Flagnum power

Something i dont get about the flagnum.

343i is talking about increasing its power so that a flag carrier has a decent chance 1v1 against a rifle. Surely the best way to do that is to make it a 5 SK instead of 6SK, which with an 8 round clip is a bit unforgiving.

But then youve got like 2 different types of magnums in the game even though they look exactly the same, and we know from reach that having a gun that is the same gun but behaves differently (EG TU DMR vs normal DMR) is a recipe for confusion and discord, nothing good comes from it.

So isnt it the logical conclusion here to just make the magnum into a 5SK overall, which would also boost the flagnum power by definition whilst keeping them identical in function, which means if you like playing CTF and running the flag, you can run with a magnum loadout in general play in order to get good with the gun in order to be ready once you get the flagnum.

This would also go some way to alleviating the danger that the just magnum becomes another weapon which no one cares about, given the power of the rifles, yet still clearly demarcates it as a sidearm.

I jut dont see how they could alter the characteristics of the flagnum alone without things getting unnecessarily confusing for normal magnum users. As i said, messsing with peoples muscle memory like this, ala Reach, is a bad idea.

Also, anyone know if you can still use the zoom with the flagnum?

Yes, you can zoom with the Flagnum.

And I agree with the Magnum being a 5SK, or even 4SK with a slower rate of fire. It would make me actually want to choose it over the other two sidearms, and would fit the model of “Every UNSC weapon must be a 5 shot!” that is followed by the BR and DMR.

Although, the damage boost of the Flagnum has not been detailed yet.

I actually welcome the damage boost with open arms.

And you can zoom with the flagnum.

I don’t see the problem. You only get the Flagnum when holding the flag, it’s the same as say over shields when you pick up the Grifball. I don’t play Assault and pick up the ball, then play Grifball and freak out after picking up the bomb!The first time I played anniversary slayer in Reach, I wasn’t freaked out that the pistol was so good, I just adjusted to getting faster kill times. I don’t think people will get confused.

> I don’t see the problem. You only get the Flagnum when holding the flag, it’s the same as say over shields when you pick up the Grifball. I don’t play Assault and pick up the ball, then play Grifball and freak out after picking up the bomb!The first time I played anniversary slayer in Reach, I wasn’t freaked out that the pistol was so good, I just adjusted to getting faster kill times. I don’t think people will get confused.

People do get confused. Just look on the Reach forums every once in a while, and see the people asking what TU does. It will only be worse because the Flagnum and Magnum will exist in the same environment now, as opposed to different gametypes.

When you have a weapon that looks and sounds exactly the same as a different weapon, players will just assume the weapons function the same.

I don’t see why that is a problem. Sure, I understand that they may become confused, but I don’t see it affecting their game at all. So what if they have faster kill times, maybe when they go back to the normal magnum they will make the mistake of shooting too little bullets for a kill or something, but they will then learn that the Flagnum is stronger. I don’t think the normal magnum should be brought up to the level of the Flagnum, if they have to, I would suggest bringing the Flagnum down to the magnums level. We don’t want the magnum to match up with precision weapons, because it is a secondary. You use a secondary when you don’t have time to reload and need a quick few shots, not so you can use it as a primary like CE.

> > I don’t see the problem. You only get the Flagnum when holding the flag, it’s the same as say over shields when you pick up the Grifball. I don’t play Assault and pick up the ball, then play Grifball and freak out after picking up the bomb!The first time I played anniversary slayer in Reach, I wasn’t freaked out that the pistol was so good, I just adjusted to getting faster kill times. I don’t think people will get confused.
>
> People do get confused. Just look on the Reach forums every once in a while, and see the people asking what TU does. It will only be worse because the Flagnum and Magnum will exist in the same environment now, as opposed to different gametypes.
>
> When you have a weapon that looks and sounds exactly the same as a different weapon, players will just assume the weapons function the same.

I really don’t think any newcomer would really see the difference. He would pick up the flag and maybe all of sudden see that he’s dropping people quicker with the magnum but I’d assume he wouldn’t be so mesmerized and baffled as to be confused. I don’t think a change is needed. Meleeing when you have the flag is an insta-kill. Should the damage be changed to a two-shot melee so that they don’t just assume the “weapons” function the same?

