Five facts about Halo Wars

Games Other Halo
1

Hello!
(^_^)

So, I’ve played enough matches to draw some conclusions on Halo Wars. Enjoy!

  1. UNSC is OP in 3v3
    Yeah, don’t deny it. The Covenant can only win by putting pressure on the opponent. However, the UNSC has just too many defensive abilities to be ever really under pressure. More over, since most players play UNSC, you’re always facing two or three opponents on your own when attacking early - which puts YOU under pressure and hopelessly cripples you. Since you were the last to post something here, I’ll call you out, Manatee, hope you don’t mind! (^_-) I tried your strategy in every single way possible, but it seems you’re playing a different game. UNSC fends off any pressure with ease. And that means loss for Covenant, as UNSC is plain stronger.

  2. Rock, scissors, paper - eh, what?
    Interesting idea Ensemble came up with there - only that it doesn’t work. Tanks are god tier, Wolverines counter everything and Cobras aren’t even needed. Where’s that system? Oh, right, the Covenant has it - only that UNSC’s units counter it with their Y-abilities. And that while they are so specialized they actually need those counters. Great concept!

  3. Scouts OR: Episode IV - A new Genkhis Khan
    I’m referring to “Age of Empires” here. Halo Wars could be considered part 4, right? (^_^) Well, I believe, in AoE2, the Mongols’ scouts were also abused as early rushers. Was that concept really so fun that Ensemble decided to bring it back with Warthogs? And who was that genius who decided the Covenant - those that are highly specialised and need scouting - have only ONE FRAIL scout for the whole match? I’d like to give him a cookie. Wait. No.

  4. Bugs, glitches, mysteries - The HW X-Files
    Okay, we all know about the Arbiter’s glitches and the Kamikaze Grunt’s and canny shots and so on. However, I have witnessed so many instances now where me and my Covenant (I’m usually Covy) ally did the same things - but I always had way less resources. Is this lag? Conspiration? Someone got Mulder’s number? (0.0) And I swear, sometimes, my units aren’t putting out as much damage as they should. This sounds like whining, but… You know, when you start seeing a scheme here, repeatedly, something is probably up. Also, I like the X-Files. Don’t you?

  5. The community is… Interesting?
    You know, you hear so much bad stuff about the shooter genre out there, how rude we shooter gamers are, how aggressive, how narrow-minded, etc… Well, I have to say, I have never met such an amount of hate like in this game here. Some people take the game wayyy to seriously, and wow. Just wow. I believe, all Halo shooter games together, starting with CE, there were less haters and insulters and trash talkers in all of those shooter games than in my rather medium amount of HW games. Not saying there aren’t nice people out there, especially in this forum (the few that are still left), but overall, I have to say - Wow! (o_O)

So, what do we learn from this?
Heh, I dunno. One must really applaud Ensemble for that last work they did. You cannot deny they actually brought a working (yet imbalanced) RTS to console. It’s a shame they were put out so early, because the game needs a lot of fixes still.
For HW2, they better take things slowly and carefully. Make the units and differences between factions less exotic to begin with. With time (if given) they can start making the game more complex, step by step, but always hand in hand with the community’s suggestions.
sigh
I deleted HW for the third and final time from my HDD. I deleted it for the first time years ago, when I owned the disc and was fed up with the balancing. I deleted it for the second time a few days ago, because I realized nothing had changed. And when I was trying to give it one last shot, playing Anders more (who is OP as hell in 3v3, by the way), I realized how uninteresting and boring this is. I really wish support hadn’t been cut so early, because I really like RTSes and I would really like to like HW - but I just can’t endure this game any more.

So here’s my conclusion and message:
Please, 343, MS - take your time for HW2, give the developers the resources and work with the community! RTS is still a niche on console, and the devoted fans still keep that game alive. The money you spend on developing the new HW2 WILL pay off! Make HW2 outstanding!
d(^_^)

That’s it, I’m out!
Have a nice day, everyone!
(^.^)

2

> More over, since most players play UNSC, you’re always facing two or three opponents on your own when attacking early - which puts YOU under pressure and hopelessly cripples you.

Sounds like you’re talking about UA. In UA I’ll take UNSC over covey most of the time as the only real thing covey has late game is sac banshees. Whenever I make a suggestion about these kinds of things keep in mind I’m talking about party teams, where your team is actually working together, unlike the -Yoink- that UAs is.

