Flip the script on guns.

Games Halo 5: Guardians
1

Why was the scoped SMG removed, it was a good gun. Less power than the AR but made it up with its range. Scoped Automatics aren’t a bad idea neither is having a powerful weapon with headshot capabilities without one. It kind of gets annoying how many players are forced into using Precision weapons just for the sake the game being on fair terms.

I love a good, bone rattling automatic rifle but Halo has none. Some might think the AR is sufficient but if you put the best AR gunner against the best BR Rifleman than the AR gunner is almost guaranteed defeat by the majority of Halo Fans.

The best way to level this out is make the ranged weapons weaker while scoped or give the automatics extra damage when getting a center mass shots. That IMO would definitely balance the weapons out.

You could argue weapon niche but which can be used in all 3 moderately and rules another. Which bombs at far distances, gives false hope in a mid and has a 51% chance up close. I wouldn’t really say 51% because if the player gets that melee in…PING and you’re dead.

Precision weapons need to be weaker or automatics need to be like the SAW. I use the Carbine for 3 reasons.

  1. Covenant Weapons are unique in design and it sort of defeats the purpose of playing an alien game without a bit of strange.

  2. Its low damage but high ROT gives automatic users a bit more of a chance an since it doesn’t exactly rule on range its perfect for me.

  3. It has the feel of an automatic. IMO

  4. It has its own Religion.

I several of my friends feel the same way as well. We are all skilled Halo players who have sort of been forced into this area of skill Just Because. I’m also more than sure that i’m not the only one who feels this way on the forum. I’ve voiced out many of my friends options and a few of mine.

Its like with the DMR again just the people asking for change just can’t shout loud enough and are stamped out by the other roars of change. One isn’t more skillful, each just requires a lined up shot and if anything the automatic player who can kill any precision player is the most skilled. I’m a badass but not the Ultimate Gamer. I can beat Riflemen with my Autos but its just easier to use precision and it does less damage to my team while i wait for the shields to recharge instead of jumping back into the game.

Alot of people beg for people for change that doesn’t need to happen. This does, and it can. No more of this among the weapons in Halo. People want equal, lets figure this out.

Either get rid of Automatics or buff them. 343, not doing one of these is just wasting the little time you have. Descope helps but as Halo 3,Reach,2 and CE have showed. It doesn’t help much.

2

some people see here would be like “it’s too Call of Duty if anything other than the BR/BMR is even semi-decent, Halo is a precision weapon only arena shooter…yarg, yarg, gerbal”
I would really prefer if HALO X1 has more than two useable weapons and actually makes some validly useful and different guns.
I really won’t want to play much Multiplayer if it’s nothing but BR/DMR matchmaking match number 99 trillion.
Haven’t we all been through the DMR/BR matches 98 trillion times already.

3

If you are going to say that this is like CoD don’t click Spoiler!

I propose maybe an exchange in properties for weapons:

  1. Scope Attachment(I told you not to click!)
    This should Sacrifice a bit of its damage for range.
    10-15% decrease in power
    Scope= 2x range when scoped in
    Accuracy:10% increase unscoped
    Can Headshot
    Affected by only Flinch

  2. Power Upgrade Attachment(no-name I could think of)
    This on the other hand grants more power in exchange for the following:
    Recoil^ by 10%
    Range Decrease by 5%-15%
    Damage Increase 10%
    RoF Increase: 5%
    Accuracy Decrease: 5-10%
    Cannot Headshot

This leaves the user extremely hard to take down close quarters but easy to pick off from a long range.

  1. Grip
    Should give an increase of stability for recoil and flinch(assuming it comes back). However it should lose

Recoil Decrease: 10-15%
Damage Decrease: 5%
Ammo Decrease: 10%
Flinch Decrease: 5%

Overall this gives players a choice. The Normal Weapons Properties can still be chosen, however without these benefits.

If you don’t like this suggestion then I have different suggestions.

Buff Automatics:
Whether it is in Power, Range, Spread, it needs a buff to contend with other weapons.

All Weapons have Scopes:
Not the best idea but it gives players the abilities to headshot and have farther range, however not as much as precision weapons.

Remove from Loadouts and make power weapons:
Still not best idea

Forced Automatics start:
Like past Halos, although I doubt you wanted this!

Gametype Specific Loadouts:
Smaller Gametypes or ones that work well with close range should force players to work with only Automatics.
Larger Gametypes or ones that dominate long-range should have forced precision weapons.

Preset Loadouts:
Like Reach, but once again, not the best idea.

Map Specific Loadouts:
Maps have a rating of Big, Medium and Small. Small has forced Autos, Medium has both, and Big has forced Precisions.

4

> some people see here would be like “it’s too Call of Duty if anything other than the BR/BMR is even semi-decent, Halo is a precision weapon only arena shooter…yarg, yarg, gerbal”
> I would really prefer if HALO X1 has more than two useable weapons and actually makes some validly useful and different guns.
> I really won’t want to play much Multiplayer if it’s nothing but BR/DMR matchmaking match number 99 trillion.
> Haven’t we all been through the DMR/BR matches 98 trillion times already.

