. But its likely there is specimens of flood in the forerunner structures like in the others (installations at least).
>
> Yeah but that’s the how the flood appeared in the first place. Seemed kind of just lazy to be just like “Whoops! Looks like they escape again, want to help Covenant/Created/Banished/whoever is the enemy to fight the greatest threat in the galaxy?”
> Can’t we have some new ideas like “Geeze, Cortana has a massive army that could disable all of our equipment. What should we do? I know, we could let the Flood out. Distract Cortana and waste her army while we regain our forces.” or “All of this, has been planted deep down by the Gravemind during the Covenant war.”
> Just do something new other than “Dangerous bio-weapon/hazard escape containment”
well, its one of the original and one of the most iconic faction in Halo series and no one seems to bother the alien races returning. But its not that much about whether it escapes (the threat of that is very real for its the greatest threat in the galaxy and forerunners still tried to keep it contained in installations? Risky move.) but rather that its still out there like the title suggests. Now, the flood needs only one group or creature to meddle with the forerunner structure and its out again. Much like the storm-covenant emerged after the fall of the covenant. Sure many try to keep containment protocols in mind but its not always enough when they are dealing with the flood that is the very cause that the Halo rings were created in the first place and the life eradicated from the galaxy. Just to keep them from spreading. And no, i dont think anyone in their senses could release the flood to fight the created for its just like trading one threat to greater one. But it doesnt mean it cant escape. It just needs something that is too interested in forerunner structures and doesnt keep its guard up. And do something different? The alien races from the covenant have been in every Halo game and last time we saw the flood was in 2007 which was nearly 10 years ago (new flood levels at least). And id rather fight the flood that is different from the usual alien forces in the game than these robotic, faceless enemies that seem to be just one boring mass that is basically like fighting the covenant but with teleportation so the battle could get longer when they try to escape the inevitable. Now, at least there is potential in flood to make so many enemy types that adapt biologically to the warfare unlike the mass-produced robots.
> 2533274890014309;9:
> > 2535464649080366;8:
> > > 2533274890014309;7:
> > > > 2535464649080366;5:
> > > > > 2533274890014309;3:
> > > > > there probably is some specimens in containment inside forerunner structures at least. Kept in locked up like in other encountered installations.
> > > >
> > > > again?
> > >
> > > what do you mean “again”? I didnt say the release could happen the same way as before. But its likely there is specimens of flood in the forerunner structures like in the others (installations at least).
> >
> > Yeah but that’s the how the flood appeared in the first place. Seemed kind of just lazy to be just like “Whoops! Looks like they escape again, want to help Covenant/Created/Banished/whoever is the enemy to fight the greatest threat in the galaxy?”
> > Can’t we have some new ideas like “Geeze, Cortana has a massive army that could disable all of our equipment. What should we do? I know, we could let the Flood out. Distract Cortana and waste her army while we regain our forces.” or “All of this, has been planted deep down by the Gravemind during the Covenant war.”
> > Just do something new other than “Dangerous bio-weapon/hazard escape containment”
>
> well, its one of the original and one of the most iconic faction in Halo series and no one seems to bother the alien races returning. But its not that much about whether it escapes (the threat of that is very real for its the greatest threat in the galaxy and forerunners still tried to keep it contained in installations? Risky move.) but rather that its still out there like the title suggests. Now, the flood needs only one group or creature to meddle with the forerunner structure and its out again. Much like the storm-covenant emerged after the fall of the covenant. Sure many try to keep containment protocols in mind but its not always enough when they are dealing with the flood that is the very cause that the Halo rings were created in the first place and the life eradicated from the galaxy. Just to keep them from spreading. And no, i dont think anyone in their senses could release the flood to fight the created for its just like trading one threat to greater one. But it doesnt mean it cant escape. It just needs something that is too interested in forerunner structures and doesnt keep its guard up. And do something different? The alien races from the covenant have been in every Halo game and last time we saw the flood was in 2007 which was nearly 10 years ago (new flood levels at least). And id rather fight the flood that is different from the usual alien forces in the game than these robotic, faceless enemies that seem to be just one boring mass that is basically like fighting the covenant but with teleportation so the battle could get longer when they try to escape the inevitable. Now, at least there is potential in flood to make so many enemy types that adapt biologically to the warfare unlike the mass-produced robots.
But the Covenant species exist even if the Covenant doesn’t exist anymore. Flood breaking out from another containment facility is like if the Covenant just so magically reform itself again.
> 2533274883501878;6:
> At this point in the story, the Flood exists in so many places that it doesn’t need anyone to do anything to release it upon the galaxy. If it were the Flood’s intention, it could start consuming worlds and nothing humanity, the Covenant, Banished, or Created could do would stop it. Life exists in the galaxy because the Flood doesn’t actually intend to consume everything, and with the Flood not wanting to consume everything, there really isn’t a reason for the Flood to re-emerge.
>
> (The Flood serve the incorporeal Precursors, manipulating events to bring humanity to the point where they attain the Mantle of Responsibility)
None of this is true. It’s fan theory at best (regarding whether the Flood truly intends to consume the galaxy), but even then most of this post is flat out wrong.
First sentence is not true at all. Without outside help, at worst there could be a major outbreak on a Halo ring if we had another neglectful Monitor like Penitent Tangent. The Flood on that Halo couldn’t escape on their own (as we saw in Halo 2, even a huge outbreak breaking containment would need outside interference to actually escape the ring), which means the Flood would need “anyone to do anything”.
If there was an outbreak, there’s no reason to think the infestation site wouldn’t be glassed from orbit or blown up with nukes, depending who found it. That may or may not solve the problem, but either way there certainly is something humanity, the Covenant, Banished, or Created could do to try and stop it, and probably stand a good chance at succeeding.
