Fixing Halo ---> Part 2: Spartan Abilities

Yes, this includes sprint. While i have found some abilities useful, such as clamber, i mostly find them game-breaking. The point of an arena shooter is to make everyone start off equal and acquire better weapons that have been placed on the map, and 343 industries has added it in by making sure every player has it, but they should have taken it out completely. If they were really trying to return to the core of halo, then spartan abilities need to be removed. By allowing them to stay in the game, 343 is allowing players to take an unfair advantage over other players, by using the spartan abilities to run away from being killed, and waiting for an the opponent to walk past them and get killed. Halo 4 is a good example of this with sprint. I’ve witnessed my enemy running away from me like a coward, and in my journey to kill him, i get double teamed and at least get one of them. The others might say that Spartans are well, Spartans and should have been able to sprint since Halo CE. But to that i say nay. It is obvious that in the halo trilogy (Halo CE, 2,& 3) that the master chief and arbiter move faster than ODST’s , marines, grunts, and a many other allies/enemies. Sprinting would just prove that Spartan IV’s and later Spartans, really aren’t Spartans. About the others. Clamber is helpful, but have we forgotten about crouch jumping, or has 343 gotten rid of that. If my memory serves me correctly, then it should still be there. Thrusters are a cheap way out of a firefight to cover, the charge ability is an cheap way to take down an enemy without having to fire your weapon. Finally, this “Spartan Slam” ability seems highly fictitious to me. Also, it seems like a rip off of Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare’s Exo Stomp.

POST RECAP:
-Spartan abilities are game breaking
-Cheap way to get kills
-Sprinting is highly unnecessary
-Copying from COD

P.S. However this post is simply my opinion. I would like to hear yours. This is legendary, and I’ll see ya on the battlefield!

Yeah, but the Spartan abilities were teased before a gameplay video of CoD: AW was. It cannot possibly be copying, even if they are 80% similar in functionality.

teased for us yes, but maybe the devs already knew???

> 2533274959289805;3:
> teased for us yes, but maybe the devs already knew???

Does that make a difference? At all?

I find most of them fun. Nothing felt broken. The shoulder thrust is a bit off, but that can be fixed. And the slide was … unused. But other than those two, the rest were pretty fun. Which is completely subjective, but important to me.

When I picked up the controller to play, I enjoyed myself. So based solely on that, it’s a good game. Kinda like with food or music: regardless of what people with credible informed opinions may say about it, when I hear or taste it and enjoy it, it’s good.

But that’s about the extent of my views.

Also, about Chief and the Arbiter running faster than the marines in Halo 2: go try it. Try to get the rocket launcher from the marine on “Metropolis” and see how far down the bridge you get before you reach him.

Also part 2: Crouch jumping. They’re removing ground pound from the crouch button for this exact reason. It was mentioned in their blog. To preserve crouch jumping.

> 2533274883669557;4:
> > 2533274959289805;3:
> > teased for us yes, but maybe the devs already knew???
>
>
> Does that make a difference? At all?
>
> I find most of them fun. Nothing felt broken. The shoulder thrust is a bit off, but that can be fixed. And the slide was … unused. But other than those two, the rest were pretty fun. Which is completely subjective, but important to me.
>
> When I picked up the controller to play, I enjoyed myself. So based solely on that, it’s a good game. Kinda like with food or music: regardless of what people with credible informed opinions may say about it, when I hear or taste it and enjoy it, it’s good.
>
> But that’s about the extent of my views.
>
> Also, about Chief and the Arbiter running faster than the marines in Halo 2: go try it. Try to get the rocket launcher from the marine on “Metropolis” and see how far down the bridge you get before you reach him.
>
> Also part 2: Crouch jumping. They’re removing ground pound from the crouch button for this exact reason. It was mentioned in their blog. To preserve crouch jumping.

not saying i didn’t enjoy it

> 2533274959289805;1:
> Yes, this includes sprint. While i have found some abilities useful, such as clamber, i mostly find them game-breaking. **The point of an arena shooter is to make everyone start off equal and acquire better weapons that have been placed on the map…**and 343 industries has added it in by making sure every player has it, but they should have taken it out completely

Annnnnnnd how exactly do the spartan abilities stop equal starts or having weapons placed on the map…??? Especially when in your next sentence you acknowledge that everyone has them…

> 2533274959289805;1:
> If they were really trying to return to the core of halo, then spartan abilities need to be removed. By allowing them to stay in the game, 343 is allowing players to take an unfair advantage over other players, by using the spartan abilities to run away from being killed, and waiting for an the opponent to walk past them and get killed.