Agreed 100% and yes we have had too many DMR/BR matches.

5

> > some people see here would be like “it’s too Call of Duty if anything other than the BR/BMR is even semi-decent, Halo is a precision weapon only arena shooter…yarg, yarg, gerbal”
> > I would really prefer if HALO X1 has more than two useable weapons and actually makes some validly useful and different guns.
> > I really won’t want to play much Multiplayer if it’s nothing but BR/DMR matchmaking match number 99 trillion.
> > Haven’t we all been through the DMR/BR matches 98 trillion times already.
>
> Agreed 100% and yes we have had too many DMR/BR matches.

But the able Carbine users can beat all(and Automatic users depending on the map and sightline. :slight_smile:

6

> If you are going to say that this is like CoD don’t click Spoiler!
>
>
>
>
> I propose maybe an exchange in properties for weapons:
>
> 1. Scope Attachment(I told you not to click!)
> This should Sacrifice a bit of its damage for range.
> 10-15% decrease in power
> Scope= 2x range when scoped in
> Accuracy:10% increase unscoped
> Can Headshot
> Affected by only Flinch
>
> 2. Power Upgrade Attachment(no-name I could think of)
> This on the other hand grants more power in exchange for the following:
> Recoil^ by 10%
> Range Decrease by 5%-15%
> Damage Increase 10%
> RoF Increase: 5%
> Accuracy Decrease: 5-10%
> Cannot Headshot
>
> This leaves the user extremely hard to take down close quarters but easy to pick off from a long range.
>
>
> 3. Grip
> Should give an increase of stability for recoil and flinch(assuming it comes back). However it should lose
>
> Recoil Decrease: 10-15%
> Damage Decrease: 5%
> Ammo Decrease: 10%
> Flinch Decrease: 5%
>
> Overall this gives players a choice. The Normal Weapons Properties can still be chosen, however without these benefits.
>
>
>
> If you don’t like this suggestion then I have different suggestions.
>
> Buff Automatics:
> Whether it is in Power, Range, Spread, it needs a buff to contend with other weapons.
>
> All Weapons have Scopes:
> Not the best idea but it gives players the abilities to headshot and have farther range, however not as much as precision weapons.
>
> Remove from Loadouts and make power weapons:
> Still not best idea
>
> Forced Automatics start:
> Like past Halos, although I doubt you wanted this!
>
> Gametype Specific Loadouts:
> Smaller Gametypes or ones that work well with close range should force players to work with only Automatics.
> Larger Gametypes or ones that dominate long-range should have forced precision weapons.
>
> Preset Loadouts:
> Like Reach, but once again, not the best idea.
>
> Map Specific Loadouts:
> Maps have a rating of Big, Medium and Small. Small has forced Autos, Medium has both, and Big has forced Precisions.

What you have posed was going to be my OP, but i decided to take the more This or That approach over something i knew alot of people would hate on just because it hassome features of COD even thought they were in games before COD.

7

> > > some people see here would be like “it’s too Call of Duty if anything other than the BR/BMR is even semi-decent, Halo is a precision weapon only arena shooter…yarg, yarg, gerbal”
> > > I would really prefer if HALO X1 has more than two useable weapons and actually makes some validly useful and different guns.
> > > I really won’t want to play much Multiplayer if it’s nothing but BR/DMR matchmaking match number 99 trillion.
> > > Haven’t we all been through the DMR/BR matches 98 trillion times already.
> >
> > Agreed 100% and yes we have had too many DMR/BR matches.
>
> But the able Carbine users can beat all(and Automatic users depending on the map and sightline. :slight_smile:

Cracking jokes, good we will need morale. But I’ve never been in a MP game where it was exclusive to only carbines and I’ve played Halo since CE. Either way all the precision weapons would be lowered in terms of availability or damage.

8

> > some people see here would be like “it’s too Call of Duty if anything other than the BR/BMR is even semi-decent, Halo is a precision weapon only arena shooter…yarg, yarg, gerbal”
> > I would really prefer if HALO X1 has more than two useable weapons and actually makes some validly useful and different guns.
> > I really won’t want to play much Multiplayer if it’s nothing but BR/DMR matchmaking match number 99 trillion.
> > Haven’t we all been through the DMR/BR matches 98 trillion times already.
>
> Agreed 100% and yes we have had too many DMR/BR matches.

I haven’t had enough.

9

I don’t really understand why we have the Battle Rifle.

We could simply make the Assault Rifle accurate when fired in three-round bursts, give it some sort of headshot modifier, and give it a scope if necessary. It would function the same way as the Battle Rifle, along with having automatic capabilities.

Battle Rifle fans would be content, and Assault Rifle fans would be content.

Having tons of weapons that only fill one function is inferior to having a few weapons that fill many functions.

TLDR what we need to do is focus on ways to combine weaponry, remove redundancies, and add depth to existing weaponry.