The rest is theory and head canon. The “Flood doesn’t intend to consume humanity”, “it’s all to get humans the Mantle”, “it’s all a Precursor test”, etc, ideas all ignore just about everything we’ve ever seen and heard from the Flood itself. There may still be non-Flood Precursors out in the universe somewhere, but we have nothing suggesting to us that they are anywhere near our galaxy, and plenty of evidence to the contrary.
Anyway, Precursor stuff aside, the Flood is by no means capable of reaching a galaxy-wide outbreak on its own right now, regardless if they “really wanted to” or not. There probably aren’t even any Graveminds.
> 2535464649080366;10:
> > 2533274890014309;9:
> > > 2535464649080366;8:
> > > > 2533274890014309;7:
> > > > > 2535464649080366;5:
> > > > > > 2533274890014309;3:
> > > > > > there probably is some specimens in containment inside forerunner structures at least. Kept in locked up like in other encountered installations.
> > > > >
> > > > > again?
> > > >
> > > > what do you mean “again”? I didnt say the release could happen the same way as before. But its likely there is specimens of flood in the forerunner structures like in the others (installations at least).
> > >
> > > Yeah but that’s the how the flood appeared in the first place. Seemed kind of just lazy to be just like “Whoops! Looks like they escape again, want to help Covenant/Created/Banished/whoever is the enemy to fight the greatest threat in the galaxy?”
> > > Can’t we have some new ideas like “Geeze, Cortana has a massive army that could disable all of our equipment. What should we do? I know, we could let the Flood out. Distract Cortana and waste her army while we regain our forces.” or “All of this, has been planted deep down by the Gravemind during the Covenant war.”
> > > Just do something new other than “Dangerous bio-weapon/hazard escape containment”
> >
> > well, its one of the original and one of the most iconic faction in Halo series and no one seems to bother the alien races returning. But its not that much about whether it escapes (the threat of that is very real for its the greatest threat in the galaxy and forerunners still tried to keep it contained in installations? Risky move.) but rather that its still out there like the title suggests. Now, the flood needs only one group or creature to meddle with the forerunner structure and its out again. Much like the storm-covenant emerged after the fall of the covenant. Sure many try to keep containment protocols in mind but its not always enough when they are dealing with the flood that is the very cause that the Halo rings were created in the first place and the life eradicated from the galaxy. Just to keep them from spreading. And no, i dont think anyone in their senses could release the flood to fight the created for its just like trading one threat to greater one. But it doesnt mean it cant escape. It just needs something that is too interested in forerunner structures and doesnt keep its guard up. And do something different? The alien races from the covenant have been in every Halo game and last time we saw the flood was in 2007 which was nearly 10 years ago (new flood levels at least). And id rather fight the flood that is different from the usual alien forces in the game than these robotic, faceless enemies that seem to be just one boring mass that is basically like fighting the covenant but with teleportation so the battle could get longer when they try to escape the inevitable. Now, at least there is potential in flood to make so many enemy types that adapt biologically to the warfare unlike the mass-produced robots.
>
> But the Covenant species exist even if the Covenant doesn’t exist anymore. Flood breaking out from another containment facility is like if the Covenant just so magically reform itself again.
and the flood still likely exist trapped like the flood before and that is what was asked in the topic. And after some relatively peaceful time the covenant did get rebuilt in the form of the storm-covenant. The real covenant troops threw everything they got to defend the ark and the truth for it was the moment of truth (pun kind of intended and meant in both ways) for their religion. And they lost. The covenant was basically destroyed but you really cant destroy an ideology. And the containment break is not the only way for the flood to return. Its not mandatory to be that way. Its a matter of storytelling. It just basically is that the flood as a “species” still likely exist whether or not it returns as a faction in the battlefield.
> 2533274884722193;11:
> > 2533274883501878;6:
> > At this point in the story, the Flood exists in so many places that it doesn’t need anyone to do anything to release it upon the galaxy. If it were the Flood’s intention, it could start consuming worlds and nothing humanity, the Covenant, Banished, or Created could do would stop it. Life exists in the galaxy because the Flood doesn’t actually intend to consume everything, and with the Flood not wanting to consume everything, there really isn’t a reason for the Flood to re-emerge.
> >
> > (The Flood serve the incorporeal Precursors, manipulating events to bring humanity to the point where they attain the Mantle of Responsibility)
>
> None of this is true. It’s fan theory at best (regarding whether the Flood truly intends to consume the galaxy), but even then most of this post is flat out wrong.
>
> First sentence is not true at all. Without outside help, at worst there could be a major outbreak on a Halo ring if we had another neglectful Monitor like Penitent Tangent. The Flood on that Halo couldn’t escape on their own (as we saw in Halo 2, even a huge outbreak breaking containment would need outside interference to actually escape the ring), which means the Flood would need “anyone to do anything”.
>
> If there was an outbreak, there’s no reason to think the infestation site wouldn’t be glassed from orbit or blown up with nukes, depending who found it. That may or may not solve the problem, but either way there certainly is something humanity, the Covenant, Banished, or Created could do to try and stop it, and probably stand a good chance at succeeding.
>
> The rest is theory and head canon. The “Flood doesn’t intend to consume humanity”, “it’s all to get humans the Mantle”, “it’s all a Precursor test”, etc, ideas all ignore just about everything we’ve ever seen and heard from the Flood itself. There may still be non-Flood Precursors out in the universe somewhere, but we have nothing suggesting to us that they are anywhere near our galaxy, and plenty of evidence to the contrary.
>
> Anyway, Precursor stuff aside, the Flood is by no means capable of reaching a galaxy-wide outbreak on its own right now, regardless if they “really wanted to” or not. There probably aren’t even any Graveminds.
I believe you are wrong on all accounts. I have read all of the novels and comics, and played all of the games, and my interpretation of the Flood’s intentions are firmly grounded in the Flood’s ACTIONS. With the abilities and technologies at the Flood’s disposal over the course of the timeline, we are repeatedly confronted with the Flood deliberately holding back, not acting to its full potential. For starters, I recommend you re-reading the Forerunner Saga (assuming you’ve read it already).