Infantry is supposed to beat air… until the air flies away from it lol. Forget about cobras and hunters are bad (in 3s at least) as UNSC fight tanks with tanks, any coveys should try and support you with banshees.

I’d love to tell you that you’re wrong here, I really would but there’s an anders on crevice that just got 5 minute gauss and is handing me my -Yoink-. Gauss is honestly the most OP unit in the game, the only reason that UNSC builds nothing but gauss every game is because canny tanks beat them and PT laughs at them.

It doesn’t even stop at glitches, the lack of symmetry on some maps can help decide a game (frozen/terminal best examples). Arby rage glitch is a glitch, but considering most people above 35 ts know how to do it and simply allows you to run faster and not attack air units it’s not a big deal. Same thing with canny glitch, if you’re building infantry against tanks you deserve to lose anyway.

I’ll just leave this one alone.

Halo Wars is definitely unbalanced but it also sounds like most of your experience with it is in UA, which I make a point to avoid since it’s just that awful. I find party teams a lot more entertaining as instead of flaring his base like a madman, since he’s getting pushed and didn’t build any units yet (at like 10 minutes into the game) your teammate(s) actually cooperate with you.

3

Yup, I’m playing normal 3v3, with randoms. Most people play UNSC there, it’s usually 2 Covies and 4 UNSCs. And since Covie is weak end-game, which those matches always reach, it’s really a bit unfair. If you have a three Covies versus three UNSCs matchup, it’s more inetersting, though! Or all UNSC! All Covie were actually extremely rare games for me, have experienced that maybe three times? But they were my absolute favrorites, because they need real strategic thought. UNSC has everything in the vehicle depot and the SoF’s circle menu, but Covenant must prepare more carefully!
d(^_^)

Yup, that’s exactly what I told a general in chat when we were playing on Deen. He said I should pay attention to Marines, and I replied they can’t beat my Hornets. He said “but infantry beats air!” and I replied “You can’t beat something you can’t hit - I’ll just fly away and destroy buildings!”.
Cobras are just not needed. As you said, PT is the only weapon against Hogs, and since Scorpions are weak to literally nothing, they are a better choice than Cobras which must fear air and Hunters. Speaking of which, Hunters have served me VERY well against Scorpions and Hogs. But as soon as the Covenant’s air or Hornets or ODST enter the fray, it’s game over for me. Not being able to at least HIT air is incredibly unfair compared to Wolverines which counter everything.
=/
Banshees… Those are the units that behave weird for me. I read and watched vids and read even more about how two Banshees should beat a tank - mine don’t. I need three for one tank, and my Banshees never make it out alive. And those two Summits for massing them hurts my economy. Mine also suck at destroying buildings. And at some point, Wolverines and Vampires show up, there’s nothing I can do in a 3v3. I can’t check three players alone, so Banshees don’t work. Any idea?

Not only Gauss is OP (but OP as hell!), it’s the ability to destroy buildings early, the movability and the anti-leader-ram and crate gathering control. They summarize everything that I believe is wrong with UNSC: so many abilities, and instant win if reached a point (in this situation: Gauss). Hogs should lose the ram ability with a gunner in the back, and they should not have the Gauss upgrade.

Well, it’s mostly for Hunters. As if they weren’t bad enough for a hard counter. But they barely turn the tables, but more stall it. Ten Hunters against five tanks means that only one hunter will emerge alive - not enough to attack further, weak to air and everything else, not worth the two Halls you needed for fast production, and only alive if the canny didn’t hit hard. Two tanks alive and no Hunter, if canny worked, and two tanks against no enemy units means your bases are dead - and the two Scorps HEAL! Hunters don’t (Engineers belong in the base!).
Map balancing is… Hah, why don’t developers argue so much about it? Every map must be completely symmetrical! It’s not boring, it’s competitive!