10

> I don’t really understand why we have the Battle Rifle.
>
> We could simply make the Assault Rifle accurate when fired in three-round bursts, give it some sort of headshot modifier, and give it a scope if necessary. It would function the same way as the Battle Rifle, along with having automatic capabilities.
>
> Battle Rifle fans would be content, and Assault Rifle fans would be content.
>
> Having tons of weapons that only fill one function is inferior to having a few weapons that fill many functions.
>
> TLDR what we need to do is focus on ways to combine weaponry, remove redundancies, and add depth to existing weaponry.

It never was about having certain weapon with certain capabilities. People want more weapons to choose from so they can pick a weapon which works for them based on skill level.

In reality there is only 1 perfect playing style and everyone is trying to get there. In higher level gameplay people play extremely similar and the slightest mistake makes you lose.

11

> It never was about having certain weapon with certain capabilities. People want more weapons to choose from so they can pick a weapon which works for them based on skill level.

And having a weapon that fills two roles satisfies both newbs and experienced players. Having viable and skillful automatics isn’t an issue for Quake, isn’t an issue for Battlefield, isn’t an issue for Counter Strike. I don’t see why Halo is struggling with it.

> In reality there is only 1 perfect playing style and everyone is trying to get there. In higher level gameplay people play extremely similar and the slightest mistake makes you lose.

There’s only “one perfect playing style” because Halo has had mediocre sandbox design since Halo CE. Automatics have never stood a chance against precision weapons because they’ve never been balanced to do so.

Meanwhile games like TF2 have tons of classes and sub-classes playing entirely differently from one another, in a balanced and competitive manner.

12

> > It never was about having certain weapon with certain capabilities. People want more weapons to choose from so they can pick a weapon which works for them based on skill level.
>
> And having a weapon that fills two roles satisfies both newbs and experienced players. Having viable and skillful automatics isn’t an issue for Quake, isn’t an issue for Battlefield, isn’t an issue for Counter Strike. I don’t see why Halo is struggling with it.
>
>
>
> > In reality there is only 1 perfect playing style and everyone is trying to get there. In higher level gameplay people play extremely similar and the slightest mistake makes you lose.
>
> There’s only “one perfect playing style” because Halo has had mediocre sandbox design since Halo CE. Automatics have never stood a chance against precision weapons because they’ve never been balanced to do so.
>
> Meanwhile games like TF2 have tons of classes and sub-classes playing differently from one another.

Can you make a skillful automatic that satisfies the beginners? No. Because it’s too hard.

Can you make a noobfriendly precision weapon that satisfies the hardcore? As they would want some reward for their effort I would say no.

The reason TF2 plays differently than Halo is because it is a class-based shooter, with no weapons on the map. In TF2 you have 1 perfect playstyle for each person. There is also a different skill-set to each person, meaning one guy is easier to use than another, filling everyones needs.

Having both the AR and BR fills everyones needs in Halo.

While I don’t have a perfect play style (nobody does): I believe that using the AR in close combat is included in the perfect playstyle.

13

> > > It never was about having certain weapon with certain capabilities. People want more weapons to choose from so they can pick a weapon which works for them based on skill level.
> >
> > And having a weapon that fills two roles satisfies both newbs and experienced players. Having viable and skillful automatics isn’t an issue for Quake, isn’t an issue for Battlefield, isn’t an issue for Counter Strike. I don’t see why Halo is struggling with it.
> >
> >
> >
> > > In reality there is only 1 perfect playing style and everyone is trying to get there. In higher level gameplay people play extremely similar and the slightest mistake makes you lose.
> >
> > There’s only “one perfect playing style” because Halo has had mediocre sandbox design since Halo CE. Automatics have never stood a chance against precision weapons because they’ve never been balanced to do so.
> >
> > Meanwhile games like TF2 have tons of classes and sub-classes playing differently from one another.
>
> Can you make a skillful automatic that satisfies the beginners? <mark>No. Because it’s too hard.</mark>
>
> Can you make a noobfriendly precision weapon that satisfies the hardcore? As they would want some reward for their effort I would say no.
>
> The reason TF2 plays differently than Halo is because it is a class-based shooter, with no weapons on the map. In TF2 you have 1 perfect playstyle for each person. There is also a different skill-set to each person, meaning one guy is easier to use than another, filling everyones needs.
>
> Having both the AR and BR fills everyones needs in Halo.
>
> While I don’t have a perfect play style (nobody does): I believe that using the AR in close combat is included in the perfect playstyle.

Sorry if i expect the people who made the 60 dollar game i’m paying for to have worked hard to make it.

The issue is that one is clearly far more powerful than the other yet no update has come…ever. 343i wants to make their own Halo start by changing the big gap between Automatics and Precision. People have pasted it off as Precision just take more skill when they really don’t.

It isn’t hard to make a appeal to all players if you test it properly. Even by that statement you are saying everyone who uses the AR is a noob when i enjoy using it and for all i know i have more years as a Halo Vet as you do or matching.

I say that the people who love a good automatic are Halo CE players. Even MC himself prefers the AR.

Just saying to answer your noob frienly weapon look at Gears of War. Those weapons work just fine with issues in the Shotgun range but the weapon like an Automatic Precision weapon or a powerful automatic weapon don’t hurt them and they’ve made it work.