What you seem to forget is that there is no immunity to the Flood. (Halo Primordium, pg 364, 367)
That means every time someone isn’t infected, the Flood let them go. This applies to Master Chief, Sergeant Johnson, the Arbiter, and a host of other individuals across the franchise. Specifically, when the Flood stopped attacking ancient humanity, it was the Flood deliberately creating the illusion that humanity had the cure so the Forerunners wouldn’t exterminate humanity utterly. (Halo Silentium, pg36, Halo Primordium pg190).
We’re also told in the novels that the Flood wasn’t using its full power against the Forerunners. Over the course of a few hundred years the Flood only consumed twelve stellar systems, when the Lifeworkers had calculated that the Flood were capable of consuming all life in the galaxy in that amount of time. (Halo Cryptum pg 240, Halo Silentium, pg 36,37)
And what’s more, the Flood were capable of consuming the entire galaxy in spite of the Forerunners best defenses, without even using Neural Physics, which the novels reveal the Flood didn’t use until late in the war. (Halo Silentium, pg 106)
It should also be remembered that the Forerunners devolved humanity (Halo Silentium pg 42) yet humanity hyper-evolved back to their former states, due to reasons the Forerunners couldn’t explain, something for which the only plausible in-universe explanation for would be the direct intervention of the incorporeal Precursors, showing that they still have plans for humanity, even after the emergence of the Flood. (Halo Silentium pg 45-46)
Even the existence of the Halo Array was allowed by the Flood, being as the array took thousands of years to design, which they wouldn’t have had if the Flood had acted in a manner implying they actually intended to consume everything.
There’s so much more I could go into, but suffice to say that when ALL of the information is accounted for, the explanation I’ve presented, that the Flood are serving the Precursors’ original goal, acting as villains to manipulate the galaxy to the desired outcome, is a better explanation than the claim that the Flood’s power is inconsistent and insufficient to accomplish its goals.
> 2533274890014309;12:
> > 2535464649080366;10:
> > > 2533274890014309;9:
> > > > 2535464649080366;8:
> > > > > 2533274890014309;7:
> > > > > > 2535464649080366;5:
> > > > > > > 2533274890014309;3:
> > > > > > > there probably is some specimens in containment inside forerunner structures at least. Kept in locked up like in other encountered installations.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > again?
> > > > >
> > > > > what do you mean “again”? I didnt say the release could happen the same way as before. But its likely there is specimens of flood in the forerunner structures like in the others (installations at least).
> > > >
> > > > Yeah but that’s the how the flood appeared in the first place. Seemed kind of just lazy to be just like “Whoops! Looks like they escape again, want to help Covenant/Created/Banished/whoever is the enemy to fight the greatest threat in the galaxy?”
> > > > Can’t we have some new ideas like “Geeze, Cortana has a massive army that could disable all of our equipment. What should we do? I know, we could let the Flood out. Distract Cortana and waste her army while we regain our forces.” or “All of this, has been planted deep down by the Gravemind during the Covenant war.”
> > > > Just do something new other than “Dangerous bio-weapon/hazard escape containment”
> > >
> > > well, its one of the original and one of the most iconic faction in Halo series and no one seems to bother the alien races returning. But its not that much about whether it escapes (the threat of that is very real for its the greatest threat in the galaxy and forerunners still tried to keep it contained in installations? Risky move.) but rather that its still out there like the title suggests. Now, the flood needs only one group or creature to meddle with the forerunner structure and its out again. Much like the storm-covenant emerged after the fall of the covenant. Sure many try to keep containment protocols in mind but its not always enough when they are dealing with the flood that is the very cause that the Halo rings were created in the first place and the life eradicated from the galaxy. Just to keep them from spreading. And no, i dont think anyone in their senses could release the flood to fight the created for its just like trading one threat to greater one. But it doesnt mean it cant escape. It just needs something that is too interested in forerunner structures and doesnt keep its guard up. And do something different? The alien races from the covenant have been in every Halo game and last time we saw the flood was in 2007 which was nearly 10 years ago (new flood levels at least). And id rather fight the flood that is different from the usual alien forces in the game than these robotic, faceless enemies that seem to be just one boring mass that is basically like fighting the covenant but with teleportation so the battle could get longer when they try to escape the inevitable. Now, at least there is potential in flood to make so many enemy types that adapt biologically to the warfare unlike the mass-produced robots.
> >
> > But the Covenant species exist even if the Covenant doesn’t exist anymore. Flood breaking out from another containment facility is like if the Covenant just so magically reform itself again.
>
> and the flood still likely exist trapped like the flood before and that is what was asked in the topic. And after some relatively peaceful time the covenant did get rebuilt in the form of the storm-covenant. The real covenant troops threw everything they got to defend the ark and the truth for it was the moment of truth (pun kind of intended and meant in both ways) for their religion. And they lost. The covenant was basically destroyed but you really cant destroy an ideology. And the containment break is not the only way for the flood to return. Its not mandatory to be that way. Its a matter of storytelling. It just basically is that the flood as a “species” still likely exist whether or not it returns as a faction in the battlefield.
I have to agree to call the alien alliance in H4 the Covenant is kind of stupid and doesn’t make sense since Jul wanted the Sangheili to be independent of other species. Flood do exist, either from the remaining Halo rings that haven’t been found or other forerunner installations. But bringing them back in the same fashion is not helping. Just because they exist in the universe some place doesn’t mean you could just pop up there and bring them out.
> 2535464649080366;14:
> > 2533274890014309;12:
> > > 2535464649080366;10:
> > > > 2533274890014309;9:
> > > > > 2535464649080366;8:
> > > > > > 2533274890014309;7:
> > > > > > > 2535464649080366;5:
> > > > > > > > 2533274890014309;3:
> > > > > > > > there probably is some specimens in containment inside forerunner structures at least. Kept in locked up like in other encountered installations.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > again?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > what do you mean “again”? I didnt say the release could happen the same way as before. But its likely there is specimens of flood in the forerunner structures like in the others (installations at least).