But if everyone has them then no one really has an unfair advantage…Sure you can argue whether or not they are good for game play but fact is you can still do everything everyone else can do you.

Regarding crouch jumping I believe they said that they will be remapping the “hovering” ability to allow for crouch jumping. Not that there will really be much point to doing it if they are going to keep the clamber.

> 2533274891597366;6:
> > 2533274959289805;1:
> > Yes, this includes sprint. While i have found some abilities useful, such as clamber, i mostly find them game-breaking. **The point of an arena shooter is to make everyone start off equal and acquire better weapons that have been placed on the map…**and 343 industries has added it in by making sure every player has it, but they should have taken it out completely
>
>
>
> Annnnnnnd how exactly do the spartan abilities stop equal starts or having weapons placed on the map…??? Especially when in your next sentence you acknowledge that everyone has them…
>
>
> > 2533274959289805;1:
> > If they were really trying to return to the core of halo, then spartan abilities need to be removed. By allowing them to stay in the game, 343 is allowing players to take an unfair advantage over other players, by using the spartan abilities to run away from being killed, and waiting for an the opponent to walk past them and get killed.
>
>
> But if everyone has them then no one really has an unfair advantage…Sure you can argue whether or not they are good for game play but fact is you can still do everything everyone else can do you.
>
> Regarding crouch jumping I believe they said that they will be remapping the “hovering” ability to allow for crouch jumping. Not that there will really be much point to doing it if they are going to keep the clamber.

your quote man. i love it

Equal starts are equal. If your enemy gets away before you could finish him, you engaged in a bad time or it just wasn’t meant to be. It’s hardly game breaking. With the TTK being so low, I only had one or two enemies escape me in the beta. And they were only able to sprint away because I missed easy shots and allowed them to get enough momentum to sprint away.

Halo had Armor Abilities before COD had exosuits. Who’s copying who?

> 2533275004372869;9:
> Halo had Armor Abilities before COD had exosuits. Who’s copying who?

The original AAs from Reach were based off of/influenced by perks from CoD.

Unnecessary fluff that prolongs and drags out the engagements and the game overall.

> 2533274846700578;10:
> > 2533275004372869;9:
> > Halo had Armor Abilities before COD had exosuits. Who’s copying who?
>
>
> The original AAs from Reach were based off of/influenced by perks from CoD.
>
> Unnecessary fluff that prolongs and drags out the engagements and the game overall.

Actually AA’s were an extension of Equipment as stated by Bungie

> 2533274846700578;10:
> > 2533275004372869;9:
> > Halo had Armor Abilities before COD had exosuits. Who’s copying who?
>
>
> The original AAs from Reach were based off of/influenced by perks from CoD.
>
> Unnecessary fluff that prolongs and drags out the engagements and the game overall.

I don’t remember cod perks letting me fly or shield myself.

to the op: the real problem that SAs have right now is that they separate combat and movement. I can’t thrust and shoot, or clamber and shoot, or sprint and shoot, this means that using them offensively is not as viable as using them defensively. This effectively takes power away from the player.

In in order to correct this, the philosophy needs to change, power needs to be given to the player.

thruster needs to not restrict shooting and have a shorter distance, making it more offensively viable, encouraging smarter, more skillful gameplay.

clamber shouldn’t restrict shooting either, but also shouldn’t force the player to look a certain direction. This gives power to the player and makes them more flexible, and not vulnerable.