So far all i have seen since Halo Reach is that most of the Halo fans on the forums are really allergic to change who would rather shoot down the first sight of it rather than think about it in the long run.

Lets say if automatics got the range buff in 2 and Precision were weak at the start of Halo 2. No one would bat an eye but they have fallen in love the with guns and refuse to see change. Even thought those things before are why some even left Halo, because they saw no change with a game that was said to have it every game. Don’t sell what you won’t buy.

14

> > > > It never was about having certain weapon with certain capabilities. People want more weapons to choose from so they can pick a weapon which works for them based on skill level.
> > >
> > > And having a weapon that fills two roles satisfies both newbs and experienced players. Having viable and skillful automatics isn’t an issue for Quake, isn’t an issue for Battlefield, isn’t an issue for Counter Strike. I don’t see why Halo is struggling with it.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > In reality there is only 1 perfect playing style and everyone is trying to get there. In higher level gameplay people play extremely similar and the slightest mistake makes you lose.
> > >
> > > There’s only “one perfect playing style” because Halo has had mediocre sandbox design since Halo CE. Automatics have never stood a chance against precision weapons because they’ve never been balanced to do so.
> > >
> > > Meanwhile games like TF2 have tons of classes and sub-classes playing differently from one another.
> >
> > Can you make a skillful automatic that satisfies the beginners? <mark>No. Because it’s too hard.</mark>
> >
> > Can you make a noobfriendly precision weapon that satisfies the hardcore? As they would want some reward for their effort I would say no.
> >
> > The reason TF2 plays differently than Halo is because it is a class-based shooter, with no weapons on the map. In TF2 you have 1 perfect playstyle for each person. There is also a different skill-set to each person, meaning one guy is easier to use than another, filling everyones needs.
> >
> > Having both the AR and BR fills everyones needs in Halo.
> >
> > While I don’t have a perfect play style (nobody does): I believe that using the AR in close combat is included in the perfect playstyle.
>
> Sorry if i expect the people who made the 60 dollar game i’m paying for to have worked hard to make it.
>
> The issue is that one is clearly far more powerful than the other yet no update has come…ever. 343i wants to make their own Halo start by changing the big gap between Automatics and Precision. People have pasted it off as Precision just take more skill when they really don’t.
>
> It isn’t hard to make a appeal to all players if you test it properly. Even by that statement you are saying everyone who uses the AR is a noob when i enjoy using it and for all i know i have more years as a Halo Vet as you do or matching.
>
> I say that the people who love a good automatic are Halo CE players. Even MC himself prefers the AR.
>
> Just saying to answer your noob frienly weapon look at Gears of War. Those weapons work just fine with issues in the Shotgun range but the weapon like an Automatic Precision weapon or a powerful automatic weapon don’t hurt them and they’ve made it work.
>
> So far all i have seen since Halo Reach is that most of the Halo fans on the forums are really allergic to change who would rather shoot down the first sight of it rather than think about it in the long run.
>
> Lets say if automatics got the range buff in 2 and Precision were weak at the start of Halo 2. No one would bat an eye but they have fallen in love the with guns and refuse to see change. Even thought those things before are why some even left Halo, because they saw no change with a game that was said to have it every game. Don’t sell what you won’t buy.

The reason for why those who are using the AR, are using it, is because it is easier to aim with. That is not say it is not a good weapon though, as I believe the weapon is good in it’s niche, close combat. The BR is stronger at medium to long range, which is it’s niche.

If people would start to use the AR in it’s niche and stop trying to cross-map with it, they would finally start to see it’s potential as the weapon it is supposed to be. Instead of wishing for it to be something it is not, use the weapon that is meant for the range you are fighting in, may it be Carbine, BR, DMR or the Light Rifle.

It’s not that we refuse to see change. It’s just that a niche weapon made for close combat combined with the effort it takes to use it, shouldn’t dominate all ranges.

Gears of War 3 is a higly skilled game accounting any kind of weapon, and has a higher population than Gears of War Judgement - A game where nothing really works because of developers trying to be innovative and changed the core gameplay.

As you again account for skill-level in your argument I will say that I could easily 15-0 or 35-5 a level 43 in Halo 3.

Saying the AR takes more skill than the BR tells me exactly what kind of level you are at when it comes to Halo.

I would be perfectly fine with the AR and BR swiching roles. Make the AR the hard automatic headshot multiplier weapon, and make the BR the easy to use close combat burst fire weapon.

Having two hard long range weapons wouldn’t work as stated in of my earlier posts.