> > > > >
> > > > > Yeah but that’s the how the flood appeared in the first place. Seemed kind of just lazy to be just like “Whoops! Looks like they escape again, want to help Covenant/Created/Banished/whoever is the enemy to fight the greatest threat in the galaxy?”
> > > > > Can’t we have some new ideas like “Geeze, Cortana has a massive army that could disable all of our equipment. What should we do? I know, we could let the Flood out. Distract Cortana and waste her army while we regain our forces.” or “All of this, has been planted deep down by the Gravemind during the Covenant war.”
> > > > > Just do something new other than “Dangerous bio-weapon/hazard escape containment”
> > > >
> > > > well, its one of the original and one of the most iconic faction in Halo series and no one seems to bother the alien races returning. But its not that much about whether it escapes (the threat of that is very real for its the greatest threat in the galaxy and forerunners still tried to keep it contained in installations? Risky move.) but rather that its still out there like the title suggests. Now, the flood needs only one group or creature to meddle with the forerunner structure and its out again. Much like the storm-covenant emerged after the fall of the covenant. Sure many try to keep containment protocols in mind but its not always enough when they are dealing with the flood that is the very cause that the Halo rings were created in the first place and the life eradicated from the galaxy. Just to keep them from spreading. And no, i dont think anyone in their senses could release the flood to fight the created for its just like trading one threat to greater one. But it doesnt mean it cant escape. It just needs something that is too interested in forerunner structures and doesnt keep its guard up. And do something different? The alien races from the covenant have been in every Halo game and last time we saw the flood was in 2007 which was nearly 10 years ago (new flood levels at least). And id rather fight the flood that is different from the usual alien forces in the game than these robotic, faceless enemies that seem to be just one boring mass that is basically like fighting the covenant but with teleportation so the battle could get longer when they try to escape the inevitable. Now, at least there is potential in flood to make so many enemy types that adapt biologically to the warfare unlike the mass-produced robots.
> > >
> > > But the Covenant species exist even if the Covenant doesn’t exist anymore. Flood breaking out from another containment facility is like if the Covenant just so magically reform itself again.
> >
> > and the flood still likely exist trapped like the flood before and that is what was asked in the topic. And after some relatively peaceful time the covenant did get rebuilt in the form of the storm-covenant. The real covenant troops threw everything they got to defend the ark and the truth for it was the moment of truth (pun kind of intended and meant in both ways) for their religion. And they lost. The covenant was basically destroyed but you really cant destroy an ideology. And the containment break is not the only way for the flood to return. Its not mandatory to be that way. Its a matter of storytelling. It just basically is that the flood as a “species” still likely exist whether or not it returns as a faction in the battlefield.
>
> I have to agree to call the alien alliance in H4 the Covenant is kind of stupid and doesn’t make sense since Jul wanted the Sangheili to be independent of other species. Flood do exist, either from the remaining Halo rings that haven’t been found or other forerunner installations. But bringing them back in the same fashion is not helping. Just because they exist in the universe some place doesn’t mean you could just pop up there and bring them out.
no one really claimed that they need to come back exactly as before and the point was that whether the flood still exists in the galaxy. A point which we seem to agree on. But if the flood returns, it needs to start from somewhere and there isnt too much options for that. At least if its return that makes sense. The return of the flood is just simple statistics. Every forerunner structure searched is a potential start for infection but how about thinking of different ideas of how it could return? Something like scavengers searching installation and returning to their small colony with a unknown passenger which starts to infect the colony rapidly and soon it could went dark and you could be sent there to investigate either as a returning playable elite missions in alien colony or as a spartan in human colony? Its just one of the possible returns but there are many more possibilities but i guess for now we just have to wait.
> 2533274883501878;13:
> > 2533274884722193;11:
> > -snip-
>
> I believe you are wrong on all accounts. I have read all of the novels and comics, and played all of the games, and my interpretation of the Flood’s intentions are firmly grounded in the Flood’s ACTIONS. With the abilities and technologies at the Flood’s disposal over the course of the timeline, we are repeatedly confronted with the Flood deliberately holding back, not acting to its full potential. For starters, I recommend you re-reading the Forerunner Saga (assuming you’ve read it already).
>
> What you seem to forget is that there is no immunity to the Flood. (Halo Primordium, pg 364, 367)
> That means every time someone isn’t infected, the Flood let them go. This applies to Master Chief, Sergeant Johnson, the Arbiter, and a host of other individuals across the franchise. Specifically, when the Flood stopped attacking ancient humanity, it was the Flood deliberately creating the illusion that humanity had the cure so the Forerunners wouldn’t exterminate humanity utterly. (Halo Silentium, pg36, Halo Primordium pg190).
>
> We’re also told in the novels that the Flood wasn’t using its full power against the Forerunners. Over the course of a few hundred years the Flood only consumed twelve stellar systems, when the Lifeworkers had calculated that the Flood were capable of consuming all life in the galaxy in that amount of time. (Halo Cryptum pg 240, Halo Silentium, pg 36,37)
>
> And what’s more, the Flood were capable of consuming the entire galaxy in spite of the Forerunners best defenses, without even using Neural Physics, which the novels reveal the Flood didn’t use until late in the war. (Halo Silentium, pg 106)
>
> It should also be remembered that the Forerunners devolved humanity (Halo Silentium pg 42) yet humanity hyper-evolved back to their former states, due to reasons the Forerunners couldn’t explain, something for which the only plausible in-universe explanation for would be the direct intervention of the incorporeal Precursors, showing that they still have plans for humanity, even after the emergence of the Flood. (Halo Silentium pg 45-46)
>
> Even the existence of the Halo Array was allowed by the Flood, being as the array took thousands of years to design, which they wouldn’t have had if the Flood had acted in a manner implying they actually intended to consume everything.