Haha, yeah, better leave it with that! As always, there are good people, no doubt, but the bad ones stick to your memory, and I’ve seen so many in HW. Maybe it’s because of the genre. Tested blood pressure with a gang of gamers in school quite a while back. Was a school project. Interestingly, strategy games skyrocketed our pressures. Not shooters, as you would think!
Curious, isn’t it?
(0.0)

4

> Tested blood pressure with a gang of gamers in school quite a while back. Was a school project. Interestingly, strategy games skyrocketed our pressures. Not shooters, as you would think!
> Curious, isn’t it?
> (0.0)

I can believe that. after all, you are running logistics through your head while multi tasking instead of just running out and shooting stuff. plus the more time spent in one good match, the more you want to win. increased competition is more pressure

5

Hm, probably. Losing a half-hour game surely is bitter.

I should add to the list that Spartans and Warthogs completely break the game, especially Warthogs. People always go on about how the Arbiter was OP, but I just had a game where three “anti-air” Wolverines oneshotted my Arbiter.
(-_-)
And don’t get me started on Warthogs. That pesky unit should be kicked from the game, completely. Annihilates any Ghost scouts with ease and gathers all crates, being four Warthogs for one Ghost. Puts you under serious pressure with Gunner and soft-counters the only useful covie unit Banshee, and Gauss rules everything except Scorpions.

I really hoped someone like Manatee or Leonighdus (who seems to be a real veteran) jumped into this thread and could disprove my rants about the game, but… Instead I got confirmed. If 343 had used the chance to announce HW2, I would have looked forward, but you know what? They obviously don’t care about HW, and I can’t endure this… abomination of a pseudo-RTS any longer. No HW2 for me, if it ever comes. Switching to StarCraft now.

P.S.:
Errr, maybe I should elaborate. I think HW isn’t completely bad, and I’ve had some great games there. But if a RTS forces you into one single strategy, and the class you play is inferior no matter what you do, with no chance to make up for it by better tactics, the game becomes depressing. It’s a pity considering it could be balanced and made fun, and the fans are there, but…
sigh

6

Unfortunately playing in random 3v3 is almost never going to be an accurate representation of how the game is played. Lack of cooperation alone makes the playlist crap, not to mention that so many people seem to think that nobody should attack them within the first 12 minutes, rushing -Yoinks!-!

When playing in party teams there are still glitches and map imbalances that are present. Most of the glitches do not break the game, and simply alter the usefulness or viability of a unit (chickenwing rage is an example). Unit imbalances are nowhere near as problematic, assuming you know what units to build. Gauss while still OP is no longer an instant in any situation, as with a coordinated effort, and tanks/arby they can disposed of while losing minimal units.

My point is that you’re basing the entire game of HW off of your experience in UA, which would make anyone (including myself) want to scream.

7

“Chickenwing Rage”…
xD

Well, what can I say? 1v1 is just not as spectacular. Most players are in the 3v3 playlist, so that IS the representation of Halo Wars.
=/

And I think the balancing issues are more prominent in 3v3. Alone the fact that I, as Covie, have to hit a very small time window, turns the table. If there was one UNSC enemy alone, I could deny tech three Wolverines. But like this, there is always going to be a second army of Wolverines waiting for me. My team sure doesn’t help me, because they’re UNSC and tech the hell out of the game.
And know what’s even more “motivating”? Even when my Banshees succeed and lock down an enemy, I can’t finish them, only keep them checked. Normally, I would overpower them short time later, but what happens is that my team’s fully upgraded Spartanks roll in, destroy anything in seconds, because UNSC units are OP as hell, and I end up getting second at best, usually third place after the game, because some Banshees bited the dust. All the effort for lousy 400 points per game, if at all.

sigh
I could go on and on. The game is imbalanced, not strategic and downright broken.
(-_-)p

8

I’ve never played starcraft but since that’s one of the more popular RTSs I’ll use it as an example. If you played a 3v3 game of starcraft with people you didn’t know, who didn’t talk to you, and most likely didn’t have a clue how to play the game effectively don’t you think that might not be an honest representation of the game’s strategy. Cooperation is an integral part of any team based strategy game, so basing all of your arguments about what is broken in the game and what isn’t off of UA is foolish.

9

The difference lies in the balancing, not the team aspect (which is of course, alwaysa problematic, you’re right).

