Flight feedback part 2

Overall I felt the flight feedback report was pretty good.

I’m actually one of the few people that thinks aiming felt fine (after some tweaking with Max input threshold) so I think it is an issue of a bad default rather than with the underlying system. So I’m a bit disappointed they are buffing the aim assists (even if slightly).

However, what I’m really disappointed about is the complete lack of discussion about vehicle fragility in btb. I saw tons of feedback in the forums and on YouTube about vehicles just being so weak in btb because of the overwhelming number of counters combined with narrow canyon paths on Fragmentation. There basically wasn’t much point in getting a vehicle (except for ghost) because typically you’d be able to trade kills or just a kill off before the inevitable grapplejack (which is way too easy to pull off).

There were definitely other things. Off the top if my head (I’m sure I forgot about some):

  • radar rework
  • pc perf improvements (many)
  • drop wall activation time sped up since first flight
  • map weapon spawn and placement
  • (I think) some weapon tuning
  • training drill ranks harder to achieve
  • some weapon specific drill changes with respect to target location and movement
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I disagree with their decision to keep the bloom levels the same. It was so annoying trying to balance aiming with constantly pacing your shots so the bloom could decrease.

XP boosts need to pause between matches. No one wants to spend money on XP boosts if a significant chunk of their time is wasted sitting in the lobby.

Also the fact that almost everything was marked as “we’ll monitor it,” so nothing is getting changed at launch?

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I guess my issues with the feedback is that it feels, false.

For example they said the received positive feedback on the Friend or Foe system. I don’t believe this for a second. The only reason they are forcing this system is to encourage players to spend money on armor and colors. They say its in the name of accessibility but in 20 years, and 6 different Halo titles this has never been an issue.

I just feel like a lot the feedback from 343 is yes we hear you, but its our game and we like it this way, so…

Another example; you can’t tell me that the dropwall or threat sensor got any good feedback, but 343 still insists that it works as intended and they arn’t changing it any time soon.

Basically I don’t think 343 is really listening but taking everything with a grain of salt.

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I would agree I mean I try to out think my opponents like chess but with guns, if the collision is only with your teammates then I can live with that but if its with everyone then we might as well just play apex

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I would agree with you on this not everyone can or will be completely satisfied with the final product because we cant connect the old halo games from 2000 to now because the times are different and we all know and love the halo games that brought us to now like how we all are discussing right now about what we want it to be because we want it to be like the halo game that brought us individuality into the game like how I played 1 2 and 3 but the one that relly brought me into the game was halo reach

Honestly I like the drop wall the way it is now. I ended up using it a fair a mount to post up on power positions. If you end up managing your movement behind the panels, you can easily protect yourself from multiple shots - more than enough to kill multiple opponents.

If you are using it reactively you aren’t using it right.

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Exciting things and great communication form 343 team.

From my limited time playing the game I didn’t really experience the common “problems” and “hot topics”.
HUD was fine for me, aiming was good, collision not a problem…but scorpion tank was hard to drive.

Aiming
I’m still unsure on the hole aiming debate. I personally didn’t feel the aiming was “off” or “bad” but I’m on console so maybe didn’t affect me too much. Was it more of a PC problem? I certainly would like some more aim assist but I totally get why it’s not there so much and it make sense that some more powerful weapons should be harder to master but are not hard to use…once you get it.
I’ certainly never gonna master anything but it’ll be fun I hope :slight_smile:

Player Collision
I’m fine with player collisions not being on as it makes it easier for me to play the game and have a more fun relaxing time, not getting shunted out that way or blocked when I’m trying to run for cover. However I understand why people enjoy that and maybe it’s something they one day could add into custom games or for ranked/HCS modes.
You know the first time someone hits their team mate while trying to use a grapple they’ll want it turned back off, right? :wink:

Vehicle Handling
Glad this is being addressed. Managed to get in a scorpion twice and both times it didn’t feel natural and i really messed it up. Adding vehicles into training mode will help this. Just give me a solid 10 minutes with the tank and no one shooting at me and i’ll get the hang of it. Mind you i would get this from the Campaign anyway so…maybe don’t need it in training mode. :upside_down_face:

I just hope we get to properly team up with our friends in BTB. Plenty of times I was in a fireteam with friend and then on the start of a match I was in another fireteam, and we had all been split up.