>
> There’s so much more I could go into, but suffice to say that when ALL of the information is accounted for, the explanation I’ve presented, that the Flood are serving the Precursors’ original goal, acting as villains to manipulate the galaxy to the desired outcome, is a better explanation than the claim that the Flood’s power is inconsistent and insufficient to accomplish its goals.
Thanks for such a well-written reply. The “Flood is a test” theory isn’t totally baseless, to be sure, but I think it comes to the wrong conclusions and stretches things in a few too many places.
There is no immunity to the Flood, but that doesn’t mean that every instance of someone escaping infection is by the intention of the Flood. Master Chief would have been infected if Cortana had not saved him from an Infection form which pierced his armor. There was no reason for the Flood to have spared Johnson while infecting everyone else present. Even at their greatest stage they cannot see the future; there is no way Feral-Stage Flood on Halo intentionally spared Sgt. Johnson because they knew he was important to the fate of humanity.
When it comes to the Flood’s actions in the past, this theory relies heavily on the end of Primordium, where the Primordial says (pg 364):
“Through long study. The decision is final. Humans will replace you. Humans will be tested next.”
“Misery is sweetness. Forerunners will fail as you have failed before. Humans will rise. Whether they will also fail has not been decided.”
But that ignored everything else the Primodrial and the Gravemind tells us, in the Forerunner Saga and in the Halo games respectively. From that same chapter of Primordium, that same conversation with the Didact, said by the Primordial:
“It is the way of those who seek out the truth of the Mantle. Humanity will rise again in arrogance and defiance. The Flood will return when they are ripe-- and bring them unity.”
“We are the Flood. There is no difference. Until all space and time are rolled up and life is crushed in the folds… no end to war, grief, or pain. In a hundred and one thousand centuries… unity again, and wisdom. Until then-- sweetness.”
This isn’t the Flood speaking to Humanity, playing the part of a villain to provoke them to taking their test and fight against them. This is the essence of the Flood overmind taunting a Forerunner by telling him that there is no hope for life in the galaxy, telling him that all will be consumed by the Flood, including, eventually, humanity.
Anything taking place in Bungie’s Halo canon can’t really be used as evidence that the Flood wants humanity to attain the Mantle, because when that story was written humanity and the Forerunners were the same thing. Those characters written by Bungie survived combat with the Flood by luck, skill, and effort, not by fake-out from a Flood with Precursor kid gloves.
There’s no tangible evidence of “incorporeal Precursors” existing. The humans accelerated evolution seems to be a plot necessity if anything, or perhaps something used to further the trope of humanity being resilient, so much so that the quality goes even beyond the expectations of the Forerunners. Saying that it was invisible Precursors is a huge stretch, I think.
It’s not so unimaginable that the Forerunners fought against the Flood long enough to design and build the Halos. Not all planets consumed have warships, not all warships stand a chance against Forerunner fleets. Everything the Flood consumes which isn’t Forerunner is at a disadvantage against them except for overwhelming numbers. Those overwhelming numbers do eventually overwhelm the Forerunners, due in part to the Precursor secrets the Flood eventually unlocks with its Graveminds/Keyminds, but it makes sense that the Forerunners weren’t on their back heel right out of the gate.
The Primordial tells us exactly what the Flood is and what it wants. The Gravemind in the Halo games tells us exactly what the Flood is and what it wants. The actions of the Flood tells us exactly what the Flood is and what it wants, even despite the vaguely reported and continuously mysterious instances in the Forerunner Saga where it had held back for a time. We’re even told that the first time the Flood retreated and spared humanity, it was specifically to wait for them to “ripen” and consume them later.
There’s no “story” reasoning for the Flood to be a fake villain who doesn’t really want to beat the humans. Why would the entire threat of the Halo games be written as something which was never really a threat in the first place? Why negate Bungie’s whole story of overcoming the peril of the Flood, why make the victory against the Flood illegitimate by writing it as “well, the Flood didn’t want to win”?
Why would the Flood “allow” the Halos to exist? The Halos destroy Precursor technology, they nearly destroy the Domain, they destroy humans. Why allow such destruction of their creations and such an unnecessary risk to the very existence of humanity, even if they knew the Forerunners planned to reseed them? Why not just have ancient humanity attain the Mantle?
There are way too many holes in the theory for me to see any truth in it.
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> Thanks for such a well-written reply. The “Flood is a test” theory isn’t totally baseless, to be sure, but I think it comes to the wrong conclusions and stretches things in a few too many places.
The primary difference between our approaches, is that after reading all of the available lore, I’ve come up with a singular explanation which ties all of the loose ends together nicely into a single coherent narrative, whereas you’re content to accept a version of events which doesn’t answer all of the questions.
> There is no immunity to the Flood, but that doesn’t mean that every instance of someone escaping infection is by the intention of the Flood. Master Chief would have been infected if Cortana had not saved him from an Infection form which pierced his armor. There was no reason for the Flood to have spared Johnson while infecting everyone else present. Even at their greatest stage they cannot see the future; there is no way Feral-Stage Flood on Halo intentionally spared Sgt. Johnson because they knew he was important to the fate of humanity.
The Precursors exist outside of time (Cryptum pg156-157) which amounts near enough to omniscience that they would know how important Johnson was. The Flood are a tool of the Precursors, and it is conceivable that the Precursors can control the Flood’s actions, even when it is at the “Feral-Stage”. You should also note that Johnson has Flood DNA in his body, there’s no two ways about it. There is no immunity, and being ba wouldn’t save him from being fully converted. The only possible reason for Johnson not being a Combat Form is a conscious decision being made not to consume him, which would have had to come from the Precursors.
> (your quotations)
In this section, the Flood isn’t just taunting any Forerunner, rather this is the Ur-Didact (whose role is far from over at that point) being manipulated into performing the actions he would commit.