Though the Protoss and Terrans in SC have a bit more focus on defense, the Zerg don’t have to rush to win games, for example. But in HW, I just feel punished for choosing Covie, because I know I’m only useful before tech three, and that is negated by the fact that I usually have to take on two enemies at once then. As soon as Wolvs, Cannies and Gausses enter the field, I can at best support my team a bit. That’s due to the lack of strong mid-endgame units. Probably SC’s closest equivalent, the Zerg, stay useful throughout the game. They have their strengths in early Zerglings and Hydras, but those units stay useful over the course of the game. Well, Hydras, at least.

I really think Ensemble made the races too different, so we have that unbalanced mess now. If the Covenant had a few more useful stronger units, you could actually wait for your UNSC allies to prepare, so you can push together. But again, I can’t wait as Covenant. So typically, I draw short.
Oh, and what’s up with UNSC base HP? I mean, it’s ridiculous. I build up my Arby first, immediately send him to the expansion base on Exile, and I can’t do jack against it. This is the only strategy game in the world that allows you to expand without having to cover it. That’s just bad. Conversely, if ->I<- build up a second base -SURPRIZE!!!- Hogs. SHREDDING my base. Great.
facepalm

I really tried to like this game, and it’s close. Just… A little balancing. Just a little. Please…
(>_<)

10

Apart from suicide banshees, the covey does not have much in the way of good tech 3 units. However in party teams this is irrelevant as covey usually never goes tech 3, as the game has either already ended in your favor, or the money they would use for tech 3, is being used for more units instead. Covey often does fall into more of a support role, so without a coordinated effort, you are at a disadvantage.

If you are only playing in UAs and want to play as arby (worst covey for it imo) then you either need to learn how to use banshees, or expect to lose a lot. Suicide banshees are arguably one of the best units in the game, they beat gauss if you use them correctly, they’re faster than every other unit, and frankly the only thing that beats them is vamps and dual launcher wolves, both of which they are faster than (stasis is a pain though).

11

Dude just get a few teammates and start playing party teams!

12

So we can agree Covie could use a few better endgame units? I think the Factory is largely ignored by players, why not make the Wraith and Ghost on par with Scorpion and Warthog? Would probably solve everything.
I don’t want to have to have a team. I could go on a LAN, then. XBL is such a success because you can just hop straight into the action. And I think it’s up to the developers to keep that in mind.
=/

13

Wraiths have a lower build time and cost, not to mention covy units are supposed to be weaker unit for unit compared to UNSC due to population difference. So making wraiths on par with scorpions will just make the covey OP, especially once you add in that banshees > hornets against vehicles. So yes covey vehicles are next to worthless since scorpions outclass wraiths, but UNSC air is next to worthless as banshees outclass hornets.

Once again this merely highlights the need for cooperation, it does you no good as a covey to build vehicles or infantry as any UNSCs on your team have better ground units. Likewise it does your UNSCs no good to build air as banshees are better than hornets. On top of that covey is stronger in the early game, while UNSC tends to be more powerful into the mid and late game, at which point covey serves more of a support role. That’s why when in a coordinated, in 2v2 or 3v3 you almost never go double/triple covey or double/triple UNSC as it often creates weaknesses.

That being said I actually really like running double covey in 2v2 as arby/brute is a rather good combo. Without a UNSC though you are weak in the late game, and certain maps (laby/crevice) can be difficult to win, while other maps (beasley’s/terminal) are great for it.

The way the game is set up short of making the covey and UNSCs units virtually the same, UAs is going to have issues with functioning as fluidly as 2v2 or 3v3 party teams, as you can’t choose or even know what leaders your team will have, what units they’ll build, or what strategy they’re going to use. To play 2v2 party teams you would need one other person, 3v3 would require two. If you have nobody on your friends list for it, you could try searching here for teammates.

14

> Unfortunately playing in random 3v3 is almost never going to be an accurate representation of how the game is played. <mark>Lack of cooperation alone makes the playlist crap</mark>, not to mention that so many people seem to think that nobody should attack them within the first 12 minutes, rushing -Yoinks!-!
>
> When playing in party teams there are still glitches and map imbalances that are present. Most of the glitches do not break the game, and simply alter the usefulness or viability of a unit (chickenwing rage is an example). Unit imbalances are nowhere near as problematic, assuming you know what units to build. Gauss while still OP is no longer an instant in any situation, as with a coordinated effort, and tanks/arby they can disposed of while losing minimal units.
>
> My point is that you’re basing the entire game of HW off of your experience in UA, which would make anyone (including myself) want to scream.