15

> > > > > Can you make a skillful automatic that satisfies the beginners? <mark>No. Because it’s too hard.</mark>
> > > > >
> > > > > Can you make a noobfriendly precision weapon that satisfies the hardcore? As they would want some reward for their effort I would say no.
> > > > >
> > > > > The reason TF2 plays differently than Halo is because it is a class-based shooter, with no weapons on the map. In TF2 you have 1 perfect playstyle for each person. There is also a different skill-set to each person, meaning one guy is easier to use than another, filling everyones needs.
> > > > >
> > > > > Having both the AR and BR fills everyones needs in Halo.
> > > > >
> > > > > While I don’t have a perfect play style (nobody does): I believe that using the AR in close combat is included in the perfect playstyle.
> > > >
> > > > Sorry if i expect the people who made the 60 dollar game i’m paying for to have worked hard to make it.
> > > >
> > > > The issue is that one is clearly far more powerful than the other yet no update has come…ever. 343i wants to make their own Halo start by changing the big gap between Automatics and Precision. People have pasted it off as Precision just take more skill when they really don’t.
> > > >
> > > > It isn’t hard to make a appeal to all players if you test it properly. Even by that statement you are saying everyone who uses the AR is a noob when i enjoy using it and for all i know i have more years as a Halo Vet as you do or matching.
> > > >
> > > > I say that the people who love a good automatic are Halo CE players. Even MC himself prefers the AR.
> > > >
> > > > Just saying to answer your noob frienly weapon look at Gears of War. Those weapons work just fine with issues in the Shotgun range but the weapon like an Automatic Precision weapon or a powerful automatic weapon don’t hurt them and they’ve made it work.
> > > >
> > > > So far all i have seen since Halo Reach is that most of the Halo fans on the forums are really allergic to change who would rather shoot down the first sight of it rather than think about it in the long run.
> > > >
> > > > Lets say if automatics got the range buff in 2 and Precision were weak at the start of Halo 2. No one would bat an eye but they have fallen in love the with guns and refuse to see change. Even thought those things before are why some even left Halo, because they saw no change with a game that was said to have it every game. Don’t sell what you won’t buy.
> > >
> > > The reason for why those who are using the AR, are using it, is because it is easier to aim with. That is not say it is not a good weapon though, as I believe the weapon is good in it’s niche, close combat. The BR is stronger at medium to long range, which is it’s niche.
> > >
> > > If people would start to use the AR in it’s niche and stop trying to cross-map with it, they would finally start to see it’s potential as the weapon it is supposed to be. Instead of wishing for it to be something it is not, use the weapon that is meant for the range you are fighting in, may it be Carbine, BR, DMR or the Light Rifle.
> > >
> > > It’s not that we refuse to see change. It’s just that a niche weapon made for close combat combined with the effort it takes to use it, shouldn’t dominate all ranges.
> > >
> > > Gears of War 3 is a higly skilled game accounting any kind of weapon, and has a higher population than Gears of War Judgement - A game where nothing really works because of developers trying to be innovative and changed the core gameplay.
> > >
> > > As you again account for skill-level in your argument I will say that I could easily 15-0 or 35-5 a level 43 in Halo 3.
> > >
> > > Saying the AR takes more skill than the BR tells me exactly what kind of level you are at when it comes to Halo.
> > >
> > > I would be perfectly fine with the AR and BR swiching roles. Make the AR the hard automatic headshot multiplier weapon, and make the BR the easy to use close combat burst fire weapon.
> > >
> > > Having two hard long range weapons wouldn’t work as stated in of my earlier posts.
> >
> > Numbered as listed so, replies can have an easier approach.
> >
> > 1. Are you sure about that. I mean you just said that it was about the weapon niche now you are saying because it is easier to aim…do you just hate the AR. Also the AR can be beaten easily by the BR in its own niche. What does that say. Something is wrong. Thats like a Great White moving in to kill a bear in the water and the bear breaks the sharks neck.
> >
> > 2. I have seen only once or twice when someone fired an AR when a foe wasn’t close to them and that was purely just to harass/slow them down such as CTF or Ricochet. Yet again you preach use a weapon in its niche but the weapons you listed can rule over Automatics because the game is broken on the subject of leveling automatics over precision. Really…how many times a day do you see people using assault rifles to kill snipers?
> >
> > 3. An yet you want to have a weapon that is amazing at 2 niches and moderate at 1. How is that fair…at all. If you use an automatic you should have just as much of a chance to kill a BR user as they have as much as to kill you. Really, people want things to be equal…isn’t that equal.
> >
> > 4. Innovation isn’t bad the refusal of it is. Also like i said in GOW3 an automatic can match a precision gun. You even said if they have the skill. In Halo it almost doesn’t matter if you’re skilled with an AR against someone with a BR, you are almost garenteed death, but Gears. A Lancer vs a HammerBurst. Each player has a chance to kill, Hammerbusrt works from far away with longer kill time while the lancer operates up close with a shorter kill time. If the Hammerburst gets headshots it will do more damage than if the Lancer where to get headshots.
> >
> > 5. Sort of a vauge statement because we are talking weapon vs weapon. Do you think you could get kills like that ona player who is amazing with the BR and all you have is the AR?
> >
> > 6. Take a guess of what level I am. Truth be told you don’t have to. You can either see it first hand. I manily play for fun like everyone else, but when when it hits the fan i’m the guy that is called in. Hell, i’m not a Mandalorian Leader for nothing. I am told to bring Ani Haran, that means Total Cosmic Annihilation…so its kind of a big deal.
> >
> > 7. What do you mean by hard, if you mean in terms of wielding, neither of the weapons are hard to use. Literally anyone can pick up the other and play, that is how they were made and they are. Its just which one you prefer and since the BR rules thats what people prefer.
> >
> > If you wouldn’t mind the roles switching than why are we discussing this. Really its sort of like talking about someone who is almost like you. Its useless and awkward.
> >
> > IDK if you voted but i’m assuming it was neither.