Having a bigger radar will hopefully help with the drop wall issue too. As you say it’s for a pre combat use, to deploy before the shooting starts. Then knowing where your foe is coming from and how far away will help to deploy it.

Overall I’m happy with everything i read, still super excited to play and get back into it. Not long now :smiley:

I have two rants, yes…

#1. Radar size is not just a “didn’t like it; felt too small” thing. It’s an accessibility issue. I have severe hearing problems, not to mention a noisy house, and that amounts to me not being able to hear most audio cues in the game, especially subtle ones like footsteps. The old radar, at 25m at minimum, allowed me to tell when someone was walking up behind me as easily as other players hear footsteps. Now, I find myself realizing there’s someone there too late, very often. A larger radar UI will help with this, but seriously, a 25m radar needs to come back. This is one of the reasons I always liked Halo over other games; in other games I have no idea what’s going on half the time. Halo has always allowed me to really play a type of game I couldn’t experience otherwise, and radar was a massive part of it. I really want to see them bring back the radar the way it used to be.

#2. They didn’t say anything addressing the poor visual cues for vehicle damage. Right now, I can barely tell when a part of the vehicle gets damaged while I’m driving or riding in the vehicle. From the outside it’s easier, but while operating the vehicle it is sometimes very difficult to see. I know there was also a bug that prevented the damage from showing, but even beyond that, I feel like the damage is just not visually obvious, and it should be very clear. Especially the doomed state; there should be a giant fireball on the vehicle, smoke and super obvious effects to tell everyone “Hey, this thing is gonna explode.” Right now, it’s a subtle red glow that only get obvious enough to see when it’s too late. As I said before, audio cues don’t work for me, so I’d really like to see better visual cues about vehicle damage.

As to the player collisions; I do actually enjoy not bumping into allies all the time. It is nice to not get killed because an ally ran into me as I tried to retreat. That was super frustrating in old games. However I really feel like buddy jumping is a big part of Halo, so I hope they turn on vertical only collisions. Leave them off at launch, and add in vertical collisions eventually so we can buddy jump again.

Thanks for the great support work 343; hope to see more of this in the future.

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I agree that electric weapons/vehicle counter play felt bad. But I feel like that is something you just with that ammo type. I think like a 3 pulse on a Dynamo grenade in order to EMP a vehicle is needed/better. The shock rifle is harder since it’s suppose to be stronger but it’-Yoink!- scan. I almost feel like they should have an alt fire that EMPs and empties the entire mag. Whereas shooting normally doesn’t impact vehicles, maybe just reduces players in the vehicles by a percentage.

yeah its a bummer dude it just removes other aspects of player innovation with jumps and stuff… I feel ya dude.

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While I disagree with various things, I appreciate 343 taking feedback and sharing their thoughts. That being said, here are my thoughts:

AIMING:

We also know that when the game is not fully optimized, which is the case in our tech preview builds, aiming does not “feel” as good as it would at launch.

I sure hope this is true because the aiming on console controller was outright terrible. Halo used to be the gold standard and MCC still feels great, and now Infinite is a big step backward.

There was a strong focus on raising the skill ceiling without removing the fun, natural aiming feel that you expect from a Halo game.

As a result of this closer look, we’ve made minor changes to the “cone angle” of aim assist on select weapons for launch.