There is too much lag to even get a good 3v3 game going.

15

> > Unfortunately playing in random 3v3 is almost never going to be an accurate representation of how the game is played. <mark>Lack of cooperation alone makes the playlist crap</mark>, not to mention that so many people seem to think that nobody should attack them within the first 12 minutes, rushing -Yoinks!-!
> >
> > When playing in party teams there are still glitches and map imbalances that are present. Most of the glitches do not break the game, and simply alter the usefulness or viability of a unit (chickenwing rage is an example). Unit imbalances are nowhere near as problematic, assuming you know what units to build. Gauss while still OP is no longer an instant in any situation, as with a coordinated effort, and tanks/arby they can disposed of while losing minimal units.
> >
> > My point is that you’re basing the entire game of HW off of your experience in UA, which would make anyone (including myself) want to scream.
>
> There is too much lag to even get a good 3v3 game going.

In nearly 3300 games of halo wars I have experienced problems with crippling lag in only a handful of them. More than likely it’s either your connection or the connection of someone else in the game.

16

I’ll throw in my 2 cents about this.

IMO, UNSC is not op at all in 3v3. Aside from on Exile where cutter can expo early without worrying to much, the game arguably is in the covie players favor for the first 3-4 minutes if not more. This is because HW rewards offensive play over defense and covie players are a much larger threat early on. Which IMO is the most important phase of the game. The amount of resources and effort needed for a covie player to disrupt the UNSC is minimal.

Early game on Fort Deen and Frozen Valley Brute Chiefs can apply pressure relatively easy against a UNSC player. Temple first or second and drop some brutes in and a unprepared player is already in trouble. To deter or stop the brute rush you’d need to have either already expected it and have a turret or two, or flamers ready. In which case you’ve already crippled yourself. 500 resources is alot early game and if I forced you to spend that much with just one free leader and 1 brute squad then that’s a decent victory. I can simply attack someone else. If your Cutter or Anders and had the basic 3/4 hogs out already…when are are rushed you have a choice. Either waste time driving your hogs to your opponents base try to camp the rushing brutes portal and hope there isn’t a turret or duke it out at your base. In which case it comes down to whose the better player.

The Arby’s job against UNSC is to stop early expos and hogs. Grunts don’t do to much to UNSC buildings. But 2/3 Maps require either hogs, marines, or a tank to clear the rebels out and build. You will not be able to stop a good arby who guards your expos without overwhelming force. As someone who mains the arby a good 70% of the time there are plenty of times I’ve punished a UNSC player trying to expand. Early game as an arby I see 1 of 3 things generally happen vs UNSC.

  1. UNSC makes hogs or marines. Starts clearing a base, I scout with my ghost and see which base. Run to it with my arby and kill the units clearing the base. Most of the time it happens to fast for a UNSC player to react and even if they do drop a D-bomb by the time it hits they’ve lost half if not more of their units. So I can either escape easily and come back with some banshees or just move out of range. If you don’t kill the arby you just wasted 450 and lost your main defense against the rage. Even if you do it takes way longer for a D-bomb to come back than it does to build another leader.

  2. Forge with tanks trying to clear an expo. If it’s a single tank I can probably kill it. But 2 or 3 will probably force a recall if a D-bomb is dropped. But because Forge is somewhat a slow leader it wont take long for me produce enough banshees to push. As long as I can make away from the tanks I’ll be the one with the advantage.

  3. Spartans clearing bases trying to get stars. In which case, lol. Easy xp for me and a loss of 900 or more for you. And you get no expo.

Another note; covie scouts play a different role. Choppers bully no gunner hogs away from resources while ghost should just be used to camp any cleared base for attempts to build. Yeah hogs are probably the best and most versatile unit but the chopper and ghost are also quite useful.

Most players in 3v3 seem to prefer UNSC half the time there is only one or two covies out of the 6 players. But I’ve noticed more times than not if it’s 5 unsc and 1 covie, or 2 covie the team with the covie usually wins. This is of course assuming everyone in the game is relativity around the same skill level. And there are always exceptions.