Being able to engage a target that is behind you or beside you while climbing coupled with the modified thruster gives power to the player, helps place an importance on individual skill(like halo ce) instead of an emphasis on team shot like later games.

clamber slide ground pound and thruster have to go these are useful but they arent halo and 343 should fix the maps so clamber inst needed to get to higher places (note:i didn’t say sprint has to go because there’s no way 343 will remove it)

> 2533274929479318;12:
> > 2533274846700578;10:
> > > 2533275004372869;9:
> > > Halo had Armor Abilities before COD had exosuits. Who’s copying who?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The original AAs from Reach were based off of/influenced by perks from CoD.
> >
> > Unnecessary fluff that prolongs and drags out the engagements and the game overall.
>
>
>
> I don’t remember cod perks letting me fly or shield myself.
>
> to the op: the real problem that SAs have right now is that they separate combat and movement. I can’t thrust and shoot, or clamber and shoot, or sprint and shoot, this means that using them offensively is not as viable as using them defensively. This effectively takes power away from the player.
>
> In in order to correct this, the philosophy needs to change, power needs to be given to the player.
>
> thruster needs to not restrict shooting and have a shorter distance, making it more offensively viable, encouraging smarter, more skillful gameplay.
>
> clamber shouldn’t restrict shooting either, but also shouldn’t force the player to look a certain direction. This gives power to the player and makes them more flexible, and not vulnerable.
>
> Being able to engage a target that is behind you or beside you while climbing coupled with the modified thruster gives power to the player, helps place an importance on individual skill(like halo ce) instead of an emphasis on team shot like later games.

Explain to me how someone could clamber and shoot at the same time. Last I checked it takes one arm to pull the spartan up and the other to hold the gun. How are you supposed to shoot while doing this? Be able to look the other way? Then how are you going to clamber? Clamber takes like a split second to pull off. I don’t see how this takes power away from the player. If you’re being chased or shot at from behind, why would you clamber in the first place? If you’re caught in the moment where you decide to try and clamber then you already lose that engagement because you were vulnerable and shot at to begin with. Sprinting and shooting is “game breaking”.

It sounds like you want to be able to perform all abilities with no penalty to the player. That simply can’t be the case. To shoot while sprinting and then chained to using the thruster and shooting going back into sprinting and clambering and shooting is ridiculous. People think H5 is a game of “cat and mouse” now, being able to do this would break the game. Imagine the map sizes if everyone was always sprinting and thrusting and shooting with no penalty to the player. This sounds more like a COD clone rather than how 343i is incorporating the mechanics to work in the Halo sandbox.

> 2533274823601925;14:
> > 2533274929479318;12:
> > > 2533274846700578;10:
> > > > 2533275004372869;9:
> > > > Halo had Armor Abilities before COD had exosuits. Who’s copying who?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The original AAs from Reach were based off of/influenced by perks from CoD.
> > >
> > > Unnecessary fluff that prolongs and drags out the engagements and the game overall.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I don’t remember cod perks letting me fly or shield myself.
> >
> > to the op: the real problem that SAs have right now is that they separate combat and movement. I can’t thrust and shoot, or clamber and shoot, or sprint and shoot, this means that using them offensively is not as viable as using them defensively. This effectively takes power away from the player.
> >
> > In in order to correct this, the philosophy needs to change, power needs to be given to the player.
> >
> > thruster needs to not restrict shooting and have a shorter distance, making it more offensively viable, encouraging smarter, more skillful gameplay.
> >
> > clamber shouldn’t restrict shooting either, but also shouldn’t force the player to look a certain direction. This gives power to the player and makes them more flexible, and not vulnerable.
> >
> > Being able to engage a target that is behind you or beside you while climbing coupled with the modified thruster gives power to the player, helps place an importance on individual skill(like halo ce) instead of an emphasis on team shot like later games.
>
>
>
>
> Explain to me how someone could clamber and shoot at the same time. Last I checked it takes one arm to pull the spartan up and the other to hold the gun. How are you supposed to shoot while doing this? Be able to look the other way? Then how are you going to clamber?
> **You could simply change the climbing animation to a short thruster up and over animation, or a step up.**Clamber takes like a split second to pull off. I don’t see how this takes power away from the player. If you’re being chased or shot at from behind, why would you clamber in the first place? If you’re caught in the moment where you decide to try and clamber then you already lose that engagement because you were vulnerable and shot at to begin with. Sprinting and shooting is “game breaking”.
>
> Never brought up sprinting and shooting, I want sprint gone entirely, and you’re demonstrating the thing wrong with clamber, it’s move or fight, rather than fight and move, try to explain how shooting and clambering is actually a bad thing, crouch jumping is exactly that. If The player can’t be offensive all the time, they’re going to be defensive more than they should leading to shallow gameplay. It sounds like you want to be able to perform all abilities with no penalty to the player. That simply can’t be the case. To shoot while sprinting and then chained to using the thruster and shooting going back into sprinting and clambering and shooting is ridiculous.
>
> only a good player would be able to actually get a kill while chaining People think H5 is a game of “cat and mouse” now, being able to do this would break the game.
>
> How so? I’ll say this, it wouldn’t make the game cat and mouse anymoreImagine the map sizes if everyone was always sprinting and thrusting and shooting with no penalty to the player. This sounds more like a COD clone rather than how 343i is incorporating the mechanics to work in the Halo sandbox.
>
> No, maps are increased because the player is traveling distances faster than normal, it doesn’t have anything to do with the ability to shoot or not, whether or not I can shoot when thrusting doesn’t change the distance it covers, which is small to begin with and keep in mind the cool down time. Thruster is not an influence on maps to begin with. You also didn’t explain how any of this game breaking, or why movement needs to be penalized At all, you do realize that arena shooters are built upon movement combat being one thing right? This is literally how it was for the first 3 halo games.