I’m glad they are doing something, but this concerns me. The default controller settings were terrible and I know many people were upset about how slow you could turn even on max settings. They definitely removed the fun. I understand wanting to raise the skill ceiling, but I’d argue they are making Halo Infinite too inaccessible where a new, unskilled player will not enjoy the game at all. At a minimum, 343 needs to make the default settings as close to Halo MCC as possible, even if aiming is tuned to be a bit more difficult. Aiming needs to FEEL like Halo always has - this is a spiritual reboot. It seems to me that something more fundamental needs to change because getting your reticle into the aim assist cone of a moving target is very difficult and unnatural.

MOTION TRACKER / RADAR:

We did see people say that they still felt like they were being caught off guard due to the radius size of the Combat Sensor, with the majority of these reports coming from Big Team Battle. For Arena’s social settings, we didn’t see enough feedback to want to make a fundamental change here ahead of launch but we will continue to monitor it when we launch. For Big Team Battle, we agree and plan on getting this updated from 18m to 22m shortly after launch.

It was just as big an issue in social arena as it was BTB. In fact, given how much more often opponents are within 25m in arena, I think the issue is even worse in arena. I think it should be 22m in arena and 25m in BTB. Lastly, not until after launch? Really??

PLAYER COLLISION:

Player collision, which is split in the community, is one that we believe is better to keep as is for the time being. We recognize that there are fun moments that can come from having it enabled, but we see far more benefits to the core gameplay loop for the majority of our players when teammates aren’t bumping one another. Running into a teammate at the start of a match, during normal gameplay, while trying to back down because you’re weak, when running the flag and trying to get around a corner, and more - these are common pain points that we’ve eliminated with this one decision.

I have never heard anybody complain about any of these “issues”. I find not having player collision is really weird, but at the end of the day I don’t see this as a big deal in my enjoyment of the game.

BATTLE PASSES AND PROGRESSION:

Feedback: Many players want to earn per-match XP outside of Challenges
Feedback: Concerns around timed Double XP Boost efficiency
Feedback: Desire for a “career” ranking system in addition to the Battle Pass

I get that everyone wants live service games that constantly have new things to go work towards, as well as the desire for devs to use it as a way to monetize the game, but I’m not a fan of most battle passes with a lot of progression management. I know I’m the minority, but I’ll share my opinion anyway. I just don’t have the time or desire to manage battle passes and want to earn XP/currency for all accomplishments anytime I’m playing. I want simplicity to be able to see what I can unlock (and how to earn it) in the armory spartan customization UI where I can directly preview, unlock, and equip things. I really don’t want a separate battle pass UI or store UI - just make it seamless and label where/how things became available to me in the armory.

While I’m probably the minority, 343 would have this kind of MP progression in my ideal world:

  • Career stats with an XP-based rank
  • Seasonal competitive skill-based rank
  • A simple system where you earn both XP and “armory credits” (currency) for everything you do: kills, assists, captures, defends, MP wins, challenge completions, etc. Armory credits can even be super simple, like you get 1 for every N XP points earned. Credits get spent to unlock things in the armory and XP just accumulates for your career stats and rank.
  • For battle passes, have them unlock more items to earn as well as new, unique challenges to earn some of them (rather than being entirely currency based). This keeps things simple where I’m not managing battle passes, where XP goes, and challenges. Rather, I’m just deciding if I want the battle pass or not, then simply customizing my spartan as I choose from that one UI, unlocking items via currency or challenges that are available from the battle pass I got.

WEAPONS:

The Mk50 really is meant to be a sidearm, not a primary utility weapon like many expect coming off the heels of Halo 5, and we believe it is fulfilling its role with its current tunings.

Ugh. The Sidekick really needs to be fun to use. I feel like the difficulty aiming it combined with such a limited range makes a huge portion of players just outright avoid it altogether. I’m fine with ensuring it has limited range, but please at least make it satisfying to use at closer range.

the VK78 actually started to do a little too well […] In the case of the VK78, we reduced the damage on it so now it requires one more bullet to secure a kill.