TL;DR, Covie are better off in 3v3 cause they have a better tech 1 early game advantage. They can rush or stop expos with much less effort than UNSC and banshees are just to overpowering. Yes wolves counter them but require tech 3, while all I need to build banshees is a temple or a reactor hook. They are so cheap and fast for only 200. And arby eats wolves for breakfast. While to get gauss effectively you’d need a third base. Covie players should never late a game reach past mid point if possible. All that’s usually needed is 1 UNSC player to mop up with tanks and gemlins or hogs and provide support. Most of what I’m saying applies to UA play. If I’m the only covie on my team then my goal is to stop early hogs/expos, force as much flamers and wolves from UNSC as possible. Or get vamps asap if it’s VS 2 covie.

Either way sad to see another Wars player leave hope you come back. :wink:

17

OP, these aren’t really facts, they’re opinions =P

Halo Wars is not a “balanced” game, and it has a lot of glitches but you know what? It’s a fun game! I also dare to say that a lot of the “imbalances” and glitches make this game more fun.

I will say though, that for every good “mistake” (rage run glitch, warthogs very strong, etc) there is a bad “mistake” (maps not symmetrical, glitchy AI, etc).

If there is ever a Halo Wars 2, I want the bad stuff to go, but I also don’t want Halo Wars to stop being an aggressive, exhilarating game just because people complain too much on the internet when they “get rushed” or blame what they lose to instead of why they lost (aka, themselves). If videogames were balanced solely off of what losing players said out of frustration, online gaming wouldn’t be fun for anyone!

I want Halo Wars 2 to keep Warthogs, Covie leaders, etc to stay overpowered. Just make other things stronger and add more fun instead of just nerfing the things that make this game fun.

18

Interesting post. I think you make your conclusions way too early in your play time. Give it awhile because you judge. It is a lot more than you may think it is.

19

What can I say? In theory, your strategies work out, especially yours, Hitzel. But in the real game, it always fails.

No, my arbiter can’t beat three scorps (and they usually have Spartans in 'em). He can’t beat Wolves, the barrage is too damaging and they take too much beating for him to heal. Vehicle Depot > Arby.
Banshees are suicide units, just as their last upgrade implies. I can put pressure with them on ONE army of Scorps, true. But what then happens is the second UNSC coming up with Hogs = dead Banshees. If I withdraw, they storm my weak base. Second what happens is an army of Vampires (everyone expects Banshees from Arby) or three Wolverines rendering my Summits completely useless. It is NOT possible to stop all three enemies from reaching anti-air tier. And since Banshees are destroyed so easily, I lose my army in the blink of an eye. Hell, UNSC turrets alone crush them.
=/
And after that, what have I left? Shall I go for Hunters, knowing it takes time building them and the lose against Summits and lots of Scorpions/Hogs? Pump Vampires to reclaim air, but knowing they lose to UNSC Vehicles? Stick with Banshees, try to hit&run bases, praying the enemy doesn’t target my base?

I don’t know what causes this, but no matter how I turn things around, I always lose. Even if I force the enemy to resign, it costs me like 15 Banshees, and my UNSC buddy rolling in with three Spartanks gets the first place.
I’m experienced in strategy games, starting with AoE and SC, I’m a very good chess player and I think I’m not completely lacking brains. But for some unknown reason, this game just doesn’t work. Something is fishy here, I’m willing to bet on it.

20

I’ve been playing a few UA 3s game, as I’m fed up with 1s currently, and have been running mostly forge/anders but for the sake of this thread ran several games as covey. Playing as arby with a forge and cutter on my team, and double forge cutter on the enemy team I forced all three enemies to resign with virtually no assistance from my team. Granted the other team was complete garbage, but by taking both reactors, teching straight to sacrifice, and then triple pumping banshees short of a covey going all vamps or every UNSC mixing in a fair number of tech 4 wolvies you aren’t stopping that.

You keep stating that you cannot keep all three players off anti-air, just out of curiosity how many summits do you normally build? Do you normally double base and if so how early? Do you take available bonus reactors? Also while your arby is useful he is not a one-man army. It sounds like you’re engaging tanks with nothing but your arby, which with good rage micro against stock or even canny tanks is possible, it’s usually not successful. Since against tanks your arby needs to have support, he’s often not that useful in UA 3s as you often can’t count on your teammates to be worth anything.