16

> > > > > > Can you make a skillful automatic that satisfies the beginners? <mark>No. Because it’s too hard.</mark>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Can you make a noobfriendly precision weapon that satisfies the hardcore? As they would want some reward for their effort I would say no.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The reason TF2 plays differently than Halo is because it is a class-based shooter, with no weapons on the map. In TF2 you have 1 perfect playstyle for each person. There is also a different skill-set to each person, meaning one guy is easier to use than another, filling everyones needs.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Having both the AR and BR fills everyones needs in Halo.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > While I don’t have a perfect play style (nobody does): I believe that using the AR in close combat is included in the perfect playstyle.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sorry if i expect the people who made the 60 dollar game i’m paying for to have worked hard to make it.
> > > > >
> > > > > The issue is that one is clearly far more powerful than the other yet no update has come…ever. 343i wants to make their own Halo start by changing the big gap between Automatics and Precision. People have pasted it off as Precision just take more skill when they really don’t.
> > > > >
> > > > > It isn’t hard to make a appeal to all players if you test it properly. Even by that statement you are saying everyone who uses the AR is a noob when i enjoy using it and for all i know i have more years as a Halo Vet as you do or matching.
> > > > >
> > > > > I say that the people who love a good automatic are Halo CE players. Even MC himself prefers the AR.
> > > > >
> > > > > Just saying to answer your noob frienly weapon look at Gears of War. Those weapons work just fine with issues in the Shotgun range but the weapon like an Automatic Precision weapon or a powerful automatic weapon don’t hurt them and they’ve made it work.
> > > > >
> > > > > So far all i have seen since Halo Reach is that most of the Halo fans on the forums are really allergic to change who would rather shoot down the first sight of it rather than think about it in the long run.
> > > > >
> > > > > Lets say if automatics got the range buff in 2 and Precision were weak at the start of Halo 2. No one would bat an eye but they have fallen in love the with guns and refuse to see change. Even thought those things before are why some even left Halo, because they saw no change with a game that was said to have it every game. Don’t sell what you won’t buy.
> > > >
> > > > The reason for why those who are using the AR, are using it, is because it is easier to aim with. That is not say it is not a good weapon though, as I believe the weapon is good in it’s niche, close combat. The BR is stronger at medium to long range, which is it’s niche.
> > > >
> > > > If people would start to use the AR in it’s niche and stop trying to cross-map with it, they would finally start to see it’s potential as the weapon it is supposed to be. Instead of wishing for it to be something it is not, use the weapon that is meant for the range you are fighting in, may it be Carbine, BR, DMR or the Light Rifle.
> > > >
> > > > It’s not that we refuse to see change. It’s just that a niche weapon made for close combat combined with the effort it takes to use it, shouldn’t dominate all ranges.
> > > >
> > > > Gears of War 3 is a higly skilled game accounting any kind of weapon, and has a higher population than Gears of War Judgement - A game where nothing really works because of developers trying to be innovative and changed the core gameplay.
> > > >
> > > > As you again account for skill-level in your argument I will say that I could easily 15-0 or 35-5 a level 43 in Halo 3.
> > > >
> > > > Saying the AR takes more skill than the BR tells me exactly what kind of level you are at when it comes to Halo.
> > > >
> > > > I would be perfectly fine with the AR and BR swiching roles. Make the AR the hard automatic headshot multiplier weapon, and make the BR the easy to use close combat burst fire weapon.
> > > >
> > > > Having two hard long range weapons wouldn’t work as stated in of my earlier posts.
> > >
> > > Numbered as listed so, replies can have an easier approach.
> > >
> > > 1. Are you sure about that. I mean you just said that it was about the weapon niche now you are saying because it is easier to aim…do you just hate the AR. Also the AR can be beaten easily by the BR in its own niche. What does that say. Something is wrong. Thats like a Great White moving in to kill a bear in the water and the bear breaks the sharks neck.
> > >
> > > 2. I have seen only once or twice when someone fired an AR when a foe wasn’t close to them and that was purely just to harass/slow them down such as CTF or Ricochet. Yet again you preach use a weapon in its niche but the weapons you listed can rule over Automatics because the game is broken on the subject of leveling automatics over precision. Really…how many times a day do you see people using assault rifles to kill snipers?
> > >
> > > 3. An yet you want to have a weapon that is amazing at 2 niches and moderate at 1. How is that fair…at all. If you use an automatic you should have just as much of a chance to kill a BR user as they have as much as to kill you. Really, people want things to be equal…isn’t that equal.
> > >
> > > 4. Innovation isn’t bad the refusal of it is. Also like i said in GOW3 an automatic can match a precision gun. You even said if they have the skill. <mark>In Halo it almost doesn’t matter if you’re skilled with an AR against someone with a BR, you are almost garenteed death, but Gears</mark>. A Lancer vs a HammerBurst. Each player has a chance to kill, Hammerbusrt works from far away with longer kill time while the lancer operates up close with a shorter kill time. If the Hammerburst gets headshots it will do more damage than if the Lancer where to get headshots.
> > >
> > > 5. Sort of a vauge statement because we are talking weapon vs weapon. Do you think you could get kills like that ona player who is amazing with the BR and all you have is the AR?
> > >
> > > 6. Take a guess of what level I am. Truth be told you don’t have to. You can either see it first hand. I manily play for fun like everyone else, but when when it hits the fan i’m the guy that is called in. Hell, i’m not a Mandalorian Leader for nothing. I am told to bring Ani Haran, that means Total Cosmic Annihilation…so its kind of a big deal.
> > >
> > > 7. What do you mean by hard, if you mean in terms of wielding, neither of the weapons are hard to use. Literally anyone can pick up the other and play, that is how they were made and they are. Its just which one you prefer and since the BR rules thats what people prefer.
> > >
> > > If you wouldn’t mind the roles switching than why are we discussing this. Really its sort of like talking about someone who is almost like you. Its useless and awkward.
> > >
> > > IDK if you voted but i’m assuming it was neither.
> >
> > This is where I saw you missed Ramirez’s point. He is saying the AR takes no skill as it is in Halo with it’s ridiculous ease of aim. So if you get beat by a BR using an AR you are over-extending the AR’s capabilities, or you suck.
> >
> > Personally, the AR/SR rape all other weapons but PO’s in CQ. Not even close.