> 2533274929479318;15:
> > 2533274823601925;14:
> > > 2533274929479318;12:
> > > > 2533274846700578;10:
> > > > > 2533275004372869;9:
> > > > > Halo had Armor Abilities before COD had exosuits. Who’s copying who?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The original AAs from Reach were based off of/influenced by perks from CoD.
> > > >
> > > > Unnecessary fluff that prolongs and drags out the engagements and the game overall.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I don’t remember cod perks letting me fly or shield myself.
> > >
> > > to the op: the real problem that SAs have right now is that they separate combat and movement. I can’t thrust and shoot, or clamber and shoot, or sprint and shoot, this means that using them offensively is not as viable as using them defensively. This effectively takes power away from the player.
> > >
> > > In in order to correct this, the philosophy needs to change, power needs to be given to the player.
> > >
> > > thruster needs to not restrict shooting and have a shorter distance, making it more offensively viable, encouraging smarter, more skillful gameplay.
> > >
> > > clamber shouldn’t restrict shooting either, but also shouldn’t force the player to look a certain direction. This gives power to the player and makes them more flexible, and not vulnerable.
> > >
> > > Being able to engage a target that is behind you or beside you while climbing coupled with the modified thruster gives power to the player, helps place an importance on individual skill(like halo ce) instead of an emphasis on team shot like later games.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > You could simply change the climbing animation to a short thruster up and over animation, or a step up.
> > On truth when inside red or blue base you think a step up would work? You want to be able to thrust up now? So essentially a double jump like in COD:AW.
> >
> > Never brought up sprinting and shooting, I want sprint gone entirely, and you’re demonstrating the thing wrong with clamber, it’s move or fight, rather than fight and move, try to explain how shooting and clambering is actually a bad thing. If The player can’t be offensive all the time, they’re going to be defensive more than they should leading to shallow gameplay.
> > You said , "I can’t thrust and shoot, or clamber and shoot, or sprint and shoot". Clamber isn’t meant to replace crouch jumping (maybe it was at first, but now that it’ll be back in the final release) so you have two ways to perform your jumps which is giving power to the player. In all of the Halos, a player was never offensive all the time. You have to choose which stance you want to take. While I played the beta, there wasn’t any “shallow gameplay”. There was constant action going on and nothing felt drawn out or stalled.
> >
> > only a good player would be able to actually get a kill while chaining
> > So anyone who plays COD is a good player?
> >
> > How so? I’ll say this, it wouldn’t make the game cat and mouse anymore
> > Explain how it wouldn’t.
> >
> > Lol what?! map size wouldn’t be influenced at all, how could you possibly think that? You also didn’t explain how any of this game breaking, or why movement needs to be penalized At all, you do realize that arena shooters are built upon movement combat being one thing right? This is literally how it was for the first 3 halo games.
> > Maps would have to increase in size and the amount of open space if all players can infinitely sprint and shoot at the same time. Performing actions/abilities in the game that benefit the player yet don’t have any risks/penalties associated to them can break the game. Think about a player sprinting around wielding the shotgun. They basically can sprint then 1 shot you and run away in a fluid motion. Does that sound fair? No. Halo still has movement combat. You have the choice of sprinting, thrusting etc. You don’t have to use those and can still play the game the same way. You also have tactical combat.