> Anything taking place in Bungie’s Halo canon can’t really be used as evidence that the Flood wants humanity to attain the Mantle, because when that story was written humanity and the Forerunners were the same thing. Those characters written by Bungie survived combat with the Flood by luck, skill, and effort, not by fake-out from a Flood with Precursor kid gloves.
There is no artificial break between Bungie’s original intentions and 343’s vision. Everything is part of the current narrative. As such, every canonical source (including those created by Bungie) is viable evidence.
> There’s no tangible evidence of “incorporeal Precursors” existing. The humans accelerated evolution seems to be a plot necessity if anything, or perhaps something used to further the trope of humanity being resilient, so much so that the quality goes even beyond the expectations of the Forerunners. Saying that it was invisible Precursors is a huge stretch, I think.
The truth is that nearly everything we know about the Precursors is given through the filter of the Forerunners’ understanding of them, which we know to be incomplete. However, we as the reader do get bits of information that the Forerunners aren’t privy to, such as Halo Cryptum’s depiction of a Precursor’s mind,
“It seemed to contain a great deal of knowledge, none of it any use. It was knowledge that belonged to others from very far away, other existences where life and death were meaningless, light and darkness twisted together, where the twin fists of time uncurled their fingers and joined in a clasp, so that nothing changed or ever would.”
I believe this strongly suggests that the Precursors are eternal entities existing outside of both space and time, and that the mortal forms they’ve created are avatars. No information in canon that I’ve found contradicts this interpretation.
> It’s not so unimaginable that the Forerunners fought against the Flood long enough to design and build the Halos. Not all planets consumed have warships, not all warships stand a chance against Forerunner fleets. Everything the Flood consumes which isn’t Forerunner is at a disadvantage against them except for overwhelming numbers. Those overwhelming numbers do eventually overwhelm the Forerunners, due in part to the Precursor secrets the Flood eventually unlocks with its Graveminds/Keyminds, but it makes sense that the Forerunners weren’t on their back heel right out of the gate.
I gave you the reference for the Forerunners knowing that the Flood could have consumed everything in the first few hundred years. Given that the Halos’ design process took three thousand years (Halo Cryptum pg 248), there is literally no possible way the Forerunners could have held off the Flood long enough to design the Halos. The only reason the Halos were completed at all was because the Flood retreated and let them be constructed.
> The Primordial tells us exactly what the Flood is and what it wants. The Gravemind in the Halo games tells us exactly what the Flood is and what it wants. The actions of the Flood tells us exactly what the Flood is and what it wants, even despite the vaguely reported and continuously mysterious instances in the Forerunner Saga where it had held back for a time. We’re even told that the first time the Flood retreated and spared humanity, it was specifically to wait for them to “ripen” and consume them later.
The Flood’s actions are repeatedly below its potential, and it has allowed itself to be slaughtered on multiple occasions to give life a chance to return to the galaxy. I hold that the Flood’s actions, including its threat to consume humanity at a later date all serves the purpose of securing its role as villain to make sure events unfold as the Precursors intended them to. This relates to my other points I’ve presented above.
> There’s no “story” reasoning for the Flood to be a fake villain who doesn’t really want to beat the humans. Why would the entire threat of the Halo games be written as something which was never really a threat in the first place? Why negate Bungie’s whole story of overcoming the peril of the Flood, why make the victory against the Flood illegitimate by writing it as “well, the Flood didn’t want to win”?
The Flood’s not a “fake” threat. The Precursors aren’t making humanity succeed, rather they’re only making sure humanity has a chance. If humanity fails, the threat of extinction is very real.
> Why would the Flood “allow” the Halos to exist? The Halos destroy Precursor technology, they nearly destroy the Domain, they destroy humans. Why allow such destruction of their creations and such an unnecessary risk to the very existence of humanity, even if they knew the Forerunners planned to reseed them? Why not just have ancient humanity attain the Mantle?
As I said before, the Precursors’ existence outside of time gives them the perspective of what will happen, so they can have certainty that the variables will ultimately culminate in their plans’ success, because from their timeless perspective, it has already happened. For the Precursors, there is no risk, and every loss is calculated.
> There are way too many holes in the theory for me to see any truth in it.
I don’t believe this explanation has any plot holes, and the only ones you’re perceiving are the result of you rejecting parts of my premise which are necessary to understand the other parts.
I’ll focus on a few points in particular first, since I see them as being a bit more important (and to keep the post shorter):
> “There is no artificial break between Bungie’s original intentions and 343’s vision. Everything is part of the current narrative. As such, every canonical source (including those created by Bungie) is viable evidence.”
There is a break in this context. Johnson was not written as surviving because of a Flood-Precursor plan. Nor were any other Halo game characters. I’m not saying that there’s a necessary gulf between Bungie and 343’s stories (for example, 343’s separation of Forerunners and “ancient” humanity can and does work with Bungie’s story), but I am saying that when it comes to this story element, it doesn’t work to say that the Flood wasn’t trying to infect “key” story characters. It doesn’t work to say, “Well, these characters were able to survive therefore the Flood didn’t really want to infect them.” What about Keyes? He wasn’t important enough to humanity?
The “incorporeal Precursors” have such a fine-tune hand on all minuscule events taking place in the Halo universe that they know who and what is necessary to humanity attaining the mantle and surviving and who and what isn’t? That infection form knew that Cortana was there, and that she was going to zap it? An incorporeal, invisible Precursor told it to go ahead and jump at his neck, knowing it would fail? Making everything that happened in Bungie’s story conform to Precursor intervention requires this kind of deus-ex-machina over tiny minutia.
There are way too many coincidences and twists of fate to say the Precursors have a hand in it without saying that the Precursors are omnipotent literal Gods who are pulling every string in the universe. If that’s the case, then nothing matters; it’s all just the Precursor’s Plan going without a hitch and we’re just watching it unfold.