17

> I don’t really understand why we have the Battle Rifle.
>
> We could simply make the Assault Rifle accurate when fired in three-round bursts, give it some sort of headshot modifier, and give it a scope if necessary. It would function the same way as the Battle Rifle, along with having automatic capabilities.
>
> Battle Rifle fans would be content, and Assault Rifle fans would be content.
>
> Having tons of weapons that only fill one function is inferior to having a few weapons that fill many functions.
>
> TLDR what we need to do is focus on ways to combine weaponry, remove redundancies, and add depth to existing weaponry.

I think I’d rather just have the Assault Rifle and the Battle Rifle remain as separate weapons. A weapon that offers all ranges at once would weaken balance, and having an ARBR would do just that. You could say that the ARBR would be a unique weapon with many different roles, but that doesn’t save it from usurping the throne of balance. While there are other weapons that have different functions (the Plasma Pistol and the Grenade Launcher being two), the different functions don’t alter the weapon’s intended range or put it in the fields that other weapons should belong in.

I have the same opinion on the OP’s BMR idea. I like the DMR the way it is, and I’m content with the Battle Rifle remaining unchanged. We don’t have to merge weapons together just to form a “compromise.”

Also, variety doesn’t necessarily mean that weapons must be five different weapons at once, variety means that each weapon does its role differently from another.

Back in the days of Halo: CE, there were three different automatic weapons provided to the player. These were the Assault Rifle, Plasma Rifle, and the Needler. While all of these weapons had the same purpose in gameplay, they did their task in very unique ways.

Another example: Gravity Hammer and the Energy Sword. While both of these weapons add to the CQC niche in gameplay (along with the Shotgun and the Scattershot), they do it in very different ways from each other. The Gravity Hammer has a lower lunge distance, but focuses immense amounts of power into a shockwave that not only knocks enemies and objects into the air, but also knocks unyielding amounts of satisfaction into the minds of its user. The Energy Sword, on the other hand, delivers quick and silent kills to its user through longer lunge distances, and it can be parried with other Energy Swords.

18

> I think I’d rather just have the Assault Rifle and the Battle Rifle remain as separate weapons. A weapon that offers all ranges at once would weaken balance, and having an ARBR would do just that.

No, it doesn’t. It simply performs the utility role that a spawn weapon should have had from the beginning.

Of course such an idea would remove everyone’s precious Battle Rifle, and we can’t have that.

> Back in the days of Halo: CE, there were three different automatic weapons provided to the player. These were the Assault Rifle, Plasma Rifle, and the Needler. While all of these weapons had the same purpose in gameplay, they did their task in very unique ways.

The Needler was best at longer ranges, the Plasma Rifle best at medium, and the AR best at close. And their balancing with each other was finicky at best.