343 said its actualy mostly to slow down people sprinting twords you …if you remember being shot at slows you down

> I don’t see why that is a problem. Sure, I understand that they may become confused, but I don’t see it affecting their game at all. So what if they have faster kill times, maybe when they go back to the normal magnum they will make the mistake of shooting too little bullets for a kill or something, but they will then learn that the Flagnum is stronger. I don’t think the normal magnum should be brought up to the level of the Flagnum, if they have to, I would suggest bringing the Flagnum down to the magnums level. We don’t want the magnum to match up with precision weapons, because it is a secondary. You use a secondary when you don’t have time to reload and need a quick few shots, not so you can use it as a primary like CE.

But why not make the weapon a little more viable? It gives a close quarters option to ranged classes. It’s not like the bloom or base spread is going to allow the weapon to be versatile at all. It would still be outshot by the AR, and players that want a more reliable close range secondary could run a DMR/AR combo with Firepower.

> > > I don’t see the problem. You only get the Flagnum when holding the flag, it’s the same as say over shields when you pick up the Grifball. I don’t play Assault and pick up the ball, then play Grifball and freak out after picking up the bomb!The first time I played anniversary slayer in Reach, I wasn’t freaked out that the pistol was so good, I just adjusted to getting faster kill times. I don’t think people will get confused.
> >
> > People do get confused. Just look on the Reach forums every once in a while, and see the people asking what TU does. It will only be worse because the Flagnum and Magnum will exist in the same environment now, as opposed to different gametypes.
> >
> > When you have a weapon that looks and sounds exactly the same as a different weapon, players will just assume the weapons function the same.
>
> I really don’t think any newcomer would really see the difference. He would pick up the flag and maybe all of sudden see that he’s dropping people quicker with the magnum but I’d assume he wouldn’t be so mesmerized and baffled as to be confused. I don’t think a change is needed. Meleeing when you have the flag is an insta-kill. Should the damage be changed to a two-shot melee so that they don’t just assume the “weapons” function the same?

If the melee looked exactly the same as a regular weapon’s melee, yes.

The Flagnum having more power is like having a DMR in Reach that is a 4SK, but you hold it slightly tilted to the left. Players would expect identical weapons to function the same.

> > I don’t see why that is a problem. Sure, I understand that they may become confused, but I don’t see it affecting their game at all. So what if they have faster kill times, maybe when they go back to the normal magnum they will make the mistake of shooting too little bullets for a kill or something, but they will then learn that the Flagnum is stronger. I don’t think the normal magnum should be brought up to the level of the Flagnum, if they have to, I would suggest bringing the Flagnum down to the magnums level. We don’t want the magnum to match up with precision weapons, because it is a secondary. You use a secondary when you don’t have time to reload and need a quick few shots, not so you can use it as a primary like CE.
>
> But why not make the weapon a little more viable? It gives a close quarters option to ranged classes. It’s not like the bloom or base spread is going to allow the weapon to be versatile at all. It would still be outshot by the AR, and players that want a more reliable close range secondary could run a DMR/AR combo with Firepower.

I don’t know. I don’t like the idea of the magnum being any stronger. I will be using a AR Magnum combo on close quarters maps, but I don’t really want to see it becoming just a little less powerful then say the DMR.

> > > I don’t see why that is a problem. Sure, I understand that they may become confused, but I don’t see it affecting their game at all. So what if they have faster kill times, maybe when they go back to the normal magnum they will make the mistake of shooting too little bullets for a kill or something, but they will then learn that the Flagnum is stronger. I don’t think the normal magnum should be brought up to the level of the Flagnum, if they have to, I would suggest bringing the Flagnum down to the magnums level. We don’t want the magnum to match up with precision weapons, because it is a secondary. You use a secondary when you don’t have time to reload and need a quick few shots, not so you can use it as a primary like CE.
> >
> > But why not make the weapon a little more viable? It gives a close quarters option to ranged classes. It’s not like the bloom or base spread is going to allow the weapon to be versatile at all. It would still be outshot by the AR, and players that want a more reliable close range secondary could run a DMR/AR combo with Firepower.
>
> I don’t know. I don’t like the idea of the magnum being any stronger. I will be using a AR Magnum combo on close quarters maps, but I don’t really want to see it becoming just a little less powerful then say the DMR.