> “The Flood’s not a “fake” threat. The Precursors aren’t making humanity succeed, rather they’re only making sure humanity has a chance. If humanity fails, the threat of extinction is very real.”
What exactly is this supposed Precursor-Flood test? If the Flood is the test for humanity, then why retreat from them when the Forerunners entered the picture? If the Flood wanted to destroy the Forerunners before testing humanity (why would they want to wait like that?) why not simply destroy the Forerunners? Why all this holding back against the Forerunners as well, not going at them with full potential, letting them build Halos (and a thousand other plans which tried and failed) and letting the Forerunners destroy the galaxy and all the Precursor artifacts within it? Why not just wipe out the Forerunners, then turn on the humans to test them there?
What about the Flood’s actions in the Halo games gives any evidence that it’s a “test”, and what are they testing for? You say there’s a possibility of failure, but you also say that the Flood is purposefully letting the big players go free so that they maybe win in the end, because the Precursors knew they would be key to humanity winning in the end. If this was a test with a possibility of failure, why didn’t they simply fail? Why didn’t they infect Chief, and Thel, and Johnson, and say, “Well, I guess humanity just isn’t Mantle material, since we just consumed the heroes we know were necessary for their victory.” If the Precursors know everything that’s going to happen, and have such total control over all events in the galaxy, why test at all? They should know whether or not humanity is worthy and simply give them the Mantle, or know they are not and wipe them out.
Why does this “test” involve humanity winning only by Precursor divined predestination (since they know who specifically to let live, can shape the galaxy so that they do live, and then let them win), but they have strict guidelines on how much they’re allowed to win by and how many humans are allowed to be consumed by Flood and annihilated by Halos in the mean time? What about the Covenant? Why didn’t the Precursors step in to stop the Covenant from nearly wiping out humanity? The Precursors didn’t bring humans to Halo, unless they were literally invisibly controlling Cortana and whispering to her how to bring the Autumn there at that moment.
> As I said before, the Precursors’ existence outside of time gives them the perspective of what will happen, so they can have certainty that the variables will ultimately culminate in their plans’ success, because from their timeless perspective, it has already happened. For the Precursors, there is no risk, and every loss is calculated.
So you’re saying that the Precursors knew and planned ahead of time:
They would create the Forerunners and Humans, and eventually “test” both for the Mantle
They tested Forerunners first, knowing they would fail, and knowing the Forerunners would attempt to kill all Precursors
They would allow the Forerunners to kill their physical bodies, but they would put some bodies in stasis and turn some into dust
They knew this dust would turn into Flood and knew it would be happened upon by humans
They set this Flood up intentionally ahead of time to test humans, and let it attack the humans until the Forerunners showed up
They would let the Forerunners live, and let them nearly wipe out the humans, and devolve them
They would bring back the Flood, and attack the Forerunners but not use full strength against the Forerunners
They would eventually destroy the Forerunners once they built the Halos, so that the Halos would be fired and destroy humanity
They would let the remaining Forerunners on the Ark survive(?)
They would have the Flood sit and wait in Forerunner installations until humanity re-evolved after being reseeded
They would do nothing while the Covenant nearly wiped out humanity, since they knew Cortana would find Halo and release the Flood
They would let the Flood kill most of these new humans they came across, but not all humans
They would let the Flood kill most Covenant, but not all Covenant so that some Covenant could help humanity against the Flood
They would let the Covenant continue to war against humanity
They would let humanity reach the Ark and fire the new Halo, wiping out their Gravemind
And that bring us up to present times. How does any of this make sense? How does any of this look like a coherent plan? What exactly is being accomplished by the Precursors here? I don’t see a “test” for humanity here, or Precursors having any sort of guiding influence where it can’t be called luck or effort on the part of those actually directly involved. Is all of this just leading up to the actual test (again, what is the test?), where the Precursors-Flood will finally after all these eons take humanity seriously and stop “holding back”? Literally all of the history of the Forerunners and humanity was pre-planned by the Precursors for this test, which they continue to go light on by sparing the individuals needed by humanity to win, so that humanity has a “chance” to win, even though they shouldn’t have a chance to win if the Flood was “really trying”?
You’re saying that every single event in the entire Halo mythos has just been the Precursors saying, “Yep, planned that. Yep, let that happen. Yep, all of galactic history just for humanity to fight the Flood except we’ll let them fake-win against the Flood repeatedly by holding back.”
What is humanity’s “test”, and why are the Precursors intentionally putting it off with fake-outs and holding back?
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> I’ll focus on a few points in particular first, since I see them as being a bit more important (and to keep the post shorter):
I’ll try to respond in kind, to keep the length down.
The entire Halo Franchise falls under the umbrella of 343 Industries, and they have total creative control over it. They are perfectly in their right to introduce story elements which re-define circumstances which relate to events in previous games (including those made by Bungie). The acknowledgement of the full extent of 343 Industries’ authority with the Halo franchise is just as important as any other information I might bring up.
The big misconception which seems to color your appraisal of my explanation is that you think the Precursors’ test is a test of strength. That is not the case.
The Precursors’ test is a test of character. That is a vital distinction to make.
The Forerunners first failed test was probably their practice of subjugating other races, taking the greatest technologies for themselves and not allowing the other races to develop to their potential. This resulted in them being passed over and denied the right to hold the Mantle of Responsibility. The Forerunners failed again when they decided to respond with aggression to that decision. The Forerunners failed one last time when they created the Halos and reserved the larger haven (the Greater Ark) for their species alone, and resigned every single other species they were trying to save to the smaller (Lesser Ark).
Humanity passed a test of worthiness when after unwittingly releasing the Flood upon the galaxy, they self-sacrificially gave up a third of their entire population in an attempt to save the rest of the galaxy from the Flood.