> 2533274823601925;16:
> > 2533274929479318;15:
> > > 2533274823601925;14:
> > > > 2533274929479318;12:
> > > > > 2533274846700578;10:
> > > > > > 2533275004372869;9:
> > > > > > Halo had Armor Abilities before COD had exosuits. Who’s copying who?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The original AAs from Reach were based off of/influenced by perks from CoD.
> > > > >
> > > > > Unnecessary fluff that prolongs and drags out the engagements and the game overall.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I don’t remember cod perks letting me fly or shield myself.
> > > >
> > > > to the op: the real problem that SAs have right now is that they separate combat and movement. I can’t thrust and shoot, or clamber and shoot, or sprint and shoot, this means that using them offensively is not as viable as using them defensively. This effectively takes power away from the player.
> > > >
> > > > In in order to correct this, the philosophy needs to change, power needs to be given to the player.
> > > >
> > > > thruster needs to not restrict shooting and have a shorter distance, making it more offensively viable, encouraging smarter, more skillful gameplay.
> > > >
> > > > clamber shouldn’t restrict shooting either, but also shouldn’t force the player to look a certain direction. This gives power to the player and makes them more flexible, and not vulnerable.
> > > >
> > > > Being able to engage a target that is behind you or beside you while climbing coupled with the modified thruster gives power to the player, helps place an importance on individual skill(like halo ce) instead of an emphasis on team shot like later games.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > You could simply change the climbing animation to a short thruster up and over animation, or a step up.
> > > On truth when inside red or blue base you think a step up would work? You want to be able to thrust up now? So essentially a double jump like in COD:AW.
> > >
> > > no not a double jump, it’s an animation at the press of a button, just take the one we have now and allow me to shoot while doing it, and not have to look at the ledge while doing it, and add a thruster sound effect, basically you’d float over a ledge.
> > >
> > > Never brought up sprinting and shooting, I want sprint gone entirely, and you’re demonstrating the thing wrong with clamber, it’s move or fight, rather than fight and move, try to explain how shooting and clambering is actually a bad thing. If The player can’t be offensive all the time, they’re going to be defensive more than they should leading to shallow gameplay.
> > > You said , “I can’t thrust and shoot, or clamber and shoot, or sprint and shoot”. Clamber isn’t meant to replace crouch jumping (maybe it was at first, but now that it’ll be back in the final release) so you have two ways to perform your jumps which is giving power to the player. In all of the Halos, a player was never offensive all the time. You have to choose which stance you want to take. While I played the beta, there wasn’t any “shallow gameplay”. There was constant action going on and nothing felt drawn out or
> > > Right, you can’t shoot and sprint, I’m not saying you should, I want sprint removed. There aren’t really two different ways to jump in reality, there are two ways of jumping that accomplish literally the same thing, accept one weakens you while the other empowers you. That’s what’s called redundancy, not empowerment, it would empower the player if they acted the same but didn’t accomplish the same goal, making clamber more flexible like I’ve stated adds fluidity to movement and combat, while having skill jumps that can’t be clambered gives purpose to crouch jumping or GP floating making them valuable and much more skillful tools that raise the skill gap. And yes the player was offensive all the time, I guess you missed the part where the player could shoot at all times, they had the power to be offensive at any given time. Also brilliant anecdote, it’s not an argument, just because you never experienced shallow gameplay doesn’t mean that others didn’t due to the nature of the mechanics that are in the game.
> > >
> > > only a good player would be able to actually get a kill while chaining
> > > So anyone who plays COD is a good player?
> > > anyone who has good aim, coordination, and map awareness, will use it to its max effectiveness, get cod out of your head
> > >
> > > How so? I’ll say this, it wouldn’t make the game cat and mouse anymore
> > > Explain how it wouldn’t.
> > > because players wouldn’t be encouraged to run away, the problem is that all these abilities are more practical defensively than offensively, taking way needless restrictions encourages players to be smarter, and fight instead of flee, speeding up the game.
> > >
> > > Lol what?! map size wouldn’t be influenced at all, how could you possibly think that? You also didn’t explain how any of this game breaking, or why movement needs to be penalized At all, you do realize that arena shooters are built upon movement combat being one thing right? This is literally how it was for the first 3 halo games.
> > > Maps would have to increase in size and the amount of open space if all players can infinitely sprint and shoot at the same time. Performing actions/abilities in the game that benefit the player yet don’t have any risks/penalties associated to them can break the game. Think about a player sprinting around wielding the shotgun. They basically can sprint then 1 shot you and run away in a fluid motion. Does that sound fair? No. Halo still has movement combat. You have the choice of sprinting, thrusting etc. You don’t have to use those and can still play the game the same way. You also have tactical combat.
> > > FORGET ABOUT SPRINT, I DONT WANT IT IN THE GAME. Taking it away shrinks down the maps, because scaling is based on distance traveled not whether or not I can shoot, thruster already has a cool down time, and a small radius, adding the ability to shoot doesn’t increase map size at all. you’re not getting it, the player literally can’t be offensively capable at all times, meaning when I sprint, I can’t shoot, or when I thruster I can’t shoot. It’s shoot or move, that’s a fact. I want thruster and clamber to not restrict that because it actually benefits the game by placing importance on individual skill, and encouraging the player to fight and move at the same time, you know, like halo ce, 2 and 3.