Again, ugh. The Commando was WAY too hard to aim. For me, it was better than an AR at longer range when I didn’t have a BR, but I would otherwise never choose to use this weapon. BTB felt kind of crappy a lot of the technical test because I couldn’t find an available BR and the Commando was NEVER, in any situation, as good as a BR. That’s broken IMO. There should be at least a sweet spot where it’s better than the BR and it should be more obviously better than the AR at mid range.

The conversations around the Plasma Pistol were good to read over the course of the flight. It went from near outrage at the removal of its ability to EMP vehicles, to mild dislike, and then shifted to constructive criticism about its role in the Arena and Big Team Battle gameplay loop. We expected a bit of shock when that change came into play, but we were happy to see the conversation shift towards feedback - because we agreed with a lot of it. We also noticed it wasn’t performing well in its intended role against Spartans. Thanks to your feedback, we’ll be looking at some targeted changes to address its shortcomings against Spartans. We can’t guarantee these changes will make launch, but they are in-progress and will make their way to the game soon.

Bring back the EMP on the plasma pistol. The plasma pistol was utterly worthless to pick-up in the technical test. None of the maps have an abundance of plasma pistols anyway (esp. BTB), and even with stronger tracking, it’s not very useful against spartans unless you’re in close range. EMP was the 1 reason this weapon actually has a place in the sandbox IMO. Sure, in a smaller map you could use it in a combo with a precision weapon, but often a person that has good aim with a precision weapon will be just as effective.

Bring back the Halo CE look of the needler projectiles. The bigger, brighter needles with larger explosions look way cooler than what is in Halo Infinite.

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All in all, you do have to give 343 some credit for listening to a lot of the feedback by the community.

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This was amazing other than the few bugs in the game play it was a good snap shot of what the real multiplayer is going to be like and I am excited! :sunglasses:

I was a little shocked to see 343 is doubling down on their power vehicle progression idea for BTB, since it seemed to be almost univerally disliked in the feedback thread. If BTB ends up being anywhere near as vehicle-deprived as it was during the flight, I doubt it will be well-received by the general public on December 8th. If that happens, the end of matches feeling like “bigger moments” wouldn’t be worth it at all. I’m kind of hoping they add a Heavies variant of BTB where vehicles spawn the way they used to.

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I would greatly appreciate it if 343 Industries would provide players the option to turn off the kill confirmation goomba stomp- like sounds associated with each kill & assist. Everything else seems awesome! It’s just the kill confirmation sounds play at such a high frequency they rub my ear drums the wrong way :hear_no_evil:

I think I’m in the minority when I say that I actually like the removal of the Plasma Pistol’s emp. It makes vehicles a dangerous powerhouse again. I remember playing Halo 4 and only focusing on vehicles in BTB because of how easy they were to eliminate with a Plasma Pistol. Plus, bonus points for the “bigger” kills so I ended up doing what seemed like less work for more points.

Although I will admit it makes the campaign seem terrifying knowing I can’t noob combo every Elite I encounter.

That makes complete sense.

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Your first point is spot on IMO: if they give you an option to enable red vs blue in the settings then the appeal of the battle pass is greatly diminished. A big part of the battle pass will be armor coating options.

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Yeah I know that I was just referring to those sweats that play super crazy will most likely have a higher K/D than me and and will most likely not be matched up with me after SBMM kicks in. I just dislike how every game has some stupid number next to you with a badge when it could just not have that and nothing would change. Except you wouldnt have people trying to grind that useless number to the max like in halo 5 everyone trying to get to SR152 it incentivises aggressive playstyles. If they don’t have that progression then most people would be less concerned about there performance especially with the battle passes not expiring, I was hoping this would be the most casual halo since CE but I guess not.

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Halo 4 enabled loadouts where anybody in BTB could have a plasma pistol. Halo Infinite is not like that - players are limited to what is available on the map (and actually getting to it). Additionally, the EMP duration could be nerfed a bit if needed.

Instead, in Infinite they have made the plasma pistol a weapon that doesn’t even serve a role in the sandbox. I’d love to see the stats on how much it was used relative to other weapons in the technical test.

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