Note that neither the passing, nor the failing of any of these tests had anything to do with being strong enough to fight the Flood. The Precursors’ precautions were just to ensure that their test subjects lived long enough to have their character tested.
I think many of your “why” questions are best answered by comparing the story of the Halo Universe to a D&D game. In this comparison, the Precursors are the DM, the Flood are the monsters the DM fields to challenge the party, and the party of Player Characters are the various races of the galaxy. Many of the decisions made by the DM are for the purpose of telling the story he wants to tell, bringing events to the desired end-game. Now that could mean railroading the party, predetermining their every action, but more likely, certain key cornerstone moments will be made to play out, but most of the details will be freely determined by the party’s choices. Over the course of the game the DM may kill off player-characters, and great hardships may be faced, but it is all part of the greater narrative.
Relating to your question regarding the Flood holding back against the Forerunners, allow me to again compare this to a D&D game. If the party is fighting a dragon, and the dragon burned half of the city, and killed your greatest heroes, it isn’t going to suddenly flee from the remaining survivors. That simply wouldn’t make sense, even if the DM specifically doesn’t want a total party wipe. The Flood needs an out for its departure the same way. So the Flood deliberately allowed the Halos to be designed and built so they could fulfill that purpose (like the DM not sending in the dragon in a D&D game until the city defenses are completed)
Now regarding Sergeant Johnson. The facts are that the Flood Infection Form stuck its tendrils into Sergeant Avery Johnson, it did not turn him into a Flood Combat Form, and that there is no immunity to the Flood, that the Flood chooses to infect or not infect. So the question we’re facing is why wasn’t Sergeant Johnson turned into a Combat Form? The obvious answer is that a decision was made to not infect Johnson, which in the absence of a Gravemind, I would say came from a Precursor. Regarding Captain Keyes, the Flood wasn’t given omniscience by the Precursors, which means the Flood has to gather information by consuming people, and a captain of Keyes’ caliber is a mighty prize, explaining why he was consumed. He was valuable, but not essential to humanity’s survival.
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> > > > > > > > > there probably is some specimens in containment inside forerunner structures at least. Kept in locked up like in other encountered installations.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > again?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > what do you mean “again”? I didnt say the release could happen the same way as before. But its likely there is specimens of flood in the forerunner structures like in the others (installations at least).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yeah but that’s the how the flood appeared in the first place. Seemed kind of just lazy to be just like “Whoops! Looks like they escape again, want to help Covenant/Created/Banished/whoever is the enemy to fight the greatest threat in the galaxy?”
> > > > > > Can’t we have some new ideas like “Geeze, Cortana has a massive army that could disable all of our equipment. What should we do? I know, we could let the Flood out. Distract Cortana and waste her army while we regain our forces.” or “All of this, has been planted deep down by the Gravemind during the Covenant war.”
> > > > > > Just do something new other than “Dangerous bio-weapon/hazard escape containment”
> > > > >
> > > > > well, its one of the original and one of the most iconic faction in Halo series and no one seems to bother the alien races returning. But its not that much about whether it escapes (the threat of that is very real for its the greatest threat in the galaxy and forerunners still tried to keep it contained in installations? Risky move.) but rather that its still out there like the title suggests. Now, the flood needs only one group or creature to meddle with the forerunner structure and its out again. Much like the storm-covenant emerged after the fall of the covenant. Sure many try to keep containment protocols in mind but its not always enough when they are dealing with the flood that is the very cause that the Halo rings were created in the first place and the life eradicated from the galaxy. Just to keep them from spreading. And no, i dont think anyone in their senses could release the flood to fight the created for its just like trading one threat to greater one. But it doesnt mean it cant escape. It just needs something that is too interested in forerunner structures and doesnt keep its guard up. And do something different? The alien races from the covenant have been in every Halo game and last time we saw the flood was in 2007 which was nearly 10 years ago (new flood levels at least). And id rather fight the flood that is different from the usual alien forces in the game than these robotic, faceless enemies that seem to be just one boring mass that is basically like fighting the covenant but with teleportation so the battle could get longer when they try to escape the inevitable. Now, at least there is potential in flood to make so many enemy types that adapt biologically to the warfare unlike the mass-produced robots.
> > > >
> > > > But the Covenant species exist even if the Covenant doesn’t exist anymore. Flood breaking out from another containment facility is like if the Covenant just so magically reform itself again.
> > >
> > > and the flood still likely exist trapped like the flood before and that is what was asked in the topic. And after some relatively peaceful time the covenant did get rebuilt in the form of the storm-covenant. The real covenant troops threw everything they got to defend the ark and the truth for it was the moment of truth (pun kind of intended and meant in both ways) for their religion. And they lost. The covenant was basically destroyed but you really cant destroy an ideology. And the containment break is not the only way for the flood to return. Its not mandatory to be that way. Its a matter of storytelling. It just basically is that the flood as a “species” still likely exist whether or not it returns as a faction in the battlefield.
> >
> > I have to agree to call the alien alliance in H4 the Covenant is kind of stupid and doesn’t make sense since Jul wanted the Sangheili to be independent of other species. Flood do exist, either from the remaining Halo rings that haven’t been found or other forerunner installations. But bringing them back in the same fashion is not helping. Just because they exist in the universe some place doesn’t mean you could just pop up there and bring them out.
>
> no one really claimed that they need to come back exactly as before and the point was that whether the flood still exists in the galaxy. A point which we seem to agree on. But if the flood returns, it needs to start from somewhere and there isnt too much options for that. At least if its return that makes sense. The return of the flood is just simple statistics. Every forerunner structure searched is a potential start for infection but how about thinking of different ideas of how it could return? Something like scavengers searching installation and returning to their small colony with a unknown passenger which starts to infect the colony rapidly and soon it could went dark and you could be sent there to investigate either as a returning playable elite missions in alien colony or as a spartan in human colony? Its just one of the possible returns but there are many more possibilities but i guess for now we just have to wait.
That I can agree on