I had something typed out, but commenting broke so I’m just going to leave it at this.

I’m going to buy Halo 5. I’ve played the whole series. Playing H3 the most. The spartan abilities don’t strike me as a bad thing. The beta was fun and skillful when in gold to pro ranks.

> 2533274823601925;18:
> I had something typed out, but commenting broke so I’m just going to leave it at this.
>
> I’m going to buy Halo 5. I’ve played the whole series. Playing H3 the most. The spartan abilities don’t strike me as a bad thing. The beta was fun and skillful when in gold to pro ranks.

I’m not going to say the game is bad, or that the abilities(besides sprint and smart scope) are inherently flawed, or don’t take skill to use as is, my point is that, halo combat used to have the philosophy of run AND gun, not run OR gun, the way the abilities have been implemented change that philosophy even though it’s not necessary or in the games best interest. You brought up before how that would be like cod, but I disagree because it’s already like cod in that regard, in AW, sprinting, thrusting, climbing and sliding all restrict combat without the appropriate perks. Besides, we shouldn’t worry about what other games are doing, if there is something that works in halo but exists in another game, I’d say do it anyway because it would further the gameplay.

I agree that the abilities are not a bad thing and that the game can be fun and skillful, I’m saying it can do all of that better than it currently is.

> 2533274929479318;19:
> > 2533274823601925;18:
> > I had something typed out, but commenting broke so I’m just going to leave it at this.
> >
> > I’m going to buy Halo 5. I’ve played the whole series. Playing H3 the most. The spartan abilities don’t strike me as a bad thing. The beta was fun and skillful when in gold to pro ranks.
>
>
> I’m not going to say the game is bad, or that the abilities(besides sprint and smart scope) are inherently flawed, or don’t take skill to use as is, my point is that, halo combat used to have the philosophy of run AND gun, not run OR gun, the way the abilities have been implemented change that philosophy even though it’s not necessary or in the games best interest. You brought up before how that would be like cod, but I disagree because it’s already like cod in that regard, in AW, sprinting, thrusting, climbing and sliding all restrict combat without the appropriate perks. Besides, we shouldn’t worry about what other games are doing, if there is something that works in halo but exists in another game, I’d say do it anyway because it would further the gameplay.
>
> I agree that the abilities are not a bad thing and that the game can be fun and skillful, I’m saying it can do all of that better than it currently is.

There is no way to really make things like sprint or smart scope (which is basically the same as previous halos give or take some weapons perform an ads view) require skill to use as in pressing a button. I guess it just comes down to how you use these abilities now since everyone has them and things are back to equal starts and equal mechanics. I think 343 could get rid of clambering and sliding and replace with your mentioned higher jump. I barely used slide, but I guess the more skillful players will use that mechanic to their advantage. I hope 343 will tweak thruster to shoot while doing so. I swear i thought you were able to in the beta, but I guess not.