It will never be on the level of a DMR for the simple fact that it is really inaccurate, has a very high bloom expansion rate, and features a very shallow magazine.

> I don’t see why that is a problem. Sure, I understand that they may become confused, but I don’t see it affecting their game at all. So what if they have faster kill times, maybe when they go back to the normal magnum they will make the mistake of shooting too little bullets for a kill or something, but they will then learn that the Flagnum is stronger. I don’t think the normal magnum should be brought up to the level of the Flagnum, if they have to, I would suggest bringing the Flagnum down to the magnums level. We don’t want the magnum to match up with precision weapons, because it is a secondary. You use a secondary when you don’t have time to reload and need a quick few shots, not so you can use it as a primary like CE.

This is the problem. The magnum and “flagnum” is canonically the same gun. Its the M6H. Flagnum is just a colloquialism.

Yet one behaves differently to the other simple because you are holding a flag in the other hand? It makes no logical sense.

And as i stated, a 5SK magnum would still be very much defined as a sidearm compared to the rifles, especially seeing as its the only gun that has significant bloom now.

Honestly going back and for between TU and non TU reach is a pain, because of things acting slightly differently throwing my game off. Its a shme reach got into that situation but its too late to change now.

But halo 4 is a brand new game, i see no reason to repeat that same madness at all, especially as sitri said within the very same match! I want to play lots of CTF and run the flag lots, and i want to have a magnum in my loadout too so i can get good with it and be prepared for flag running. I dont want my magnum skills being thrown off when it counts because the bloody thing acts differently depending on what youre doing. Makes no sense.

It should be a 5sk with a 10 round mag. If that’s a problem, they can lower the RoF and increase the optimal RoF.

But it’s not like I haven’t been talking about that since I heard that it was a 6sk earlier this year…

Honestly I think the game as a whole would benefit from having a 5SK Magnum, period. Simply to balance loadouts. It would give people an incentive not to always pick noob combo as their only loadout of chose and provide a viable lifeline to players who want to pick an automatic weapon as their primary weapon in a loadout without forcing them to equip the double primary weapon perk.

> It should be a 5sk with a 10 round mag. If that’s a problem, they can lower the RoF and increase the optimal RoF.
>
> But it’s not like I haven’t been talking about that since I heard that it was a 6sk earlier this year…

When i first read it was a 6SK, i tought it would be ok given its apparent plae in the sandbox. But now that it seems the magnum has a more central role in all CTF games, it doesnt seem to be enough.

They should just put it back to being 5SK. That level of damage output worked well enough in reach (bloom notwithstanding)

The reason I believe the Magnum is a 6sk is because the time it took you to drop the flag would put you about two shots down but if the Magnum is always out then there is no delay before you can fire so the kill time had to be extended in order to properly mimic the ramifications of Classic CTF.

> Something i dont get about the flagnum.
>
> 343i is talking about increasing its power so that a flag carrier has a decent chance 1v1 against a rifle. Surely the best way to do that is to make it a 5 SK instead of 6SK, which with an 8 round clip is a bit unforgiving.
>
> But then youve got like 2 different types of magnums in the game even though they look exactly the same, and we know from reach that having a gun that is the same gun but behaves differently (EG TU DMR vs normal DMR) is a recipe for confusion and discord, nothing good comes from it.
>
> So isnt it the logical conclusion here to just make the magnum into a 5SK overall, which would also boost the flagnum power by definition whilst keeping them identical in function, which means if you like playing CTF and running the flag, you can run with a magnum loadout in general play in order to get good with the gun in order to be ready once you get the flagnum.
>
> This would also go some way to alleviating the danger that the just magnum becomes another weapon which no one cares about, given the power of the rifles, yet still clearly demarcates it as a sidearm.
>
> I jut dont see how they could alter the characteristics of the flagnum alone without things getting unnecessarily confusing for normal magnum users. As i said, messsing with peoples muscle memory like this, ala Reach, is a bad idea.
>
> Also, anyone know if you can still use the zoom with the flagnum?

Magazine not clip.

OP i think this has been the only thing ive ever read of yours that i agree with.

I hope a 4sk/5sk flagnum with unlimited ammo wont lead to kill farming…