19

> > > > > > > game that was said to have it every game. Don’t sell what you won’t buy.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The reason for why those who are using the AR, are using it, is because it is easier to aim with. That is not say it is not a good weapon though, as I believe the weapon is good in it’s niche, close combat. The BR is stronger at medium to long range, which is it’s niche.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If people would start to use the AR in it’s niche and stop trying to cross-map with it, they would finally start to see it’s potential as the weapon it is supposed to be. Instead of wishing for it to be something it is not, use the weapon that is meant for the range you are fighting in, may it be Carbine, BR, DMR or the Light Rifle.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It’s not that we refuse to see change. It’s just that a niche weapon made for close combat combined with the effort it takes to use it, shouldn’t dominate all ranges.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Gears of War 3 is a higly skilled game accounting any kind of weapon, and has a higher population than Gears of War Judgement - A game where nothing really works because of developers trying to be innovative and changed the core gameplay.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As you again account for skill-level in your argument I will say that I could easily 15-0 or 35-5 a level 43 in Halo 3.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Saying the AR takes more skill than the BR tells me exactly what kind of level you are at when it comes to Halo.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would be perfectly fine with the AR and BR swiching roles. Make the AR the hard automatic headshot multiplier weapon, and make the BR the easy to use close combat burst fire weapon.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Having two hard long range weapons wouldn’t work as stated in of my earlier posts.
> > > > >
> > > > > Numbered as listed so, replies can have an easier approach.
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. Are you sure about that. I mean you just said that it was about the weapon niche now you are saying because it is easier to aim…do you just hate the AR. Also the AR can be beaten easily by the BR in its own niche. What does that say. Something is wrong. Thats like a Great White moving in to kill a bear in the water and the bear breaks the sharks neck.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2. I have seen only once or twice when someone fired an AR when a foe wasn’t close to them and that was purely just to harass/slow them down such as CTF or Ricochet. Yet again you preach use a weapon in its niche but the weapons you listed can rule over Automatics because the game is broken on the subject of leveling automatics over precision. Really…how many times a day do you see people using assault rifles to kill snipers?
> > > > >
> > > > > 3. An yet you want to have a weapon that is amazing at 2 niches and moderate at 1. How is that fair…at all. If you use an automatic you should have just as much of a chance to kill a BR user as they have as much as to kill you. Really, people want things to be equal…isn’t that equal.
> > > > >
> > > > > 4. Innovation isn’t bad the refusal of it is. Also like i said in GOW3 an automatic can match a precision gun. You even said if they have the skill. <mark>In Halo it almost doesn’t matter if you’re skilled with an AR against someone with a BR, you are almost garenteed death, but Gears</mark>. A Lancer vs a HammerBurst. Each player has a chance to kill, Hammerbusrt works from far away with longer kill time while the lancer operates up close with a shorter kill time. If the Hammerburst gets headshots it will do more damage than if the Lancer where to get headshots.
> > > > >
> > > > > 5. Sort of a vauge statement because we are talking weapon vs weapon. Do you think you could get kills like that ona player who is amazing with the BR and all you have is the AR?
> > > > >
> > > > > 6. Take a guess of what level I am. Truth be told you don’t have to. You can either see it first hand. I manily play for fun like everyone else, but when when it hits the fan i’m the guy that is called in. Hell, i’m not a Mandalorian Leader for nothing. I am told to bring Ani Haran, that means Total Cosmic Annihilation…so its kind of a big deal.
> > > > >
> > > > > 7. What do you mean by hard, if you mean in terms of wielding, neither of the weapons are hard to use. Literally anyone can pick up the other and play, that is how they were made and they are. Its just which one you prefer and since the BR rules thats what people prefer.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you wouldn’t mind the roles switching than why are we discussing this. Really its sort of like talking about someone who is almost like you. Its useless and awkward.
> > > > >
> > > > > IDK if you voted but i’m assuming it was neither.
> > > >
> > > > This is where I saw you missed Ramirez’s point. He is saying the AR takes no skill as it is in Halo with it’s ridiculous ease of aim. So if you get beat by a BR using an AR you are over-extending the AR’s capabilities, or you suck.
> > > >
> > > > Personally, the AR/SR rape all other weapons but PO’s in CQ. Not even close.
> > >
> > > I wasn’t talking to Ramirez and i’m sure we are on the same side with how the BR shouldn’t be the Ultimate Badass gun…nothing should be the Ultimate Badass gun.
> > >
> > > That was Xboxdigger who said the AR takes no skill saying it is easy to aim yet…what gun isn’t. As far as i can tell the hardest gun to aim in Halo 4 is the Needler. Other than that nothing is really the type of gun that makes people think i won’t use this gun because it is too hard to aim.
> > >
> > > They aren’t bad guns but the issue isn’t that its how the Precision guns are forced onto players if they want to live. Just like how the DMR was forced on others early in Halo 4. 343i took the bad path in fixing the precision weapons because they are just satiating those who originally started the precision issues. Make it so the AR and other automatics can actually do better at longer ranges and problem solved.
> > >
> > > That way if i want to use my AR in a match on Ragnarok i won’t be faced with. Sudden Death.

20

> > It never was about having certain weapon with certain capabilities. People want more weapons to choose from so they can pick a weapon which works for them based on skill level.
>
> And having a weapon that fills two roles satisfies both newbs and experienced players. Having viable and skillful automatics isn’t an issue for Quake, isn’t an issue for Battlefield, isn’t an issue for Counter Strike. I don’t see why Halo is struggling with it.

Because of massive auto aim/bullet magnetism. Automatics are specifically designed to be easy to use. Bungie could EASILY make a skillful automatic, but they choose not to, because automatics are designed for unskilled players to be able to actually hit something enough times to get a kill.

Pandering to the casuals.

Also, I would hardly call Quakes automatic viable.

P.S. If you want non-power weapons to be useful they must require skill to be effective. If you have weapons that are easy to use and effective you essentially just destroyed the integrity of your FPS. If you don’t understand this or disagree I don’t know what to say.